So what do you guys think.I have found a '89 f-800.100 thou,air brakes,good tires,5 sp,ford 6 cyl dsl $8500? My wife is not helping with input at all! What do you think?
I think you'd be better off spending the money on your wife!....... If it had the gas engine I might think different, but 89 is getting a bit long in the tooth. Good reusable body parts very hard to find. Lucky to find one with air brakes tho, hydraulic brake systems were a mess. Ford diesel is good boat anchor. Good luck, you'll need it.
I'd keep looking. There's gotta be someone willing to let go of an older Kenworth in the $12K range in Chelan or Wenatchee. What kind of GVW are you looking for and what's the purpose for the truck? You may be able to find an International with a reasonably short flatbed fruit hauler for cheap as everyone is still losing money farming. Depends on your need for the truck though, but a flatbed truck could be convereted to a dump super easy. The Ford diesels aren't terrible, but they aren't the best in the medium duty size. I'd opt for an Interntional with a DT466, except if you're pulling Tunnel Hill you'll be getting honked at and flipped off all the way up, you know what I'm talking about.
x2. I've had great luck with IH trucks and DT diesels.
A 1989 F800 should have a 7.8 liter Ford diesel in it and at 100,000 miles it should be just getting broke in, if it's been taken care of. I have one that had just under a million hiway miles on it before it was replaced and my current service truck is an L8000 with the same motor and it has just under 500,000 miles on it with literally no work done to it.I currently have 3 Fords with this motor and they have been excellent. The F Series cab is the same as a pickup except 6-8 inches wider so doors ect will interchange. What are you going to be doing with it? Many F800s were set at 185 HP and no aftercooler. That with a 5 speed trans could be a little weak but the 7.8 has plenty torque. They will outlug a DT466 anyday. The 7.8s can be turned up to 270HP but you would need to install an aftercooler for that. Like anything else, it depends on what you want to use it for, how much money you want to spend, and what you like.
You think a 7.8L Ford can outlug a DT466 @ 275/800 or 300/860?? I think not. Most 7.8L "Brazilian" Fords were less than 600/TQ. I'll give you about 1/4L more displacement, but there's no way even a 270HP 7.8L is gonna "outlug" a comparable size, legendary diesel like a DT466 with much more available HP & torque. Mine's got the 250/660 set-up and outperforms my friends 7.8L brazilian Ford, but his is only 240HP. The other thing you have to watch is they went out of production in ~'94. Parts are getting scarce. DT466 is still in production with plentiful and cheap parts. The 7.8L is also very limited in how much fuel you can add before you window the block. I'm going to truck pulls and seeing guys with DT 466's pumped up to over 1,500 dyno proven HP.
I'm pretty sure we're talking about real life use in work trucks here. The Ford diesel was used in farm tractors for a good number of years before it was engineered for truck use. I've never heard anything bad about them, in fact just the opposite from guys who own them. I'll grant that they aren't as popular as the 466, and perhaps not as powerful, but they are a viable truck engine none the less. They certainly are a better engine than the 3208 Cat that they replaced!
Real life or modded, I'll take a DT466 anytime over a 7.8L Ford. They only replaced the 3208 CAT with the 7.8L in Ford applications because Ford finally decided to sell their own M/D diesel and it's only logical that CAT got the boot. The 3208 went on in other brands for years after the 7.8L was discontinued. I don't think the 7.8L was better that the CAT 3208. At 10.4L, the 3208 had a lot more (25-30%) rotating mass than a 7.8L Ford. The 3208 was actually a damn good marine diesel capable of 375HP and was used in tens of thousands of pieces of farm & industrial machinery. No doubt the DT466 with its' 35 year reign in the diesel industry is the grandaddy of all M/D diesels. This 8.3L Cummins ISC might be the only thing that can touch it.
The 7.8 isn't a too terrible engine but its not the best engine. The 6.6 was the turd mobile it had absolutely no power. I remember somebody telling me that the 7.8s have camshaft problems. I personally wouldn't buy a F series medium duty I would rather have a Louisville Cab. You have far better vision its a more comfortable truck to drive and easier to work on the engine. The trucks with hydraulic brakes came with a Lucas Girling set up they are horrible and very expensive. As for a 7.8 out pulling a 466 mechanical thats hard to tell which one would out pull a 466E would out pull a 7.8. Keep in mind both are small engines. I guess I got spoiled a little driving single axle dumps with M-11 Cummins power which is what you need for a single axle grossing 35,000lbs.
back in the late 80's early 90's, I had an F-700 with a 180HP 6.6L Ford NH diesel and an allison auto. What a slug. There's a guy on another site that has a 6.6L Ford/NH in a tandem! The other nasty thing about the Ford brake set-ups is that electric parking brake. It costs over $1,000 to replace it when it goes bad.
Thats the Lucas Girling brakes they were similar to air powered Wedge brakes but they used hydraulic pressure. I talked with one of my mechanic buddies he has been pulling wrenches for 30 years or more. Talking about trucks I was giving him a razz if he ever worked on the Fords with LG brakes. He said Chev/GMC used the same braking system. If you want a medium duty 3 or 5 ton it should be on air I wouldn't fool around with juice brakes unless it was 4 wheel disk brakes (juice) like some trucks had. Air brakes are the best you know your going to stop. Back in the early 80s juice brakes,5+2 gearing and gas pot power was common. Then Ford and Chevy came out with diesel 3 and 5 ton trucks with 3208 Cat power then Chevy went with the 8.2 Fuel Pincher boat anchor. Then Ford came out with the 6.6 turdola and the 7.8 then later on years the 5.9 and 8.3 came into the picture. The 5.9 Cummins is out of its legue in the 5 ton trucks but many of them were used. The 8.3 doesn't seem to be as common but a far better engine. The 3116 Cat was used quite abit in Chevy and Ford used them too then the 3126 came out. International really is the only truck manufacture that stuck with a reliable engine 466. They did have the DT360 not very good and they had the 6.9 IDI as a engine option. The 466 is a venerable old engine sort of like a old 6/71 detroit run for ever and cheap to rebuild.
The Ford/NH 6.6L & 7.8L were offered at the same time, but the 7.8L went another couple years after the 6.6 was dropped. It's interesting to note that the F-700/800 were also available with GM 8.2L "fuel pincher" diesesl and allison transmissions for years in the mid 80's. I never got over why Ford would basically sell an F700/800 with a GM drivetrain in it and thought it was bad for Ford's reputation. They sold many thousands of them like that. I would think the 2 best type of Ford F or L mediums would be a 3208 CAT with a turbo @250HP if it was an early 80's model. Let's face it, you can't argue that 10.4L with a turbo can do some work. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987...9QQihZ006QQcategoryZ63734QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem If you bought one in the early-mid 90's, I'd look for a 8.3L Cummins @250+ HP rather than a 5.9L Cummins ISB or either the 6.6L or 7.8L Ford diesels. With more displacement, the 8.3L can also be turned-up for more fuel without issues, too. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD...8QQihZ001QQcategoryZ63739QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Tough to find, but they're out there.
The old 3208s are hard to get parts for or repairing them. The biggest problem with the 3208s is the injection system. The old 3208s have a distinct sound to them and the exhaust smell is the same.
Here's a 3208 doing some heavy work: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1984...5QQihZ005QQcategoryZ63743QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
3208's and it's predacessor, the 1160 as long as I can remember, has been and always will be, a fantastic BOAT ANCHOR. :IMO
I'm not saying they were a great motor, but for what was offered in the mid 80's in an F-800, the 3208 was the best engine choice, wasn't it? :beatsme I mean it's better than a 8.2L "fuel pincher", a 429 or a 370 gasser, right? In the mid 90's, the best engine choice in an F-800 would be an 8.3L cummins. IMO. better than a 5.9L Cummins or the gas engines or the 7.8L/6.6L new Holland diesels, too. I'd love to have an N-14 or a 3408 in a F-800, but it ain't gonna happen.
I was told in the last years of the 3208 some of them had replaceable liners. The 3208 was used quite abit in boats but they were pushing 400hp a litte much in my mind. As I mentioned a few times I wouldn't buy a F-800 it would be a L-8000 with a L-10 Cummins a far better single axle dump truck. You have lots of power and the L-10s came with Jakes so that helped in the braking.
Too bad you couldn't find a good running (or rebuildable,) 534 Ford gasser. I worked for a guy a hundred years ago that had a 1971 Brockway 10 wheeler and a 1969 Ford Super Duty 10 wheeler with this big mill in it, and a 5 X 4 transmission. That 534 gas job used to clean that Detroit diesel's clock in terms of pulling power. Those things were pretty rugged. Only downfall was, you needed to carry a 275 gallon oil tank on top of the cab to feed the 'ol gal.
Had a company in the area that had a old Ford tandem axle crane truck with 534 gas power it used to burn a tanker of fuel. Also had a boat mover with a LN800 the truck was powered with 534. Don't see many of them around nowwadays espcially with gas at 4.67 a gallon
That's the only thing with those old 534's, they weren't exactly a jewel on fuel...Had a wicked bore and stroke though...
But you can't get a 534 gas in an F-800. Best available motor in a 80's F-800 is a CAT 3208 @ 250HP. Best available motor in a 90's F-800 is a Cummins 8.3L ISC @ 250HP. Best available motor in a 00's F-750 would be a 275 or 300 HP CAT C-7. I guess. :beatsme I don't think you can get ISC power in a Ford anymore.
Evening, gentlemen. I just closed a deal today on an F-800 5+2 w/ a 7.8 and air brakes, and cold A/C with 89,000 miles on it. I know a good bit about hotrodding the 5.9 cummins, but this 7.8 is a new animal to me. From what I've read on this post, there's not much love for this engine. What can it stand, and what will blow it up? This truck is going to replace my dodge that I keep tearing up. (first a rear end, then the tranny) So, I need it to be cross country reliable, but I want it to not be a pooch. Any advice?
I know in the 07 Ford 750 has a Cummins option. The reason why I know this is because I was searching the manual on our 07 F750 water truck today, which has a Cat, for the cruise control fuse and the manual had a section on the Cummins engine. Unfortunately the manual didn't have a diagram for the cruise control fuse - which sucks because you can't idle the truck up to use the hand hose.:Banghead
Hey CM, our water truck, here at the quarry, was converted from a scraper. It came with the "brick or big rock" option.....if'n ya know what I mean. That sucks about the cruise control. A real pain when you gotta use 2 guys instead of one, all because of a missing fuse outlet. I was gonna end my post there but.... So the cruise control (if equipped) works with the truck in neutral or park? Would this also hold true to smaller trucks...say a Nissan Frontier for instance . I can think of atleast one instance where that would come in handy. High amperage accessories are coming to mind......
The 7.8 really doesn't have a good reputation but there are still quite afew old Fords still running around with them. The 5.9 Cummins is out of its legue anything larger than a Dodge. You will be happy to have the bigger engine. Couple the 7.8 with a 8-9 spd Roadranger they pull fairly well. The 5+2 gearing not the best not that strong and not as easy to shift as a 8spd. Thank god the truck is on full air the juice brakes on the old F-Series medium duty Fords is a nightmare.
From what I've seen, No. The smaller stuff doesn't allow for the cruise to be used for Idle-up. Now the minute I say that, I'll be proven wrong.
ISC power = 8.3L Cummins ISB power = 5.9L Cummins You can't get 8.3L ISC power anymore, but you can get the new 6.7L Cummins that replaced the 5.9L Cummins.:Banghead Clear as mud? ointhead
Sounds like a nice truck. It can't stand very much. Weird bird-the pump is on the passenger side. Everyone I know who tweaked a 7.8L eventually burned a piston. Probaby the best place to start is with the pump for a mild tweak. Might be able to get 20HP without spending anything.
Yeah- got 2 guys on the truck today instead of one. Does the "brick or big rock" idea count if one of them is dumb as a .... naw just kidding. Most of the single axle size trucks and up have this kind of idle control Throw it neutral, set the park brake and idle up high as you want. I do know that the newer F250's and up have an auxillary idle countrol option from the factory. I am sure there are aftermarket idle devices out there for your high amperage needs - let's keep it legal
Congrats on the truck purchase. We have an 1988 F-800 with the 7.8 and have had no problems with it. The truck does a good job pulling our New Holland 655e. I only wish our F-800 had air (both for the brakes and the driver)! Good luck with your F-800.
You can do the fuel screw for free, as Duke suggested. Since you know the Dodge stuff, try an HX40 or 50 on it. There's gotta be some place to get hi- flow injectors.
My first mods are probably gonna start with a charge air cooler,(intercooler) and maybe propane injection. I'm going to concentrate on power mods that increase reliability. Before I do anything like cranking the bump, I'm going to set it up with a pyrometer, and a boost guage. Once I can monitor temps and pressures, Then it's on!! Also, I'm looking for an RTO "6" series 13 or 15 speed.
Hi there- I'm a new member and this is my first post. (I as a newbie, I couldn't ask this question with a new thread, and this seemed like a good thread to ask it) I've just bought a Chevy Kodiak crane truck with a non-turbo Cat 3208. I read a little about this engine BEFORE I bought it, and read mixed reviews. Of course everything else I've read AFTER buying the truck leads me to conclude that it's not well-loved, to put it nicely. My question is... does anyone know how possible it would be to drop in a DT466? I've always liked Internationals, and that seems to be a well-respected engine. What would I need to get the job done? Thanks a lot, Christian
Welcome to HEF robox! :drinkup Is there anything wrong with the engine in your truck now?
Ho! Ho! Ho! Jack up the radiator cap from the Chev, and drive an International truck that already has the 466 engine under it. Easiest and happiest way to perform this engine transfer. Good Luck! ps: Keep the 3208 for use as a boat anchor. Best use I've ever heard of for them.
Not really.... just under-powered, leaks oil, and has 200K on the clock. A little more power would be nice. Christian
If it really has 200k and you keep running it, do yourself a big favor, pull the pan and change the bearings. Only diesel I've seen where the factory recommends changing rod bearings at "half life". If you dig around in the service manual you'll find "half life" is considered to be 75,000 miles. After owning three of those things, 200,000 miles seems like a wild fantasy.
You see, it's statements like this that make me want to consider transplanting something more reliable into it. And I don't have the money to buy another truck... it has been a big leap for me to buy this one. Is anyone aware of another decent diesel that might swap in there relatively easily? Just engine mounts and a bellhousing? Thanks, Christian
A DT466 will not just bolt in. There'll be a lot of ancillary systems, wiring & lines to deal with radiator, shroud, etc. The best thing to do is get a turboed 3208 with a higher power output and it will drop in easily.
The much maligned 3208 is pretty much a victim of circumstance. At origin it was less than 160 Hp....and over the years it got cranked and cranked and cranked some more....resulting in the boat anchor theory. A mate of mine has a Ford L8000 dump truck with 3208/Allsion Auto. That truck has 160,000 miles without a problem. The 3208 needs air, clean and cool. If the air intake is not good they will run hot. They need more regular oil changes, no more than 5000 miles. Then they need a driver content to run an engine which is underpowered for many of the applications it was placed in......otherwise its a boat anchor
The thing that always blew me away about the 3208 was with 10 + LITRES of displacement , how could an engine with that kind of rotating mass be so weak?
The truth is that I have not even picked this truck up yet. I've read ALMOST nothing good about the darned engine, but I guess at this point I'm just going to have to keep my fingers crossed and hope that I'm getting one of the few 3208s that has been well-maintained and is not about to croak. My thinking now is that if I'm unlucky, and I get a more typical engine, which is to say a smoky geriatric one, then I'll either try to get my hands on a slightly newer 3208 turbo for an easy transplant, or maybe get lucky with a DT466 or 8.3L Cummins with trans attached. I guess I'll have to wait and see what I got. I pick up the truck next week. Christian
i have a 90 f800 I'm parting out with a 7.8 270 hp Brazil ford engine I'm parting out as well. Contact me if you are needing any parts.
Holly old thread batman...