I spend a fair amount of time in FB Marketplace and have been looking for a vintage Cat dozer for a while, when this popped up - a 977H, listed as inoperable. It was on a 130 acre farm/ranch near Killeen, TX that some investors had bought. Farm/ranch went belly up and they sent in someone to liquidate everything, including the 977H. The liquidator didn't know anything about the 977H other than the fact that there was something wrong with it. When I called him on Saturday to discuss, I asked how soon would he need it gone. He said it had to be gone by Wednesday morning. I think he heard my jaw drop over the phone. Then he said, "Look, you're the only one who's been serious about it, so if you can get it out of here by Wednesday morning, it's yours." Challenge accepted! Headed there Sunday with a buddy of mine. Had it running and operating in about 2 hours; it just needed a jump start and track tensioner maintenance/repair. Left steering clutch is very weak, but it was getting better as I operated it a bit. Anyway, got a lowboy out there on Tuesday and had it brought to my buddy's ranch near Fredericksburg, Texas. Here's the video that I shot -
Now for the not-so-good news - -The undercarriage is not great. From what I can tell (along with what I'm hearing from others here), the sprockets are ok, but the rest is worn out. -But the worst part appears to be the right final drive. The outside bearing cover is missing and the bearing hub/assembly is damaged. I suspect these parts will be expensive and perhaps difficult to source. Anyone know if Caterpillar would likely still have these parts? Is aftermarket an option? Also, is this something that I can tackle on-site with the appropriate tools and some help?
I just see $$$$$$ to having a useful machine. Maybe you can find some used parts??
I'm hoping for new and reasonably priced, but that may be too much to ask for.
Ide bet my annual salary there is more wrong with it then that
Not going to disagree with you on that.
Does the sprocket need to come off to replace those parts?
Depending on what you find in there you could be in as far as removing the 2M8304 dead shaft. And that will be fun - not........ This one is even more of a basket case than the other one you picked up.
Do you need it for parades or something?
I actually didn't buy the D7. I got it running and then walked away from the deal. That machine was in bad shape all over. The 977 has issues, but I really don't think it's in the same ballpark as the D7.
I was referring to the other 977 you just aquired for nothing........or are you talking about the same machine.? If so why did you create two threads which only causes confusion.? Help Inspecting Undercarriage - 977H Fellas - I just picked up a 977H. The price was right (free), so I didn't worry to much about condition of the undercarriage. From what I'm seeing, it doesn't look bad, but would anyone care to take a look at the pics to tell me what you see? FYI - one of the sprockets has bolt on segments... HeavyEquipmentForums
Same machine. Sorry for the confusion.
The undercarriage alone will cost several times over what the machine is worth. It was parked for a reason. If you're so intent on bringing an old parked machine back to life, there's a 1226D Koehring excavator in Michigan. HeavyEquipmentForums
Michigan is a long way from Texas....
IMO it's as big a POS if not bigger than the D7 was, and maybe has the possibility to empty your wallet even faster. My 2c - YMMV.
The D7 was roached. Plain and simple. There wasn't much on it that wasn't cobbled together, welded, rusted, tweaked, the hydraulics weren't working, the undercarriage was junk, etc. The 977 still might be able to empty my wallet sooner, but that's not what I'm anticipating.
The 1266D might be a better candidate to get working again. Worn out undercarriage is the number 1 reason old crawler dozers and loaders are parked. A farmer I know has an old cable D8 that runs great but he can't use because the undercarriage is toast and too expensive to replace. It could cost a few thousand just to fix the bad bearing and who knows what condition the finals and transmission are in. Maybe you could find used undercarriage?? Could maybe sell some parts off it but there's not a lot of demand for 1960's 977H parts. Hyd. cylinders could be sold to make log splitters, presses or other DIY projects.
On the finals and transmission, it moves and shifts fine. Just doesn't like to turn left. I don't plan to part it out; just don't have the facility and equipment to do that easily. Used undercarriage is an option. Thanks
Moves and shifts doesn't necessarily mean everything is in good condition. Do YouTube video's make you enough to cover the thousands of dollars it costs to try and fix these old parked machines?
Nope. But my Army retirement does.
Must be nice to have some extra some money to throw away.
Have you considered buying an old giant excavator to go along with your 977? Homeowners buying old giant excavators? Wonder what the world will be like when everyone is a construction equipment operator, HVAC repairman, computer repairman, hardwood floor installer, brain surgeon, dentist, landscaper, politician-oops forgot everyone already is that, chef, well driller, college professor, lawyer, pilot... HeavyEquipmentForums
I served in the reserves for 12 years and then 26 years of active duty in the Army. I worked my ass off, served on six of the seven continents, got shot at, rocketed, mortared, and jumped out of about 30 perfectly good airplanes. Now that I'm retired from the Army, I still work full-time, so I'm at the point in my life where everything doesn't have to make complete sense financially. I also don't need a machine that's going to be operating for 40 hours a week; 40 hours a year is more like it.
It might be better to look at machines a little newer that don't need such extensive repairs. Finding something that maybe needs leaks fixed or a hyd. pump might be a better option.
First off, thank you for your service! Next, it's your money. Spend it how you wish. I don't understand why people have to be so negative when it's not theirs. Just to be able to say "I told you so" I guess. Yes you can get into a pile of cash in a hurry. Seems to me you only have a haul bill and a little time into it. Can you sell it as is, maybe put a little money in your pocket, and find a little better machine?
If I were you I'd video it driving, list it for sale 2x the lowboy haul cost and look for the same machine with a blown engine or something. Either you sell it for a profit or you find a parts machine, you don't want to spend 10-20k on that thing.
Thanks.
Thanks for your support! That's difficult for me to understand, too, but I'm coming at this from a different angle that a lot of folks. I'm not looking for a machine that will make sense financially or something that is ready to work, day in and day out, for the next 10 years. I need to do a bit more of an inspection before I make a decision. Thanks
Is there a reason why you're after such a large machine or is it more from the price, or lack there of, stand point? We came into a similar deal when we were building our chicken houses. Looking for a loader to grade some and stump some. Came across a 977L that was a great buy and has been a great machine but it is quite large for a lot of things. This was a big reason why we got it cheap. Nobody wants to move these things
@bulletpruf Thanks for your service. @thendrix There is a IH 250 loader in my area that is "free". Motor starts and runs even in the cold but does not move.......That's a little big even for free....
I'm not necessarily after a large machine, it's just what popped up locally. In a perfect world, I'd find a reasonably priced D3 or D4 dozer, but I haven't found one of these anywhere near me. thanks
Thanks for your support! Ouch.
I am so in agreement with thendrix: And, double up on thank you for serving. Brother in law just got bumped from 90% disability to 100% by the VA (agent orange, copd…). He is extatic! I’m so happy for him. He’s been pursuing this for a long time. I’m retired. Hardly any thing I do contributes to the bank account but I spend (for our household) lots of $$$ on junk or nearly junk and have fun with it. If a project doesn’t pan out, call a scrapper if I can’t haul it in and wait for the next bug to bite. There are lots of bugs.
I don't think anybody's trying to be negative. It's more of a cautionary attitude that could save bulletpruf from spending too much on so called cheap machine. If he has some money it might be better to look for machines that aren't in such poor shape or needing such extensive work. Something like a D3 would be a lot less expensive to repair than a D7 or 977. I can't remember who but I recall another member bought a D3B for I think $4000 and put $8-$10,000 into fixing everything but now has a $20K dozer. You might find a similar machine that doesn't require as much work. The same work on a dozer 2 or 3 times bigger is likely to cost 2 or 3 times more to repair. Everything is more expensive the bigger it gets. Also the smaller machines generally can't tear themselves up as bad when abused.
Thanks @Coaldust .... there goes more hours of my life.........
Even 10 grand in repairs not loss scrap yard savings bond 10 years probably be worth what you put into it for a weekend pet it'll be fun.
Sounds like we have a lot in common; I have too many damn projects right now, and someone just contacted me about a Cat excavator that's been sitting for a while... Thanks for your support! Scott
All good points. I just haven't been able to find that reasonably priced D3 or D4 anywhere near me. Thanks
Time will tell! Thanks Scott
I don't think a 977 complete would bring $10K in scrap plus the $1800 to haul it and then potentially more money to haul it to the scrap yard.
Comparing an old track loader to a d3/d3 is insane. The usefulness and resale of these two comparisons is not even close to the same. Do you know how many times Ive wasted money on something "similar" but cheaper than what I actually needed because the one I needed was more expensive and harder to find? There is a reason one is more expensive and harder to find, its demand is higher since its USEFUL. Do you need a dozer? or just looking for Vid CONTENT? Be honest with yourself, honesty has value.
Yep. I don't think it would bring anywhere near that in scrap. Worth more parted out, I'm sure, but I'm not set up to do that.
You asked if it was feasible, most of us don't believe it is. It's your money....you can spend $1 Million if you want. If you decide to do this let us know. I will need to stock up on popcorn and bourbon.
Agreed. It's your money, spend it how you like. Not to be a wet blanket but until it was pointed out to you that the undercarriage is shot you thought it was in pretty good shape. How much of the rest of the machine that in your eyes is "good" might turn out to be in the same shape as the U/C.? Reference your comment about parting the machine out it is worthwhile to note that the 977H is pretty much a red-headed step child in the 977 lineup and very few of the components from it will fit a K or an L model which are by far the most common.
I don’t need a track loader. I don’t need a dozer. I don’t even need a skid steer. I just like working on stuff, I like saving old stuff, and I love a challenge.
I’m pretty sure it won’t make sense financially and I’m ok with that. Just need to figure out if the parts are available before I make a decision. And I still need to give the rest of the machine a once over.
That’s my concern. I don’t want to spend a bunch of $ and time fixing the final drive issue only to find out that it has a few more significant issues. I need to spend some time reviewing the OMI and the service manual.
Buy an old 950 if you want to load stuff. Buy a D6 if you want to push things.Both are too expensive just to restore for fun.Ive discovered rescueing old equipment is a hobby only for the rich and famous.
I'm neither rich nor famous, but I'd still like to get this one operational again.
Personally, I would get a knowable person to check it out, even if it costs you a few $$$, you are further ahead and show you what needs attention. An operating manual is ok, but you got to know what your looking at, you missed the missing parts of the track frame, there’s probably more
That's a good idea, but not sure how far I'd have to go to find someone to check it out. It's kind of out in the middle of nowhere right now. I saw the damage and suspected parts were missing, but I didn't know exactly what I was looking at and certainly didn't realize how difficult it would be to fix.
Well,to attempt to answer the question of getting the 977,here’s my thoughts….. Allocate $20k to fix the final drive and get it home after buying some track chains to get it on the lowloader. As for fixing it up to tinker around the farm for 40 hours a year… allocate another $5k to $10k. So….$20k to $30k is your ballpark figure to have it as a toy and potentially have some sort of smile on your face in between long days of the tears washing the dust off your wallet. Or…..you could spend $5k to $10k to have it lifted on by a crane(that final drive and track chain makes me doubt you could drag it on) and have it sit in your lot whilst you wait for people to come and buy parts off it to mitigate futher your financial loss over the next 20 years. A word of caution though about parting it out…it would probably sit there 20 years and you’ll sell about $2k worth of parts off it,then be faced with the costs of either hauling to a scrap yard or digging a big hole in your field to bury it. I wish you well with your decision and hope my post is of some use to you in making one.
It drives and operates right now; I drove it onto a lowboy and transported it to my friend's ranch. I really have zero interest in parting it out. Thanks for the input.
So you've already bought it? I think you're getting clouded about how much it would cost to have a workable machine because it runs and moves. Crawler machines are money pits and the ones you're looking at are 10 times more the money pit with no chance of ever giving you any return on your investment. It must be nice if you have thousands of dollars to flush down the drain to never see again. That's what it boils down to, how much money you are prepared to throw away??
I'd be wary of buying anything from Yellowmark (Cat's "aftermarket" brand). Seen those parts manufactured incorrectly far more often than I've seen them correct.
Dave, why don't you find someone else to pick on. And, that goes for others as well. You and others have said their piece, if Bullet wants to fix this tractor up, so be it. Obviously he's going to run into a major snag when he tears into that final, but the warning has been issued, let him at it. I can't seem to understand why the last year or so, everyone seems to want to jump all over these guys that want to make something work. To get something like this and think they're going to use it for production work is a totally different animal.
Not jumping on him. Just trying to caution how much money it can cost to fix up old machines with undetermined and known issues. It's not the same as fixing a machine with known issues you where you can get a much better idea of the costs to repair. Sometimes people can get too fixated on fixing a machine and not realize what they're getting into. Sometimes they just want to prove the naysayers wrong. I wouldn't want someone to regret doing that. It's commendable to want to fix up old machines but it's very easy to get in to deep.
Welder dave, you gotta pay attention. First post, it was free, cost him to move it is all. Joe H
He never said if he hired a lowboy or it was his or a friends, and I bet it was a friend's, so he is into this machine cheap....... for now
It's in the endless video, $1800 to haul it 120 miles. Joe H
Dave - I think we've been over the "must be nice if you have thousands to flush down the drain" already. I have already said that it's not about the investment. I do this for fun. I like to turn wrenches on old musclecars, 4x4's and trucks, too, and I don't get caught up in how much money I make or lose on each project. I think this old machine deserves to be saved. I'm not sure yet that I'm going to do it (I still need to nail down parts needed, cost, and availability), but I'm leaning that way. Scott PS - Here's what I was working on today - my 1991 F350 with a 7.3 idi and a ZF-5. Been spending a lot of time and a bit of $ trying to get it roadworthy again (was off the road for 10 years before I bought it off a ranch not too far from here). It's not practical, it's slow, doesn't have nearly as much power as I'd like, and if/when I sell it, I'll never recoup my investment, but I'm ok with all of that.
Thanks for the input. I have already been warned by a good friend about the Cat aftermarket stuff. Scott
Correct, as I mentioned before, if everything works out, this machine won't be working 40 hours per week. Probably not even 40 hours per year. And I'm certainly worried about what else might be wrong with it. Headed out there early tomorrow morning and will spend several hours checking it out in greater detail. Thanks
Bullet your video of this loader has over 35k views on YouTube so far which eclipses all of your others. Some people are sure interested in your project I would say.
Yep, it's crushed the rest of my content. The only one with more views is the baby armadillo video with 175k views, but that's a very short video that I put up nearly 3 years ago. Thanks
Don’t be frightened to use aftermarket parts.Some are poor,many are good. You will find Cat won’t offer all the parts you may require for the final drive,a non oem supplier quite possibly will be able to get them. Then there’s the cost of cat parts.Some are breathtakingly expensive,for example a Cat D8K transmission pump used to cost £2300.00 just 7 years ago.An ITR pump costs £180.00.
Thanks for the input. Scott
Compared to new trucks you'd be surprised how much that truck is worth or how handy it is
Agree. We put a muffler on the 953C back in '12 or '13 that was the Cat branded aftermarket, forget the name. Well it was significantly cheaper and still functioning on the machine. Like anything one has to do their homework.
Those were nice trucks at the time. I even remember the chrome rain vents on the windows..
Long day today. The final drive on the right (one with the damaged bearing housing) looked empty and dusty. I'm guessing one of the bellow seals let go and the oil drained out and let some dust in. I didn't think to remove the drain plug, but I will next time I'm out there. Need to confirm it was empty and see if there are any broken bits sitting at the bottom, but this was definitely a discouraging development. Got the serial number on the engine -- 53A1747 -- and looked for a serial number on the machine but just found two rivets with no tag and nothing stamped in that area. I'd be surprised if it wasn't the original engine, but don't know how to confirm with nothing stamped on the machine. Confirmed that track pitch is 8". Still not sure on parts prices and availability, but hope to make some progress on that this week. If I do end up doing the job, it really needs to be on concrete, with a forklift available, in the shade. It was 95 today, and it's not going to cool off anytime soon. More pics to follow. Thanks for all the input.
Those were the days when the machine and engine Serial numbers were the same when the machine originally left the factory. You could try looking on top of the bevel gear housing as indicated by the arrow, but it will require the seat to be removed to gain access to the area.
Thanks for the input. Scott
Yep. Texas truck. Damn near rust free. Needs a bit more work before it's road ready. Thanks
Yeah, I really need to ditch those. Thanks
Absolutely not! Those are classic.
First video hit 100k. Second video is at 23k. I'm pleased with that.
Time for a long overdue update. Several weeks ago, I ended up renting a 20’ x 50’ shop about 15 minutes from home. Added a few mini-splits, so now it has AC. Working in an air-conditioned shop on concrete has been a real game-changer. Sure helps that the machine is 15 minutes away, too, instead of 1.5 hours away. Moving the 977 to the shop set me back $800 (different driver this time) and it was uneventful. Didn’t even have to crawl up the back of the trailer like I did last time, either. Please don't make fun of my itty bitty toolbox. Just a spare that I'm using for some basic tools until I move a few of my big boxes over.
I've been spending most of my time moving the majority of my tools to the shop and getting it outfitted and organized. At the same time, I'm reconfiguring the home garage so the Long Haired General can park her new car in there (we've been married 13 years; first time she'll be parking in the garage). Work has been busy as hell, too; good for the bank account but not great for wrenching time. And we're headed to Jackson Hole on Sunday to escape the San Antonio heat for a week. I hope that's enough excuses for not getting a lot done on the 977 lately! AC is working well in the shop; I keep it set a 78 and the two 24k units are able to keep the temp at or near 78 and that's fine by me. I have managed to get some work done, however. Pulled the batteries and confirmed my fear that the box was rotted out under the 2x4's that the batteries were sitting on. No big deal, but something else to add to the list. The batteries are junk, too; won't hold a charge. They're group 31's, so something you'd see in an RV, commercial truck, etc, but not enormous, by any stretch. Certainly not nearly as large as a 4D, which I think would have been original equipment. I'm inclined to get another pair of Group 31's unless y'all think that's a bad idea.
Got under the machine a few weeks ago to remove the three belly pans; not a required task at this point, but just trying to do a more detailed inspection before I start spending $$$ on parts. Anyway, it has three belly pans. The rear pan stunk to high heaven! Might have been a dead possum in there somewhere. Kept track of the material that came out of the middle pan, I think, and it ended up being about 250 lbs. Haven't gotten to the front pan yet.
Glad I pulled the belly pans, because when I got under the machine to look around a bit, I noticed that the crossmember wasn't bolted to the roller frame on the right side like it's supposed to be; it was welded. *****. And that's the side that needs to come apart to replace the final drive. So I guess I'm going to need to do some grinding on those welds to get it apart, and then see what's under the plate that was welded to the roller frame. I'm guessing there are some snapped off bolts, and whoever put this back together figured it was easier to weld it back together than it was to remove the snapped off bolts. Just. Freaking. Awesome. Here's the left side - bolted like it's supposed to be. And here's the right side...yes, that's a crack where the crossmember is welded to the roller frame. Up next - got to get the front belly pan off and do some more inspecting underneath, drain the left final drive to make sure there are no big chunks in it, check the transmission filter to make sure the trans doesn't appear to be self-destructing, and then either rent or buy a forklift and get started on removing the right final drive.
Cost of transport crim gear oil/Lucas/12 pack have fun it's been running for 60 years you'll get it done before she fails. Can't beat the old iron
You have a strange idea of fun, but I do hope you have fun!
Yep. My real job is a desk job, so I enjoy turning wrenches and getting some dirt underneath my fingernails in my free time. Thanks
I know it's wrong to envy, but since we haven't built my shop yet, all I can say is must be nice working in that nice air conditioned building with plenty of room and a concrete floor. The fire ants, sand, sun, heat, humidity and I all say congratulations to you. And man that's a darn shame about that crossmember.
My brother put an ac in his garage/shop, world of difference.
Well, I'm 56 years old. Started off wrenching in the 1980's in a pole shed with a dirt floor. That only lasted a few years, but this is the first time I've had an air conditioned shop.
Definitely a game-changer here in Texas hill country.
sell it you will be better off there are some usable parts there
If this was purely a financial decision, it would make more sense to sell it (or keep it for parts) and buy something in better shape with a good undercarriage. But I don't always do what makes sense...
Did you get the trans filter pulled yet? How did that look? How about the right final, have you checked into sourcing a used final, what does one of those run, if you can find one? I presume you guys will tear your final apart to see about rebuilding it prior to just replacing it? Looking forward to pics/video of the inside of that.
Still haven't pulled the trans filter, but it's next on the list. Plan is to source a complete final and just swap out. I have found some; going rate seems to be $2000 - $3000. Thanks
Have you checked with Zimmerman Tractor here in MO? Zimmerman Tractor Zimmerman Tractor carries new and used crawler parts and new undercarriages. Hydraulic Hose Assemblies are also made here. Zimmerman Tractor also has crawlers for salvage. www.crawlerbulldozer.com
Wow that seems very reasonable to me. Heck I was thinking it would be a lot more than that.
Have to check my notes, but I'm pretty sure that I did. Found some stuff on the left coast, too, but looks like I'll be able to source on in Texas.
Doesn't seem to be a shortage of 977's being parted out.
They used to be everywhere growing grass in yards around here, one by one they disappear.
Have you ran out of parts? Went on vacation? Left the country? Surly some progress! VTec has slowed down, Miller’s busy backing up, you are awol. Need a good update. Texas is a fer piece from here but there’s a salvage yard just over in Illinois. Could wander over and see what they might have for you. Mike
Nope! Yep! Went to Jackson Hole, but I ended up working just about the entire trip. Wife and daughter did all the sightseeing and they said it was great! Not lately! Don't call me Shirley! I have made some progress, but work got busy as hell for a while. I'm also spending a lot of time moving my tools and stuff to the shop and getting it set up. Would prefer to have it in better shape before I do any more wrenching. And then there's the IH TD-7C that just kind of dropped in my lap... Thanks for checking in, Scott
Well, If you need any help with that, just ask.... LOL
I guess I have inherited one that kudzu has taken over..LOL
Well, unfortunately, it appears that those of y'all who tried to talk some sense into me were right. Looking more like a parts machine -
Well the collective hive is rarely wrong on these types of threads.
Next purchase of vintage yellow equipment will likely need to be smaller (something that I could haul on a gooseneck equipment trailer behind my F350 would be nice) and with better parts availability. A Cat D3 would be nice, but they're generally fairly expensive unless they're in need of a new engine.
We hate to say we told you so. BUT - we told you so, and right at the start as well........!!
Actually a D3 would make a little more sense.
The real question ia does a worn out parts machine D3 make good YT videos?
Wonder what a real good condition old D3 is worth? One that has had the engine rebuilt, clutches looked at by CAT, cylinders rebuilt and tracks in great shape. Asking for a friend
The reason I mentioned a D3 might be a better fixer upper is because they typically don't have enough power to really destroy themselves. They can still have major problems if neglected and abused but not usually the same level larger more powerful dozers and loaders have. Parts are less money but still very expensive for major components and undercarriage. Don't know if it makes a difference what size a machine is for YT video's. People love to see others spend lots of money into projects that are questionable at best. So after all is said and done what was the final $$$ tally on the 977 project? I got a lot of flack for trying to save you money and that's all I was trying to do.
Well,I suppose you don’t know if you don’t try. The only man I knew that was perfect,was Jesus…….and they nailed him to a lump of wood. That 977 has certainly nailed you. Better luck next time sir.
A D3 is no lightweight. You won't move it with your rig. More tractor than earlier D4.
D3B is around 15k, right?
In that range, maybe slightly less.
The machines that make good YT videos are really not the right machines to keep. Supposed to help a guy with getting a D69U started that hasn't been running in decades. Pony motor is free but will likely try to push-start it. It's for sale, but there are a lot of unknowns, and parts availability can't be great. My plan is just to shoot some video of it.
Sent it down the road. I learned a lot, made a few new friends, gained valuable experience, and broke even. It's all good. Scott
If you're not set on Cat, I have a John Deere 450c loader. It's about 16k pounds and it has decent parts availability. If you can find a wet clutch machine with decent under carriage they are "funish" to work on IMHO. If you're patient you can do a ton of work with them.
John Deere 350 and 450 loaders and dozers are fairly common around here. Made an offer on a JD 450 dozer about 6 months ago, but the guy wouldn't budge and he was asking too much for what he has.