I am pulling a tranny on a truck for the first time ever the clutch has an issue it's on a 99 Mack RD688S. Any pointers or is there something else to engine, clutch or tranny I should do? I have a pit in shop I'm doing it over that I put a track or rail in when we did the concrete work and i already made a lift to put in a diff on another truck and was planning on adapting it to pull the tranny so if I can lower the tranny low enough will I be able to pull it with out pulling the shift lever? The shaft is on the tranny and then goes into the clutch right? So how long is that shaft? As thick as the clutch? Do you just get a clutch from any truck parts supplier or is there one that's recommended?
You'll need to pull the shifter. Don't lose the little springs under the cover. I'm not sure which shaft you're referring to. Pull shifter, drop the driveline, mark and remove air lines, unhook speedo, cooler lines if equipped. Remove clutch linkage, remove rear crossmember if equipped. Support on jack, remove bellhosing bolts. The shaft running through the bellhousing that operates the throwout bearing should turn enough as you come out to disengage from the throwout bearing. Clutch itself is HEAVY. You'll need something to help support it. As far as sources for the clutch you can go dealer, parts house, clutch ad brake rebuilder etc.
I've never done one from a pit, I've got a antique version of this walker jack, I just ratchet strap the transmission to the plate with a block of wood for the slope of the bottom of the transmission (eaton). If its a mack transmission, those have a real V bottom, and you may have to make a funky bracket / cradle. You'll need at least 10" or so of rearward movement to clear the clutch. Other than that- just what junkyard said- he types faster than me.
I can take pics in the morning but this tranny has a flat bottom besides the pto. So to pull the shifter pull the 4 bolts and watch for the springs and it will come out? Does it slip into a ball or slot or is there a way it has to come in or out?
There's an obvious spot for the end of the shifter you'll see once you pull it. It's hard to get it together wrong, but not impossible. Biggest thing on detent springs is depending on whether or not the gasket comes with shift tower. It's not like they're huge and shoot you through the roof, just pesky little buggars that are easy to lose. It'll lift straight up more or less. Depending on which trans you may have a couple small air lines to unhook. Be sure to mark them or take pics. It'll save ya later!
I like to put it in gear before pulling the shifter it makes it easier to turn the output shaft to align the splines going back in the shifter will go back in just fine I make a cover plate out of plywood or cardboard and bolt it back over the hole Dont be afraid to pull up the floor plate around the shifter it makes it a lot easier than working all from the bottom although I have never done one standing up you will need a pilot bearing get a grease drop hose kit if your truck doesnt already have it on the throwout bearing so you dont have to push the pedal to grease You will need a clutch brake also a clutch line up tool good time to change trans oil All can be got a good truck shop sometimes the Mack dealer is quite competitive on price and less chance of the wrong parts
Myself, if you don't have a lot of room to move the trans back, I like to unbolt the clutch an push it back on the input shaft and pull it off a piece at a time after lowering the trans, whole lot easier on your back. Then just stack the new clutch back on the shaft and bolt it up after the trans is back in the truck.
There are times I do the same. Depends on what it's in etc. I've built all kinds of tools over the years for lifting and alignment etc. Even have a vast selection of covers for shifters and PTO's as well as old input shafts.
Yep, really depends on the case at hand.
First timer leaving it on the trans is probably the best bet. Going back together too.
Like said above remove the eight clutch bolts going through the inspection cover opening and drop the clutch with the transmission. You will only have pull the trans back three inches to gain clearance. Install in reverse. Are the rear engine mounts on the transmission bell or the engine flywheel housing? Truck Shop
We have the flywheel turned every time we put a new clutch in a truck. I don't know if it is common practice to have it turned every time. I can remember two times that I didn't have the flywheel turned and both times the trannys had to come back out and have them turned. Just my $.02
The rear mounts are on the tranny. I kinda was thinking I could just run a 2" rachet strap under the rear of the engine or is there a better way?
Here is some pictures it is an Eaton and I believe it's a 9 speed
Personally I would be spooked doing that job in a pit but that's just me. That looks like a RTX series 9 or 10 speed, it's an early case because it has the large fill plug. You will have to jack that engine to clear the rear mounts then safety chain it from one rail to another, unless there is a overhead hoist directly over that pit. Truck Shop
Man, I sure don't miss doing that stuff anymore!
I just would not do that over the pit. I prefer to do those on a slab with the front tires on 6X6's. Bottle jack with a 2X4 under the flywheel housing. Block between the frame and the engine on both sides after you jack it up. Put the jack up under the PTO but centered under the transmission. Bolt a piece of steel to the upper RH PTO cover bolts and a piece of big angle, like a frame rail section, to the jack. Then weld them together. In a jam I have cut a piece pipe a bit wider than the frame. It should be 2 1/2- 3 inches in diameter. Center it above the transmission. Remove the top plate bolts in front and in back of the pipe on both sides. Cut two pieces of 1/4 - 3/16? inch chain just long enough to go over the pipe and about 1 1/2 inches above the bolt holes. Install bolts with flat washers just long enough to start in the threads good. Then screw all four of them in equally about one inch. Use channel locks on the pipe moving the transmission while rolling the pipe. Never saw one fall but never never ever get under it. You may thank that is scary but I will take it over your pit deal any day.
My shop partner and started this last Monday morning on a Series 60 rear structure reseal. We R & R-ed the left fuel tank, air tank, transmission, flywheel, oil pan and flywheel housing/rear structure. Replaced rear main seal resealed the housing to block, replaced out put seal on trans, clutch, clutch brake and pilot, installed surfaced flywheel and replaced rear mounts and flex pipe from turbo. Then we installed a reman Eaton DS 404 front drive plus two torque arms. Steam cleaned everything while it was out.----------We finished yesterday at 1:00 PM. I start work at 6:00 AM. Plus Serviced Four tractors and two trailer in that time span. Including draining a fuel tank and removing it plus the air tank then the transmission that only takes us a little over 1 hr. Working on creepers. Truck Shop
Truck Shop; that is real nice and professional work but in my case doing one, maybe two clutches every two years makes the job new each time. Got to remember how I lifted it last time, where are the eye bolts I made, where did the pilot shaft go, oh I forgot I have to fix all the air lines again before I get it back together and the dang 966B is broke again and another dump truck died in the pit and now the boss wants a brake job done on his pickup and the parts just showed up for the D8H and they just stranded the ejector line on the Letourneau scraper and the pump on the wash plant quit putting out water and on and on and on and on infinitum.
Well that's when I tell everyone to take a number or get in line. I deal with 52 company tractors and 90 company trailers. Truck Shop
Letourneau scraper??? What have you got there?
Used to have to work on a fleet of rolling junk.
Here's some pics I took for another guy on here of how I jack those up. I usually put the truck up on Budd rims and work from creepers.
In case you can't tell, that's a piece of 1/2" plate bolted on top of the jack, a piece of 6x6 about 18-24" long crossways behind the PTO, and a short block beside it. The PTO is holding up the other front corner, and there's 2 good ratchet straps across the whole thing.
Personally I drain the gear box and remove the six fasteners and drop the PTO then put a spare cover back on to stop the drips. It just doesn't take that long plus most PTO's leak so that needs to be resealed anyway. I want the transmission setting directly on the jack plate. Got a friend minus some parts to his hand from doing that same job some years ago. JMHO Truck Shop
I strap and block a lot like mitch504 does, and remove the gearbox like truck shop says, I find its easier with it out of the way. I would have a hard time doing that over the pit, I'm not sure how you're moving the transmission to line it back up and push/pull it back and forth.
This is how I pulled a big differential in a floater truck and I'm making a different plate to attach to the tranny
Talk about thinking out of the box. Now that is fancy.
That is pretty nice, you'll have to build quite a plate to hold the transmission.
Nice setup! I think I am stealing that idea as our new shop has a 50' long pit also!
This one is only 15' as the boss didn't want to take up too much room but I wish it was 20' at least or I need to redesign my lift. 50' for trucks would be very nice. Did you put rails in the sides?
No rails in yet. I will take some photos tomorrow as we are moving in this weekend.
Like these
If you concocted that and made it a reality what are you askin us for? lol that's pretty slick!
I like to learn as much as I can before I start a project so I know what to expect and also understand better how it comes apart! Also if it's something I haven't done before I like to look at it and then have some time to think about it.
Floater?
Ha buddy! Your front tires are on backwards.
This one I'm working on is a Mack RD688s that we just put bar tread tires on. The guys say it will go thru a lot so far we have the regular steer tires on it but was supposed to get 445 tires for the front yet to. We also have a floater truck like you pictured and also like is in attached photo that we put a tank on that will go thru a lot don't know if we hardly ever have got it stuck. The newer floater trucks have planetary rear axle and ours don't so have blown up the rear end in ours quite a few times.
Nope! Read on the side of a motorgrader tire. Arrow one way for powered tire, other way for unpowered. That kind of tread works like a ratchet, the rear tires grip the dirt good to push the truck forward; the front tires, the dirt grips the tire good to keep it rolling. That truck goes until the front tires stop turning, soon as that happens, you only have a few feet to get on solid ground. In 32 years of spreading, I've tried it both ways, and reversed fronts really work better. We ate up a bunch of 17,000 lb IH 2-speed rears, once I started running the 23,000 rears, I've had no rear end problems. I run IH 2375s with 23k rears, low-hole 9spds, and 300hp L10s. That pic is actually of one I wore out a few years ago, I am still running the same specs, though.
Aww come on, most of us know what the tranny looks like, I want to see more pictures of the plate you made, and if it worked well. That's quite the pit. Steel tracks, lights, electric and air, all right there in the pit. Got stairs to get up and down in too? How about a drain hole or sump in the corner? I've been known to be messy at times and I've always wondered how that would be in a pit. The truth is most of us are a little envious of that set up, I know I'm impressed. Someone put a lot of thought into that. I feel pretty good that I get to work on concrete, and sometimes even in the building. I've done some of that out in the dirt, and that adds a whole different set of issues, to say nothing of wind rain or snow.
I think I see the problem with that clutch, the throwout bearing fell apart!
I've worked in shops with a pit sometimes it's good but most of the time not so good. Good way to brake a leg. Make sure and keep it covered-insurance companies just love those. right along with osha and l & I. Truck Shop
Yeah someone forgot to grease it, surprised it didn't pull through the snap ring before that. Truck Shop
Yes sir the balls were all laying in the bottom of bearing case. Since it's just a throw out bearing do you get a new one and put it back together or replace clutch to while I got it apart
I guess with the pit/ no pit, its whatever you're used to. I could see that being really nice for greasing undercarriage, and adjusting brakes. I could see it being a pain for the job he's doing right now. If he has to dive into that transmission, you'd have to drag the truck off the pit, pull the trans off the jack, then swap/fix it, put it back on the jack. Unless the jack goes high enough to work on it right on the jack, but then you'd have to put the cover back on the pit. I know I'd loose some important part and it would roll under the cover and to the bottom of the pit. Then once you had the trans fixed, you have to drop it in the pit, roll the truck back over, and then install. If you use the same jack to install the clutch, where do you set the transmission down at? Otherwise you're installing it over your head, or probably putting it on the transmission first. I'll admit, I've never installed the clutch on the transmission first, I've always put it on the engine first, but I haven't done near the number of clutches that some of these guys have. I've rarely taken a transmission off where I haven't just gone ahead and done the clutch, unless I was just there a year ago and replaced it. You can pull the clutch and inspect it for wear, and look at the flywheel. If you're fixing it to sell it, just do the throwout bearing, if you're keeping it for 5 years and need it, I'd spend the $ and do the clutch while I was there.
That's a Spicer Angle Spring clutch, the throw-out bearing is part of the pressure plate assembly. Sure if you are trying to save a buck one could probably buy just the throw-out bearing and not take the clutch out but don't think I would try that unless I had an old one sitting there and was going to trade off the truck next week.
Like I said above 99% of the time I would say replace the complete clutch. If the truck was abused enough to cause the bearing to fail I would wonder how bad the other parts are. OH! by the way when you order the new clutch assembly don't forget to get a new pilot bearing that goes in the flywheel. If you don't know how to properly adjust an "Angle Spring" clutch let us know and we can walk you through it or maybe even find a link to a manual on it. Sometimes the new clutch will come with instructions.
Can you even replace that bearing in the truck? I know it has to be pressed on while the pressure plate is compressed. Can you buy the bearing anywhere? I had one come apart once less than 6 months and 10,000 miles. I tried everything to find one, but I wasn't going to put in a used bearing. Pulling the tranny is too much work and downtime to save $500.
For way more information than you might need here is a link to the Eaton manual for Heavy Duty Clutches. It is a big fill so it take a couple minutes to down load! It is around 125 pages long! http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/group...roadranger/documents/content/rr_clsm-0200.pdf
Replace that clutch with a Eaton 208925-20 clutch rated for 1850 torque, six paddle easy pedal. Use the two piece Babcock SB200 pin type clutch brake it's the best one out there. Install the clutch loaded in the transmission. Truck Shop
I thank 6 cylinder engines normally stop at one of three places. If the engine has not been turned install the pressure plate with the adjuster at the bottom. Then it should be easy to find for adjusting in the future. Mark a reference spot on the flywheel before removing it. That makes for quick and easy installation.
Usually when I do a clutch adjustment I find a reference point and mark the balancer with a paint pen using a "CL" mark. Easier to just line it up with the appropriate turning tool and be done with it with out the 2 man "bump it" method. But then I see the same trucks over and over.
That is a good idea! Heavy duty Snap-On remote starter button and a sliding Matco tool that holds the clutch down are often my second person.
Ok not meaning to hijack but, since you brought up the clutch brake Truck Stop, I had to cut out my factory one in a 2005 KW900. It was wore out. I replaced it with the hinged style, TRP I think. About once a year it breaks the little ears off the inside. Is the babcock better in that way. I have not tried that brand before. Ya I know don't push the pedal down all the way while you are still rolling. Would you not use the factory one since he has the trans out?
Thanks for the input I did go on YouTube and watched clutch adjustment videos by Eaton. Thanks for the manual. I am going to go ahead and replace clutch this water truck gets pushed by a soil stabilizer/reclaimer and sometimes the truck has to pull and the clutch gets slipped .
What about the cracks on flywheel? Are those stress cracks or bad flywheel?
Heat cracks from slipping. So long as do not propagate to an edge should be alright. Could get it refaced but the dark spots are now hard spots and will forever chatter once heated again.
still learn'n: That is a neat looking set up but I question some things. I prefer a larger fixture under the transmission that allows adjustment of tilt front to back and side to side. Also being able to move side to side can be beneficial at times. Maybe you have some of that and I just can't see it in the pictures. I am sure you will work it out. Keep us posted.
The SB200 is easy to change just give it a blast with a torch where the pins are and it will fall out. That is a common problem with the hinge type clutch brakes, it's normal to find them laying in the bell housing-junk. Truck Shop
No I quick built this hoist and I didn't put that in it but I need to change it.
Does this look right? I had a remote grease hose and I guess it won't work the fork is right in the way so have to push the clutch in to grease it?
Looks fine grease hose has to come off the top with 2 elbows Mack has a kit But I wouldn't take it back apart just get a stick to hold the clutch down
Thats what i was thinking I would do thanks
I thank the old school Mack way was the elbows and fittings off the top. Someone figured out to put a grease fitting directly into the bottom of the through out bearing. Yes your have to have the pedal depressed to grease it but I will never do it any other way again. It is possible to work through that hole and remove the fork. Turn the throughout bearing and replace all that over the top grease assembly without removing the transmission. Just use what you have. It is an improvement.
I was just picking at him. None powered steers tend to roll better in mud instead of push mud and sink that way. Possibly wear better as well. I could care less about the wear when I am stuck.