Hi Guys! I'm new to this forum and new to the d6c Cat. A good buddy of mine got one for his farm and I'm helping him go through it. Luckily I've rounded up an authentic Cat shop Manual (800+pgs) but it's clear we're going to need advice from the "Experienced" The Basics: d6c 10kabove 8900, So.. 3306 turbo/pwr.shift. Obviously we're working a number of issues, but first: Has anyone come across any Service/Repair publications, for the d6c, you'd consider "Better" than Caterpillar's? Next: We've tracked down a steady hyd. leak (engine running) at the rear center of the Torque Divider. It's NOT; output shaft seal, scav.pump housing gasket or hyd. hose mount gaskets. Apparently the large O-ring/seal between the carrier and divider housing has failed. I retorqued (to factory) the 8 external 9/16 bolts that circle the output shaft and the leak got a little worse. WHAT ARE WE INTO HERE FELLAS??? We're preparing to march in, separate and pull the Torq. Divider. BUT we don't want to MISS ANYTHING that we could/should do while we're in that deep! We could really use some "Experienced Insight" Thanks Much!.. jo'doze
You won't find anything published anywhere in the world superior to a CAT manual of that vintage, they're golden. The only thing better than that manual will be if Tony of tctractors fame drops in to share a few verbs with you about the repairs you're doing, he's top drawer on those old CATs... Not to take anything away from any of the other resident experts here who will hopefully be along shortly to advise you. I never had the joy of working on the innards of any 6's, though the odd 7 felt my touch back in the day.
Sadly the other expert on these Cats, Bob/Ont passed away earlier this year. I'm sure he's wrenched on more than a few D6C's. Someone should be able to help you though.
Well I'm not expert on a D6, only had limited fun working on a couple, did help change a transmission pump a bit over a year ago. Anyhow the bolts you tightened are they the ones in the red circle in the picture below? If so I'd say the converter/power divider will have to come out as there is an oring that seals the support for the output bearing right inside of those bolts. If you have the Cat manual it probably tells you how to remove it. If not I could see what SIS has to say. Curiosity got the best of me: Remove Torque Divider (Power Shift) start by: a) remove transmission guard b) remove brake pedal assembly c) remove universal joint d) remove lubrication relief valve e) remove sequence relief valve f) remove torque converter outlet relief valve g) remove dash h) remove hydraulic tank 1. Remove the transmission vent line. 2. Remove oil line (2) from the transmission to the torque divider scavenge pump. 3. Install two 1/2"-13 NC forged eyebolts (1) in the case of the torque divider as shown. 4. Fasten a hoist to the torque divider. Weight of the torque divider is 300 lb. (136 kg). 5. Remove the twelve nuts (3) and washers that hold the torque divider to the flywheel housing. 6. Install two 3/8"-16 NC forcing screws in the case of the torque divider. Make a separation of the torque divider from the flywheel housing. It also makes mention of using a wire to keep the power divider in place as unit is removed and then reinstalled! Maybe Tony can drop in with some verbs to help too.
Thanks Lantraxco, I'm hoping to hear from the resident Experts! Also! Thanks Again... jo'doze
Hey Dave, On my first cup of coffee early this am. I was just thinking about how much we lose, when the elders pass on. Than I logged on and read your post. It reminded me of what one of my Farm Buddy's said. "When an old man dies... Another Library Burns". Bob/Ont is "Missed". Thanks... jo'doze
Tony can drop in with some verbs, in the picture that ksh has posted is the scavenge pump, this should be removed before you pull the case off the back of the flywheel, as this can/will be damaged even snapping the gear off if not bending the shaft, so remove it first and fit it last is the trick, in the drive divider hub is 2 bushings that need to be fitted with the oil grove in the correct way, your service book will detail this point clearly but its common to find them incorrectly fitted so check?? all the rest is easy even the springs and location of the drive plate is simple enough, any problems you have are helped with a photo easier. tctractors p.s. Bob was a Gentleman First Class, I thought very highly of him and loved his script.
To kshansen, Y-u-u-up! Those are the Bolts!.. And I'm thinkin' what Your thinkin'.. The O-ring between the Carrier and the Divider housing has failed.. As I mentioned, I'm seeking "Experienced Advice" here 'cause we don't to MISS ANYTHING that we Could/Should DO while we're this DEEP in the Machine!.. Thanks Again.. For your time and information.. jo'doze
tctractors,.. Great! Thanks Duly Noted! This is exactly the "Experienced Insight" we need. If there's ANYTHING else you can think of that we can/should.. Check?..Clean?..Service?..Replace?.. While we're at it.. I'd sure be grateful to know !.. Thanks Much!.. jo'doze
I believe the scavenge pump that Tony is referring to is the item circled in blue down at the bottom, I can see how the weight of the converter and torque divider could damage that small shaft. Tony if I'm wrong let jo'doze know. I'm more of a front end loader/haul truck guy. Dozers were few and far between at the stone quarry. They would haul one in for stripping and if it did not break while or before we used it it was gone in a few weeks.
To Tshansen Dozer's couldn't "Hang" in the Quarry???.. Aww!..Come On Man!!! haha.. Just kidding!! Solid Rock is the #1 challenge for any Machine!.. You just have to remember to follow around that "Big Box" of "Explosives" hahaha! Back to Business: Yes that's the Scav. Pump, Your getting good at spotting these d6c components. You'd sure be Welcome to join us, while we tear down this BEAST.. I can promise the Work is Hard.. the conditions are Awful.. the pay Stinks.. and it Won't be Fun... But you'd sure be Welcome!! hahaha... Thanks Again jo'doze
Dam he helped me out a few times. I even emailed him back and forth. Didn't he just retire? He was a good guy!,
jo'D, the stripping out and pulling to bits that little bit off the flywheel is simple, the biggest aid you can have is a steam cleaner, after all the floor plates have been lifted and belly pans dropped a few hours giving it a bath will make it easy, if you look in Shop Talk at my CAT Sprocket removal thing there will be converter pictures. tctractors p.s. also pop out the suction screen.
if it looks like it is coming out of seal there is a piston on shaft behind seal can be pulled by just pulling shaft had to many apart do want to go there if dont have to
Gee, would love to, but wait I think wife needs help folding the laundry and the lawn needs mowing!
I would R&I all the 'hook ring seals' example 2ea located in the scavenger pump drive gear inner bore directly under #5 in the attached photo...flooding (oil build up in the TD case) caused by excessive internal hook ring seals was most often the reason to work on Torque Dividers...
Hi Guys!.. I know it's said over & over... but I really appreciate your input and the generosity of your time!.. I'm making "Note" of the information you all have provided... and it's Helpful!.. Of course I have a continuing series of questions... some, concerning your prior "Posts"... I hope to have more "FORUM" time tomorrow... so we'll get back at it then... Good nite all you Fellow "DIRT MONSTERS", all you "MASTERS of GIANT MACHINE'S", dig Hard into the Mountains before you... And Sculpt Beautiful Valleys... in Dreams... jo'doze
To; tctractors... CHECK, CHECK and CHECK!.. All the steps you recommended, in yesterday's post, we accomplished last week, up to and including "Steam Cleaning"... So we're on track with what Your thinking!.. However... I didn't understand "Shop Talk at Cat Sprocket"... or What "Suction Screen" you were referring to?? If you have time to clarify... Thanks in Advance!.. jo'doze
To: dozr,.. Thanks for your input!.. If you meant the rear Seal for the Main (output) Shaft... Than no, it's not leaking there... If you have, or have access to the CAT Manual, in section "d6c Power Train".. subsection "Disassembly and Assembly".. page 167.. instruction #31.. reference #21.. Identifies the O-ring seal we believe has Failed... If you think of ANYTHING ELSE we should Watch For, Please let me know!.. Thanks!.. jo'doze
To: StanRUS,... I went through the Manual again this am., and I haven't yet identified the "Hook Ring Seals" you mentioned... Maybe when the Seal Kit gets here I'll figure it out!.. Please let me know, if ANYTHING ELSE comes to mind... Thanks Again!.. jo'doze
To: kshansen;.. I can't Believe you'd turn down the Chance to come to N. E. OHIO... And "MUD- WRESTLE" A big Yellow Cat!?!.. Just to cut the Grass!!! (I think you "know" what your missing) hahaha! Later... jo'doze
Well there is a Harley Sportster and Vespa GTV 300 that need to be kept from getting rusty by being parked too long too!
jo'd, scroll down the main headings to Shop Talk then look for Caterpillar Sprocket removal, the snaps are of a few jobs I have done in the last few years, you should not have ordered any parts until you have pulled the converter to bits, this task should take you 2 days to strip out and rebuild on a D6C with no cab fitted as they fly to bits easy, the hook ring seals are going to show their face as soon as you start to pull things apart, Oh and the last thing you need is people to give you a hand, firstly there is no room for a Gang to huddle down under the floor plates, plus the fact other people can distract your mind from the task, I don't care for people to help me much unless they are interested in the job and want to do the work, your Seal Kit? might be needing a bearing or 2. tctractors
tstractors; I get it.. "Shop Talk" is on "This" Site.. I'll check it out!.. I haven't ordered any parts yet, I've just started to check on suppliers and availability.. Fortunately Caterpillar has a strong regional presence.. Later on, I'll get some options on Parts/Suppliers etc. As for your recommendations on performing the work.. Again we're on the same page.. Our priority on this and the rest of the restoration is that it's Complete, Correct and looks Professionally Attended.. I'll get more questions together for the next post.. A second careful reading through the removal procedures has me wondering about this "wire support" thing, Cat says to "make", to hold the whole assembly together as it's moved to the "Bench".. But I don't need to know tonight... Thanks for your Quick Reply... jo'doze
All you need to do on the wire thing is pass any old bit wire/cable/rope around the front of the divider going through the cover bolt holes to keep the divider from falling as you lift the converter case out of its hole. tctractors
tstractors;... You are Too Good Man!!.. THANKS jo'doze
Just a little information that may help catch a problem I have a D6D and while removing the torque divider case one of the forcing bolts cracked the housing under where they thread in at after reinstalling the torque a steady ****** developed where the one forcing bolt was. Long story short on the D6D 04X which should be similar to yours under the one forcing bolt location there is a oil passage and the metal is very thin and it cracked there causing the oil leak hope this helps
jd550g;.. Good to hear from Ya.. Reading through your Post made me wonder how you fixed Your Problem?.. If I understood,.. You inadvertently cracked the (flywheel) case.. and it leaked.. Did you have to go A-l-l-l-l the way back in and replace it??. YIKES!!.. Next; From your advice, I thought this; (1) expect the case could be a little more than Difficult to separate.. (2) be prepared to "persuade" separation by GENTLY tapping a Gasket Scraper into and around the Seam.. In hindsight, would this have worked??. Thanks for your input!.. jo'doze
jo.. it woud be a great idea to find someone who has experience and knowledge of this procedure and pay him to help you through it so you won't end up costing yourself a bunch of money. once you do this you will be able to do it yourself the next time. (if you run it much, there will be a next time) just an idea from an old guy..
The case is not what got cracked it was a carrier assembly i think cat called it under the case causing the torque to have to be disassembled in order to replace the assembly Olddirt makes a good point i have been living this for the last few years with this machine still wouldnt trade it for anything though. I remember reading on here someone was talking about a D6C or D they owned they mentioned not a bolt on the machine they hadnt turned I am close but not quiet there LOL. A friend of mine has around 55,000 hrs on a D6D and it still runs everyday there proven they just need a little work now and then
Oldirt;... Thanks for taking the time to comment, and your advice... We'll be fine restoring this Tractor.. I'm just one of those "Mechanics".. Who believes "Preparation" is as important as the right Shop, and the right Tools & Equipment. That's why I've reached out to the "d6c Expert's" and their input has been EXTREMELY HELPFUL! in preparation to "FIX-UP" this old CAT.. We have a Large, Complete, Clean and highly Organized Shop.. "Experience" has stocked & outfitted the Shop, floor to ceiling, with the best Tools & Equipmt. And luckily we have the Ability and Wherewithal to Build or Buy, Anything else we'd Need.. I think we're going to be Ok!.. Thanks Again.. jo'doze
jd550g;.. Amen Brother!.. And thanks for that additional info.. I'm at my place in Cleveland this Am.. the Cat is on the Farm, an hour East of here.. But thinking about what you wrote.. We might have the same thing!.. As l posted earlier, we have.. 1.Removed skid plate (belly) and deck plates (floor) 2. Power Washed & Steam Cleaned the entire internal center section.. 3. Started the engine, and watched it Leak... However!.. I haven't gotten my "fat" head in close enough to identify what might be a "hairline" crack in the Carrier.. But we S-U-R-E will check CLOSELY, next trip!.. This May have saved us a TON!!! Thanks Thanks & Thanks!.. jo'doze
ok, I am glad you have a great shop. I will say there isn't much that hasn't been accomplished exactly where the tractor went down in the middle of a haul road in really bad weather. It isn't the facilities that get things done, it is experience. you can get that two ways, learn by disaster(really expensive, takes a long time) or hire a little help and learn from someone who knows where not to tread. I fix most stuff myself, and but if I find that I am in a place I have never been I call for help. I love my old 6D, it is a wonderful and long lasting machine. I just don't want to screw it up. Post some pics of what you are seeing, this is a very interesting topic. best of luck too..
hi, don't know if you are considering it, but if your in that far I would change the rear main engine seal and check the ring gear teeth for damage. Mark
Mark250;.. Hey Mark, Thanks!.. I will make a careful inspection of the Ring Gear, and of course, everything else we touch!.. But NO.. I hadn't considered the "Rear Main".. Good Tip.. I'll go into the "Books" and become acquainted.. If you Think of anything else,.. Thanks in advance!.. jo'doze
oldirt;.. Your Points are all well Taken.. And I recognize the Wisdom, You've been kind enough to share.. I hope to have more time to Post tomorrow,.. Maybe you could Advise me on how to "Post" a Photo.. As I mentioned, I'm new to this Forum.. I fully appreciate that a "Great Shop" doesn't make a "Great Mechanic", I just don't know of many "Good Mechanics" without one.. Till Later, Thanks Again.. jo'doze
ok, done with my soapbox. I actually have never posted a pic, but I believe it is all listed elsewhere on this site.. actually if you post using the "advanced" utility, you will see in the middle toolbar an "insert picture" icon.. I suspect this will be rather self explanatory after that. rear main seal would be a good idea since it will be exposed. you don't get to see it often. work slowly and be careful not to hurt yourself. take pictures of everything before you tear it up, might help in the refit. does me anyhow.
oldirt;.. Maybe we'll solve the "Post Pic's" thing together.. I'm using my, so called, "Smart Phone" so I'm probably seeing a modified version.. Oh well, I'll keep diggin' around, till I figure something out.. Thanks for your quick reply to the "Rear Main" topic.. You answered the first Question, that's been on my mind.. Of course it makes "Perfect Sense",.. but immediately I was wondering.. "Just how close will we be??/Will I be looking at it??.. I'll get into the Manual.. But Your Right!.. "Experience!,".. (Yours, and the other Guy's helping here).. Will make all the Difference!.. Thanks.. jo'doze
Once the converter/torque divider are out of the way about all that should be left to take out is the flywheel, I think 6-- 5/8 bolts or something like that. Cat has a special tool that makes installing new seal/wear sleeve as a set an easy job. They also have a tool that lets you remove the wear sleeve that may already be in there relatively easy. It is possible to make your own version of this with a piece of tool steel. Check out some of the recent posts by TCtractors he described how he mad his own a few days back. If you have a good working relationship with local Cat dealer or know someone who does might be able to borrow/rent the tool. Even for a first time user should be able to swap the old for new seal in an hour or so. Maybe pick tool up at quitting time and have it back in their hands at the start of work next day. Can't help on posting pictures via Smart Phone. On computer just above the box you enter the text in a message there are three rows of icons the middle one starts with the ones for Bold, Italics, Underline. The third on in that row has a picture of a globe which gets you to the "Post Link" window. The last one of those is the one that you click to load a picture. You then go to boxes that let you pick the picture from where it is saved on the computer or I'm guessing you phone.
Did anyone say about marking the Flywheel index to the Crank, they are marked with a chisel cut (Factory) also the bolts are Offset on 1 hole but its more fun to mark things and save some effort later, the tool to remove the seal sleeves I made about 20 years ago, its just a matter of a hard sharp edge and a rounded off smooth edge bit of hard steel, I would take that converter out on site on my todd and rebuild it next to the Tractor, then re-fit it easily in 3 days including fitting a new ring gear on the flywheel, Jo' you need to make a heap of bits fast. tctractors
Just a Quick, Late Comment;.. Thanks to each of you for all you've contributed.. I'll post to you individually.. time should permit tomorrow. A special THANKS to: oldirt; kshansen; and tstractors:.. you've all been very generous with your time, and more importantly your knowledge.. All the information you've provided is carefully considered, and Will be put to good use.. Because of your Help.. A complex project, requiring extra care, knowledge and attention throughout.. Is coming CLEARLY into FOCUS.. I AM Grateful!.. jo'doze
one old guy told me years ago that the hard part of a rebuild was getting started.. if so you are in clover!
... Amen!...
Bob is definitely missed, his knowledge was vast, and he was always very willing to help.
...Amen!.. Again!..
Just trying to figure out the "Post Pic's" Thing!.. If it works?.. This d6c 10k, is "our" new "Farm Cat", Late this spring, when we brought her home!.. If this work's, and if you can Zoom in.. That Guy waving his arms is my "Knot-Head" Brother! hahaha!.. jo'doze
great picture! just another thought, look around for some limb risers.. might save your turbo housing!
oldirt;.. GOOD!.. Apparently I've succeeded uploading the photo.. But MAN.. What a "CHORE"!.. Good news is, I can "Probably"?!. Do it Again?!.(haha) Anyway, "pictures" will help us communicate, when we get into the "nitty-gritty" Sound Advice, on the Limb-Risers.. I'm guessing that you can "Zoom-In" on the Photo, if so, you've already spotted the Riser "Brackets" on her nose. As you say, we need to Find or Build a set.. For the Least of Reasons, She'll "Look" better!.. More Later... jo'doze
Next;.. As we finalize preparation.. I was wondering if Anyone had a Strong Opinion on "Parts//Suppliers"?? At a minimum, this will require "all" Seals & Bearings involved.. So I'm thinking.. Go To & Stick With.. "Genuine Caterpillar" Parts. Does this sound Right?? For a couple of other issues, we've bought "Aft.Market".. But for important internal parts.. My gut feeling is "Stick with Cat." Any thoughts??.. Thanks!.. jo'doze
For parts try Offroad Equipment - www.offroadeq.com/ - they come well recommended from many members on here and AFAIK stock genuine Cat, Cat Classic, & aftermarket parts.
I have used this guy a lot, for bearings, pumps, seals, lines and even some track sheilds. machinery parts midwest, website is http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/ameritractor/catnumlist5.html shipping is good and quick. If I was rebuilding a final with new gears it would be 100% genuine cat. (for a very expensive reason)
Ok Guys!.. Thanks!.. We're depending on your experience here.. To install the best Quality Parts.. As mentioned, Caterpillar has an old and well established, full-service presence in this region.. We'll go to them, if you think it's best.. I was thinking Quality, over Price.. In this instance.. Just want to do the Best we Can!..
On older machines a Cat dealer is at a disadvantage because they stock parts for the more modern stuff. A lot of brand new genuine parts for "obsolete" equipment get sold off at a few cents on the dollar to reduce Cat/dealer parts inventories and end up in the hands of people like Offroad Equipment. Nothing wrong with them, just that they don't fit current stuff. For a machine of the vintage of your D6C it may well be that Offroad can do you genuine Cat parts at a lower price than the Cat dealer. Certainly worth a call anyway.
Buy as much as you can as cheap as you can, try to avoid the main dealers, I will bolt in any part that looks engineered. tctractors
CHECK!!!.. Thanks, Makes Sense..We'll Shop Around.. See What's Available.. Let Ya Know!.. jo'doze
I rebuilt a final almost three years ago, used cat classic parts even though they told me there was no warranty on these gears. the large bull gear teeth flaked off in 150 hours wrecking the whole thing. kind of like that pic that tony put up that said "not again" painted on the side of a final gear. I don't need to tell you how much this cost. this one deal cured me on cheap large gears and other stuff that is really time consuming to pull down to get to. On the small stuff I can r&r pretty easily I use aftermarket stuff that I got from joe at midwest. probably should have gotten the gears from them and maybe they would have been ok. I guess my idea now is do it right but only do it once.
...I'm with You "oldirt"...