Hi, new to the board and in need of some help. I have an old Ford 550 3 cylinder backhoe and just had the injection pump rebuilt. When I went to reinstall the pump I noticed that the pump drive gear is not properly lined up with the main gear on the front of the engine (the pump gear has a “3” and a “4” stamped into it, and in this case the “3” should line up with the dot on the main gear). They are not even close but there is no way to un-mesh them to correct this. No matter how I move the pump gear within the housing, I can’t un-mesh it from the main gear. I assume I have to pull apart the front cover of the engine to realign the marks, but if they cannot be un-meshed without taking off the front cover, then how did they ever get that way? The tractor ran fine at one point so I’m quite confused. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, JB
Some gear trains have odd gear numbers so that the marks seldom align, the marks are there for the guy in the factory, not for you to set the timing. What happens if you put the pump in and check the timing marks of the pump vs tdc? should be right on or maybe 180 off. Before you tear into it, or try to start it, wait for pumpguy or some other pump expert to come along.
I assume you put the engine on tdc before you removed the pump. You use those marks when you assemble the timing gears, but after the engine has been run, all the timing marks don't necessarily line up any more, due to the varying diameters of the gears.
Delmer – Understood, but in this case the service manual specifically calls out to make sure the marks are aligned when installing a new or rebuilt pump. Mitch – I did not. The pump drive gear has a pin that the pump mates to so that it can only go on one way. The way I understood it, and the way the manual lays it out, checking for TDC wasn’t necessary and only the timing marks near the pump mounting bolts needed to be noted. Maybe this was my mistake. In the meantime I put it back together as-is (with the marks misaligned) to see how she’d run. Started and idled fine, but smokes like a chimney. Any throttle results in even more smoke and bogs the engine way down. Thanks again for the replies.
Try twisting the pump on the slots on the mounting bolts. I remember the pin now, I knew there was a reason the 3 cylinder Ford was dead easy. I have never looked at the timing marks on the gears when changing a pump on one.
The PUMP DRIVE SHAFT must be turned to line up with the pin..its "fool proof".. Did you pay attention to "what * mark" the timing line on the OUTSIDE of the pump lined up with on the block?? THATS what they were talking about in "the manual".. Just line up the PIN with the slot in the pump drive.. bolt it on.. set the timing line on the pump [outer flange] to "0" degrees and fire it up..
Pumpguy, that's why I suggested twisting the pump. When I do one, I always scratch match marks, if somebody else pulls it, I look up the timing setting, but, I've always heard about adjusting the timing to change performance. What can you tell me about how to tell which way it's off? Or, what advancing or retarding the timing will do?
There is an arrow on the name plate that indicates the "normal" direction of pump rotation. If you go "opposite" the arrow, your advancing the timing.. Most Fords I've seen are set at "0" degrees.
In my understanding, if it's too advanced it will be loader and smokier. Too retarded just won't have as much power and probably wouldn't start cold? It sounds like JB's is too advanced with the smoke, and especially with it bogging down with more fuel/throttle, that has to be way too advanced right? I loosen the nuts and turn the pump while it's idleing till it sounds right, but I've read that can damage the gear train? old dodge owners tale?
Guys, thanks for the advice. I will try and rotate the pump on the mounting bolts and see if I can't find a position in which it runs right. When I pulled the pump it was in between the 0 and 1 marks (just clockwise from 0), and that is where I put it back. I will try and go back the other way some and see what happens. Will update with any progress. I went back and looked at the service manual, and it clearly calls out the necessity of the timing marks on the geartrain. Even has a photo of the "dot" lining up with the "3" as it should. My only other thought, as Delmer mentioned is that with the number of teeth they don't line up every time. Maybe only every 4th revolution or so? I just can't understand how they would have ever gotten off. I might bump the engine over a few times and see if they ever line up.
I think that the marks should align themselves, at every lowest common multiple of the teeth numbers. If one gear, for example, has 5 teeth and the other one has 4, they will pass through the same alignment, every 20 turns. It's how I see it, as an engineer.
I think your reading to much into it.. Those lines are for engine rebuilds when the gear train is apart.. Its "possible" to get the gear off a tooth but if it starts and runs.. chances are pretty strong that didn't happen. And as Marius said.. it will take AHEAP of engine turning to get them to align properly.. and like you said in you 1st post... YOU cant move the gears without pulling the cover.. Unless someone turned the engine over with the starter while the pump was off, your prob. OK..
JB said there is "no way to unmesh them", so I just assumed nobody snuck in and pulled the timing cover off moved one gear and put it back together. I try not to "read too much into" what somebody did in the past to an old machine, if it worked right before, it should work right again. If I remember right to get ALL the timing marks aligned again in some Perkins you'd have to turn over a thousand revs, that's where the engineer comes in handy, calculate how many more you need, start it up and let it run a minute or so, shut it off and see how close you are.
Pumpguysc I have a pump on my john deere 310c that shows the symptoms you have described in some of your posts black material at the check valve, the backhoe runs then stops after 10 min. I would like you to repair the pump. I live near Fayetteville nc. Do you stll do this work and how can I contact you? I apologize for psting on this thread just not sure how to make contact with you. jerry [email protected]
Hey Jerryrigg Welcome to HEF, man! I have been repairing things using your methods for better than thirty years, I never thought I'd really get to meet you! Mitch
Welcome to HEF jerry. Pumpguysc should read this soon. I live in Illinois. I sent my pump to him via UPS. He did an outstanding rebuild . He was a lot cheaper than a local shop wanted to charge.
Mitch> your funny!! Tinkerer> Thanks. Jerry> I'll send you an email.
Are you still alive as I have a question about my Ford 550 engine I have just had new sleeves installed and now finding it hard to align the fuel injector gear with the the 3 and 4 stamped on it . what do I align with the crankshaft dot.. can you give me an idea.. please Tony..