I am about to service my Dresser TD7G with the Cummings Engine before I use it this month to do some log hauling and dirt moving on my farm. My question is what is the opinion of fuel or oil additives to keep this machine humming away. The interest at this time is purely preventive as I don't have any major issues presently. Are using additives like Gumout 51001 Multi-System tune up a good idea, bad idea or just a waste of money. I do have a small loss of hydraulic fluid and gear oil while in use that I have not had the time to really track down. Are any additives like Bar's leak advisable for this? Or again is that a bad idea or just a waste of money. Thanks again. RH
I never used anything, I'd just run it, as long as the fuel is reasonably fresh. Good oil and clean fuel should serve you well.
Bars leak is an emergency last resort type of product, you can find horror threads on it here. Transmission leak stop is designed to soften the old hard seals that are leaking, which isn't as bad, but it softens anything that will be softened, might not stop the leak with the old seal that's also worn and weak and riding on a worn shaft and bearings, so you take your chances. Fuel additives are a little different story. If the thing sits around long enough that the fuel ages more than the system wears out, then sometimes a cleaner can help.
I use PRI-D in diesel tanks that sit a long time without being used. On engines with mechanical fuel injection systems, I add 2 or 3 ounces of 2-cycle oil (TCW3) to a tank of fuel to keep the injection pump lubricated. The theory is that modern diesel is re-formulated for common rail injection systems. TCW3 makes them smoke a little more so don't do that when you're trying to sell a piece of equipment, LOL.
IF you have a storage tank use an additive.. the fuel will sit awhile before being used. Depending on WHAT Cummins engine your running will depend if its useful or not.. IF you decide to run ANYTHING.. get one thats MADE FOR diesel engines..w/ a CETANE booster. I'm tired of getting my azz chewed from folks that don't know sh*t, so I don't bother w/ the additive speal.. Lucas makes "a decent" injector cleaner..
On my boat with DD6-71TIs I have used Howe's Diesel Treat for years. It improves lubricity lost with the ultra low sulfur fuel and helps keep water from becoming an issue. Rick
Thanks ...I forgot to mention that I have been using Pri-D for several years now ...in all of my diesel fuel ....as well as Pri-G in all of my gas. So I am good there. But I have a new problem that just happened today. The throttle lever on the injector pump broke off ...and I just sent a message to thepumpguysc ...so please look for that as I am seeking your help there. So should I go ahead and use some Lucas injector cleaner ...even though the dozer doesn't exhibit any problems there?
When it comes to additives my thought is simply, why..? The only reason I can think of is the lubricity issue (or more correctly the lack of it) that has resulted from ultra-low sulphur fuel. If anything is serviced correctly using good quality lubricants & filters, and is filled with good clean fuel it doesn't need additives. That is IMHO and your experience may differ.
Oil additives are like taking vitamin tablets when you have a well balanced diet. That's how it was explained by a Cat rep before they sold oil so axe to grind at that time. Basically stating that additives can upset the chemical balance of the oil so it no longer works as it should.
I don't think the Lucas injector cleaner will heal up your broken throttle shaft although it is a decent cleaner . Bob
I don't know Blue.. I've seen it do some amazing stuff..LOL
Funny guys! No but thepumpguysc sure has helped! I cannot recomend him enough folks ...great stand up guy who is the kind of person this world needs more of!
The fuels and lubricants we buy, both gasoline and diesel change with the times. For example; ethanol in gasoline and less ZDDP in oils so we have to constantly research and figure out how to deal with the changes, as the mass media, refiners and government are content to keep us in the dark resulting in damage to engines. Who knows what they'll hit us with next. Internet forums are the only way we'll find out.
Agree with check! So I am getting the message about additives in general ...but what about as thepumpguysc indicated ...Lucas injector cleaner? Anyone else here using that?
Not yet but now that I know he is I'm gonna buy some.
I agree with thepumpguys' feeling about the additives spiel and the amount of debate that can come from it. But I will say a little more... Oil additives - buy good oil and change on a regular interval. If you really want to know about oil I would recommend researching everything you can and develop your own opinion. Keep this in mind - most of us will not keep records good enough to know if one oil is better than another. Only companies that run steady hours and maintenance and truly wear out an engine and have the records over years and have changed oils, have the info needed to say one oil is better than the other - or - someone who has used oil samples along with good records of conditions and hours/miles between samples and changes may have the ability to make valid arguments that one oil performed better than another. As for fuel - absolutely use clean good fuel and proper filtration. A lot of diesel, if not most diesel, has bio diesel blended with it. The bio diesel adds great lubricity. If the diesel you buy does not have bio diesel and you want to potentially make your fuel system components last longer - use an additive for that reason. If cetane boost and improved fuel economy is desired - use an additive that does that. Same for cleanliness - antigel in the winter - water in the fuel - biological (fungus and bacteria) - etc. I use Power Services Diesel Kleen and their other products, even in my 100 gallon transfer tank that I use for a skidsteer and backhoe. They taught me how to clean and reclaim (or as some say "polish") diesel and in the last five years I recovered approx. 20,000 gallons in trailer mounted and above ground tanks. Some of it looked like pond water with moss. They should have a good concise crash course on their website. And I don't work for them or make any money from them in any way. I have made a lot of money repairing machinery (especially generators) that were running bad fuel, but none of them after I established a fuel maintenance program for the company that owned all the generators(hundreds of generators and light towers). There is a lot of bad and inaccurate information out there - if you plan on owning any diesel engine during the rest of your life, you will benefit from understanding the ways that diesel can be a problem as related to different types and fuel systems and storage methods. All of this from a guy who doesn't change his duramax fuel filter for 30 to 50k miles - after cutting a few of them open, I figured why bother - if I don't put crap in - I don't get it in my filter.
Very well said, 03HDRK.. The main problem "I'M SEEING" in the last few years {5-7} is w/ ag & construction equipment & Bio-Fuel.. The fuel/ equipment "SITS" & gells & gums-up the internal workings of the injection system.. It "USE TO BE" low lube fuel, eating up pump housings in consumer CARS..{VW} & a $500.00 pump hsg on EVERY repair.. & the occasional "low lube" fuel at the airport, where they were using JP fuel, which required a pump hsg. change.. AND it was locking-up their electric lift pumps.. I can usually tell what the problem is when I receive a pump for repair, without ever opening the box.. I can SMELL the Bio THRU THE BOX.. I don't think you'll EVER SEE a product hit the market that says>> "COUNTER ACTS THE EFFECTS OF BIO FUEL." Mainly because, according to the gov't.. there are no ill effects..!!! Just remember> "I'm from the Government & I'm here to help".. Lol
I do not understand why these additives are needed for construction equipment. They are needed for cars, where a DPF, EGR, Ad Blue and others for the environment are installed. The main thing is good oil and fuel (cetane does not greatly affect the commercial engine) and frequent replacement of filters, + additional water separator. All the rest is a waste of money. Sulfur in the fuel harms only the passenger car, for construction equipment it is good, lubricates the fuel system. If oil flows, then this is a technical problem. Additives will not help.
For those of us who work in parts of the world with "normal" sulphur levels in the diesel fuel I would agree. However in the US especially the latest ultra-low sulphur diesel (ULSD) has almost no sulphur in it, less than 15ppm if my memory serves me correctly. For fuels like that it is important to add something to the fuel that makes up for the lack of lubrication resulting from using ULSD.
In Russia there is a standard for diesel fuel EN-509. The maximum sulfur content is 10 ppm. However, already sold fuel with sulfur content 3 ppm. We have a very "dry" diesel.
I certainly don't intend to turn this into a lubricity is or is not, is needed or is not... debate. But since I tend to be long winded I may have "muddied" my points. Bio diesel adds lubricity but also adds food for fungus and bacteria(which ends up looking like algae) - especially when water is present. Not saying that diesel with no bio fuel will not grow stuff... it can. The lubricity standard used for fuel oils, which includes diesel, it know as the HFRR test(High Frequency Reciprocating Rig) - where a ball bearing is rubbed against a steel plate for a set amount of time under a set amount of pressure submerged in the oil being tested. The scars on the steel plate are then measured (width if I remember correctly). All of this - the machine(rig) ball and plate are made for this test. Now imagine having a fuel pump that can compress fuel to the pressures required in a common rail injection system - then an injector tip that has to stop that pressure. Lubrication IS important. If you don't think so - run motor oil in your pickup differential and see what happens. The additives in the different brands of gear oils can be the difference between longevity and quick failure. Many of the additives in these oils are minerals (like sulfur is a mineral) I think calcium and magnesium are some of the ones used. The oil companies try to keep these proprietary for obvious reasons. The pump guy I am sure, can tell us the pressures in an old school pencil injector fuel system compared to a High Pressure Common Rail or even a Hydraulic Electric Unit Injector(HEUI) like in a Power Stroke or my Cat 3126. Water will get into any fuel tank - the more air that is in the tank for a period of time the worse it is - when you see dew on the ground, there is a chance that condensation took place inside your tank - many factors come into play - but if the air in the tank reaches it's dewpoint you will have water. Diesel can hold a certain amount of moisture without being seen, but it is very small amount. Keep your tanks sealed, except when sucking fuel out or putting fuel in to reduce the amount of air traveling in and out of your tanks - the standard fuel tank cap (for transfer tanks) at Tractor Supply is a Pressure Vacuum valve if used correctly. I have solved many fuel issues with this knowledge, hope it helps. Bottom line, fuel additives can help and do help most fuel systems. It is very hard to have the info needed to know how much, because doing a valid study on a piece of equipment is near impossible.
I run Schaeffer Diesel Treat in EVERYTHING diesel,have been for years. In the well documented diesel additive study on the Diesel Place, Schaeffer was in the top 5 of all the treatments entered. GREAT stuff that has never let me down,308K miles on my LBZ Duramax now with the original and still going strong injectors.
I to use Diesel Place. You may be referring to the 40 to 50 page thread that I was active in a few years ago. I thought I would get a new lubricity study done by organizing and doing a little research. I found that the HFRR test was too expensive and the work was more than I wanted to tackle. I have not looked at the thread in a while, but I am sure it is still going. I think that there are other places on the web where the study done was in question because of the way the sample were sent in from the manufacturers in some cases. I use the Id draymorris on other sites. My post on my injector saga "with a surprising outcome" gives some of the experiences that I base by opinions on regarding injectors, fuel and fuel additives. You getting that many miles on injectors is great. I know of many people that can say they too have that longevity in their old Duramaxes. I drive a 04 Chevy 3500 and have no intentions of getting anything different. Since this site is about equipment, I would like to say that I believe that there are some difference in our views and opinions regarding fuel in equipment and fuel in our pickups: I think that because most equipment is owned by someone who makes money with the equipment, and many times is not the person running the equipment, and...does not keep documentation keeping up with the costs of operating each machine because they are too busy doing other things --- most would not even consider treating the large amounts of fuel they use. Also, most don't know that concentrated less costly treatments may be available for large quantities. Also, many, if not most fuel sales people, play-off treating fuel - " why would you want to treat something that does not need it" is what most salesmen would say. But a large distributor hear in N TX has teamed up Power Services and delivers treated fuel and include a tank maintenance program if you buy that fuel. If I remember correctly, the concentrated PS Diesel Kleen cost me about .01 cent per gallon. I have to buy it at a fuel distributor. No one can easily determine efficiency in heavy machinery. I could go on and on, but I need to go for now.
Have to watch fuel additive additions, if adding at half/third of tank remaining can easily over dosage the fuel and end up with material precipitation. Have been dealing with a 3406E that fouled a pair of fuel filters RAPIDLY, found out the owner was doping the fuel rather excessively with Schaeffer's and it got out of hand. I was thinking bio slipped in or a batch of old fuel that had already algae bloomed but in the net result have come to the conclusion he just OD'd on additive. I was running tanks down to 1/4 or less then adding SLIGHTLY LESS THAN recommended for the load being added as there was already additive in that tank. He was adding 10-20% MORE than recommended for fuel being added thinking was doing a good thing. I would get in the truck after he had been using and loaded it up additive wise. Fuel right now sucks, the EPA has removed Most of the Sulphur along with the BTU value then the distillers had to reformulate to get a desired lubricity once failures started showing out. Sulphur besides a BTU content was also a suspended lubricant in the fuel, EPA idiots just cannot look beyond their own noses and 'Estimations' according to what I see as a junk science.