Has anybody been around a Fiat-Allis 31 much? Buddy of mine just got one and is trying it out before he might buy it.Already has a D9H and a TD25E.I told him the D9H is the best out of all of them.Whats the scoop on the 31.
Allis 31 Not sure about durability but the Allis dozers are usually pretty tough. As far as productivity the allis will beat up the other two. With the d9 likely in last spot. Our 25c's would put the hurt on a 9g fairly easy. :beatsme
Parts can be an issue (availability) Mike
Have a look here: http://www.vannattabros.com/dozer1.html he gives a really great narrative about the machine!
Steve K have you ever ran a D9G or an H to make sure of this fact? I have ran the 25C's the E's and a G and the G would have been the closest to the 9G but still wasn't equal.The guy who owns this 25E and the D9h has ran 25's all his life and is starting to see that a cat dozer is not such a bad thing.A D9H forsure. A 25 might be faster and eaiser to get around but when it comes to all and all out pushin you can't beat a 9.
chum duffy who post here occasionally has or has had several, he would be well qualified to answer you.
Worked for a company that had HD21's and HD 11's they would outwork and use less fuel than a comparable Cat or IH/Dresser. Seemed more bullet proof than the others as to repair needs but today that is a moot point. Parts are becoming scarce, no one making rails, shoes, nothing for rollers and so on. Many that see the machines still have a lot of life left convert to Cat rails to keep them moving but is an arduous task. Lot of soft parts are simply no longer available. Would love to see a after market begin to refit these old beasts if not start building them again. But I am biased in that I started as a mechanic in the 70's when these machines were coming to their best.
Iuoe Man I have run the d9g and the h and I still currently own the td 25c,25g and 25m!While cat always seem to make claims how hearty their dozers are more often than not they do not run as good as claimed.While the d9g is a hearty dozer, in every instance i have seen they are no match for td 25's.The Td 25 was originally built as a TD30 but early teething problems had them detune tractor to its state now(25c-25m) and if had been developed as a 30 would have been direct competition to 9.We have run the Td 25's against its so called competition the 8 size tractor and that is zero competition.The Allis tractors I have seen are at the top of class and as far as production usually leave the competition scrambling!I have had three allis tractors and from what Ive seen with these they were well ahead of anyone in their respective class.The companies I know that ran the 31's said the performance was well above anything they had expected!And had Allis been still in Buisness here they would still be running them!FWIW the FD30 was still available in Europe under the New Holland line as of two years ago! Steve
Thanks Steve for the info. Just can't see how a 25 can outdo a D9 that out weights it and has alot more power and TQ.Just me sayin.I know I wouldn't want to put them to blade to blade. O well to each his own. Im still a Cat man till the end.LOL He only paid like 20,000 for the 31 and got a great deal on the 9H at 16,500. That 31 has some super wide tracks on it.Bet there 30-36 inches.
The 25 is a bit of a over achiever, it seems to be perfectly balanced and stays perfectly flat while pushing and ripping. The 9 g we had working with 4 25's on one job all had angle blades. The clay was a hard pan material and the 25 seemed to be able to cut through it easier. The second 9g we had was a ex plow cat that had been opened up quite abit.it had semi u blade and was no slouch. The current g& m tractors we have now are semi u ! The 9's are like you mention are slow moving and a little clumsy so they have a tough time keeping ahead. That's why the new series 9 had to be beefed up.
The 25 is a bit of a over achiever, it seems to be perfectly balanced and stays perfectly flat while pushing and ripping. The 9 g we had working with 4 25's on one job all had angle blades. The clay was a hard pan material and the 25 seemed to be able to cut through it easier. The second 9g we had was a ex plow cat that had been opened up quite abit.it had semi u blade and was no slouch. The current g& m tractors we have now are semi u ! The 9's are like you mention are slow moving and a little clumsy so they have a tough time keeping ahead. That's why the new series 9 had to be beefed up. If your freind needs parts for 31 call jerry at crane&tractor in Columbus Ohio. Jerry just bought 6 31's for parts.
Yair . . . Someone mentioned HD21's. In my experience (in the scrub) the last of the two speed stick shift oil assend/torque converter tractors were pretty good. They would work rings around anything comparable at the time and hung together fairly well. It was all down-hill from there. The outfit I worked for had the first power shifts in Australia and they were rotten miserable tractors. Their only redeeming feature being they were nice to run with good performance . . . the only problem was they didn't run very much. Every part on the rotten things was a failure from the useless Farr-Pamic air cleaner to seal rings on clutches. The basic design of the clutch before the TC and the two speed transmission was good but poorly executed and they bloody nearly broke us . . . snap rings on gudgeons, broken camshafts, rods through blocks, clutch failures, transmission failures, broken cross-shafts, chewed out pinions, top pinions on final-drives. You name it, the bastards broke it . . . often. We got very good at repairs and major modifications. Allis Chalmers were little help and it was all done on our dime. The thing is though the darn things got under your skin. Even now, after half a life time, on a cold and frosty morning I some times fancy I can hear the snap and crash of falling scrub the throbbing harmonic of those engines working in the distance . . . . . Cheers.
Thanks for the parts info.My uncle just put a different D353 in his D9H instead of the normal 410FWHP the new engine dynoed by Cat produced 456FWHP.They said you sure can tell a difference. That Fiat 31 is a pretty nice dozer.It has like new undercarrage and rebuilt engine by Cummins themselves.Ive been told the FD40 is beefed up alittle more on the final drives and uses a K19.
Steve,check out the 31 that is forsale on Machinery Trade. Thats the one my friend has.It's listed as a HD31B don't know why he listed it as a (B)? Check it out.
That's a clean looking tractor. That undercarriage is a double bonus, as it's worth nearly worth the asking price. Not sure why he is saying a b? Run serial no. By Jerry and crane at tractor. I talked to jerry today he says those tractors weigh in at around 125,000lbs. Pretty hefty.
I too think that the undercarriage is worth what he's asking for it.I heard it has the same undercarriage as a 41 but short one roller on each side.I guess thats why it looks meaty.I know the counterweights are pretty dog gone thick on the back.The ripper was at the auction also and it was prety good size.Way bigger than the one for the D9's they had there also.I guess the 31 is in a size class all to it's own.Bigger than a 9 and a 355 Komatsu but smaller than a TD40 or a D10 or a 455 Komatsu,and of course a 41.I know Ive never seen such wide pads on that size dozer before,they really are something. Talk to ya later.
I think I read somewhere that the 31 has the same undercarriage, final drives, pinion, etc as the 41. As a result, the 31's were pretty indestructable. Andrew
I have to admit I was never a allis fan to start. We always had cat then started to buy the older 65 komatsu's then for our big dozers found a low buck 25 c and ended up with 6 of them.i was looking for a td20 when I found my first Fd255 allis,after racking up 12,000 hrs on these allis I would have to say they have been some of the best dozers I've owned! Just plain tough! I use to walk right by them at the sales headed to the other brands! Not anymore, I certainly wish they still were sold here! The case 1650&1850 are the only new allis tractors you can still buy herei have a 1650 and while it has good production it's had a few issues with 5.9 cummins? I like the Iveco engines in the allis better! I buy all my parts in our local new holland Ag store, I have parts books give them the numbers and they get them in. What they can't the case construction can.Jerry at crane and tractor can get almost anything for allis and he knows all the old allis mechanics and reps across the states so he is a big help! Hell of a good guy to!
Boy that is a nice looking 31 IUOE Man www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9715969 Thanks for posting the information about crane and tractor steve.k We still run a 16-B and have got parts from www.minnpar.com in the past . Always good to find another parts outlet www.craneandtractor.com The Vannattabros site is pretty interesting. http://www.vannattabros.com/iron24.html