Warning this is long and not even that interesting or important! This is not really a post that should be in "Heavy Equipment Forum" even in the Genset section as it just a little Generac 10000EXL. But as I'm retired and I'm usually posting over in the off-highway section with information about old Euclids or Cat front end loaders figured I post something that is giving me some problems just for fun. Not sure why as we had about the nicest day in months no bad wind or ice storms the power went out around 3:00pm. That does not happen here too often but when I called the electric company they said 2 1/2 hours or more. Well I decided to see if the generator that came with my second wife about 19 years ago, not a bad two for one huh?, well had to see if it would work. I had had it running a bit last summer and even put in a good used battery along with fresh oil and filter. Well of course battery was not up to cranking it over at 30º so jumper-ed it off the Rav4. Cranked but not fire. Well for lack of anything else to try I looked in the gas tank, looked great other than being dry as a bone! Dumped in two gallons of fuel and surprise it started just fine! Amazing what a little fuel will do for an engine! Plugged my cable in after throwing the disconnect switch by the meter, no sense in electrocuting any of the guys trying to fix the power grid. Seemed to be working fine lights and everything came on like it should. Ran fine for close to an hour then lost power but genset was still running. Went out and noticed the breaker on genset had tripped. Not too surprised as the only cord I had to hook it up only fit the 30 outlet on the genset and ours is an all electric house and I had just washed my hands using hot water and probably also triggered the well pump to come on! Turned off a bit of the electric heat in the house and fired it right up and we were back in business. Then when I checked with power company a bit after 5:00pm they now said 8:00pm! No problem I have my own power, or so I thought! A few minutes latter lost power again but this time genset was not running! First thought is it was out of fuel and I dumped a couple more gallons in but also notice that there was still fuel in the tank. So now I wonder could this thing have a low oil level switch like some Honda Gensets I have been around. Just to be safe checked oil level and it was right at the full line on the stick. Well I hit the start button and it fired right up. I'm good to go again! Not so soon a couple minutes later same thing it shuts off like someone hit the keyswitch. Gave it a quick look over again and found nothing and again it fired right up. Now I start poking at wires and such to see if anything killed it but no luck. Again it would run for a couple minutes and shut off. Decided I would let it go for now and dig out the manuals and see what safety devices it has that might be causing this problem. Push it in garage and turn main switch back on before going into the house to read manual. Well guess what now power is back on! Looking in schematics and the only thing this one has for safety shut down is low oil pressure switch, not low oil level. Did a quick Google check and actually found a result of someone with the exact model genset who had the same problem and the guy who answered his question mentioned that the pressure switch part number had been changed. I'm wondering if it was because of just this problem. So now the plan is to try running it some more and see if it has good oil pressure and then try again with the pressure switch installed if it goes to ground or open when engine quits!
I don't usually work on portables but if you get stuck, add to this thread. I am sure you have the skills to figure it out. If you are looking at a manual give us the manual part number (0Kxxxx) and page number so I can find what you are looking at.
Just another experience. Had a Generac 4000xl genset that ran until it wouldn't. The problem was a loose mounting of the coil. It let the gap get too large to fire the plug. Gapped the coil against the flywheel with a shim and secured it …. fixed.
Old red frame with a twin Briggs engine? Ohm the oil pressure switch, but usually you can unplug them on the portables to bypass and keep it running (if there's oil in it, it'll be fine). Down the line, pull the bowl off of the carb and look for yellow ethanol dust if the old fuel evaporated. If there's any sign of it, you'll need to give the carb a good cleaning. I might have the service manual for that unit, I'll just need to dig through my laptop.
It says Generac every where but there is a Briggs logo on the muffler! Twin cylinder overhead valve engine. Well I did "ohm" the oil pressure switch and with engine off shows closed then with engine running it shows open. Ran it with ohm meter hooked up for close to two hours and never went to closed. Then removed sender and hooked up pressure gauge and ran about half an hour checking pressure and it held nice and steady at 35 psi. Did not have any way to put a real load on the engine short of killing power to the house and wife is doing stuff and would not like power going off! Sure would be handy to have a load bank to hook up and make it really work! Did have an electric heater connected but a 1,500 watt heater doesn't hardly phase a generator rated at 10,000 watts continuous power!
Like I said 2/2/19 could not get this one to repeat the "failure/shut-down" problem so decided to open up the carb and have a look. Not the worst looking float bowl I had seen but down in the bottom there was a little black and tar like goop. So I cleaned it out good and reassembled. Still starts right up and sounds good, but then it did that the day it was quitting on me. Not going to call this one fixed but at least I know a bit more about it if the problem shows it's head in future. Most important thing might be knowing that if the oil pressure switch does fail all I need to do is disconnect one wire. Also know that if the pressure switch does go to ground there is no time delay, as soon as you ground the wire engine stops!
The 4K genset I had in my old motorhome (3K run, 4K surge) would just flat die if it was overloaded. My other half did not realize that the microwave, coffee maker and a 1000 watt electric heater would not play well together, plus the charger load and a few other 120v odds and ends.
I have heard of people making a redneck load bank out of craigslist electric ranges, you can even vary the load with the top elements. Just a thought. Did not have any way to put a real load on the engine short of killing power to the house and wife is doing stuff and would not like power going off! Sure would be handy to have a load bank to hook up and make it really work! Did have an electric heater connected but a 1,500 watt heater doesn't hardly phase a generator rated at 10,000 watts continuous power![/QUOTE]
Drive around the neighborhood and pick up some discarded electric ovens on trash day. Or if you have a small budget, $30 gets you two 5kw elements in a hot water heater rebuild kit from the box store, add into a water tank and weld on a couple fittings. that'll give you 10k and hot water too.
Now that's an idea. Get an old 55 gallon drum and mount them in it and fill with water. But as I'm only dealing with this one genset and would only need to run the test once might not be worth the time and money to build a test "load bank" But I do have a good working used stove in the garage and the power cord that plugs into the genset just need to take the plug off one end and hook to the stove.
Sounds like an air cooled load bank. its also possible to jumper the door switch and run upper and lower elements at the same time. For my generators with the 50A 120/240v plugs, I've made an adapter to power the 50a welder and a 30A 120 v rv plug
Then plumb that 55 gals of hot water to your pressure washer and load test and wash the toys at the same time.
Or you could just do what I would do- shove it back in the shed, and deal with it next time the power goes out. I plan ahead for events like that, keeps life interesting. No need to fix it now, I'll need something to do in 4 years too. And if you fix the current problem, it will just have a different problem from sitting for 4 years, this way you at least know the first thing you will have to fix. You goofy mechanics and wanting everything right. Come over to the dark side, pretend your a operator, if it ain't broke- you ain't trying. In 4 years no one will even need electricity anymore, all the bad coal plants will be shut down and we'll live on solar power. The internal combustion engine will be relegated to the dust heap of history as a stinky waste of precious dino juice, that we should have just left down in the ground. We can all be hunter gatherers again....
a and we`ll all be drinkin that green bubble up an eatin that rainbow stew
thats a good idea
If we have to live with solar power, does than mean I get to stop working at dark?
maybe not ,i read some garbage last night claiming there will soon be an implant that will allow you to see in the dark, aoc says it`ll be free
Well if you go back to my first few words in this thread maybe I do now qualify as an "operator" Quote: Warning this is long and not even that interesting or important! Might need to get it working when weather warms up, if power goes out then the barley soda might get warm before I can drink it all. Not worried about that lite stuff the son-in-law drinks just the good stuff!
Leave it to a retired mechanic to still know operators- "not interesting or important"- you're the man
Yes but if it wasn't for "operators" we would have little work!
That depends, does someone that knows you, think you currently work? Cause all I do some days is sit in a cab and pull levers, and there are a lot of people who wouldn't classify that as work. And, well, some of us do our best work in the dark, but I don't need your personal information.
You got that right. If it wasn’t for operators our lives would be a piece of cake. All the latest bells & whistles and they still manage to break ****.
You all are making the best pitch for automation I've heard in a long time.
FWIW the information I have regarding autonomous mining trucks is they are not as maintenance-intensive as their human-operated counterparts. Accident damage and minor dings are zero. Not long ago we had a loaded truck reverse into another one that cost us a $120k cab, and that was just for starters.
Weakest link in any human operated machine is that loose nut behind the wheel.
And of course you guys jinxed me. The new to us Motorhome has a built in that worked fine a month ago. Checked it this afternoon and it runs perfectly for 15 seconds than quits. Probably a pressure switch thing. I'll get it going when I don't have to kneel in wet snow. I do still have the other gen from the old motorhome as a spare. But it's an outside model.
What kind of generator? what year? Onan low rpm one? could be a switch or a module, or the fuse is loose.
Kohler low speed. I have it handled... Got the manual and a multimeter. My post was more about the humor of coincidence.
I got a can of ether- I can come over and spray it at it for you. Isn't that the operator solution to every no run problem? Wait, I'll bring my big hammer too. That's my only other solution. If it can't be fixed with ether or a big hammer, well- its just broke then.
We are running now. Bad pressure switch wiring that controls the electric fuel pump. Some little rodent modified things for me. Funny you mentioned ether, my old gen had an auto start that cycled 3 times with an auto choke. Below 30 degrees the stupid thing would not start after 9 tries, I drilled a 1/16" hole in the air filter cover and give it a tiny sniff of ether and off it goes. So much for using the remote start.
Well to get back a bit more on the original topic. Finally had some time and a little ambition. So I wrestled the old electric stove out in the open and hooked it up with cord so I could plug it straight into the genset on the 220 outlet. I did look at the spec tag on stove and it shows 14KW which I'm assuming is the maximum load it should put on the system with all burners on High and oven and broiler turned on. As the genset is only rated at 10KW continuous I think I should be able to load it down pretty good. Genset does not have any gauges at all so I'm just guessing how much load I have on it at any time. Right now I have had it running with oven on but door open so thermostat doesn't turn it off and the two large top burners on high. My digital VOM does have a frequency scale and I checked it on house current and it reads right at 60 cycles. Well with the load I mentioned above the genset is floating between 59 and 60 cycles. If I turn on the two small burners along with the other loads the cycles drop down to 54/55. So I'm thinking that is a little over loaded at that point. The only thing that might be a bit off is the voltage. While running with the load that it keeps at 59/60 cycles the voltage at the 120 outlet is only 106 volts. I did not measure it with no load, probably should check that! OKay just checked with no load 120 volt outlet shows 126 volts and with just the oven on for a partial load the 120 volt outlet drops to 112/113 volts. I have had this genset running now for something over an hour under a good load and it has not quit yet so not sure why it did the other day when power was off at the house unless the bit of gunk in the bottom of the carb was somehow killing it. Thinking about getting some carb cleaner to run through it just to be sure I got all the gunk out! I think I mentioned above that I had it running with light load several days ago with an pressure gauge installed and it held right at 29/30 PSI. So any of you genset experts feel free to comment!
Power sounds good, 10kw should have a margin for overload where the 14kw should be total stove load not just the oven elements. Voltage should not drop below 110v, 120 is a closer figure but most homes will dance 114-124 just too hard to keep consistent. Cycles is the important aspect to keep from cooking 60 cycle motors and volts to keep from over amps loads. V x A =W
One thing to consider, is your meter reliable. Most DVOMs other than Fluke are pure garbage when it comes to reading frequency off a genset. All my Flukes have been spot on however. On a mechanical governor I prefer to adjust to 60.0 Hz at the maximum expected load of the house. So figure out what your house draws when on generator on the heavy side of normal. Then turn on enough burners to approximate this load. Then adjust the gov spring for 60.0. Then turn all the loads to nothing and it should not rise over 62.5 my personal preference. Make sure the oil is good and warm for this test. If it does rise over 62.5 then start playing around loaded/unloaded to split the difference. Really anything down to about 58 Hz should be fine but don't want to go much below that.
Mine is not a Fluke but like I said I did test it on the house current before trying on the generator just to give me a base line and on the house current it was right on 60 cycles. Wonder if I could adapt a Woodward Hydrulic UG-8 governor to the little two cylinder gas job to keep the rpms a bit closer? Those seemed to work fine on the D379, D398 and D399 Cat Generators we had at one time at work!
Likely to take more power to run the governor than the power plant.
The house power is a nice clean sine wave, almost 100% pure. Generator waveform will be any number of strange looking things. It doesn't really affect appliances that I have ever seen, but it will mess with a cheap meters frequency display. The only thing cheap I have seen read reliably besides a Fluke is a Kill-a-Watt. If you don't have one, they are useful for many things.
Well for now I'm thinking I can live with this generator as the power has only gone out for more than a couple hours here maybe three times in the last forty years! And I heat 90% with wood so I'm not going to freeze to death. One last problem I may need to address is the fuel cap, just as it was getting low on fuel it started to break-up. While it was still running I opened the cap to see how low the gas was. The second I opened it the engine started running good again. Plastic cap appears to have some kind of check valve in it. Don't see a way to get it apart. Generac parts book shows cap having a gauge in it which this one does not have and that one comes up as "obsolete". There is a brand name, forget it off top of my head, might see if I can source one direct from them. Worst case would be to drill small hole in cap. Unit is always stored inside and only outside if running.
if you can find ethanol free gas where you are it is better for plastics than the corn syrup
The cap should have a vent, since it's just a gravity feed through that tiny fuel line. Cap should be a standard size for generators, pressure washers, etc. Might want to see if any small engine shops still exist in your area and see if they have an old one with the fuel gauge sitting in the yard. Worst case, drill a small hole and just put some electrical tape over it when not in use.
I understand that very much. What I'm not sure of is why this cap has what sounds like a ball rattling around inside and on the inside there appears to be a yellow pin sticking in the hole on the inside. Even more odd is the fact you can blow in the hole on the underside and air will go through but if you try to suck air through it seems like there is no flow. Also the small hole on top side is nice and clean I just thought, maybe the cap off one of my snow blowers would fit this tank. If it does then I'll just order a new one from Briggs. Then I will dissect this cap and try to understand how it should work. Have to wonder if it is some kind of deal to prevent spillage during transport or fumes from venting during storage.
Likely has a restricting factor that has probably failed so it cannot over vent or spill.
Well I just went out and checked the caps off my Briggs engines on snowblowers and they tread on the tank just fine. So I got serious with the original cab on genset. Just as I thought there was a brass ball in the top and the little yellow tip I could see from the bottom vent hole was a spring loaded valve with a tail sticking up to where the ball was rattleing around. All I can figure is that that ball is suppose to hold the spring loaded valve off to one side. But if unit was tipped over the ball would move away from the valve and let spring close off the vent. I'm just going to buy a new cap like the snowblowers have and do my best to keep the genset sitting up right!