Tore this 7G down for a customer. Finally got to use the press and tooling I picked up! Customer says it's never leaked oil but he checked it the other day and it was low. 8 gallons later it was full and the book says it holds 9. Lol. And it leaked that out almost overnight. So he had me take it down to check it all out. I didn't find any major damage but the bull gear has obviously been rubbing on the outer case and there seems to be alot of wiggle in the reduction gear on its shaft. I also need to know the best procedure for reassembly! Lol.
I am no expert 02Dmax, but you seem to have done things a bit odd in your snaps? the rim pull tooling also is kit that I have not seem before? you did leave the rim nut on the hub (undone some) before you poked the beans into the rim? as soon as I pop the sprocket off its perch, I strip off the tooling then remove the hub nut and very carefully ease the sprocket off the hub taking care not to bash the hub thread section,the next thing I do is tape up these threads so no harm can happen. more later tctractors
Well I left the nut off because I was afraid if the sprocket came flying off it would hit that nut and mess up the threads. It came off without scratching a thing though. I was extra careful removing everything once it was loose though. So you're saying to just loosen the hub nut a bit to give the sprocket room to spring loose?
great pics.. keep them coming! what part of missouri are you in?
Northwest. I'm about an hour north of KC, right on the Missouri/Kansas/Nebraska line. I'll have some more pics later.
Yair . . . . 02Dmax Given those symptoms I think tctractors is going to be your best friend and given the nice house and ROPS and fuel tank jammed in there is going to be a bit more pulling apart before you have to worry about this . . . . All the best with it and I must say that Seven looks to be a lovely bit of kit. Cheers.
Dmax, it would seem you are lucky as you managed to not harm anyone or damage anything possibly?? I would recomend you study my bit of script in Shop Talk and please post or P.M.me if you are in any doubt on this style of work, firstly the adaptor that you have spun onto the dead shaft 2"x12 tpi needs to have a spacer washer/fitting behind it (this point is not clear in your pic) to load the hub against the back bearing and to make sure no loading from the cylinder goes directly into the dead shaft, think about it some and look at my snaps, you use the engine to unwind the sprocket hub nut forcing the bearing off until you can stuff the Horse Shoe spacer in front of the nut before you run out of thread, this fetches the bearing off neatly from the hub, then you remove the hub nut and tin lock plate, followed by refitting the hub nut onto the thread leaving about 3/16ths of a gap from the nut to the sprocket, this is the bit that is Megga important as it saves loss of blood and damage to your tooling??? so always check this item I never tug on owt' untill I check this detail, then stuff up all your legs,feet and cylinder ready for a bit of action, also place the nose pin from the ram to the adaptor on the dead shaft, I often use an OTC pry bar on the this detail its just a habbit I have, then start to stuff a bit of oil into the cylinder and check on the ram rod travel as the least rod out the better the pull will be, I have differing length rod end fittings to sort this detail as I know less rod is best, then build up the pressure to around 60ish ton if it has not popped off before this point, then I leave it for a few moments so it knows I am boss, then pump up to around 75 ton if it is still hanging on at this point, I take a run at it swinging a 14lb hammer and give it some pain, this usualy gets things going my way, anyhow a few snaps of the innards would be handy. tctractors p.s. its best to leave the blade outside the building or not near the spot you are going to be working around, also peg up the cylinders and tie the rods in to the cylinders with weak cord (pull cord) to stop them drifting out.
Ok. I think I got all that and I'll go do some studying in shop talk. I never thought of using the machine power to spin the hub nut off. I did use it to force the bearing off but I did it by hand with a claw spanner. Lol. I had the cylinders tied up with a strap. Why do you say to leave the blade outside?
this is interesting, I live about 20 miles north of hamburg which sounds like pretty close to where you might be? that tractor looked familiar which is why I was wondering.. check out tony's posts, he has a wealth of good experience to draw on.
Ya that's not far at all! Machine is located about 30 miles east of St. Joe.
Dmax, the blade only gets in the way if you drop it off and reverse out of it a few feet, you dont need it near you so dont have it causing trouble for you, the rams that you just left dangling again is doing you no favours, firstly it make the customer think that you are lazy or clueless, well it does in the U.K. I can tell you that the owners would soon bark up a few verbs on this point, so suck the rods fully into the cylinders so they ballance, then hang them up on the pins and tie the rods to the cylinders with cord as they will drift out over a few hours, this also stops you banging your head on them or any damage to them, your cribbing up is also a bit small time and at best a bit unsafe, you need to poke a block under the F/D case and get a few baulks under the beam,those few sticks you poked under the hitch again look like a lack of experience at this sort of work, I would not be happy to start up the engine and power off the hub nut with your cribbing effort, so think about this point and work out what you might do better next time, as for stuffing things back together lets see the cogs first, just as a point what is going on in the opposite drive case, as it usualy works out best to pop both sides down, I can strip both sides on a good day on a D6/7 that is tracks off, frames out, rims blown and cases off with the gears stacked on a pallet by myself, the owners usualy have the blade removed for me awaiting my efforts, I also tell the owners to have a pallet of timber baulks or rail timber in around 3 feet lenghts ready for me. tctractors p.s. the hub bearing I remove in about 5 min's by myself or about 4 mins with the owner sat in the pilot seat, you must have sweated some on this task and wasted about an hour?
Yair . . . As always tctractors has covered all the bases . . . I shuddered at the hitch balanced on the little pile of pine. It is always helpful to know the history of the tractor, like is it low hours for its age and this the first lot of finals? I believe it is pointless going this far and not re-racing the top pinion . . . hence my earlier comment about the fuel tank coming out. tctractors mention of stripping both sides together are my thoughts as well and it gives the option of side for siding some components. Cheers.
Pushing the hub nut off manually did take some effort but it only took maybe 10 minutes tops. The pins and brackets to tie up the cylinders are gone, that's why I hung a strap over the nose. The other side definitely needs taken down as it's filling itself up (pinion seal out) but the owner will never go for it. He's behind bad enough the way it is. I requested alot of cribbing before I started and I don't think they realized what amount and quality I needed. Guess that really shows my youth and inexperience. I just did the best I could with what I had available. Lol. However yesterday I did go get a load of good symmetrically cut hardwood for future jobs.
Great discussion! when you get the gears/bearings out please put up some pics of them too?
I will. I got them out the other day but didn't take pics. I aimed to get out there yesterday but didn't make it. I'll be back out there tomorrow and I'll take some good pics.
BTW- history on tractor- I'm not sure about total hours but BOTH finals were gone though less than 800 hrs ago. I don't know specifics of what was replaced but I do know bearings and seals were replaced.
With only 800hrs of use, you had better pay special attention to everything, as something has not been done correctly when it was rebearing/resealed.
Dmax, perhapse I have been an amount blunt with you, so I would like to say I hope you are not offended and sorry if you have been (I just read my post #12 its a bit daggers) anyhow you are just having a go all credit to you,removing the bearings race and roller all come with their drama and things can easily go wrong, the cutting torch is the weapon most people grab for in the quest to show off their lack of skill, try to avoid being this thick as the damage soon compounds, its about now you need to drain the transmission oil if you intend to swap out the bearings, the intermediate gear rides on the inboard side in a bearing within a housing, behind this housing lies about 20 gallons of jollop so save the mess on the floor and drain it. tctractors
Yair . . . 02Dmax . As Mjrdude1 mentions something has gone very wrong with the last refit . . . those drives should do 10,000 hours plus. Full marks to you for your application and attitude . . . firstly for getting into it with some enthusiasm (this is a specialised task) and secondly for taking constructive criticism without getting your knickers in a twist. It seems you may be working without a manual . . . if so I would try and get one urgently. With "the book" and assistance from tctractors and others on here it should go together fine. I am just an old Dinosaur who used to do a bit of this kind of work out of necessity about fifty years ago. I know enough to recognise that when it comes to oval track final-drives tctractors is the leading authority publishing anything online . . . even though he says "I am no expert" quite often. (big grin) Cheers.
Yair . . . tctractors posted while I was typing . . . similar thoughts conveyed, good stuff. Cheers.
TC, I take the criticism well! Lol. To be honest this forum is the only place I've learned/seen any kind of bedside manner so to speak. I'm one of very few guys in my line of work independently in my region. I'm always trying to do a better job and obtain more tooling and good equipment. So anytime an elder tells me how I could improve my work area or process I take it with a grain of salt. I absolutely love this kind of work and I seem to be the only one around that loves it. Most dealership guys won't even talk to me since I'm a "scab" and the ones that do just whine about how bad their job sucks and how I should've gone to college. Lol
PS - I'm 28 so I'm used to constructive criticism from "more experienced" mechanics.
It looks like I was a bit slow on my posting about bearings etc, anyhow the fact that you managed to force the front hub bearing off by hand with a C-Spanner in around the 10min mark sort of makes me think the hub is worn some and probably had a shave of metal removed by the brute that tackled this task just a short time before you, as by hand its a killer task that turns into an endurance test for a good hour or more, so take it from me something on that hub has taken a hiding and not as CAT made it, the outer hub is most probably your trouble spot, this needs stripping down with the slide and dowel peg checking, also the adjuster collar checking for turning on the thread, this is the bit you dog up tight then roll the sprocket (Engine Powered) and re dog it tight. tctractors p.s. if you study the pictures in the shop talk spot, Dmax you will see how I suck off the front hub, I tighten up the bearing pre-load adjuster right firm then use the pulling gear to pop it free, as often its the only way to remove them, you will also spot the hub nuts being driven off via the C-Spanner and a block of timber, this does have its danger warning on it mind so only let idiots near when you try this.
tct.. could you please show some pics you might have of all this?
oldirt, at 1 time there was over a 115 (I think ) pages of my rubbish in the shop talk slot, (untill it was eaten or dumped?) if you look at my latest thing Caterpillar sprocket removal, I have posted a few (just a few) of the heaps of snaps I have of tasks I have a pop at, this last week I have been flogging my guts out on an Extec Crusher swapping jaw plates rebuilding the side conveyor and removing the grizzly feeder to sort the beast out some, next week I am back on the 631-637G's polishing up the hoods. tctractors
thanks, tony. I have been looking through them all! are you the younger or older gent caught in the pics? what do you use for a crane in your work?
With such a low hour failure it makes me wonder if the last guys turned the bearing preload nut the wrong way. I've seen guys do that before.
I was wondering that too. Everything seemed loose and the bull gear was clearly making contact with the outer housing. I'll be out there later and post pics.
oldirt, you dont see much of me in my pictures as its my Kodak and I sort of get fussy about other people touching my stuff, but I am on page 3 rebuilding a D342 engine (D8H) and yes I am an old dog, my Wife has Knickers older than Dmax is, anyhow as for work method and equipment that I use, the U.K. has no place for the large mechanics trucks all fitted out like the lads in the U.S. run, here the usual service van is the Ford Transit overloaded to hell, I have always used Land Rovers with a simple dinky little tool box and a few oddments to tackle the simple repair, if I go to pull down a D8 F/Drive I take the correct tooling to tackle the job, as for crane lifting it usualy comes down to useing my brain and a lever lift (pull lift) or an excavator etc that is on site, crane lifts cost coins so I never realy get a Crane lift, but to be fair to myself I can usualy jack, block and ease most big chunks around without to much fuss. oldirt you should read some of my postings, if you can understand them some are right funny. tctractors
I have read most of it and I did notice your land rover and wondered if that was all you really needed. obviously it is! You must be the most resourceful individual I have ever known if you can do all this without a lifting device. I wish I could have worked around you and actually learned something the right way..
Had a job about a mile down the road from the old 7 so I stopped and snapped some pics this morning. These first 2 are of the inside of the outer housing where the bull gear has rubbed.
Reduction gear roller bearings Pinion shaft outer roller bearing
Sprocket splines
Here's a shot looking into the inner hub race. Kind of a tattle tale, looks like the inner bearing has gone out at some point and gouged up that surface.
Inner sprocket seal where the leak was. Both surfaces look great but obviously if it wasn't tight enough it would've leaked And finally a shot of the hub splines
Yair . . . 02DmaX Every one works different but I always found it helps to get everything pretty clean before disassembly. That last pic. showing the seal face and mud and dirt up on the housing would give me conniptions. I realise it is all going to be cleaned before re-assembly but it is pretty easy to get in there with a water-jet and give it a good boojee before the teardown . . . out in the sticks we just used a fire-fighter pump and a couple of drums of water in the back of a pickup. Good pictures . . . are you going to show us the front and back of the teeth? Cheers.
Ya I've got some more pics that wouldn't post for some reason. I prefer to blast stuff off with a Hotsy but I don't have one, the customer doesn't have one, and when I showed up to work on it they hadn't even dug the mud out and it was all froze. I took a skidloader with forks to bust up most of it and scraped the rest that I could. Next week I intend to haul most of it over to a nearby shop and give it a good washing. I've always wanted a pressure washer on my rig.
Sounds to me like you guys have customers with alot of their own equipment and lifts. And it sounds like they have things better prepared. When I get a call I better have every single thing it takes to do the job. When something breaks around here, seems they just walk away from it and tell me to call them when it's done.
dmax, great pics.. I too would like to see closeups of the gears/pinions. I know people who drop the dirtiest job on their help and just expect them to perform miracles too.
Yair . . . 02Dmax . Gotcha mate, wasn't being critical just saying like I see it. Frozen mud and oil and crud is one bloody thing I never had to contend with . . . hats off to you fellers who have that climate to contend with. Cheers.
Damn that's a nice looking 7. Wish it'd be going to my shed when it's fixed.:drinkup
Dmax, a snap of the Dead Shaft and the gears would have been good? also check the key position in the Dead Shaft end, it needs to be in the 12 Of the clock spot,the areas around the bearing locations need to be checked for any signs of the thick in the head mechanic as the outer cover bearings are dowl pinned in the case, the part of the hub past the spline would have been of interest also, the inner case marks from the gear are standard marks that I love to see. tctractors
Ya I'll try and get those other pics posted. Not sure why they wouldn't yesterday. Scrub Puller - I've always wondered if there was any part of your country that sees cold temps. Hopefully someday I'll be able to make a trip down and see for myself.
Pinion teeth
Dead shaft and key/keyway
Bull gear teeth
Here's some of the hub. Looks like previous injury evidence on the inside. Pretty rough.
And finally some of the reduction gear teeth.
I'll be back out there tomorrow if someone wants pics of something else.
Yair . . . 02Dmax . Excellent pictures. There appear to be no ill effects due to running short of oil and no chipped teeth or spalling. With only 800 hours on components I reckon the bloke paying the bills is going to take a punt in that inner pinion bearing. (wry grin) Oh, there are parts of Australia that get cold . . . I remember pulling a transmission out of a D9 one night and spanners were freezing to the mud that had worked up through the tarpaulin I was working on underneath . . . nothing like you folks have to endure for months though. Cheers.
Good info. Maybe I'll retire down there in about 40 years. Haha. We've had it easy so far this year. Had about a week of single digits and some negative digits at night but it's back above freezing now. Honestly I like the cold because it freezes the mud for easier job access and kills the bugs! I'm sure my opinion will change though after more years of fighting equipment in cold weather daily.
Dmax, as I have said I am no expert but you do seem to have possibly a few dramas, the bull gear hub looks out of shape some? that is the area the bearing locates on in front of the nut, the dead shaft needs checking for bend then if found good lift the key out and give the key grip a few shots with a hammer, this key needs to be in the grip firm for re-assembly and checked before you nut things up, I see you have marked the dead shaft with hub splines as it all let fly with no nut on the hub??? you need to avoid this blunder going forward to your next job, its better to rebuild F/Drives with the steering clutch out as you can turn things by hand and get a good " Feel " on the bearings when the outer case is re-fitted, anyhow the 1 side rebuild should take you max 3 days to do that includes the bearing swap etc so get busy. tctractors
Copy that. Parts are supposed to be here tomorrow so I'll be back on it then. I'll go check the dead axle for straightness today.
Just a thought Dmax on 2 points, No1 I see only a single oil line going to your rim pull kit, so how do you press the rim back on ? I have never seen this style of press kit, No2 does the sprocket have the tin labrith guard on both face's its rivited in place, oh and dont forget the bearing race's are all pegged other than the 2 bearings on the main hub. tctractors
Tony you're right, it is a 1 way press. It's got a hole clear through the middle so that the adapter shaft goes from the dead shaft, through the press, then there's a giant nut on the backside that holds the press in place. Then there's another adapter that goes on the nose of the press (basically a very heavy wall pipe) that pushes on the sprocket. If that makes sense does it sound like it will work? How much pressure do I run the press up to pushing it all back on?
And no, there is no guard on the sprocket.
those guards seem to rot off in short order in these parts.. I agree that it would sure be better if they were on there however.
If you clean off the area and find the remains of the labrinth guard you will find it is held with rivits, grind the head off these carefully and ping off the guard base that is left, (please check your parts book to see if these bits are fitted?) the guard is most important on both sides of the sprocket, if the remains are found and it is part of the build I will tell you how to re affix them, the rivit method is not the easy way, it might be the CAT way but it takes an age and is a fair pig to do, the guards must be in place to make the job last more than a week. tctractors
I can't even find those guards in the parts book. There is a guard attached to the outer housing that the outer race is in. It's in great shape. There's no sign of a guard ever being attached to the sprocket
Got a few things cleaned up and a couple bearing cups replaced before the owner called and sent me to a couple urgent breakdowns.
Those parts are so shiny it looks like there's no threads. That looks like a pretty nice polish job.
Diesel fuel and scotch Brite pads!
Gears cleaned and installed. Bought this pricey little spanner today. I'll be keeping it tethered to something. Can't afford to lose that thing.
How pricey is that? I found one on a trailer headed for scrap a few years ago. I thought that was what it was. Thankfully I haven't had to use it yet.
$450
put it in the "don't loan out" drawer..
Dmax, I have about 4 of those spanners left plus 2 or 3 spare hooks, anyhow I should have said that I did peep in the parts book and on this G series the bit of tin nailed to the rim are not fitted, but the tin that bolts on to the case and outer lump need to be in top nick, you will also need some old cylinder head bolts to help re-fit the outer case, plus some stiff grease to pack up the top and inter bearing rollers so they dont dangle, there should be a fancy spacer behind the adaptor on the dead shaft to push the hub against the back bearing so think about this point some, the srocket pressing is the easy bit with a target around the 60 ton spot the same as a D6D, the tin lock is best fitted just firm by hand and then the locks bent over on the nut first in the fancy space, then dog up the nut and and bend over the tangs onto the hub, there is a face measurment on the hub pressing thing on the D7s' its around the 1/2" dip but dont panic if its a bit less. tctractors
Thanks TC. The tin is in perfect shape so I'm in good shape there. Got the sprocket pressed on and nut snugged up. I'll head back out and finish it up in the morning. When I get the end cap on that holds the outer race and outer duo cone final seal, how tight do I snug the seal housing to the sprocket? I marked where the original location was but I don't think it was adjusted properly by the last mechanic.
The big collar that you coughed up big coins for the C-Spanner for needs to be loosend near all the way off, then the big nut on the dead shaft done upto spec' then you tighten the coller by turning it anti the clock, dont go crazy just untill it feels firm, then start the tractor and motor the rim some, then re-tighten the collar with a tube on the costly spanner, again re run the rim around (with some oil in the case always) finaly tighten the collar to enable things to lock up, I usualy re-check this adjustment within the first few weeks of the repare, did you lock the ears of the lock tab behind the nut onto the nut first? also how did you remove/re-fit your bearings. tctractors
Ya I locked the ears. As far as removing bearings I was able to use bearing pullers to remove the rollers, I welded a bead around the surface of the races to get them to fall out. Refitting I froze anything that was an inside mount and bearings mounted on an outside circumference I put in my little grill in a bowl of oil and heated them to about 300 degrees. Most slipped right on, a couple I had to persuade with a soft dead blow. Thanks for all the help. As long as I'm left alone I should have it done today.
Dmax, could you send me an email? [email protected] (remove the 1) thanks..
Email sent
I got the old girl finished up Saturday morning and it literally went straight to the dirt. I intended on getting more pics of the assembly process but the owner sent a couple of the hired guys up to "help" me finish. So I had my hands full trying to finish the dozer and keep an eye on them too. I've got 6C to do both finals in coming up soon and a different 6C to pull the torque out of also. I'll post pics and dialogue with them.
Enjoyed the reading the thread, hope you don't mind I saved all the pictures. I've got a 7G too, hopefully I don't get to see that part of mine for a long, long time.
if you run it long enough you will see the inside of everything that turns and some stuff that doesn't.
No problem 69camaro. Glad you enjoyed it!