Hi guys. I just made a deal on a Ford 4500 TLB from a farmer that parked it 6 years ago and hasn't touched it since. He tells me it ran and operated well without problems prior to parking it. Now I have to get it transported to my house and get it operable again. I am looking for advice on getting it ready for transport and then what the best practice will be in getting it started. The hauler wants me to chain the boom up tight to the tractor and I want to know if there will be any problems with the hydraulics if I just try and use a come along to move the boom and chain it up tight. Also, the stabilizers are in the down position so same question there. I am thinking about changing out the fluids and filters, putting in a new battery and going from there. What advise can you give me? should be a 740 FEL and the boom has evidence of once having 755 decals on it. It is also a torque converter model
I would try to start it before moving it, then once it's home, start it again to warm up the fluids, then drain everything you want to change right away. First check the fluid levels: oil, coolant, hydraulic, transmission and fuel. Then check the drain plug on each for water, back it out till the oil seeps out and you're good to go, if water seeps out, then drain, flush and refill before starting. Not a bad idea to make sure the air filter is intact, not chewed up and full of acorns. If there is a fuel primer pump, pump it until you get clean fuel with no air bubbles coming out of the vent you loosened on the filter or injection pump. Keep the injection pump turned off (wire disconnected or just left off) and crank it for ten seconds/ wait two minutes until you get oil pressure, then turn the pump on and see if it starts. I'd bring a good battery, good jumper cables/charger, tools to clean battery cable connections, hammer handle to rap the starter... If you can move the hydraulics with a come along, you won't be doing any damage. Not sure if the stabilizers will come up or if there are "check valves" in the circuits? or how heavy the backhoe boom is compared to your come alongs? Don't forget to measure that backhoe boom height before you hit a bridge or take out electrical lines.
very good advice! I have 4 ton come alongs
I would bring my fluids and filters and try to start it with a good battery, I have gone after a lot of machines and drained the water out the drain plugs topped off lubes and brought them home. The only issue with chaining up the boom is trailer height while hauling 13' 6 " in nc, and the loading angle for the trailer so the bucket and stick will clear. Like said a good come along goes a long way.
I have looked up the fluids and read about the UTF specs so I am clear or that part, not really clear on what engine oil to run. Manual calls for a DS 10, 20 or 30W depending on temp. I am guessing that the Rotella 15-40W will be just fine.
Good advice. I would add that you also want to drain the fuel tank, flush it a little and put fresh fuel in before you start. A fuel tank sitting that long will more than likely have algae and rust. Get some extra fuel filters as you will need them. Check your air filter as Delmer stated, I would have a new one on hand and installed before I started it as cheap insurance. Any good 15W-40 will work in our environment for engine oil.
not off to a good start. The backhoe was delivered yesterday and I spent some time vacuuming out nests and then pressure washing. I grabbed a new 31 battery and wanted to see if it would turn over. The bendix was stuck so a kept rapping on it to see if it would engage. It finally did and it does not spin the motor at all. I grabbed my good jumper cables and pickup to see if that would help at all. It hasn't. This morning I pulled 2 of the 3 injectors and see it that would relieve compression and get it spinning. No such luck, even with jumper cables on. So I am low on ideas at this point. I have the water pump/alternator belt off just in case they are part of the problem. What else could be keeping this from spinning over? Seized front hydraulic pump? I did notice my truck would bog down when I tried to start the hoe. The battery cables on the hoe got hot FAST. Do I just have a junk starter?
I wouldn't try the electric starter system again until you are assured the motor will spin free - wouldn't want to fry it. I know it is basic, but it is in neutral, right? Can you get a bar in the crankshaft somewhere to spin it, or break it free? Can you get a socket on a flywheel? Take a picture of the front motor area if able. Pull with truck to attempt to "bump start" or bump the engine free.....???
it's a torque converter transmission. I have the gear selector in neutral and I can't say for sure if the other lever is in forward or neutral. I am trying not to force it since I don't know what damage that might do. I pulled the starter to take a look and found a big nest behind the flywheel. Cleaned it out with the shop vac but I have no Idea how the little guys got in there in the first place!
Well, the torque converter shouldn't be holding you up much I "think" I have heard of some guys here using a pry bar on the ring gear (after the starter was removed) to turn the engine over one small tooth at a time. Needless to say be very careful to not break a tooth off. Can you get a pry bar on anything of the crankshaft up front?
Pretty tight up there and the only thing I might be able to get on to would be the front shaft to the hydraulic pump. I am going to see if the pry bar on the ring gear will work
Pry bar on the ring gear didn't do much. Pry bar through the front universal didn't do much either. I and wondering if some water might have gotten down the muffler and stuck the pistons or something.
I would take the exhaust manifold off next to see if there is contamination from water - ie rust. And/or take pump off front so you can get a good grip on the crank and hopefully get it to move. If it is rusted (piston/cyl bore) you would probably do more damage by getting it started and running than by just taking it down and cleaning it up - repair & replace as necessary. Others might recommend something else, this road (dealing with stuck motor) is well travelled by experienced mechanics.
Is there a borescope available ? 1) Take off the top engine cover to see if the valves go up and down 2) Take out injectors, small tube through injector hole and soak top of pistons with engine oil. 3) Take starter motor to auto-electricians to check how well it works on test rig. Ignition key can also be faulty and not allow full flow of electricity. 4) Check battery clamps are not cracked. Battery earth lead should be earthed on bottom bolt that holds on the starter motor. -Very likely pistons can be seized in bore, or valves seized, even with a shower cap muffler as the wind in storms opens shower cap and lets in water, Check hydraulic valves are in neutral position when trying to start.
remove the injectors and put 3 or 4 teaspoons of diesel down each injector hole this can help free rhe rings and piston from bore and letbsoak for a day or so then as others have suggested get a bar onto crank and try rocking back and forward
Yes been there, bought one at a golf course with a 8" pine growing up between the loader and battery door, tried the starter, pulled the starter, pried on the ring gear, pump drive shaft no engine turning. Pulled the head on the spot and had a cylinder full of water, took the water off, soaked it with pb blaster and marvel for an hour, rapped a chain around the engine, cut a 4x4 block, installed a 7 ton bottle jack on top and eased it down, honed the bore, washed it out, put the head and old gasket back on, fired it up, and drove it out from the dump area that day. Had to use the backhoe to dig my way out. It is likely their is water on the piston if it has been sitting that long and stuck, I have bought several as is with the same findings if they ran when parked and not had the muffler covered. This one had steering issues with the casting cracked at the linkage under the pump. I don't waste a lot of time with them, snatch the head, the gasket is cheaper than another starter/fly wheel tooth replacement. Keep us up on your findings !
LOL I love that ingenuity! So I have gotten deeper into this thing and it is full of water and foulness that came in through the exhaust. I pulled the manifold and it is rough! By rough, I mean it looks like mud and heavy sediment in the manifold and the exhaust ports. The rear 2 cylinders got it bad, I don't know if the front cylinder was effected. I think it sat at enough of an angle that the water never made it into there. I pulled the valve cover and tapped on all the valves the exhaust valves on the rear 2 are hanging. At this point I am sure I will have to remove the head and go from there. Might have to use the sheepfoot method
head is off, #3 is probably a lost cause is it possible to drop the oil pan on this 4500 and swap out a new piston?
double post
I have a 68 4500 and somebody told me that the front axle mount casting would have to be loosened up to allow the oil pan to be removed
A light honing and a new head gasket and she should be up and running! I've seen much worse run.
well that sounds encouraging
I have been soaking the cylinders for about 2 weeks now. Last week I set up a bottle jack in the worst cylinder and tried to get it to budge. Nothing. I have let it sit with pressure on it for over a week now. The piston has a lot of erosion and it will have to be replaced. The bore is likely junk and boring or sleeving is probably in order. I think it is time to yank the engine out. I have no fear of splitting it but I would really like some input on how to manage the 2 pieces once they are separated. Since this is not mobile I will have to do this where it sits in my yard.
have tried removing the starter,,,,,,,,,,,,, sometimes the starter drive has spun out and not returned to its resting place and blocking the engine from turning worth a try
the starter has been out. Flywheel doesn't budge. The pistons aren't budging with a bottle jack on them. I will probably have to break the piston to get it out and then start the machine work
Looks like a fun little project. At least it had green antifreeze and not plain water.
I have avoided doing any work to this for the last 3 weeks but it's got to get done. The FEL is down and I need to raise it out of the way to be able to split the front end off. Since there is no hydraulic power, how can I raise and support the FEL while I split it? I know that we had tried to release pressure on the bucket during transport but it didn't move. I don't know if the valves and hydraulic circuit work differently than the hoe. I was able to move the hoe around usung another tractor and then relieving pressure with the control sticks.
pulled the front bucket and was able to jack the FEL nice and high using my engine crane. I cut blocks of 2X10 to use for blocking when the hydraulics creep down. I am going to try to get the front end separated tomorrow. From there it should be very easy to get the engine out, torn down and to the machine shop.
It's bad when you have a piston all the way down to make it bust loose and turn the crank, make sure you look when taking the engine block loose from the front casting for shims between them, may look like thin washers, note for the reinstalling of engine. May get a surprise after its out and pan is off if you can pull the rod caps and bump it from the lower end and get it moving. Looks like my bring home projects, cut your axle wedges and have your cribbing ready to support the front casting, it can get away from you in a hurry if your not ready.
I have been following your progress on your backhoe for a little while. I have a ford 5500 backhoe that I just got done tearing completely down to nothing. It has a leaking transmission, so I had to pull the hoe, the cab, and the loader so I could fit it in my garage to work on a hard surface. When you get the motor pulled out of your machine take a look at the torque converter as long as your that far into it. The 5500 were known for transmission leaks, I'm not sure about the 4500's. I'm still waiting to hear from brockhouse on transmission parts. I hope you have better luck than I'm having with my machine. I had a lot of fun taking it a part , my wife said she couldn't see what was so fun about getting really dirty. They just don't understand. Good luck with your project.
Good advice,I think.
Front axle is off! There were no shims. I took the radiator and shroud off to get some better access and make it a little easier to move around. Going to take the rad to get hot tanked and pressure tested while its out
If you have not done it, you might want to put some hose clamps around your cylinder rod and that 2x4 just in case. Somebody said on this forum that you can get hurt worse on machines you feel the most comfortable working on. That statement really makes you stop and think about safety.
Engine is out! Took off the rod caps and tried to get the pistons to budge. No luck but I did not get too aggressive. Bearings looked very nice but its still going to get a full rebuild Found a hell of a nest behind the torque converter! Does anyone know what this line is? Is this supposed to be routed down through this hole?
Looking at a parts book for the 4500, it says its for checking pressure in the tranny. If you don't have a parts book and have a smart phone there is an app you can get that will show you a parts layout and part numbers
A block of wood and a BFH took care of the 3 rough pistons. Off to the machine shop for a bath, new sleeves and a fresh set of bearings!
The bad news is that the head has a crack in it and the crank is too pitted to grind. The good news is that I was able to get a crank and head online
Rotating assembly is done
Bolted the motor in last night
Great progress...thanks for all the pictures, looking good!!!! Look's like you're going to have a nice machine there!!! Keep giving us updates and more pictures...did you find out about that copper tube?
Good job so far keep the pictures coming. I would sand blast and reprime every thing but thats me:drinkup LOOKS GOOD
I would sandblast and paint if it was parked in an area other than my yard. Sometime in the future I would like to clean it all up. Black Beauty is murder on grass
Got it started today but it didn't want to stay running. Cranks and starts easily, revs begin to climb and then it dies. This all happens over about a 5 second period. I can crank it over for a long time immediately after this happens and it will not attempt to fire. If I wait about 10 seconds, I can get it to fire up again as described originally. I am sure this is a fuel issue but not 100% sure how to fix it. I am wondering if it has a fuel flow issue, clogged line, junk in the tank shutoff? It reminds me of an old Cougar I had with a plugged carb filter. It would run fine for a while but sputter and die. If I gave it enough time to refill the carb float it would run again. Yes, I have new filters installed and bled the filters, pump and I *think I have the injectors bled. Advice?
You're on the right track. I'd hook up a temporary tank (even a jug of fuel) to the transfer pump and then work my way back until it repeats the problem.
Drained the tank, lots of crud. Flushed it out and put in a few gallons of fresh fuel. Cleaned the junk out of the petcock screen, bled the system from beginning to end... IT'S ALIVE!!!
It's running great and I am busy fixing the little things that need to be fixed. I have some small leaks, missing or loose bolts and the backhoe controls were rusted solid. I ended up rebuilding the control shafts with 1/2" zinc plated steel rod and 1/2" X 5/8" X 1-1/8" bronze bushings from Lowes. I reamed out the controls levers slightly and installed the bushings, slipped the rod through and got everything working. I then noticed the lower shaft had worn and had a lot of play in it. I ended up doing the same procedure and everything seems to be working great! I did pop a hose for the bucket and am struggling to get it apart. Looks like some home welding had been done on the boom and I can't get a wrench on one end of the fitting. I'll figure it out eventually.
On a side note, the hydraulics seem to be strong
That is one of the best things about a Ford 4500!
Hey, nice to see you breathing new life into that Ford. I'd be lost without mine! Good luck with her!
Got the damn fitting loose after a lot of cutting and swearing
Now I hope you are going to add a nipple to that fitting so you can avoid cursing and wrench throwing when you go to re-install that new hose. Looks good so far! The water district that I work for still has a 72 or 73 triple nickel as a back up machine. I just love how those non turbo motors sound, only has 8500 hours on it, now she is a yard queen. We use it to load concrete and asphalt into 20 yard containers once a week. I will say the valve bank is nice and broken in, it has 4 stick ford backhoe controls. It was real easy to learn a new pattern on this machine because I didn't need to muscle the levers. Our new cat a 2000 416IT has ford controls and it is annoying.
I got the new hoses on and everything works great now. The next challenge is the swing pins and bushings, they are toast and I don't want to run it like this. Looked up the parts and got sticker shock. There is no way that I will ever spend $900 for 2 pins and 2 bushings on a 40 year old backhoe. I looked around online and made some calls for aftermarket replacements but either nobody could get them or they had been discontinued. I know many of you will recommend going to a machine shop and I would agree that this sounds like a good idea. The problem I have right now is that I just moved to this area and have no contacts or leads right now. Does anyone in the Charlotte or Asheville areas have recommendations? swing bushing #7701559 $192.00ea swing pin 2.5” X 7” #7706732 $239.71ea
Possible sources for you from a google search: http://www.paintvalleyequipment.com...ins-and-bushings-bearings-seals-misc-hardware http://www.ryanmfg.com/ and do a search here on HEF, the topic has been discussed more than a few times. No shortage of opinions on what is best either: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...k-occassional-pin-job-farm-heavy-equip-97953/
The local machine shop asked me to bring the backhoe by so they could give me an estimate. Seeing as they are only about 2 miles from me, I decided to drive it over. Now I don't expect this to be a race car but it barely wanted to pull 4th gear on flat road. 3rd gear uphill was also not too good. Is this normal or do I have some stuff to look at and adjust. I don't know if the pump is adjusted properly so maybe you can let me know. I see a stamped mark close to the head of the bolt and also a scratched mark that I assume someone else had made. Which mark do you think I should I use? I think this is supposed to be set at zero but I don't know which mark I should use.
I didn't see in any of your posts what the pump #'s were..so I don't know if its a "clockwise or counter clockwise" pump.. It "looks like" either your pump is 1* retarded OR 1* advanced..it doesn't take much to move it..a 1/2" wrench on 3 bolts..loosen the 3 and twist the pump to the other side of the line..and re-tighten. if no improvement..put'er back to 0*.. good luck..TPG
I had an old David Brown that got stuck , we removed the rocker cover and poured diesel through the whole thing, let it soak, drained it, replaced the oil, gave the valve springs a couple of taps, and it loosened up and turned over. Diesel seems to be better than oil, for freeing up things.
Well, it's been a while since I last updated this thread so I figured that I would share some new info. The top swing bushing was completely worn out and since it had been replaced and welding in, I had to grind it out. Come to find out that they never bothered to drill a grease channel through the new bushing. No wonder it wore out! I got a generic hardened bushing online and welded it in place, got a used pin and assembled. It wasn't until that point that I found the swing post casting was egged out bad. The whole assembly had to be removed and brought the machine shop. They indexed the center line, bored it over and made up a sleeve. Got it almost all back together yesterday. Just need to hook up the swing chain and bleed all of the air out of the hydraulics.
Sounds like it's going to dig some dirt soon, they can need some work when you find those older fords, but make a good machine, nice project!.
It will not take much of a incline to have to drop a gear, 4th is flat land and down hill.
At some point before I connected the swing chain, the swing cylinders were actuated and both cylinder retracted. I need to get them out far enough to reconnect the swing chain. Can anyone recommend a good method to get the swing cylinders to pull back out? I have tried to pressurize the vent lines but I only have 100psi available. I could barely get one cylinder to move. I have not tried the other cylinder. Do I need to actuate the controls to help? I just tried to use a come a long from the bucket to pull it out but I didn't notice it working. All it did was swing boom.
The pressure is on the rod ends, I would unhook the crossover line and remove the line at the barrel end to pull them out, you will loose some oil so have the drip pan handy.
I like that idea. I will give it a shot tomorrow. Thanks!
All good to go! It took some swearing and I sacrificed some blood to make it happen but I was able to get the swing cylinders extended enough to reconnect the swing chains. I loosened the lines at the combination valve, attached the rod ends to a come along and got one out far. Couldn't get the other line loose so I attached the swing chain to the cylinder I could reach. With the boom off the ground I was able to swing the boom far enough by hand to connect the other chain. With the vent line still off I just worked the controls a few time and all of the slack was taken up. Just need to attach the vent line and make sure everything is ready to dig!
Time for some fresh paint
View attachment 108272 View attachment 108273
Looking good!
Looks good, now you need to go dig something.
Found plenty of stumps to dig out. This one was a beast!