Just got a small OLD dozer, 6way blade, doing a small job with it. I have the rough grade done. This particular job does not require finish grading, but no time like the present to try and learn. I have searched the forum, found a few things like backblade or not to backblade, but no real techniques were discussed. So looking for tips and techniques. I have seen other jobs done with just a dozer and it looked like the lot was ready for seed. So I know it can be done.
Not too many of us jumped on a dozer with no practice and carried a grade the first time.It takes a lot of practice and you more or less learn as you go.It is some help to watch others but it still takes quite a bit of practice to know what you are looking at that causes his work to come out right.It is a big help to have material in front of the blade while grading.Ron G
I am still learning and also looking for tips, most of what I do know is from watching good operators but there is a difference between watching and doing. Like Ron said though material in front of the blade is key. I can also say that there is a natural ability for it and some have it and others just don't, one operator (former laborer) at work is a natural and it is unreal how fast and accurate he is compared to everyone else, and on every machine he jumps on.
pull a string. low throttle. carry grades on an arc. ( imagine how you try to get something flat if you were sitting in the sandbox playing with your kids- youd rub your hand in an arc) take small sections at a time. GET OFF AND WALK AWAY. dont get frustrated.
When finish grading run the machine at a speed you can handle. After you make your first pass move over one half a blade width, that way one one of your tracks is on (hopefully) level ground . Don't be bashful about backdragging with the blade in the float position. If your grade isn't level after a couple of passes, try going diagonally to what you just did.
If i have enough material i try to build up a little high then cut down to a level but with a small machine i find it hard to avoid the ups and downs.
I just bought a 1985 Komatsu D31 and Im haveing the same problem with finish grading. This is all good information. Thanks
Cheap, I had learned to grade on a RD7 dozer, straight blade welded at a 2" pitch to the right corner, small machines take time to master doing finish grading, like said i also carry a blade of dirt and bring the grade with me, keep my blade angled left/right about 6 to 12" back which stops the up and down dipping as the tracks move, and if it starts back up and bring it again, keep your speed where you can make adjustment over a longer area, and it's not a sin to back drag. Sometimes ground apples,roots take you to a differant place while grading also! stop and throw them out or you will fight them again and again.
there is no replacement for practice, and a small dozer is almost the hardest machine to learn to operate well. Best training aid for becoming a proficient finishing operator is a 500 gal skid tank full of diesel.
Yeah like sheepfoot said, if your not using a processed material, like a 1-3" minus, your gonna want to get off and pick rocks, or have the laborer pitch em out. Also, take a small section at a time. "To GET flat, you need to BE flat"
Thanks for the flash of insight guys. I am a "natural" now....I can cut/fill and flatten with the best. I hate to work for someone, but when I have to, it only takes 15 minutes with a D5H and I get hired at top dollar. Ha....I realize now that I learned the hardest way. In 1981-83 I spent 1400 hours on a JD 350B. I built miles of road, cut/filled and flattened to within 2 inches by eye, several 1 acre pads for house and shop, and built a 1 acre pond that when the water trickled over the spillway, I had about 12" of freeboard on the dam.....I just kept after it....I never look at the work.I always pick a reference point on the horizon and work to that, Like they said, keep your blade full. I remember "riding the waves" that I made and getting furious... Ya' just gotta "get behind the mule".
Apparently in all those years of experience you never picked up any techniques in modesty.
Before you start you need to get a picture in your mind of what you want your finished product to look like then work to that end.
I have gained a lot of info, has saved me a long time experimenting. thanks for the good advice.
back dragging with your blade angled will help take ripples out
I once believed the dozer was similar to a wood plane - but then I came to realize the wood plane carries no chips while the dozer carries an ever increasing pile of spoils (until the pile rolls and spills) - point being, this ever increasing 'pile' dogs the machine and causes the tracks to dig in but they do so more at the heel.....regardless the center of the undercarriage drops down, and there is an angle change and from what I have seen, the tendency is for the cutting edge to elevate a little..... rather than fight all the way on a pass, let the machine stabilize and be a little high at the end of the pass and just push that material off to the end or stopping point.....yes it will be too high at the end of that pass but that is ok, then dont back up all the way, go maybe within 20 feet or of where you started then lightly engage (i prop my seat up so I can see over the track and look at the ground behind the blade edge) and do another pass and then once again dont go back to that point, almost but not quite....the folks tell me they 'want the material to be carried' but that sets the machine at a certain angle, for those last passes I don't like it to dig the tracks into the grade....we use the dozer for grading subgrade for flat work on concrete slabs and finishers are pretty picky....I generally angle the blade to keep windrows to a minimum and also use magnetic angle bubbles and levels to help me verify what I am feeling along with some laser shots and some whiskers and stakes etc. The idler wheel is often not adjusted for the elevation of the chain as per the rollers - these must be checked - we do so every chance we have to walk on a flat surface...the grouser under the idler must be on the grade same as the other grousers under the chassis...
Don't feel bad about running a dozer, like stumpjumper said a small dozer is one of the hardest machines to be proficient at excluding motor graders. A story from the other day- Out of the few pieces of iron I have (track loader, backhoe, dozer, skid and mini-hoe), I am the worst on the D5. Last week I went out with a friend of mine to spread a load of crusher run on the private road that services his house and a few more. We tailgated the crusher run and I proceeded to blade it out. Now it's been almost 2 years since I have really ran the dozer, so I was getting back into the groove and doing OK. That's until the king of dirt (a local legend in the earthmoving industry in our area who also lives on the same road) pulled up and started watching. Needless to say, after 20 years of operating various pieces of equipment, I was as nervous as a whore in church. Practice, practice, practice and a full fuel tank is really the only way to go.
One more tip from someone who has spent way too many hours on a "too small for the job" machine: if you get "washboards" in your grade, the simplest way to get them out is to turn around and work the opposite direction. This wont work as well if youre doing pad work, but for road building and situations that you have room to play with, it works like magic.
A technique I was taught over 40 years ago. On a small dozer if you feel like your BUTT is raising up, then your blade is cutting too deep. Grading slab on grade a plumber told me I was cutting a 1/4" too deep when I cut his pipe. Stump Knocker
If you are washboarding it while finish grading you are taking too big of a bite. Lighten up. Try to keep the load the same the entire length of push. You start the push with an empty blade and then the more it loads the more it pulls down on it. You try to correct for the downward pull on the blade and the next thing you know you are riding the waves. Start out and pick up a light load and maintain that same load thru out the push by drifting onto what is already on grade. Remember its finish grade, you are not hogging dirt. Kinda like the arc the previous poster mentioned. Also when you do the rough in make sure you have just a little too much material so that the final grade is a light cut. It's much easier to finish grade with a light cut than it is to make a fill.
Besides the good advice these guys have given, you need to develop a feel for your blade control. Not all hydraulic valves are created equal and for finish grading you need to make fine adjustments. Most valves have a sweet spot where the blade just begins to move up or down. At high idle, pull the control lever back SLOWLY till the blade begins to SLOWLY move and make a mental note. Push the control forward SLOWLY till the blade SLOWLY goes down and make a mental note. Now you know how to make fine adjustments to the blade rather than big jumps. Like someone else said run a level string line, say 100ft on level ground on good soil (no rocks). Duct tape a dowel to your dozer arm so it sticks out and can reach the string line. Adjust the string height so your blade will cut say 2 inches. Now try to keep the dowel on the string by making fine corrections. This will give you a feel for the blade control and help develop an eye for cutting grade.
I like the string & dowel technique. I have found grading diagonally from your first pass helps. My D6C has a straight blade and I am still getting better (I hope) like everyone said I think mostly it just takes lots of practice.
no one has brought up that if the blade is loose it is almost impossible to get finish grade if the blade has alot of slop in it. more so if you are just learning.
That is the best piece of advice I have seen yet. When I'm operating I am working inside my head just as much as in the dirt. My mind works 10 steps ahead of my hands. When I climb into the operators seat, I become one with the machine, the blade/bucket are an extension of my self, another limb. Speaking of which, gotta go get ready for work, reclaiming old trenches today again.
first adjust your seat, 90 degree posture .Feet on foot pegs ,bracing your but in the seat.thats how you will feel the ups and downs .i mean 1 inch ups and downs ,than be quick on the controls. thats how i level .i have 20 y. exp. on all sizes of dozers,leveling leases in Alberta Can.
great comments! I will have to try the string thing. I am learning too, I hadn't tried putting the blade at a slight angle, that would deffinately take the washboard out. I just re-pinned and shimmed my controls, I do have some slop in the blade that really needs to come out too. TD7E driver....
WHen dad started working with me on the dozer He told me the same thing Olderndirt and Conky stated get it in your head what its too look like. Also what Octane stated the 90 degree posture. i see alot of younger cool operators slouched in the seat trying to finish. I dont completly have it down pat yet. Most of my work has been in the landfill in ur old worn D5B. When I operate I usually site 90 degree with my left foot flat on the floor and the other on the stirrup and decel. I just feels more that way. ALso get ued to your machine. WHen I get off the 5 on other dozers it takes a minute to get up to speed. Also dont be ashmed to get off and walk around and look. I have a friend that bragged about an operator didnt have to get off a machine. I dont trus my eyes on some things. My big thing that gets me is we have alot of sand there and blading it you need to have a full blade to even feel it. It gives the machine something to feel. The first day dad had me in sand I had to got get the scraper to clean up my mess. My favorite thing to push is sand with soap stone clay streaks in it. Pushing the sand youll hit the soapstone clay and the tracks will spin down, ot the clay will roll out in a huge chunk. THe other tip here I learned was make on pass and then get one half of the blade on the firt pass it really helps.
I would say there are three things that I see people do wrong when they start to finish. (Hah, start to finish) 1.) Slow down. Anybody can carry a flat pass with a load in front of the dozer and never touching the decelerator (well, after you've been on a dozer a while). 2.) Relieve the heavy dirt in front of you. I have seen operators trying to finish the back of the pad while pushing dirt over 1 1/2 of cut in front of them. 3.) Don't look at the bottom of the blade to see what you're cutting. Watch the nose of the Cat (or the radiator, someone said horizon) to tell level. But most of all, SLOW DOWN.
Maybe that works for Davinciman, but I ran finish dozers for a lot years and when cutting or filling to finish grade I always watched the corner of the blade. Plus you have to learn to feel what the dozer is doing. Every dozer is different. I always ran in 2nd gear with a ground speed that varied to suit the conditions I was in.
I'm with Tinkerer. Gotta be in 2nd gear, the rest of it is just feel.
Depends on the type of material and conditions. I have done lots of finish that had to be done in 1st much to my bosses displeasure, but I have "never" had to go back and fix my work.
Classic! This has some enormous potential as a sig.
You are dead on about the sand, its much easier to do if you have a full blade full, matter of fact its almost impossible to do if you have less then a 1/4 blade full. I never run in 1st unless im in a very hard push, and bulking material, When im finishing im in 2 or 2.5, i get it close then flip the auto on
wow your kidding, you guys run that fast? I need to try picking up the pace a bit. I will defininately have to try this in my practice lot!
If you have GPS like vapor there is no reason you can't finish that fast unless its rocky or you have a sloppy dozer. I don't agree about sand unless its dry then its pretty hard to grade without a blade full. Chunky clay is pretty hard to finish without a bit in front of the blade too.
d5h is a awesome finishing dozer lgp i used one in the yukon for 6 months and thats what i learned to run dozer on it was older and a sloppy blade but learned on that and made me appreciate running one that was well taken care of for me pushing pad/ finishing i keep an eye on my left corner bit usually and have my doors open and with a smaller dozer you can tell when your taking on too much material lol. but like anything all it is, is lots of practice and i have been shown many different ways and i have used lots of tips but also you gotta figure out what works the best for you cheers, ryan
also i was going to post pictures but it says i dont have access is that because im a "probationary member"?
this is proably the wrong section but does anyone know of any places hiring right now either in bc or alberta or some names of some companys. thanks again ryan.
Don't blame me, I was born to doze Remember. when you have "natural" status, not only can you run in what ever gear you feel like running, you can also get away with telling the boss, " just shut your trap and pay attention, you just might learn something". ointhead
time in the seat, and a good teacher best for beginers. problem is no one wants to baby sit new operators. but having a small amount of material in front of the blade does help considerably, especially on smaller short tracked machines.
the most well balanced machine i have ever finsihed with was a 8T with 28 inch pads without a ripper. The hardest was a D6t xl with a vpat blade and rippers, man that thing was just so unbalanced
To get good at finnish grading, get yourself a gas start TD-9 with a 4 roller undercarage with a sloped out non adjistable blade. Then grade as many differant surfaces as you can, my favorite is sand with a clay ribons in it. Spots in Michigian are interesting, as you can go from muck to rockish clay with a touch of quicksand in less than 30'. After you have put a thousand gallons of fuel through it then you are starting to learn.
I'll usually start out in first till I get things levelled out to where I feel comfartable going up to 2nd then just stay on the bit. Lots say not to run the blade out empty but for me personally I find it easier to keep everything on grade that way. If I'm just pushing dirt to move it from here to there then I don't run the blade empty at all.
You said that rather nicely
Just a tidbit... Last weekend I replaced the seat in my TD7, being able to sit properly in the machine made a huge difference in being able to control the machine!
Invision the exactly how you want it before you start. Be carefull what you think, because your thoughts become your reality. As my old boss used to say " you have to have a leveling bubble in your butt" If you feel a change, its too late.
My dad and you must have gone to the same school alaskaforby4. He used to say "use that gyroscope that I planted in your ass when you were a very little boy."
All good info. Always keep some dirt on the blade, If you get some rollers in your path adjust your speed a little and work over them on a slight angle. Only go as fast as you can handle. Always have a plan and work toward it. Backblading is fine , makes your work look great but not worth a damn if your not on grade. Bulldozers are best suited to pushing forward, and if you have a lot of debris in the ground you will get a smoother finish pushing across than backblading where you will get that debris jammed under the blade and just leave big holes in your work.
Kind of an old thread, but here goes my two cents worth. I believe the OP stated he was attempting to finish with a six-way angle blade dozer. First, it is going to take you a while to become a finish dozer hand, so don't overload your expectations. A motor grader will sort of run itself to a degree, but a dozer, it's all on you. Secondly, put a slight angle to the blade, throttle way down and sever your way through material, don't shear. This is especially helpful in any cohesive material with a higher plasticity index (read clay). I knew an old guy who would slice through Louisiana gumbo by just holding pressure on the blade with the dozer not tracking until the clay started giving it up. The he'd work the angle control one way and the other and shave the knots right off. When he still felt the knot, he'd back up and cut it down to the surrounding pass elevation. I used to watch him do highway work so good, some grader operators couldn't touch him. His favorite dozer was a narrow pad, narrow blade D4 CAT with foot steering when I knew him in the early 90's. This guy could cut 1/4-inch paving grade using that slanted angle blade technique. He truly had taken dozer operation to new heights. The company had tried him on motor graders and he simply could not run one. Which, of course, was a good thing for guys like me. Anyway, didn't mean to wax poetic so much. That's my story and I's stickin' to it.
Hey Bluetop what was that mans name I know of one or two hands that good also but it may be the same guy!
Carrol Keyes, an old school T.L. James hand now with J.B. James last I heard.
[URL="http://xxxxxxxxxx]http://xxxxxxxxxx[/URL]
Do you mean that if I cut a fiber optic cable, that stuff is all I need to fix it before AT&T arrives???
Please don't respond to spammers, I now have to leave their post here so thread doesn't get discombobulated.
Mate, if you have done a reasonable job of it, just let your tracks do all the work! Track rolling the site will spread and pack down a lot of your windrows. Work in one direction then go at it again at 45 degrees...
Mate, If you do a half decent job of it just let your tracks do all the work! They compact your windrows and if you work in one direction then hit it again at 45 degrees you will be surprised...
Try and get a slop meter, they help with knowing what the % of grade you are working on, and take your time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good idea - I got a yatch one that is pretty accurate to stick to the dash Jimbob