On a D3G LGP 2005 Cat dozer (BYR01003), I was inspecting the rollers and noticed that there is only one flange on some of the rollers. In some cases the same roller on the other track has both flanges. I assume the flange is worn off. If that is the case, do these rollers need to be replaced?
Not the case. Any tractor has a mixture of single-flange and double flange rollers on the track frames to correctly guide the track. Your D3G should have 4 single flange and 2 double flange rollers on each side of the tractor. The double flange rollers will most likely be the front and rear ones.
Thanks. You are correct.
Inyati13 - All Cats have a factory specified arrangement for roller placement. Most Cats have a mixture of double flange and single flange track rollers. The double flange rollers improve track chain alignment and location - but they're more expensive, so usually a mixed selection of double and single flange rollers is used. Some Cat excavators use all single flange track rollers only. All Cat crawler tractors use a mixture of double and single flange. Some tractor owners will place single flange rollers where a double flange is specified, or vice versa. This is usually carried out as a "stop-gap", "will-fit", or "nothing-else-available", move. The Cat single and double flange roller specified arrangement is best followed, because Cat have done their research on the best placement of rollers. It's rare to have a rear double flange roller in front of the sprocket, as the inner flange can come into contact with the sprocket teeth, and cause damage to both. The D3 has to have a single flange roller at the rear. Here is the scan from the Custom Track Service handbook that shows the correct positioning for rollers, for a wide range of Cat models, up to about 1980. http://i48.tinypic.com/2vru1a8.jpg
Yair . . . I was interested to see Nige's comment (post #2). Like OzDozer mentions, I always ran single flange on the lead and trail and if possible doubles to keep things nice and straight down the centre. Cheers.
Oops, my error in the advice above was, I forgot to check the differences between the D3G and the earlier D3's. The D3G uses 6 rollers, not 5 - so the track roller positioning would be - D, S, D, S, D, S.
Flange on rollers? Yeah Scrub, same thought I had in mind, seems to work good... :cool2 OCR
Here is what I remember from looking at what is there on my D3G, yesterday in the shop. From front to back, S, D, S, S, D, S. Now, one of the flanges was missing on the left side track at the 5th roller back where there is a double flange roller. Does that roller need to be replaced or what?
Are you saying that there's a double flange roller there, that is missing an inner flange? Well, no, it doesn't need to be replaced urgently - but it would warrant inspection as to why the flange has disappeared. Does it appear as if it's broken away from the roller shell? A couple of pics would be good. A missing flange seems to me to indicate faulty roller shell construction, as it seems unlikely any side impact would rip off the flange. The track roller layout is unusual, but it could be the recommended Cat sequence. I don't have any really late model Cat undercarriage information.
In my earlier comment about placement of the double-flange rollers, I didn't have my brain 100% in gear. I should have said "towards" the front and rear. Your arrangement sounds "standard" apart from the 5th roller on one side which is apparently a single flange roller where there should be a double. Can you see any sign of what might have been an inner flange on this roller..? If not then someone has likely done what OzDozer mentioned and replaced a damaged double flange roller with a single because (delete as appropriate) it was cheaper/"will fit"/DF roller wasn't available. If you want to avoid track snaking at the back of the chain run, especially if the link/rail pins & bushes are a tad worn, then that roller really needs to be replaced with a DF.
Our dozers do alot of slope work, sideways on a slope. It puts alot of strain on the flanges as you can imagine. We have flanges wear off and depending on the roller location, sometimes we keep running the machine and just keep an eye on them. Part of the problem in replacing new rollers into an old group is the uneven wear and stress induced to the track as the one roller is now supporting more weight (due to being larger in diameter) than the adjacent rollers. Not much of an issue in soft underfoot, but on hard ground it's another story. Before replacing rollers, we always inspect the entire group for wear, and make a judgement accordingly. On machines that have a floating bogie system rollers are always replaced as needed. On the fixed frame dozers, there is more to be concerned with. P.S. On the above, the flanges that wear off are the outer flange, odd as it seems, the inner flanges always seem to survive. heh
This is getting good. I rechecked today. From front to back it is indeed S, D, S, S, D, S. On the left trackside, the 5th roller back (which is a double flange) has a flange wore off. And as Mjrdudee1 noted, I have been doing a lot of sideways work on steep slopes during the last 1000 hours. If you picture that there are four total flanges on a double flange roller, then the second one in from the outside is missing. I can tell that it was there and has been worn off as you can see it is not even like a single flange roller. On the right trackside, I noticed today that the same flange on the roller that is a mate to the worn one on the left side is about half worn off. I am not familiar with the floating bogie system, does a Cat D3G LGP 2005, BYR01003 have that system?
Your tractor is too small for suspended bogie undercarriage, so at least you don't have that to worry about. If the flange is worn off on one roller and partially worn off on another in the #5 position on both sides I would contact your local Cat Dealer and ask them if you can have a Custom Track Service Inspection & report for your tractor. The service is free and if you give the salesman the impression you're planning doing an undercarriage overhaul and that he might well get the business he'll be round your place like a rat up a drainpipe .............!! Once you have a report detailing the wear percentages of each of the individual undercarriage components post the results here. I think you are going to find that you have worn track links, pins, and/or bushes, a snaking track due to pin/bush wear will take rollers out quick style. For dozers doing steep side slope work most/all of the time I would seriously consider replacing more of the single flange centre rollers with double flange to take some of the weight off the flanges. Something like S, D, D, D, D, S on a 6-roller track frame like you have. On an 8-roller frame you might go S, D, S, D, D, S, D, S.
Thanks, Nige. I will contact Whayne. Thanks to all. I will post the findings.
Just be cautious when substituting double flange rollers where singles are called for. On some tractors there are clearance issues with other parts of the undercarriage. I recall an instance on a D-8K where one roller, I believe it was the third from the back, was originally a single, and got a double in its place. It squeaked a while, then the bearing went out and the inner flange rubbed through the recoil spring until it broke. What a mess!
your right jerry,idid the same thing replaced a single with a double.just as well i hade to replace the trac ajuster seals and found it before it started to cut into the spring housing. and changing out a new roller with old will not last long on hard surface. had one replaced one day, and after two hours you could'nt touch it.
Good point Jerry, hadn't considered that. On suspended bogie undercarriage it's not an issue, but on rigid frame-style undercarriage I can see where it might be.
Hello, I've only newly come across this forum. I LOVE you guys. Living and working in the heavy machinery industry Middle East makes it very difficult to find such sources of information. THANK YOU!
Hey, I realized this is an old post, but figured Id add my $0.02 for anyone looking for said information. Just doing some rollers on a 8K today, and sure enough a double flange will not fit in the center position. There are 7 rollers and the one smack in the middle won’t clear the track tensioner cylinder body. I only noticed because the roller wouldn’t go up enough and it locked up solid, couldn’t turn it anymore. This particular machine has single flange on each end and the center, the rest were double flange. Just out of curiosity, how do y’all change these rollers with no way to raise the machine? Bottle jacks? With a blade and a ripper its easy, but what if you didn’t have that? Say on a pipelayer? Im lucky, in the yard we have a 594H pipelayer to lift the 583k’s Im working on at the moment, but what if I didn’t have such luxury? Lol. Im thinking jacks and blocking?
Either way you have to block it up. Still not an easy task if (when) you break a bolt off because the guy in there before you didn't use anti-seize. I take it you don't have any rock guards in your way. Takes a bit of effort to get the new roller up when you get the old one out.
Yeah, nothing easy about wrestling those heavy pigs around. I do infact have a broken bolt right now in one of them I gotta deal with now. No, no rock guards on this ol girl, and like I said earlier, its nice having the 594 available to lift the 583. I can lift it and lower it as easy as pulling the joy stick. In Fact it can lift the 583 from the opposite side boomed way out with ease. But without it, it would be a whole other story!
What do you use to remove/install the rollers once you have the machine blocked up.?
I lift it up, enough so my impact can fit in there, remove 2 bolts on each, and loosen the other 2. (One on each side) Set it back down and remove the bolts and then back up, high enough to clear the rollers, then I just yarded them out by brute force, lol. I used a skid steer to set them back up on the track and basically reverse the process, lower it back down until the bolts reach. (After cleaning and prepping everything first obviously)
There is a nifty tool that you can fab up. Looks like a 2-pronged fork with a lifting eye close to the roller and a long handle on the other side of the eye with a T-bar on the end. You can then walk the roller into place. The only downside is that it is a 2-man job. The illustration below is not that clear but it should give you the idea.
This will give you an idea of scale.
Hope you have access to a small mag drill to drill a center hole in the bolt.
Got that ugly broke off beeyotch outta there! It was a undertaking but its out. It broke at a goofy angle plus the threads were all mangled for the first few. Just put a steel sleeve in the hole after using a burr to clean and prep everything, and filled it up with 7018, about an inch deep, then a 7/8 washer and Nut. Then let it cool down. Then heated it until it confessed to being a pain in my azz. It actually came out not “too” terribly bad. Ie: still a 30” ratchet, squirty oil and a tiny bit of praying.
Dam! Might have to make me one of those forkin dealy’s! That would be slick actually.
Good deal. She's a good looking machine.
D8 and D9 conventional bottom rollers are the monsters of nightmares,aswell as D8 transmission belly guards and sump removal in D342’s.I actually think D353 sumps are easier.
taking the engine oil sump off this D342, with the engine in place would be a nightmare! Jeesh.