Looking at a Ford 555 that has tranny problems. The lady selling it inherited it from her father, and she really doesn't know very much about it. The transmission was worked on by someone else about a year ago and apparently worked ok for about 30 minutes afterwards. I have no idea what it's problem was before it was "repaired". Now, the 4 speed manual part seems ok, but the shuttle part is fouled up. If you put it in forward or reverse, it will act like it is still in neutral. After playing with the throttle and waiting a little time, it will start to move, and seems to work ok. It acts like the pump is sucking air part of the time. I didn't have time play with it much, and didn't have much room to move it around. I know nothing about these transmissions, and am hoping someone here can shed some light on the subject after my brief description.
You can check the linkage but from what you're describing, that's not going to be your problem. You can check pressures, but you'll have to invest in a manual, gauge and hose. I don't have a 555 manual. There's not much else you can do from the outside. There may be a broken sealing ring or valve problem. Sounds like both pistons in the clutch drum are not getting the oil they need to timely engage. The bottom line is what kind of shape is it in and what's the asking price. From your description, the shuttle has to come apart. The offending part is probably cheap but you don't know who worked on it and they obviously made one mistake. Maybe there's more.
Thanks for the reply. The rest of the machine is in pretty good shape. The hydraulics are very strong, and will easily lift both ends off of the ground at idle. The pins are all tight. Has a hydraulic thumb, which would be handy for me. Rear tires are basically new. One front tire is good, and the other one is a maypop. I couldn't find an hour meter. The price is right.
If you are capable of repairing the shuttle yourself it is probably a good machine to buy. Especially with the hydraulic thumb. I sure wish the thumb on mine was hydraulic.
If you repair it yourself, there's a lot of talented folks who used to work in the woods that can give you a hand. Your labor rate is reasonable as well. Sounds like a winter project if you have a shop or access thereto. With no Ford experience, you can plan on a day to split it, a day to put it back together, and a couple of days to R&R the shuttle with delays waiting for parts. A one day job for someone with Ford experience who has a little help when he needs it and parts on the shelf; two hours in, two hours out and the rest dealing with whatever's inside.
The bummer is that I do not have a shop. If I do the work myself, it will be outside.
still do able without a shop. I wouldn't want to do it in winter here, but you'd probably have it easier there. Nothing to be afraid of, you just have to figure what your time and risk is worth to you? go with this deal or what else is available?
Without knowing your ability, here's a link to peruse in case you're thinking of buying that 555. HeavyEquipmentForums I'd suggest you buy a manual and study it then get someone with mechanical skills to help you split her. It's not necessary, but safer to remove the front bucket, and you'll learn something by pulling the starter and unbolting the torque converter as you bar the flex plate around, leaving the T/C in the shuttle when you pull her apart. It's an absolute must that you drive wedges between the front axle and the front bolster to keep the engine from laying over when she comes apart. There's more but you'll have to decide what you want to do first. Purchase price plays a big part of your decision. Fortunately she'll go into gear so hauling will be much easier.
Thanks, that thread looks like it will be a lot of help. I paid $3,600 for it with 2 additional buckets, and got it home today. Shuttle seems to work OK for about the first 5 minutes of driving, then starts slipping badly. To the point that it will barely move on level ground. I changed the filter, and the transmission fluid looks and smells good. Same result. I don't have a temperature gauge for the transmission, but it seems like the problem is related to temperature.? I don't yet have a service manual or a pressure gauge.
Thinking out loud here. The fluid that spilled out when I was changing the filter seemed kind of frothy. I am wondering if the pickup could be cracked, or otherwise leaking. If so, could it be aerating the fluid to the point that the viscosity is severely reduced?
At that price you are in good shape. Does it act the same in both F and R. There could be a lot of reasons it gets worse when the fluid gets warm. These could all act the same in both F and R; bad T/C, pump, o-ring, sealing ring. Get a manual and find someone to help you split her. It's harder to split on dirt than concrete. Plan on tearing the shuttle all the way down and replacing all orings, gaskets, sealing rings and seals. As you examine the hard parts on the way in, you can decide what to reuse and replace on the way out.
Yeah, it acts the same in forward and reverse which makes me think it is probably not the clutch packs. If it was, I would think it would be worse in one direction than the other.
I HAVE THE COMPLETE 555 PTD MANUAL TO BIG FOR ME TO UPLOAD
Actually, I just ordered a service manual off of Ebay. I really prefer to have the actual book, rather than having it on my computer. Thanks though.
YES, BOOK MUCH BETTER,,, HATE THE PFD VERAION, I PRINT OUT THE SECTION THAT I'M WORKING ON,,, GOOD LUCK, OLD BUT STRONG BACKHOES, MINE IS A 555A-XL XL=EXTRA LONG BOOM, MAKES THE FRONT END LITE E
Yeah, one of the first things I noticed is that the front end seems light, even with the standard hoe.
That says to me that the clutch packs aren't getting the oil pressure they need to compress the pistons tight enough to keep the frictions and steels from slipping, or your T/C is shot and you're not getting any power to the shuttle. You mentioned the PO believed someone worked on the shuttle and it worked for a while. Hard to believe the T/C crapped out after 30 minutes, but it's possible. Same goes for the pump. It's easy to break a sealing ring when going back together. These rings separate oil passages on the shafts so that oil is directed to the clutch drum appropriately. There's a good chance your clutch drum is not getting appropriate oil pressure, which gets worse when the oil warms up. It would be nice to know why the PO worked on the shuttle. If for the same reason, then it's not likely a sealing ring caused the initial problem. If for some other reason, it's likely that problem was corrected and this one created. Books are 10x better for all the reasons mentioned. It would help to have a parts diagram also. I think you can print it off CNH's online software found at https://www.messicks.com/vendor/new-holland .
As for the repairs performed previously, the lady said that it turned into a feud after the transmission was not right, and so they refused to pay the $3,500 that he was charging them for the work. Maybe the guy didn't really do what he said that he did, and was just trying to rip them off.?
I'd go back and ask her if she has a copy of the invoice and ask her if the transmission had the same problem after repair or the current problem is something new. Maybe you'll figure out the name of the mechanic so you can talk to him yourself. Lucky you if he skimped on something cheap like an oring or sealing ring. There's always two sides to every story. How did the machine operate fine for 30 minutes yet they didn't pay the mechanic. Usually payment comes after completion of work, so unless they stopped payment on a check they wrote, the mechanic would have his money before they knew the shuttle didn't work. The invoice might shed a lot of light on what happened, but for what you're in that machine, I'd just tear it down and figure it out. I went back and read the thread I cited you to earlier. There's a lot of good info in that thread that will make more sense when you have a manual and parts diagram in hand.
YES. If the fluid becomes aerated during use this will rob the transmission of power. You could certainly have a crack somewhere, pump worn out or damaged, etc.
Yes, there are definitely at least 2 sides to every story, and I got a very brief second hand account of one side of it. Yes, she said that they had stopped payment on the check, and that she has no idea where any invoice would be, or if they even kept it. Once again, the lady I dealt with is only going by what she was told by the guy who is no longer alive. I don't think there's much hope of getting any more information from her.
In that case, crawl underneath and remove the plate under the bell housing and take a look at the converter. Is the shell bright and clean? Does the bell housing and oil divider look like someone cleaned it. What do the bolts and washers look like that secure the oil divider to the transmission case. A mishmash of hardware or something that could pass for factory.
Good ideas, and hopefully I will have time to check those things out after work.
Don't pursue that invoice or any information about it. It surprises me there wasn't a mechanics lien put on the machine. Unless the of course most of the charges were for work that wasn't done.
I just now crawled under it and removed that little plate. The converter does not look to be freshly installed, and really looks like it has been in there since the machine was built. Furthermore, the large bolts between the engine and transmission look to have never been removed. Just guessing, I'd say the "repairman" changed the filter and fluid, then tried to charge for a transmission rebuild.
BTW, anyone know of a good source for a gauge to check the pressure at that port?
Sounds like you're getting to the bottom of things. First find what pressure you're looking for, get a decent gauge that reads double that pressure, and the fittings and hoses you'll need to connect the gauge. Any decent 300-400 PSI gauge on ebay will work, if your pressure is supposed to be half that. You could go to a hydraulic shop, maybe a farm supply store, many places online. discounthydraulichose has a handy thread id chart to tell exactly what style of fittings you have, if you don't already know, or just want to confirm with a caliper and thread gauge.
Do you have a local hydraulic shop that makes hoses and sells fittings. They should have a gauge and hose. I forget if the fitting is JIC or NPT. It may be that your converter failed.
Your manual will outline the pressure tests, which range from 50 -180 psi, depending upon oil temperature and engine rpm. Like Delmer said, buy a gauge with more range so your pressures will be in the mid range of the gauge's capacity and not at its maximum or minimum limit.
Sounds good, but I was wondering about the rpm thing. I don't have a functional tach. Even so, I should be able to tell if the pressure is significantly lower than it should be. I am anxious to get the service manual and get to solving the problem. BTW, I did see a gauge on Ebay that comes with an assortment of fittings, and has a limit of 500psi. I think it was about $25.
If, as I suspect, the pressure drops significantly when the oil gets up to operating temperature, how would you know whether it is the pump or the torque converter, or maybe even some other cause?
Something like this will work for a pressure gauge. Make sure it's rated for oil. This one is WOG (water, oil, gas). https://www.ebay.com/itm/STAINLESS-...=26328811779598a4d982278c44928a443d7ed5681f08 The manual will walk you through a stall test of the converter. When you get to that point, it's probably more effective to perform all the other pressure tests first, then see if she holds on a hill in gear and if she can push a pile of dirt. It really doesn't matter. You're going to be replacing the converter to avoid having to go back in after you've finished the shuttle. In the scheme of things, a reman converter is a cheap investment. If your instrument cluster is not functioning, now is the time to replace the cluster so you have a functioning tach. They're all imports now, some better than others, some junk. I don't know who is selling quality parts these days but this one may be ok. Buy the 2 year warranty to be sure. https://www.tractorpartsasap.com/instrument-gauge-cluster-new-ford-e5nn10849ba-103890.html
You'll know for sure whether it's the pump when you take the pump apart. They're not expensive either. About $300 aftermarket. Otherwise, the line test outlined in the manual will give you a guestimate. If I remember right, we had a flow meter that gave us the answer real fast. I forgot to ask. Does the trans filter look like it had been changed recently or does it look like its been on there a while.
Transmission filter looked to have been recently replaced. I probably spoke too soon about the instruments. After the owner died, the family couldn't find the key, so they just hot wired the starter to get it going. I have a couple of keys ordered, and maybe the instruments will work then.
The tach is mechanical. If the engine is running, the tach is turning. You need to figure out if the problem is in the tach cable. If the cable is fine, it's the tach.
OK, thanks
I generally get home from work too late during the week to do anything with it, so it will probably be Saturday or Sunday before I can get back at it.
The days are getting shorter as well. We're all in the same boat. The only thing I'd worry about is taking her apart and not getting her back together for a few months. Life seems to get in the way all too often.
Yeah, I definitely don't want to get into that kind of situation. It would be ideal if I could figure out exactly what the problem is before I disresemble it so I could have the relevant parts on hand.
I don't think things are going to work out that way. You would have to have parts on hand that you will not need. A reman converter carries a core charge that is lost if not timely returned. I think the best you can do is purchase a seal kit before the split, order a converter after the split, and purchase bearings and hard parts locally or online as needed. Chances are there's going to be a work week between the split and component clean up for you to buy parts before you put her back together. You'll need to keep everything dry and clean until she's reassembled.
I don't know if you are looking for a parts source, but I have purchased transmission parts from this online vendor. https://www.joseph.com/
OK, thanks
Here is another I have purchased from. Randy the parts man is very knowledgeable. https://www.farmlandtractor.com/
as they say on 'THIS OLD HOUSE SHOW" TIME TO GO TO WORK. keyboard time over lol GL
Getting close. Got the service manual yesterday. Now I am just waiting for the pressure gauge to get here. At that point, I should be ready to perform the pertinent tests, and get into this project in earnest. I plan on using my wheel dozer to support and steady the front half of the machine as I separate it. I figure with the front bucket in the air, I should be able to chain it to the dozer blade, and have an easy way of moving it up or down during the process.
I did notice that the transmission is over full. Think I will drain it down to the proper level, and see if that somehow helps. Not sure how it would, but it must have an upper level limit for a reason. Still waiting for my pressure gauge.
OK, still don't have the pressure gauge yet, but I drained the excess juice out of the tranny. The fluid looked ugly after I had a chance to see a larger quantity of it. It looks like coffee with a lot of creamer in it!?! Also has some sparkles in it ☹. I put in fresh fluid (minus the amount left in the cooler and converter), and there was no improvement. It worked OK for about 5 minutes of driving, then began slipping badly. To the point that it would barely move on level ground. It is not getting coolant in it, as the radiator is full of good looking coolant. I am leaning toward a bad pump, but I don't know why it would seem to work OK for a few minutes, not even really long enough for the fluid to get very hot. Thoughts?
Does it get foamy? oil has anti foam additives, water defeats those additives, adding new oil will not get rid of all the water.
I thought that the oil that came out when I changed the filter looked aerated, but it was a fairly small amount of oil, and hard to tell for sure. I can't figure out what would have made the fluid have such a color to it (like coffee with lots of creamer in it). If it is water in the oil, it's mixed really well. The fluid that came out when I drained it didn't look aerated, just very thin, and strangely colored.
one test to see if there's water, heat a piece of steel up so it will smoke right away when you drip a drop of new motor oil on it, then drip a drop of your oil on it, does it sizzle a little? spatter? just smoke?
You should have drained the converter. Coffee and cream says water in the oil. Hard to believe that transmission was rebuilt. That water would have to be condensation or rain water or coolantr from your oil cooler. I wonder if she's swapping fluid with the center housing. Pull the drain plug on the center housing and see what the oil looks like. If more of the same, drain the center housing and replace the fluid with oil that "meets or exceeds" the Ford M2C134D spec. Oil that says "recommended for" or other such nonsense doesn't meet spec. I can't stress this enough. Most of your UTF-s don't meet the Ford spec.
While I knew that my not draining the converter was going to leave some of the nasty oil in the system, I figured that having 80-90% fresh oil would tell me if it was going to solve the problem. If there had been some improvement afterwards, I would have known that that was the problem. However, the issue was exactly the same with 90% fresh oil. Also, the sparkles in the drained oil tell me that I really do have to split that sucker, and probably replace the pump, at a minimum.
YOU PROBABLY KNOW THE POWER STEERING, CONVERTER, TRANSMISSION, AND REAR END REQUIRE A TRANS/HYD OIL, REGULAR HYD OIL FOR LOADER AND BACKHOE, I DON'T SEE USING DEALER OIL FOR A 35 YEAR OLD TBL MACHINE,,,,TRACTOR SUPPLY GOT THE FLUIDS YOU NEED
Of course I was fantasizing about a quick, cheap, and easy fix. However, this project is starting to smell like about $1,500 in parts, and a bunch of labor hours. Still, all told, I should end up into this machine for less than $6,000 if you don't include my labor hours. I don't want to half-ass this transmission repair, but I am also not going for factory new perfection, as this machine is going to be my farm hoe, and not depended on in a business setting.
I don't think there's a shortcut or quick fix on this one. You may not even figure out the problem. All you can do is build it according to the manual and check your work 3x to be sure you aren't making a mistakes. The fastest way to start an online war is to start talking about oil but I didn't make the above statement about "meets or exceeds" to get into an argument. If you want your shuttle to last, you'll have to use the correct oil. The TSC oil and so many others (Kubota, Mobil, ect.) may be good oils or good enough for other applicatins, but they don't meed the Ford spec and they don't have the correct additive package. I don't like the current OEM CNH Ambra oil as I no longer trust CNH under its current ownership (and I'm not the only one who feels this way). When she goes back together, you can use TSC $40 oil for 5-10 hours to test your work but you'd be best served by draining it out and replacing it with Valvoline W813 and reusing the TSC in the hydraulics. Besides the lack of additives, the TSC and so many others have a viscosity of 10-30 while the Ford spec (which Valvoline meets or exceeds in both additives and viscosity) is between 40-50. The Mobil 424 is a pretty close second but I see they no longer "meet or exceed" and I haven't taken the time to figure out if it's deficient in viscosity or additive. I'm assuming the additive package changed. We use it in many other applications and it's a very good product, but not good enough for this application. So proceed at your own risk. I'm not telling you these things to run you around in circles. My comments come from what I learned from Ford mechanics with decades of experience and the school of hard knocks.
$6,000 if you take a tactical approach. Price the same parts at CNH and you'll have $6K just in the shuttle. Better to aim for factory new perfection from day one. You may have to settle for less. Start out aiming for less and you may end up with what you currently have.
Yeah, I agree about the oil. Cheap "house brand" to see if it is working, but good stuff for the long haul. And yes, I definitely want to make sure that everything is right before I reassemble the whole machine so I don't risk having to tear it down again. However, things like a little bit of wear on the clutch disks might be tolerable in a machine which probably won't see 200 hours of use per year, as opposed to one that I would be depending on daily to make a living.
I did run the machine just using the backhoe part for about 45 minutes yesterday. After running it that long, I tried driving it back and forth a few times, and it moved OK. So, the shuttle doesn't seem to crap the bed until it is actually driven for a few minutes. On a side note, there is not any significant play in the pins of the loader or the hoe, although it doesn't look like it has been properly greased in YEARS. In fact, a couple of the zerk fittings were broken off, and one of them was totally missing. I replaced the zerks, and thoroughly greased everything. The brakes work, but require quite a bit of pressure on the pedal. I would really rather not have to do a brake job on it right now. Maybe they will get a little better with some use (as I believe the machine has been sitting for quite a while).?
I have no idea how the oil got so contaminated, but I think I have figured out why the shuttle works for a few minutes, then stops working. My theory is that oil is either getting past a seal in the control valve, or is getting past a seal at the clutch application piston itself. This would explain why it works for a few minutes, until the pressure equalizes on both sides of the piston. Thoughts?
keep thinking, that's not how it works. seals are designed to leak, they all do. You either have too much leakage to maintain enough pressure to apply the clutches, or not enough pressure produced by the pump, or something in between.
You'll find a spec for friction thickness in your manual. If your frictions pass, you can reuse them. If the steels have discoloration or show signs of wear, you can replace them for about $5 apiece. Not worth reusing.
Maybe the PO spent his time rebuilding it but never got to use it. If you put the stick down and put weight on it and the main pins don't rock around in the swing tower you're in fat city. Same goes for the swing cylinders. If she stops swinging when you do then there's little to no wear. You'll find the bushings wear before the pins as the pins are a bit harder material by design. The brakes can be adjusted. Hopefully they're not worn out. Sometimes I think I'd rather rebuild a shuttle than the brakes, but like all things there's a trick to that too. Try to adjust them first and if you have to get inside, leave that for next year.
Check the oil in the center housing. No use working on the shuttle if she's swapping fluid and you're in for more of the same. The shiny stuff could have been brake friction material from the center housing.
There's two pistons, one on each side of the clutch drum. You said she acts the same in F and R. That means, as stated, that you're not getting oil pressure to the clutch drum. If she worked in F or in R, then you might have bad piston seals. There's two per piston. If the PO's mechanic split her and tore her down, then a lot of things could be happening. That's why I said you may never find the problem. Sometimes an oring is worn or cut so slight that you miss the damage unless you know what you're looking for. You could have a sticking relief valve. Your machine doesn't have a dump valve or I'd tell you to look there first. You can access the relief valve through the plate under the bell housing. It's in the bottom of the oil divider. I was waiting for you to acquire a manual before I mentioned this possibility, but it's a long shot at best. Now that you have a manual, you can figure out how to have at it. Again, if the shuttle was opened up, my bet is on a broken sealing ring or damaged oring. Speculating that someone left a rag in the sump is a reasonable probability and it happens all the time, but not helpful to you. Pull the bucket off and split her according to the book. Using your wheel dozer is asking for trouble. The procedure is quite archaic and simple. There's nothing to be gained by reinventing the wheel but there's a lot to lose if it goes wrong. I do the same thing you're doing all the time but in this case, it's not going to help. Even if you find the problem and it's a simple fix, the idiot who make the mistake may have made three more that are just waiting to let go. Best to start over and spend a day inside the shuttle. I have a 3550 that I bought for $500. New BSD 333 engine. What a deal. Looked in the inspection hole under the bell housing and saw all sizes of washers under the oil divider retaining bolts. She was cheap because R failed. After seeing those washers I realized that an idiot worked on the shuttle when they replaced the engine, or before, and the only reasonable option is to tear it down. Just haven't had time. So, even if I discovered a quick fix, I'd always be stressing about the idiot who was in the shuttle and I wouldn't be happy until I went through it myself. These things are just another adventure and when they're over you will be have a sense of satisfaction of having done it yourself, more so if you can do it with quality aftermarket parts and stick it to CNH.
Like I said, the pins and bushings all seem good, but as for them being rebuilt, I doubt it. None of them appear to have been apart to be freshened up. I would guess that the only reason they are not worn out is that the machine has seen very little use in the last half of its life. As for the brakes, the pedal doesn't seem to travel an excessive amount, it just takes a lot of pressure on it to get much braking. Like a car with power brakes, when the engine isn't running. BTW, I really appreciate the advice.
Yeah, when I can get back after it, I will be checking the oil in the center housing. The level in it is good by the dipstick, but I will drain some to have a good look at it.
It doesn't appear to me that the the engine has been separated from the transmission any time in the recent past, if ever. If the large bolts holding the two together had been removed, they would show evidence of it. The accumulated grime on them appears the same as the surrounding area of the machine. It really does appear that the dude who supposedly worked on the shuttle just tried to pull a fast one on an old man.
In that case, karma will catch up to him and you're probably dealing with a bad converter and the oil looked like coffee because its service interval was 2-3x longer than the grease schedule used on the loader frame and hoe. Would be a good idea to inspect the relief valve under the oil divider before you split her just in case it has a spec of foreign material causing it to stick but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Adjusting the brakes should still help. You shouldn't notice a difference in pedal travel but the brake rods from the axle housings will travel further forward (out of the housing) putting additional force on the brake discs giving you more brake force unless there's nothing left to give.
OK, thank you. I really do appreciate everyone's helpful advice in this thread. Truly a learning experience for me.
I am at work, and can't refer to the service manual right now. How do you get to the relief valve? Would it be from the top, or bottom?
Bottom. Take a look at the parts diagram at https://www.messicks.com/nhc/48653 Specifically Section 3, Transmission, Page 07B03. Part No. 49 is the valve. Could also be a broken spring, but I've never seen or heard of this happening.
OK, thanks I will check it out. Received the pressure gauge today, so I should be set to perform the necessary tests this weekend.
Got off work early today, so I had a chance to do the pressure tests. 110psi at idle, which was right where it should be. However, the pressure did not increase with the rpm. The tach doesn't work, so I had to guesstimate on the engine speed, but the pressure never increased at all above the idle reading. I drove it a little, and the pressure started dropping. Now I am leaning toward either a faulty relief valve, or a partially plugged sump screen. Thoughts?
Looks like it takes a 1&1/8 inch socket for the relief valve. Of course that's the size that I am missing. Lol Will pick one up tomorrow and see if I can get that sucker out of there.
OK, I got the cap off that holds the spring and valve up in the housing. The spring came out, but the valve itself is still up in there. I figured it would fall out, but it didn't. The hole is offset from the access window, so I can't see directly up to the valve. Any ideas how to get the valve out? BTW, the cap is a 1&1/8 inch size, and it was so tight that I had to use a 3 foot breaker bar to get it loose. All of this makes me think that the valve was not moving as it should, otherwise it should come out without much effort.
Managed to get the valve out, and it looks to be in good condition. Nothing obviously wrong with it. Spring is fine also. I was really hoping that was the problem, but I guess not. Time to split the machine.
Put her back together and see if there's a difference. Yesterday morning I finished replacing all the known problems with a 6.0 powerstroke. First time for me. Yesterday night she wouldn't start. She's getting better, just had to give her time to pass all the air in the high pressure oil system. I assumed the worst and was ready to tear her down. Sometimes you do everything right and there's another problem you didn't forsee. Reinstall the valve and see if she's any better. It only takes a spec of $$$it to stick a valve. Something you won't even find unless you're lucky. Not much to lose at this point.
Too late. Lol After getting frustrated trying to put the ball valve and spring back in, with no luck, I might add, I decided to go ahead and tear it down. Those caps that hold the valves and springs in are offset from the access window, and it is nearly impossible to compress the spring with a u-joint type of ratchet extension. After seeing the nasty fluid that came out of it, I would really rather go through it and replace all of the seals anyway. I like how the service manual just says "remove starter" at one point in the process. It ain't quite that simple. Apparently, you have to remove the solenoid from it first, to get clearance to get the starter out.
Didn't get it completely split today, but I got most of the way there. I can definitely say that this machine has not been apart for MANY years, if ever. Glad I had a 3 foot cheater to break stuff loose. Several times I thought I was going to break my wrenches before the bolt or hydraulic line broke loose. Anxious to get 'er whipped into shape.
Updates with pictures would be nice if you are able.
Just now got 'er split. And yes, the old Michigan was a big help. Haven't actually dug into the shuttle yet.
Drained and removed the torque converter (lots of sparkles in the oil). Removed the four bolts holding the pump, but I am unsure how to actually get the pump off. I assume that it's stuck on there with gasket adhesive. Is it safe tap on it from the sides to loosen it? I really don't want to damage anything. Also, I did not find any sealing washers that the manual refers to. Would it be referring to seals behind the pump?
There should be a square oring behind the pump. Hard to say what's behind yours. The pump should fall off. Don't whack it so hard it moves sideways as you don't want to damage the input shaft. The sealing washers are on the input shaft where they pass through the oil divider, that big casting the pump bolts to. Go back and read the thread I cited you to before you pull the oil divider so you don't bend the oil tube that needs to be removed from the side of the bell housing.
Yeah, I have been going back to that thread frequently. The way it is worded in the manual made me think some washers on the bolts.
looks to me like the pump is roached, and the big free floating washer in the converter can't be a good sign either.
Seems like maybe something broke loose inside the converter, sending metal into the pump. I was afraid that I might get into this project and not be able to really find a definite problem. Thankfully, that doesn't seem to be the case.
Oh no. There's a lot of life left in those parts. Don't throw them away. I know someone who can use them in their next rebuild. So, you've got a bit of circulating metal and it doesn't sound like the filter was effective. May have plugged and bypassed. Now to figure out what the rest of her looks like and start ordering parts. Pay close attention to the bearings and oil passages in the various components. Don't forget the oil cooler and lines. Buy a case of $3 brake clean. Blow everything out with compressed air and follow with brake clean. I'd seriously consider washing out the transmission case with kerosene or similar. That being said, the damage may be less than you think.
I was surprised that the teeth of the pump gears look pretty good. They must not mesh tightly. It is mainly the outer circumference of the larger gear that seems to look worn, as well as the sides of the gears. I don't know what the acceptable dimensions of the gears are, but I would think that the tolerances are critical for the pump to work efficiently. No, I was not considering reusing the pump, just noting that it doesn't look too bad to the naked eye. I ran out of time, and haven't dug further into the shuttle yet.
Yeah, and when I do get it back together and going again, I am going to put cheap oil in it and run it for just a little while and drain that out. Might do that a couple of times, depending on what the oil looks like when I drain it.
Update, life got in the way, and I wasn't able to get back to the project for a while. It appears that the converter came apart inside, sending so much metal into the oil that it plugged the sump screen. What is amazing to me is that the bearings, gears, and clutches all look good. I am going to put it back together (after a VERY thorough cleaning) with a new converter, oil pump, bearings, bushings, seals, and gaskets. The brass particles visible in the bottom of the housing are what is left of the bushing between the oil pump and the input shaft.
Also, I am not going to even try to get all of that crap out of the sump screen, I am just going to buy a new sump.
I was going to ask you that very question a couple of times but thought better of it as it happens to me all the time, months at a time. Sounds like you have a good plan. I think the only way you'd clean that pickup screen is with ultrasound. New will be a lot less effort. Take plenty of pictures and let us know how it goes.
At some point in this machine's history there was apparently some sort of problem with the wiring. It has a bank of aftermarket gauges (none of which work, except the oil pressure). It appears that all of the factory wiring harness has been disconnected. If I had a lot of spare time, I would probably order a new wiring harness, and totally replace it all. Back to reality though, I will probably just run it, and pay close attention to things. Also, when I was attempting to get the wires off of the alternator, the post for the main hot wire just spun around without the nut ever coming off. Finally had to just cut the wire. Now, I doubt that the alternator will work, and I don't know if it did before. Several minor issues like this, but for an occasional use farm hoe, it should serve me well.
You're going to be repairing that kind of stuff for a while so I wouldn't let it worry you for now. The front harness should be available aftermarket cheap. It's pretty much just a Ford 4000 harness. The expensive one is the one at your feet in the firewall. You'll see it's full of fuses. The real question is do you have the correct Motorola alternator. If you do, a shop local to you should be able to clean it up. The front harness can be swapped out after you've tested your shuttle repair. It's all pretty much under the hood.
Metallic sludge that I cleaned out of the bottom of the housing makes me think that it might be a good idea to put a strong magnet in the gap in the bottom, between the shuttle area and the main transmission area. I picked this one up at HF, and it looks to be about the right size. Going to cut the little handle off of it. Yeah, the drain plug has a small magnet on it, but for some reason it was almost completely clean.
That's not a gap, that's the port through which lube oil flows to the 4spd. I wouldn't block it in any way. Little debris on the drain plug magnet is a good thing. That means the bearings and gears in your 4spd didn't likely suffer damage from the shuttle failure. How about a magnet on your transmission oil filter. There's a bunch of different styles. I like the one that sticks to the side of the filter. Search, "oil filter magnet."
Get some used hard drive magnets, if they're on the backing plate, put one end of the plate in a vice, and twist the other end with vice grips, they'll pop right off without cracking. Stick a couple of those to the outside of a canister filter, or on your screen, or epoxied wherever you want one, and can inspect it.
Yeah, I knew that is an opening for the oil to flow through, but "gap" was just the first word that came to mind. The opening is about 2 inches wide, so I don't think that a half inch magnet would restrict the oil flow. Those magnets are only a couple of bucks at Harbor Freight, so I may get another one for the bottom of the filter. I cut the metal handle off of the magnet, and it is pretty small now. Seems to be quite strong though.
A couple of comparison pictures of the new vs the old. That is after I tried to clean the old one. It is a good thing that the screen in the sump is so fine, otherwise I think that whole transmission would have been destroyed.
Finally got 'er back together this morning. It seems to be working well despite my mechanical ineptitude. I did end up putting a small strong magnet on the bottom of the sump, hoping that any metal particles that are still in the transmission will find their way to the magnet rather than the sump screen. I very much appreciate all of the advice that I received from other members on this forum. Hard to believe that it was 2 months ago when I bought it. It still has a LOT of little issues that I need to address, but it runs and works good, so the little stuff can wait. I ended up having about $5,000 total in it not including my labor, so I figure that I did alright on the deal. Also, believe it or not, my wife was a great helper in splitting and reassembling the machine. She's an amazing lady.
Good deal. Mechanically inept not. This is one of those things that 90% will ask someone else to do. Now you have a machine that will give you years of service for not much money. You should consider yourself lucky. Two months from start to finish for a DIY equipment repair of that complexity is quick. Let the rain begin. You're going to have a lot of little things to address as you go along. The good news is almost every day it will good enough to get the job done. If your hoses are rotted, it would be a good idea to have a few made before they blow. Your manual will give you the correct measurements, but don't rely on it completely. There's a few lengths I question and have made shorter/longer to improve function. Thanks for the pictures and for posting back when the repair was complete.
Yeah, several hoses look like they will go before long. Thankfully, none of my projects are urgent, so if a hose pops, or something else lets go, it is no big deal for the machine to be down for a few days. I am still hot wiring it to start it, but I will rewire it to the ignition switch soon. Needs a stronger return spring on the shut off on the fuel pump. None of the lights or gauges work. Alternator is not even wired up right now, after the main terminal on the back of it spun around rather than the nut coming off when I tried to get the wire off. The pin for one of the stabilizer pads is broken off. The seat is roached, and both front tires need to be replaced. Don't get me wrong. I am not complaining, just listing some of the stuff I need to eventually get to. For now, I am just thankful to have a functional backhoe.