Hi HEF, long time lurker here, first thread and I shall bring you pictures. I am the 4th generation in a small family business of moving dirt. Mostly working for farmers developing land and hauling in building pads, the occasional feed lot, some demolition, road building, just about anything you can think of. These pictures are of our 627G's when they came off of the truck last spring. Up until then we have ran B models, and it had just gotten to the point where they arent hardly worth fixing anymore because they are barely worth the tires they are sitting on. Don't get me wrong, they are good machines and will haul a ****load of dirt but, numbers don't lie. Sorry about putting them in link form, I have class this afternoon and don't have time to do a bunch of formatting, just threw something together for you guys to look at! This is my uncle, grandpa, my younger cousin (part timer!) and I, scoping out the new iron. We are more excited than we look I promise. http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/93df3352.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/839fa485.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/b057ec72.jpg Getting ready to back it off, I had never unloaded one before. No pressure, right? We don't even have a lowboy that can haul a 627 down the road. Well, not legally anyway. We never take on any work that is far enough away that we can't just road the machines to the job. http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/669d17ed.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/4464804a.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/f2424c45.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/1d941984.jpg Uncle and grandpa http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/ea082ca9.jpg This is the sweetheart of the three that we bought. I am the only one really partial to push-pulling the machines. Dad is real partial to cosmetics on the machines. Most of the reason this machine is so clean is that it doesn't have push pull on it at all obviously. You can imagine if the wrong guy gets in there he can cause some real damage. Obviously wasnt an issue with this machine. http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/091ba7ee.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/1203bbaa.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/5b7e0566.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/482a8799.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/d87679ef.jpg
thanks for the pictures
Yair . . . Nice machines jossie2000 . It's interesting how different folks have different ideas . . . and conditions. To my mind a 27 without push/pull is as useless as **** on a bull . . . I did'nt even know they were produced.LOL. Good luck with your new machines by the way. Cheers.
And in most cases you would be right! But in the sandhills of nebraska push pulling will only get you so deep until you are buried in sugar sand and need a cat pushing on you anyway. We have 2 that are push pull and the one that is non obviously, the two PP units stick together and then the non is the single we take when we need a small spot stripped somewhere or something. Its also better in tight spots where its not handy to have the front end turning you into a yard dart. Most people think nebraska is nothing but a big flat spot, and most cases this is true but like I said in my OP, we get a lot of different jobs and versatility is a must.
great fotos. and welcome to the forum! i love grandpa in the first set of fotos. you can just tell he knows a thing or two. regards, CD
Congrats on the new machines, quite the upgrade from the B's! Thanks for the pictures jozzie2000, I'm sure those G's will serve you well. Are they 3406/3306 powered, or are the C15/C9 models? The last one you unloaded kind of looks look like the latter. Good luck with them, and keep us posted!
Sharp eye there mister. I'm going to sound like an idiot and not be sure about what is up front on that. Did they put a 3406/c9 combo on any of those machines? I want to say that is it. What makes me think is that i'm pretty sure it is a CEX model, and Im pretty sure they didn't put c15s up front until the DBD's came out, I could be wrong on that. They have done well so far! Pretty much run circles around the B's, not to mention you don't feel like you spent all day getting the living **** kicked out of you at the end of the day.
Dug up some pictures of one of our B's. We were thinking about selling it and got it all cleaned up and redid the cab. Painted the interior, put a new headliner and replaced all of the cushions in there. If you had all the dirt this machine has moved, you would have a hell of a pile. http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/b2941864.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/1c227920.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/8bbd4c10.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/38d3da9b.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/4537cd3e.jpg http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/4c0368ae.jpg
I see that one of the push/pull units (611) has bias tires, while the other one (616) sports radials. Take a turn on each and notice the difference in both ride and performance(assuming the radials are inflated properly). Damn shame someone put rags on a G model. Best bet is to lose them for Michelins first time the opportunity presents itself. Anyways, thanks for sharing and best of luck with the newer machines.
You're absolutely right. We've been trying to get ahold of tires since before we even bought the machines, and with the H models having been put into production this spring, cat bought their fair share. Its hard enough to get the nice steel belted radials WITHOUT cat wiping them out. We finally did get a pair bought and mounted on that machine...last wednesday I think? But yeah, its in the program. Nice thing about Nebraska is that the sand isn't too tough on tires, they will probably run for years and never bother. I don't notice the difference so much but my dad and uncle tend to favor the radials. I guess i'll enjoy not being able to tell the difference while it lasts.
I hear you on that, haven't ran a B for a few years but we still have some E's kicking around, by the end of the day you feel like you really earned keep. First time time I was in a G I thought that there was a problem. I later clued in that it was actually quiet, I could actually hear myself think! I wasn't hearing that engine on the other side of the cab. I thought that the early 627 G's were basically powered by what was in the 627 F. 3406 C in the tractor, and a 3306 turbo in the back. I could be wrong though, that was an assumption on my part. The 627 G's I have dealt with have all been later ones with the ACERT engines. You guys took care of your B's, even after all the dirt they hauled for ya guys, they were looking pretty good! Nice job with the cabs.
I did some research before we bought them, this is what i (think) I remember: AXF series - just like the F models as far as the engines CEX - 3406/c9 DBD - c15/c9 Someone feel free to correct me. Yeah we have 3 b's that are pretty much all in shape like that minus the cabs being repainted. Taking care of our equipment has always been a huge priority. Glad you like the pictures, there will most likely be many more.
Being someone who is so meticulous about their equipment, you are definitely the type that should invest in new Michelins. Hands down the best tire made, and one of the wisest investments you can make. Sure they are gonna cost you more up front, but the increase in productivity as well as reduced downtime due to tire issues is where the bottom line is affected most. The increased up front cost will more than be made up for when the final cost per hour is tallied. Factor in that Nebraska sand and they may well rot before they wear out, and that will take a bare minimum of 25-30 years of direct sunlight. If you don't wanna pay the price for quality Michelins, I would recommend avoiding any other manufacturers radials and stay with either the General SL100's that are on the front of 611 or some Firestone bias. Bridgestone makes good radial haul truck tires, but I'm not at all impressed with their scraper radials. I would avoid Goodyears like the plague, period.:my2c
You're absolutely right tireman, you just pretty well confirmed all the research we did going into these machines. Those tires are so damn hard to get ahold of right now though. Here's the pic dad sent me when they were mounting them last week. We also did some tire swapping of the rear tires from our B's to our G's. Kinda difficult to imagine what kind of material they had those G's in that would turn them raggier than something that had been riding on the back of a B for however many years (before I was born, bout all I know) Here's what she looks like with new shoes: http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/j_ozzie_2000/e8de1e39.jpg
Makes me cringe when I see a scraper sitting straight as an arrow with the front sitting on a jack. Talk about unstable. First thing I'd teach a guy about doing scraper tires is to always turn the machine full lock before jacking the front end. I personally would never again use a jack on a scraper (haven't since I learned how to make one lift it's own front tire all alone almost 20 years ago), but neck blocking is definitely NOT something to teach guys with limited experience. Anyways, good to see you do your homework before making a purchase. Also, it's most likely more the operator (pedal stomper, more like) than the material as far as the condition of the tires.
This
i cant really tell but those tires they just put on were michelins? that can be the first trick you show your dad jozzie, the trick tireman is talking about, way easier and, faster than using a jack. i bet he already knows it though. do you guys run the 27s through the winter? do you run them with the centerbit dropped?
Yeah, pretty sure they are. I had to leave before I got a chance to see them on it but thats what we talked about putting on. I dont think we'll ever figure out how to mount the tires, just one of those jobs we would rather outsource We run them in the winter when we can, much of that depends obviously on the weather and what kind of material we are working in, just like anything else. Most winters the ground gets to hard. This last winter was pretty good, we had them out fairly early spring developing land for farmers, mostly filling in valleys for new pivots to go on, and yes the center bits are dropped. The one with the new tires got new bits on it this spring. Thats "dads machine". He gets all the nice shiney things.
I'm with tireman, that is a scary site. I'm wondering, while inflating the tire where was the tire tech at? Those tires have a huge danger area (kill zone). Congrats, on the machines and the tires.
I wish I could have been there to see it done! Unfortunately I'm a little ignorant on the technique. Thank you sir!
I cant tell you how mad i get when i see 2 pushpull units out there self loading! I thinks its just a waiste of money. But i LOVE running 27's i would rahter run a 627g, then the brand new 2012 D6 i just got. Running push pull is a lost art around here, you cant find guys that know how to do it anymore. Andnobody knows how to do it fast, company used to work for had 14 637's and 16 627's and if you and your partner didnt get over 125 loads a piece they would fire you after 3 days. Best we ever did was 442 together.
This idea was a learning experience for me when I signed on with a larger outfit this last summer, just for a different experience. The company I worked for basically had adopted a run the **** out of it attitude, and I quote from my boss "drive it like you stole it". This was tough for me to do since A: I'm not a big fan of being hard on equipment like that, and B: The industry is hard enough on your body with all of the variables you can't control (IE random injuries) without also putting yourself through injuries that you CAN control (IE, NOT running the equipment like a maniac, and not having your back go out on you). My boss also put a huge emphasis on the push-pulling. And by huge, I mean if my partner had to stop for a few minutes, everything I had been taught growing up running machinery was just to not stop. So, I would go grab a load by myself. My boss would rather have had me sit there and wait than go be productive. This blew my mind. But, like I said, I wanted to see how other companies did things. Being able to push - pull isn't the end all be all of operating that machine. It still all comes down to making your cuts and fills correct and as efficiently and safe as possible. It is unarguably a great tool in the right areas, but I would take an operator that knew how to be a self sufficient self-load capable individual over a "push-pull expert" any day of the week hands down. It's all about priorities. Where I come from, we will go a little slower to take care of the machines. Bigger (non owner-operator) companies will put priority on yards/hour, so they will allow room for what I would call borderline careless operating.
27's are tough machines. Ran them for about 5 years and only thing we ever broke were a few bails here and there, but we were always push pulling, down to the last tenth, are scrapers were set up for GPS. How is it careless operating? We built areselfs a haul road. I think self loading is harder on the machine then push pulling, and when you push pullin you can load both the scrapers in the same amount of time it would take you to load by yourself. We would never run without a partner, and if one scraper went down, we would run triples! Now that is fun, but you got to have a good guy running middle to do it
Obviously they're tough, they are painted yellow. I didnt say push pulling was careless operating. I said bigger companies put priority on yards/hour, which opens the door for it. (Like I said, my bosses exact words were "drive it like you stole it") - Not how we would -ever- run anything we have. I also said it has its place. I didn't completely write it off. I find it amazing that none of you ol timer operators can fathom loading one of those machines solo. The machine weighs 40 tons and has 700 some horsepower, there's no reason it can't load itself if the situation calls for it. Not to mention, as far as wear and tear goes, push pulling is much harder on the neck than self loading, and that isn't even debatable. There are unlimited amounts of situations that you can put machines in, some require different techniques than what some would deem "commonly practiced", depending on what kind of a company you have worked for. Some jobs we are on there is no such thing as a haul road, as the project is continuously evolving. There is no "one path" you take day in and day out. The way we do things is entirely different from how your large 40 scraper spreads operate. I'm talking about 5 owner operators in the whole company, thats it. Things will be done differently. The same rules don't apply.
Yair . . . jossie2000. Well said. You may have noticed my occasional comments about the 'production at any cost' mentality on other threads. A couple of teamed up owner-operators push pulling with those later 27's would be a sweet deal and will shift a lot of dirt . . . I found not so good in dry sand. Our ultimate sand machine was the Wabco 333 elevator with the 12v-71 front and back. Actually if you had good operators the old J621's did pretty well in blow sand . . . it was surprising. Cheers.
the bottom line is the same though, dirt moved pays the bills, if you can move enough dirt to pay all your bills thats what counts. im a firm believer in push pulling, i do it everyday, ive seen people overload and abuse machines to where they needed to be rebuilt from the neck down, ive seen machines pushpull for thousands of hours by some one who operated them, with minimal downtime. cat makes push pull scrapers to push pull.
Nice to have another Nebraskan who's also a scraper guy here. I live on the east side of the state, and run some hot rodded B's.. all our 621B's and 627B's have 3406's installed up front and since the boss just bought 5 brand new 25 year old scraper bowls (ex-military) I think they will be moving dirt for a good long while yet. The HP advantage of the E's and F's without all the damn electronics. Maybe you ought to call my company about selling that B.. they are always looking for others. Google JC Excavation in Kennard, Nebraska. Owner John Camden, they might be interested. As far as non PP units, they are handy if you ever have to go slope diving.. harder to get the nose stuck in the ground at the bottom! Welcome to the forum! Alan627b
The one job we had loading sand with push pulls, we found the way that worked best was to hook 3 of them up.. 1 alone jumped around too much, it was still a problem with 2, but put 3 together and it worked like a charm. Put a hook and guard back on the non PP unit, assuming it has the extended pushblock.. use it as the lead. Granted, our sand was wet.. I'm thinking it would still suck in dry sand. Just a thought, Jozzie. As for tires, stay away from Yohohama's.. what a hard riding tire to have mounted right under your seat. Wear like iron but ride like it too. Don't ask how I know... Alan
Oh my, a repowered B would be a hell of a machine if you can find someone that will bounce their head off of the ceiling on one all day. Thats the problem anymore, nobody really wants to run that old stuff, and if one ****s a transmission out, you better plan on keeping it for life, because you won't ever get your money back fixing it. I'll keep the reference in mind. As far as the sand goes, it takes an awful long cut to get away with putting 3 627s together, and when you are building something in both the cut and the fill, not necessarily an option every time. The problem with the sand is when the tires spin into the material once, everyone is screwed. It isn't possible to really "hunker down" and really gouge out a cut. The real strategy is to keep both machines moving at what can best be described as the optimal ground speed relative to how fast you are loading - which in sand means you take more time getting loaded, just so you CAN get a full load. As soon as one of the push pull machines tires spin, the whole thing is screwed. The point is to keep moving, and you can get away with it. Most of the time, we have a pushcat on site, so we just get pushed and call it good. Also alan, I don't think they made a B model that didn't ride like iron, good tires or no.
im sorry jossie but it really sounds like your new to the whole push pullin thing. Take long for 3 27's hooked up to load??? Have you ever ran triples before? I agree 110% with alan, we ran triples down in the mississippi river bottoms in pure sand, and we could load all 3 of them with a good size load in about 30 seconds. 12 wheel drive amd 1500hp is alot more traction and power then a little 8 behind you. And i am no old timer im younger then you think. How is push pullin hard on your neck? Sounds like someone is doing something wrong.
Ok. I would type out yet another well thought out comprehensive post but everything you write makes me lose faith in humanity. We come from two different backgrounds of knowing how to do things. I don't know it all, but I have worked for a couple guys for a lot of years that -do-. Leave it at that, young guy.
Remember, to run a balls out production with little regard for the true bottom line, just the production numbers, hire the young guys while they still know it all. Once we grow a grey hair or 2, we seem to forget a lot of those things, and focus on how to do it with respect to the true costs of how the iron gets treated. Jozzie, you have some nice looking rigs there, and with a small company like you seem to be a part of, they will stay that way a long time.
I dont know how many times ppl have said something about age having to do with this job, i have seen guys that have been moving dirt for 40 years and probably know as much now as they did when they started, and ive seen guys that have been doing it for a a few years that could make most of the older guys look like rookies. Its not about how long you have been doing it in all scenarios, when it comes to operating you either got it or you DONT!!! Simple as that. PLZ tell me how running push pull hurts your neck? Ive never once complained about my neck hurting after spending all day push pullin, but i had a good partner, if you tag up while in motion you shouldnt even feel him hit you, and if he slides the bail just right you shouldnt feel him start cutting. 27's are very expensive machines to run, thats why alot of companies are getting rid of them around this area. That and they cant find anyone that knows how to run push pull, and that can haul enuff loads to cover the cost of the machine.
I was referring to the neck of the machine. The age was more an expression of speech, however your grammar and typing skills themselves would make anyone think you around 70 (no offense to any 70 year olds that are more proficient than our mr. vapor here) . I just made the post to share some stuff about our company, the machines and how we operate. If you don't agree, or don't have any reading comprehension, I would appreciate if you would check some of the other ones out.
It's not like there was an abundance of outfits with 627's in this area in the first place. Only a handful running them that I ever saw,DKG having had by far the biggest lot of them. I personally never saw a spread with more than 3 besides them.
I can see Jozzie's point about wear on scraper necks, especially if the push-pullers are "cowboys" who lack smoothness, or if the hitch isn't in good shape. If the lead guy is a yahoo who tries to hit high gear the instant the load is off, it wouldn't be tough to break parts. And make sure the trunnion balls on the draft arms are in good shape... don't sak how I know.. L When we triple loaded, we didn't have an extremely long cut, and we didn't "Hack for China" either.. we were loading out of a borrow around Valmont in Valley to build a bridge approach over the UP tracks. One scraper alone would jump around too much, and it was still a problem with 2.. especially since all the diff locks were disconnected... putting 3 together made loading easier, probably for the reason Jozzie stated.. it allowed you to keep moving and load smoothly. I was tail end charlie since my machine had a bail but no hook.. I could get a monster load if I wanted without having to hack a crater. We had 6 hooked together once, and that's too much.. things happened entirely too fast for my liking, and if something goes wrong you can't stop the train fast enough. 3 stringing (my term) can also be done differently.. 2 can start loading while the third manouvers to hook on, 2nd guy leaves his bail up or cuts the lead loose once he's loaded and the remaining 2 load in conventional push pull fashion. I did that in Kansas with 2 637G's and a 637E. Worked pretty slick. Again, it depends on cut length and depth to make it work. Sometimes you have to self load but even then, it can go much faster if the team works together. Skipping a few feet between passes (especially in sand) makes a nice windrow for the next guy to pick up.. and hopefully he does the same for you. Jozzie, how far west are you? The sandhills area?
Yeah, I have done a little of this. There were a few guys that had been there much longer than me that hadn't figured out the "let the first guy go" technique - really no point in pushing and pulling that middle guy Yeah, north central.
Kolb had a bunch of 27's and 37's now they have none. Berra back in the day had a bunch of 37's and 27's, now i know they have 4 27g's and a pair of 37g's. Budrovich had 4 27g's but sold them a few years back. Ralph Jones had 4 27F's, 2 27E's and 2 B's but they went under. Bloomsdale still has 4 37's idk how many 27's they have. I cant think of the name of the one outfit starts with an H there a smaller outfit with much older equipment and they still have 8 27's but no work. Seimke has 4 F's but no work. Thats all you used to see in STL, now they have all went to AG tractors because there cheaper to run, and almost anybody can do it.
Yeah we always left 2-3 feet in between are cuts, i think its the fastest way to load and keep ur cut level. When we ran triples we would always let the lead guy go before the 3rd scraper set in just in case if we hit a rock or something it would rip the bail off the scraper. That and it gave the lead scraper enuff time to go dump and drag the haul road down
Yair . . . vapor300 I have seen that said before and can't quite see how skill levels would be that much different on an Ag. tractor . . . particularly with multiple pans. Could you (or anyone) explain? Cheers
Hi, I hate to get in the middle of your guys pis**** match about push/pulling but can someone explain how a scraper on a jack is unstable? I understand that the neck allows side to side movement but i cant see it falling over from jacking it up to do tire work. There is something here Im missing Im sure but I just dont see it. Thanks
Nice machines, good to see people take pride in their equipment. My quick thoughts on the push pull debate: Most of us are production minded because most jobs are by the yard or contract and the way to get the most out of those scrapers is to team up= more profit. If you are working by the hour or by the day and not by the yard the loss in production does not really hurt the end profit in fact the job lasts longer and you may see more profit by not maxing out production. Those jobs are rare here, we almost always are on contract so full loads and good haul roads are important.
auger Not trying to be smart arse but these are awesome in the sand, and dont have to worry about push pulling. :cool2
Nailed it pete. Most of our jobs don't last more than a week or so. Also, we've been around for 4 generations in a small town, established reputation of doing honest work. Most of the guys we work for just take us out in the pickup and show us what they want, say send me a bill, and leave. Its not the corporate structure most people here are used to. Its 1 hired guy, my dad, grandpa, uncle, and sometimes cousin. Oregon96...really not a debate going on. Just a guy that's done things a certain way his whole life that cant imagine he isn't 100% right about everything I'm not sure exactly what they are getting at either. There is no possible forward and backward movement I don't think, I suppose they are worried about it rocking side to side. If you get it jacked up or set up on blocks the right way though, I don't know. I wasn't there. Maybe tireman can elaborate a little bit for us.
Hi Brainze. I got to run a near new 621G auger in Arizona in 2008, in fine grained soil.. it worked pretty well but I wanted that second engine! My impression was the auger needed more power.. I can't see how it would work in the heavy clay and sticky soils we have here in the Midwest though. One good thing about 627 auger scrapers.. they usually have the big six (3406 opposed to 3306) up front which is a nice power booast. My employers have installed 3406's in our whole fleet.. makes a real difference believe me. Interesting how the exhaust exits in the center of the hood.. I thought the exit was to the rear like the B models have. Maybe my memory is a bit fuzzy.. Alan
Scrub puller They are fairly easy to run, matter of fact most of them can be setup to autoload where the tractor loads all 3 pans for you. And they are nearly impossible to turn over, so thats another hazrd you dont have to worry about. Ive ran an MT865 and 965, john deere 9630, and a quad 450. puling 2-3 pans and loading the first pan easy 2nd pan a little harder and 3rd is pretty tricky, but i dont think its near as hard as running push pull
Yair . . . Gocha, vapour300 . That autoload sounds neat. How fast can you run those jiggers on the haul and how do they ride? Cheers.
That one used to jam the auger up in real sticky stuff but they turn the pressure up on the auger and it was never a problem after that. If it got real sticky and wet they would pull the auger out and use it as an open bowl, still worked alright just had a little bit left in the bowl cos of the shape of the tail gate. When I was working there they only had a 27 e and f with augers and I think they had four or 5 37`s with augers, mainly put up stock piles of a mix of different clays and rubbly stuff for brick. And the 2 smaller ones at the time went out to work with other contractors and private jobs in victoria mainly around Melbourne. I think they have 2 or 3 more 27 augers now and one or 2 of those are G`s. I liked the auger alot cos the there was no or very little dust compared to an elevator and alot quieter, plus having the apron there obviously kept the haul road cleaner.
Actualy they are all different quad is 22mph loaded, MT 24 loaded and deere 25 loaded, we had a job where we had quad 450, deere 9630 and mt865, (the quad was a serious underdog, i dont know how a 600 series would do) And had a mile haul if all 3 pulled out of the cut at the same time with a decent load the quad would have the lead thru the first few gears until the MT and deere would catch it and pass it then the deere and cat stayed riht with each other. Out of all 3 deere was the worst ride. Cat has a good ride, but the quad was a cadillac. But where the quad KILLED the competition was in the mud, with one man those things will go anywhere a widepad 6 will. We did a levee job years back and the quads were loading in slop and water 2ft deep.
I believe that Jozzie works in some sand called Valentine sand. If you never worked in it, you will get a lesson no matter how much experience you have. It's super fine and you have to really pay attention.St. Louis area has some different applications for scrapers than our particular area. In alot of Nebraska areas the ag tractors don't work so well. Crawling out of pits and high balling isn't the greatest thing. We have 2 Challengers that we usually use to clean up and do the lite stuff behind the 27's. Production wise in our area and the type of work we do it's pretty difficult for them to compete just because of the conditions.
when i worked on the road outside gering, 71 i think we hit a sandbar left over from an ancient river that ran through there, pure sand, i definitely learned a trick or two from the nebraska boys on that job, i really never got the hang of that stuff, frusterating for sure. Very first day got sent up to the sand cut, pulled in like i owned the place stepped on the brakes, to get off and get the scoop, Dennis Geisman chewed my ass up and down 'NEVER USE YOUR BRAKES' he was right i went to leave and was stuck '
Is that valentine sand, very similar or the same as wind blown sand or dune sand ?
Similar.
The best way I can figure out to describe it is think about the difference in stability between a bicycle and a unicycle.A bicycle can only fall to one side or the other, but a unicycle can fall in any direction. Since there is only one axle you're not just jacking a "corner". Add to that the fact that scraper front ends are unbalanced(with the engine on one side and not in the middle) and you have a very unstable unit. I have seen on several occasions where one has just fallen over.The very first time I was ever sent out on an OTR service call, my "teacher" had a 657 jacked up(right front) and the tire off, and while we were examining the tire-free of the machine-the damn thing fell. At the time all we had was an old 50 ton manual jack and some blocks.Needless to say, it took a hell of a long time to get that SOB back up-yours truly doing most of the work. I myself knocked one over in my early years,and that was the last time I ever jacked one without turning it first. There is just too much room for movement in the neck, and it doesn't take much at all when all that weight is sitting on such a small surface.Turn one full lock, and it's not going anywhere,assuming of course that the person jacking it is even semi-competent to be doing so.
Excuse My ignorance there tireman but on a twin engine cant you just lift the tractor up on the bowl hydraulics and save a lot of labour ? single power open bowls will only lift the back wheels of the ground unless they`ve got a bit of a load in them.
Yair . . . D9 blade on top of push block and a couple of sleepers under the cutting edge works good too! LOL. Cheers.
the hyd, will only lift the can off the ground on twins too, thats where you need a dozer pushing down on the stinger, like scrubpuller said, or push pull setups can use one behind the unit getting tires, the back scraper hooks on, the first one pushes the can down sometimes full ram if a tire is flat, then the back scraper slowly backs up a couple of feet rocking the first scraper back on its cutting edges bringing its front off the ground. ive showd a couple tire guys that trick, seasoned tiremen i might add, just were never around pp setups, saving them from jacking the front end up, almost like showing them how to start a fire or the wheel or something of that magnitude.
Any scraper with down pressure in the bowl cylinders is able to lift ONE of it's own front tires off the ground by itself without another piece of equipment in sight, let alone holding down the tail. It's called neck-blocking, and I described in detail how it's done on another thread in this section. I don't have time at the moment to link to it, but if no-one else has by this evening I will. Load in the bowl or not, no scraper will lift it's own front end completely off the ground(without the tail being held down by another machine). PERIOD.
Below is the link to the detailed description of neck-blocking a scraper. HeavyEquipmentForums
Now that would be something to see. Someone get a video of that.
Ive seen tireman do it a few times, on my scraper, when i first watched him push some blocks in the cushion hitch i was kinda confused. Have you guys been doing any work in stl tireman??? Kolb just picked up 2 huge jobs in Indiana, one is 4 million yards half rock half dirt, the other is 7.3 million yards and only a million of it is dirt, the rest is limestone
Hey vapor, did you see that pic of my old truck and the 637E on the link,just down from the explanation? That's on the very beginning of the Winghaven job, summer '98. The trailer in the background was sitting on Hwy K. I saw you and your brother in the old green Chevy(Dave's old truck) pickup with your dad out there one of the first times I met your dad.I haven't done tires for a few years, but I'm seriously considering getting back into it. Tried too long to get into 513 w/no luck. Almost got in back then-Doug Jr. was gonna help me out but work slowed too much in election year. Anyways, where in Indiana are the jobs Kolb got? My buddy who took over my job at Cross when I left and is still doing it tells me he hardly does anything for Kolb anymore.Says all the work they do is out of state. I used to do at least 6K a month in labor at 57.50 an hour for them back in the day,when they had 30 some-odd scrapers plus all the other rubber-tired stuff they had.
i think you tire guys are too serious, i didnt know you could get enough space in there to get your block in, without the added height you get by pushing on the backend, just never seen it done
lol yeah we were really young then. They picked up 2 sections of I-69 around bloomington, and they have to have the 11 million yards moved in a year an a half, so im willing to bet that they are getting ready to purchase a big hoe and some more 775's, they just bought 2 775's last year. Me my brother and my old man had an interview with Jeff in Feb. But these 2 jobs are the biggest they have ever done with a very strict deadline. And they left 60 million dollars on the table on this job they got today.
That's why you have to turn the tractor almost half way-to make room for the block.It can only be done if both fronts are inflated. Once one tire is down-if you can't get it aired up-you can't do it. As far as being too serious, tell that to the boss who wants the scraper hauling dirt instead of being worked on-let alone having TWO machines tied up over one tire change. They seem to favor a man who can get the job done FAST as well as safe and right the first time. I always took pride in my work and strove to be the best at it. I'm not sure that "too serious" applies to such a danger filled occupation, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No offense intended or taken.
LMAO yeah i could see how well that conversation would go over. "Hey im going to need that other 27 to come over here and hook on to this one so i can change the tire"