Thought maybe there was some folks that had spent time in the 977l and then moved to newer machines. My 977l is going to be a farm machine(if I keep it). I want to dig up some somewhat soft limestone with it. Small stuff for roads big stuff for retaining walls. I just retired at 55. I have quite a bit of work on my place. I found this 1973 977L with a 4 in 1 for $8500 looks great. engine very good. I am trying to figure out if it would be a good machine to keep for the next 20 years or plan on getting a 963 or 973 latter. Shawn
Couple of thoughts/questions. 1. Approximately how many hours per year will the machine be required to work..? 2. What sort of price would you be looking at in your area over and above the $8500 for which you could get the 977L to "update" to a later model 963/973 if you went that route..? 3. Considering the later model track loaders are hydrostatic drive and contain much more in the way of electronics (therefore quite complex from a repair standpoint compared to a 977L) what level of maintenance ability do you have to keep the higher-technology machine running..? 4. Are you planning on keeping whatever machine you buy until it falls apart or would you be selling it on at some point..?
1. I would guess 300 or so. 2. It would cost $10,000 or more. 3. My skills are good with mechanical stuff. I had heard that the A and B series machines didn't have the computers and sensors. If they did have that kind of stuff it would be a deal breaker. I want to do the fixing myself for the most part. 4. I would like to keep the machine till it would not be cost effective to fix it.
I'm not so familiar on the earlier models of rear-engined track loaders - I thought they were pretty much all the same regarding electronics. Maybe someone else here with experience on them knows differently. Either way the hydrostat will be a pain (and cost major $) however it is controlled if it ever goes wrong. Someone commented that at $8500 the 977L was a steal. Are you certain you could get an early 963/973 for about $2k more..? That doesn't sound right to me, but if it's true it sounds like folks don't like the early models of the rear engine loaders.
I ment the upgrade would cost $18,000 total. I have heard if the hydrostatic pump fails it could be $8000 not including labor! Also in most cases Cat keeps selling parts for these once popular machines. Also there are allot of parts machines in boneyards. If those things stay true you could fix most things reasonably.
For something like a 977L there are a plethora of independent parts distributors outside the Cat system who will sell both genuine and "will fit" parts at a fraction of the Cat dealer price. One of them is Off Road Equipment who have supplied a number of HEF members. They are not a million miles away from you .......... http://www.offroadeq.com/
Thanks for another good contact for parts Nige! I like the fact they just specialize in Cat parts. One of the reasons I bought this Machine is they made allot of them! Shawn
You're right. A and B machines were mechanical. C series and later have a 'pooter. Surprisingly, parts availability for early C series machines can be worse that for the earlier models.
CM - A & B machines still have a Hystat drive though, right...? I know you've posted on numerous thread regarding their diagnosis and rebuilding. Other than the electronic powertrain controls on the C I would imagine the hystat is the major bugbear for most owner operators, (if it goes wrong I mean) correct..?
Yep. They're all hydrostatic. All things considered, I don't think there's much to choose from reliability-wise between the mechanical and electronic control machines. With careful ownership they're all pretty good. The problem with the HPCU in the "A" and B series is that it's unique to that machine (as far as as I know). Troubleshooting requires a fairly comprehensive, (expensive) set of pressure gauges and some knowledge of how the system works. Or a fairly comprehensive, (expensive) set of pressure gauges, shop manual, time, skill and patience to teach yourself how it works. If someone is fixing a C or later series machine, they will need all of the above except a instead of a fairly comprehensive, (expensive) set of pressure gauges they'll need ET and a less comprehensive (cheaper) set of pressure gauges.
As to the OP, a 977L or K with a GP(General Purpose) bucket is a really handy machine just heavy and hard to get hauled or to maneuver in tight spots but will uproot a good sized tree with little issue. I have a MP bucket or 'Multi-Purpose' also known as a 4/1, does a decent job but is also heavy and cumbersome at times but a benefit as to moving trees and wads of brush where you can use the clamshell action to hold the stuff. My old machine is no where near to the same level as a 977 but does me well, wish I had a larger unit some days grateful when I have to work on it I don't.
Someday I may regret it but.... I love big machines! Not what they use in fuel and cost of parts though. I worked as a machinist/Millwright in a power plant till now. Lots of big machines to fix. I have a J.D. 450C T.L. thats an overgrown skid steer. Good for tight spots light work. Works great for plowing snow off the trails in winter, as long as they aren't iced over
I have a 977l that I use quite often and for large scale brush and Really large trees and its a beast of a machine. It has worked beside a d6r and even a d7h and always seemed to have the upper hand at dealing with the big stuff mainly because of its reach. Anyways it's always been a very good machine with almost no problems at all, it just keeps going. If you found a machine that's in good shape that has a good engine trans and u/c for 8500$ I'd say jump on it, heck I payed 25,000$ for mine. Here's a couple pics of doing what she does best.
upgrade would cost $18,000 total for 973!! possible....
Nice pictures P.D., are you using a 4 in 1 clam bucket on your 977l? I already bought this machine new pads and sprocket segments chain is shot. $3800 for a new set. I'm not in a hurry, just had my retirement party yesterday. I would love to find a parts machine! Shawn
Best I can tell the 977L has the same pitch as a D7E,F,G(38L) but one link more is the same pitch as a 973(40L) but one link less at 39L 8.5Pitch.
Actually it's a 8 inch pitch 41 link I think.
I need to check my undercarriage service manual, then I'll tell you for certain what other models run similar chains, even if the number of links is different.
No I just have a heavy duty general purpose bucket with very large teeth on it. Works really well after pushing large trees over then back up and hook into the root ball to give it a lift and drop. Sure does knock a whole lot more dirt off in the hole and less clean up.
There were the earlier 977L series 11K that had 8.0 41L rail, series 14X, 64X, 95X, 48J and 70J were supposed to have 8.5. The 8.0 would also fit 977E,H,K, D7 and D7C series tractors but with length differences. With teeth a GP can still roll up a felled tree and support it to a pile.
I'm looking at loaders in the 943 range and not finding many with 4in1 buckets. What does it take in $$ and effort to add hydraulics and such to one? Is it worth it or should I just focus on getting one that is already set up? Thanks...
The use of a MP (multipurpose or 4/1) bucket seems to have become a oddity in the late 90's. Many suppliers added them on at point of sale while some manufacturers built them off the shelf. Cat I believe was the previous while Deere/Liebherr, Case the latter. Have seen Cats with MP buckets in prominence in CA, WA and other west coast states, many Mil Spec units had MP buckets but around here they are scarce as hens teeth while Deere 555G, 755, Case 855, 1155 with a few odd others came on the lots with them. Does take specialized control valve body, tubing run the length of the loader arm(hose gets cut up by rails) and counter weight to counteract the added bucket weight. Can figure the bucket is two times the weight of a GP minimum as has a lot of structure. May end up working thru salvage yards to pick up odd pieces and then are talking serious cash if have to approach a dealer for those items unable to find used.
There used to be a great video on Youtube of an old International Drott with a 4 in 1 that shows all the great ways to use them. Use it with the clam wide open and tipped all the way forward so it was like a box scraper or coming up to the pile and clamping it into the bucket so the pile doesn't get pushed forward. It seems they call the video private and its gone. Wish I had a copy for you Skid S it was a smaller track loader like 10 ton. Shawn
I'd stick with the 977. I've spent a lot of time on one, and there's nothing like the brute force of that machine. Did a lot of clearing, grading, and working in rock with it. Spent some time on the newer machines and I own a 955. Never been on anything that handled those big oak stumps like that 77. I like the older machines. They're not as fast, but I think they have more power. And I prefer the power shift over the hydro. Just my opinion.
I've found several 943s with MP buckets on Machinery Trader and one locally. Year model and hours are all over the place. Wondering if anyone has insight into the various year models pros and cons. SS
This should be helpful: http://tractors.wikia.com/wiki/Caterpillar_943_Crawler_Loader Looks to be of limited number, could be a parts acquisition mess, possibly why the numbers for sale.
Correct. The 8" pitch chains (41 links) did not have a split master link, the 8.5" pitch chains do. Parts are still available for both, and various other models share the same rails whichever option the machine might happen to have. IMO the 8.5" pitch rails (39 links) are the better option though, they have more meat in the links, pins, & bushes.
Can someone tell me the year and any other info about the following 943... Serial number 19Z00832 Thanks, SS
French-built LGP machine. 1988 manufacture.
Thanks Nige...the seller claims that it's a 1990, but I thought the number looked a little low. SS
Going look at this 943 to use to clear my land in the rocky Texas hill country. It's a 10K hour machine, what items would you guys pay particular attentions to? He tells me that the undercarriage will need work soon. What about engine, transmission and hydraulics? What would you look or feel for when operating? anything else? Thanks, SS
No better than to look at CMark's advice on Page 1 of this thread TBH.
You can't tell if one of these is OK just by looking and shunting it around a dealer's yard. You have to get it onto a decent piece of ground and if there's something to dig into, all the better. I won't go into the engine, that's just the usual basic diesel engine stuff. This is only to check out the tranny. Get it running and warm and do the following; Engine on high idle and move the FNR very slowly to both forward and reverse and see if one track starts moving before the other. If so, that's a problem. Moving at medium slow speed, push one of the steering pedals slightly. Machine should start to turn with both tracks still driving. Push the pedal further and the inner track should stop. Push it to the floor and it should start to counterrotate. Try this in F&R, L&R. If it doesn't do any of the above, that's a problem. Move to about half throttle and repeat the tests. If it behaves differently, that's a problem. Do the following all with the governor control at high idle. Move the FNR to full speed. How fast does it go? If you've never driven one before, it's only going to be a subjective test, but as a guideline if you think "ho hum, here we go" then there's a problem. If you think "Jaysus, that's fast for a tracked machine!" it's probably OK. Repeat the above steering tests. Does the engine seem to bog down excessively at full speed? Problem. Lift the bucket a little and sight the crowd cylinder in line with an object in the distance, 50 yards or more away. The further the better. Start traveling to the object. It should travel in a straight line. Go into reverse. It should follow the track marks you've just made fairly well. Repeat the test at full speed. Does the machine veer off to one side more than a couple of feet.If so, that's a problem. Travelling at full speed, slam the FNR into neutral. Does the machine pull up straight or lurch to one side? If it does, problem. If you haven't already, put the seat belt on and repeat using the centre brake pedal. Travelling at full speed, drive into a (soft) pile of dirt. As the tracks begin to come under load, the engine should lug a little then stabilize at a fairly high RPM. Once the machine can't move forward any more, the tracks should continue to spin slowly with the engine revving happily away. If the engine bogs down or you have to move the FNR away from full to prevent the engine from stalling, That's a problem. Work the bucket to load up the front of the tractor. The tracks will slow down some as the engine starts to supply power to the hydraulics, but you should have to dig in pretty hard to make the tracks stall, especially if you're on worn-out three bar pads. Try and find a hill. Park on it then set off. The machine shouldn't roll back any. Good luck.
Much Thanks Cmark! This is good stuff. The loader is at a job site, so I should be able to perform these exercises. I've run a few dozers and skid steers, just needed to know if there is anything unique to focus on on a track loader. Thanks Again... SS
SS I've heard the 943 is real nice machine, but they are talking about finishing, and working in tight places. If you are taking down large trees or digging down through very rocky ground. Bigger is sometimes better. Shawn
The trees I'm dealing with come up fairly easy. I like the versatility of this size machine and it's more mobile with my equipment. Let's see if I can do an upload....Here's one I'm going inspect in the morning...
Sheet metal isn't in bad shape. I don't know how they adjust track tension on these, so I can't guess on how the track is. I looked on www.ritchiewiki.com they give specs. on most machines they made these from 1980 to 1992. about 5900 total. I would say check with the cat dealer on parts. Check machinery trader for the number of scrapers that have donner machines. The 953 they still make and its not that much bigger. If the links aren't all worn out, and it was taken fair care of you may get allot of hours out of it. Shawn
Someone has had the transmission out. You can tell by the dent in the roof. Check the tilt cylinder rod for chrome missing on the top!
All good things to consider Cmark and Shawn. Would the missing chrome be a sign of something other than heavy use? This one claims to have ~11k hours Funny, I've noticed several with the roof dent and wondered what they had in common...now I know. Do these share parts with any Cats that are still in production? Thanks, SS
Yup - rocks coming over the back of the bucket ............an indication of the type of operator that's been running it.
Given what y'all see and assuming that it passes Cmark's post #33 test, would $15K be a good price for this machine? I know there are still plenty of unknowns, but give your best estimate... Thanks, SS
Yes, the missing chrome would be due to someone who doesn't know what they're doing lifting the platform right over and slamming the roof into the crowd cylinder.
I bought my John Deere 450C for $8,500 at an auction. I knew one of the guys who ran it. Its a 1978 but they made allot of them. They redid the top end of the motor, and a recent UC under carriage. Yours would be a better machine. I have seen a 973 go for $15k at auction, allot depends on how worn things are. Take some close ups of the UC. Get one looking up at the chain bushings at an angle going forward. Pull the oil fill plug. Allot of air blowing out, rings are going bad. Shawn
Does the owner have a service record? If has been serviced by a local dealer or service company then there should be receipts and a hours map of when it was serviced and what was done at prescribed times. Does he have the OE manuals that came with the machine? That would be a plus on both accounts. If it was serviced by a local contractor or shop they will also have a customer file or at least should have for the machine.
Checked it out yesterday. Started fine, no smoke. Bucket curl made a terrible popping noise, probably binding up where it had been patched/welded and was still out of alignment. Tracked OK at low speed, drifted ~2 feet forward and reverse. Slow response when moving from stop to slow to high speed. Did spin the tracks under load. Shoes in fairly good shape with plenty of life on the grousers. Pins worn in a strange way. Rollers in good shape. Multiple welds in the bucket..loose teeth. Leakage around the oil filter. Significant blowby out of the oil fill spout.... Not sure it's one I want to pursue given my limited knowledge and ability to do heavy maintenance and repairs...and no documentation of maintenance/repair history Thanks Again Cmark for the tips operation & inspection tips.... SS
How do you mean worn in a strange way? By the looks of the yard it was in was a rock crawler for a long time. Loose teeth and bad bucket repairs can be attended to but the blowby, potential trans issues and noises from the bucket, pretty much a deal breaker as to longevity in the machine.
Apparently this owner picked it up as part of a package deal and does not know much about its background...I'll keep looking.
Probably a good choice SS, as for me I'm going to keep the 977L. Hopefully it's cheaper to keep her. Any of you that run the newer machines, feel free to have your say on my choice. Shawn
Wow! That's really good advice Cmark. Wish I had done these tests before I bought my 973 2 years ago. Required it for the same pupose, limestone aggregate mining and tree clearing. My mechanic and I have been struggling to get it to go as before. For the short time it worked it was more than capable in the quarry, digging, loading haulage trucks , stockpiling 4 ton+ boulders.