I have two questions related to a 2001 CAT 262 skid steer (serial number CED00263). One is a fuel injection question and the other is an engine compression question. First the fuel injection question. I have a video to attach, but was unable to attach it to this post so I will just try to explain it. The engine for the most part (this is a Perkins engine) is unable to start on its own unless the engine is warm to hot. I disconnected the fuel injection lines yesterday and had a very small small amount of fuel flow and pressure from each line. I was expecting high fuel pressure and a descent amount of fuel flow. It appears to me that the fuel injection pump needs to be replaced and I would just like to verify with the group. Please advise if I am incorrect in my thoughts concerning this. Also, I did compression tests on all four cylinders and found the following pressures starting on the cylinder nearest the back of the machine: Cylinder #1 - 185 psi Cylinder #2 - 220 psi Cylinder #3 - 345 psi Cylinder #4 - 330 psi My Cat dealer said they should be between 355 - 427 PSI. Number 3 and 4 cylinders I am not worried about. Is it probable that the issue with #1 and #2 cylinders is a stuck ring or a valve issue? Is it worth a try to use Marvel Mystery oil to try get the pressures up on these two cylinders (possible stuck rings)? Thank you in advance for your help.
You would have been better posting in the skid steer section where more people with the relevant experience would see it but no worries I’ll ask for it to be moved. You can’t attach videos but you can upload a video to YouTube and then link it to a post. Try setting the valves for a start.? You have a lot of other fuel system testing to do before you go anywhere near the injection pump for no other reason than they are very expensive. Have you done any fuel-related testing yet.?
Thank you, Nige. I will look for the post in the skid steer section. The only other fuel testing work that has been done is the fuel water filter has been replaced? Can you advise what other fuel testing I need to do before looking at the fuel injection pump?
Don’t do anything. I have asked for this thread to be moved. It will be once a mod sees it.
Drain the water and sediment from the fuel tank. Make sure the tank cap is not sucking a vacuum. Make sure the fuel lines are clear & unobstructed. Check that the electric fuel priming pump runs when you turn the key on. There might be a trash screen somewhere just before the transfer pump. I’ll have to check in that one. Make sure that all the o-rings are all present and correct on the filter element below the pump. If @heymccall sees this I’m sure he’ll link to a thread somewhere with all the relevant information & illustrations.
Sorry, got this one wrong. You have a mechanical fuel transfer pump. See the attachment for the fuel lines that shows the number of restrictive fittings there are. Every last one of them needs to be disassembled, cleaned, & inspected. You also need to remove every last fitting from the head of the fuel filter assembly and blow through every passage in it with compressed air.
You also need to measure the pressure being generated by the fuel transfer pump. This should be in the range of 6-10psi with the engine running (try it at both low & high RPM to see if it makes any difference) with an absolute minimum of 4.5psi. It may also pay you to dig into the transfer pump while you have the fuel lines apart and look for anything that could be restricting fuel flow.
Thank you for the additional, Nige. I am attaching a link to YouTube so you can see the fuel flow pressure and volume. I would like to get your opinion about it. The video shows the injector line going to the back cylinder. CAT 262 fuel flow video
I hope someone else chimes in but I can't see anything in that video. All I can hear is an engine cranking. When I said fuel pressure I meant measured using a pressure gauge. TBH until you have done all the stuff mentioned in posts 5, 6 & 7 above you are jumping ahead of yourself.
I understand what you mean about getting ahead in the troubleshooting process. I was hoping that by viewing the video, you could tell me if the small amount of fuel that is coming out of the metal fuel injection line is normal. The fuel that is coming out is at the end of the line that is touching the gold compression tester fitting and is going into the red rag. It is partially obscured by the curving metal line above it.
I just watched the video .. Unless the fuel coming out of the line is blowing the rag around, its not enough.. On the bright side, the starter is working GREAT.!!
I thought those fuel pulses looked normal, for one injection line (look at the wet spot on the red rag). I don't normally take the lines off and check, just loosen the nut enough to bleed air until it squirts a little bit. There won't be much pressure because there's nothing blocking the fuel flow, and there's not that much volume, remember that volume will be pumped 6-20 times per second when running, it takes very little fuel volume per cylinder to make a lot of power. The starter is running great because there's low compression on half the cylinders. You could try a leak down test on those two, use compressed air to see if the air is escaping the other cylinder, or intake, exhaust, or crankcase breather. The compression number isn't that important because measuring is subject to variation anyway, but they should be similar. You're exactly right, you have two cylinders that are fine, and two that have something wrong. I wouldn't touch the injection pump until you figure that out. You can hear it just from the starter cranking sound. Fuel volume and pressure isn't really measured FROM the injection pump (by mere mortals anyway), fuel supply and pressure TO the injection pump is important, and what you would measure if the injection pump is suspect, but I don't think it is.
Thank you, Delmer for the information. I will do the cylinder leak down test. I am just trying to figure out why it won't start unless ether is used. But once it starts, it runs fine. I am a first time skid steer owner and was just trying to get something reasonably priced to use at our land and now it appears that we bought a piece of equipment with several problems. I wanted a skid steer so badly that I made many mistakes. I did not do proper diligence before buying it and was told so many lies by the seller that it is sickening. So now I am hoping I can get the machine where it will start normally and then decide whether to keep it or put it up for sale and let prospective buyers know what I know about it. On top of it, our land and the machine is 80 miles away from our house and I only get to work on it maybe 4 hours a week on the weekend. I am just filling in the backstory with this post as to why I am on here asking questions about it. I appreciate all the input that I have been provided.
Sounds like head gasket is blown between 1 and 2 cylinder
You should try not using ether to start it, its hard on piston tops, pock marks, detonation. You never mentioned anything about glow plugs working or not. My 3 cyl perkins always needs a few seconds of glow plugs to get running, when cold, even indoors, and it runs perfect. Of course the other way to look at that statement, I guess , is maybe mine has 2 low cyls as well. I never checked. But it has plenty of power. And doesn't burn a drop of oil.
2 cylinders with weak compression is more than likely that problem. The ether is kick starting those cylinders.
Thank you, Arny. I have heard that before and have avoided starting it because of this. I have replaced all 4 glow plugs and also became aware of the need to hold down the glow plug button in the cab for 10 to 20 seconds before trying to start it. When I took the glow plugs out again when doing the compression checks, I could see the black soot on the end of each glow plug. This was after Nige pointed me in the direction of the yellow wire that needed to connect to the glow plug bus bar. I was hoping that after connecting the yellow wire and replacing the glow plugs that maybe it would start normally, but it didn't. That is when I turned my attention to a possible fuel issue. So now, when I go out to the land this weekend, I am going to start performing the steps Nige outlined above in relation to a possible fuel delivery issue as I am not sure what to try next.
Whatever you do, don't glow plug AND use ether at the same time.
I won’t. Thank you.
I thought about that also and may have to look at that later if the fuel troubleshooting suggestions from Nige don’t solve the starting issue. One good note about a possible head gasket problem is that when I changed the oil after first getting the machine, it was not a milky color at all.
Are the glow plugs getting power? Get someone to press the glow plug button and use a test light on the glow plugs and see if they are getting power.
Milky oil would only happen if the gasket had failed between a cylinder and a coolant passage. If it failed directly between two cylinders it would result in a loss of compression but there probably would not be any coolant in the oil. Are you needing to add coolant on a regular basis.?
I have not been able to run the engine long enough yet to answer that. When we first bought the machine, the hydraulic fan motor was bad, which we didn’t know. The first time using the loader after getting it back to our land, hydraulic fluid was getting sprayed everywhere over the engine and engine compartment when the engine cooling fan came on. That explained why the engine compartment was so dirty. I have replaced the hydraulic fan motor and the machine now needs hydraulic fluid due to losing so much fluid through the faulty fan motor. I want to drain whatever remaining hydraulic fluid is in the machine before adding the new fluid. That brings me to what I am working on now and the next issue. We went and bought 10 gallons of the Caterpillar Hydo 10 hydraulic fluid. I have spent about 6 hours trying to unloosen the nuts and bolts holding the cab down so I can drain the remaining hydraulic fluid. I haven’t been able to get them loose due to extremely difficult access to the nut underneath and rust. I have tried PB Blaster, impact wrench, cheater bar, heat, and sawzall to try to cut across the bolts. The sawzall seems like the only chance, but when using the blade it is getting coated in rubber from the rubber shock absorbing donut between the cab and frame. When we go out there this next weekend, I am going to work on this issue and also perform some of the fuel troubleshooting recommendations that have been suggested.
Will do. Thanks for the recommendation.