Heres the back story. 1986 JD 444c that sat for ~10 years. The exhaust rotted off and rain water went straight down the manifold into cylinders #3 and #4. Had to replace a lot on the machine to even get it running but now that it does it lacks power and smokes like hell from cylinders 3 and 4. The smoke smells like unburned diesel. My thought is the water from over the years messed up the exhaust valves on those two cylinders so the valves arnt sitting on the seats correctly thus causing the smoke and lack of power. The machine isnt making me money (its just a project for me to tinker around with) so i cant justify a new engine, and i wouldn't say i have the experience or knowledge to pull the head and replace the valves (if thats even the issue). Attached is a video let me know what you think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ-UCUyQSNU I do have a compression tester in the mail but im pretty sure i know what it will tell me. Low compression in cylinders 3 and 4. There is zero smoke coming from 1,2,5,6 and if you take off the oil filler cap there is zero blow by.
Rings stuck more likely. I've heard many solutions, best one I know is to pull it down and re-ring it. How does it start?
I considered the rings being stuck but i figured that would lead to oil consumption and blowby. The smoke coming out smells like diesel, not burnt oil. It starts right up with no issues. I had it started yesterday when it was 20 degrees out. It wasnt happy but it started with ~5 seconds of cranking. When its above freezing it will start in 1-2 seconds.
Stuck injectors could be possible. If they are pintle-type.
NO such thing as zero blowby. Did you check the tube? it usually comes down from the valve cover and is open at the bottom of the engine. When you do the compression check, take those two, or all of the injectors to get tested, or just buy new ones. At least check the price. Aftermarket may be close to the price of having them checked. Label them when they come off so you know where they came from.
The injectors are all brand-new. I even swapped some of them around in the smoking stayed with the cylinder not the injector. Maybe not zero blow by but it wasn't very noticeable at all.
Looks like that #4 cylinder is doing a fire breathing trick, I'd suspect a bad valve there. But you mentioned that the exhaust smoke smelled like unburned diesel so I'd first check the injection timing, as that could cause that late firing. It would explain the loss of power too. What work have you done to the engine so far? Looks like the injection pump has been worked on at some point.
How many hours have you run it since getting it running and how hard are you working it? You can get a lot of smoke from a wee bit of ring blow by. It takes a huge amount of blow by to use a lot of oil. Does it change at all between a cold engine and working at operating temperature. My experience in having worked on old stuck machines a fair amount has shown stuck rings to be problematic more often than anything else. Normally if it a valve issue it is because of a bent stem from being pulled around when stuck, not rusted enough to leak, and then the valve is usually stuck open. If the valves look good when you have the head off I would pull them two pistons and look at them. Not sure if you can pull them in your machine or not? Best of luck to you and keep us posted. After looking at the video it may have a bent valve on the "firing" cylinder.
Make sure you do a dry AND wet compression test. Do you know what range tester you're waiting for? Also, are you going to borrow an adapter to put in the injector hole, or is one coming with the tester? I'm asking these questions because testing compression on a diesel engine is not quite a walk in the park like a gasser. Pressures are considerably higher. Good luck.
Thank you for the comments so far. This forum has already helped me diagnose many issues so far. I couldn't have dont it without you guys. Its been run about 2 hours, but not for very long at a time. Its only around my property. Ive tried getting it to operating temp but its been in the 30's here and its staying just below operating temp. I will be using it to remove some trees for a friend in a week or 2 (hopefully) so it will get a workout then. It has a new starter, new injectors, and a newly rebuilt injection pump. The pump is keyed and then theres a few degrees you can rotate it in either direction for fine timing. I did the best i could. I adjusted the pump to where it idled the best. Cylinders 1,2,5,6 dont smoke so im guessing the timing is close. Ive been reading the service manual. It do the compression test and i believe they want to see 300PSI but i will look it up again before i do it. The manual states if the compression is low add 1oz of oil and do the test again. If the oil fixes the compression issue youve got a piston ring issue. If the compression isnt fixed by the oil youve got a valve issue. I bought this adaptor (i should have it by monday or tuesday): http://www.autotoolworld.com/S-G-To...mpression-Test-Adapter--Case-**_p_166633.html The gauge i have is an old one my dad had from his trucking business. The gauge goes to 400psi. If it doesn't work ill head to the auto parts store and get a new gauge
Are you sure that's the right adapter? The link is to one for 188 and 207 Case engines
Sounds good. One thing that will make it easier. Pull all the injectors before starting the test. Since you have to pull them anyway, it'll go faster and the engine will spin faster.
Pulling the head and taking a look is a real simple job. I really think the valves are the problem, but your compression tester will show that. I would skip that step and have a peek. What engine is that? Looks like it's a 329... http://www.agkits.com/john-deere-32...52-cylinder-head-gasket-set.aspx#.VprRkk-aS3k
Now that you mention it im having second guesses about it. I had googled john deere pencil injector compression tester and i believe thats the one that came up. If it isnt the correct one i guess i will have to send it back and get the correct one Makes sense, will do. Its a 6059. I would love to pull the head but ive never pulled the head on any engine besides a dirt bike. Looking at the service manuals it looks like you need to get at the front of the engine to get to the gears to pull the cam out. To get to the front of the engine i need to pull the entire hood off the loader and pull the radiator. Not a small project. However seeing as this is a learning project for me i guess it would be a good opportunity if the compression comes back low
No need to get into the gear train to do a valve job, but I just assumed that you'd be doing the work. Here's one being done on a 4 cylinder... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eFsmHZQfME Poor rings won't make #4 "fire" like that. I stand to be corrected. Did they park it for 10 years for a mechanical issue?
Getting the head off looks way easier than what I had in mind. The machine used to be my fathers. He had health issues, then the starter died and no one could fix it. I was too young at the time and by the time I got an interest in it, it had been sitting for 10 years. The muffler rusted off and made a funnel for water to run right into the 2 cylinders that are having issues. I started it again this morning (the first time I've started it cold with the manifold off). Cylinder 4 was still "firing like it was in the video. Cylinder 3 (the one that's smoking) was slobbering out oil. So my best guess is 4 has a valve issue, and 3 has a piston ring issue. When it heats up it smokes a little less and not as much oil is visible. My guess is the rings start to seat a little when it warms up. So my plan is do the compression test and see where that leads me. If it points to what I think (ring issues with #3 and valve issues with #4) then I may pull the head and fix the valve issue. Put it back together, soak it with lots of mystery oil, and try and run it as much as possible to get the rings to free up in cylinder 3.
If you can get at the bottom end of the motor, then it's not that much harder to pull the pan off and take out one or two pistons if the difference in the dry and oiled compression tests indicate that.
I'm with Delmer, but I can see where you might roll the dice and win...just depends on how badly it was stuck after sitting.
Underneath the engine sits the fuel tank and underneath that there is 1/4" plate steel skid plate. So the only way to get to the bottom end is pulling the engine. I think after the compression test i will pull the head if the test shows low compression. Ill do the valves and put it back together and see what happens then. Hopefully if there is any stuck rings i can free them up with a combination of mystery oil and running it.
Anyone have an idea what the part number would be for an exhaust valve? The engine is a 6059DF. Not the engine that came with the machine so it makes looking up parts on John deere's website difficult.
Looks like they're all the same. I just typed in 6059DF in JDPartsOnline: