i have a Newholland ec 15 with a small 3 cylinder Diesel . I made the mistake of renting it to a friend of my sons for the weekend ( cheaply) and it came back not running right, with water in the fuel I’ve been fighting with it for a couple weeks, I’ve changed the filters drained the tank a couple times, the last time I flushed the tank with menthol alcohol, pumped it through the filters then drained it out and pumped fuel with some Kleen flow fuel conditioner in it, then connected the lines up and started it. It ran perfectly so I thought I had it fixed so I went out into the field next to our shop and put it to work, it was working well then started bogging out under heavy load then stalling, from there I had a hard time getting it back inside. My question is should I keep trying to clean the fuel supply ( it seems clean to me ) or is it time to pull the injector pump and injectors? Any help before I call my mobile mechanic would be appreciated, I’m still hoping for a do it yourself fix.
I'd give the filters another try.. BUT..It sounds as if the damage is already done.. IF that didnt work..I'd pull the pump & injectors.. .. drain the tank completely & change the filters & hope for some help w/ the bill.
I have had many, many customer engines of that size and style filled with water, gallons of water, pure water all the way to the injectors, so much that when attempting to restart you could see water mist instead of fuel mist pumping out the exhaust. So far it has not wrecked a pump or injector on one of them, though there is always a first time. I'm sure if you did not repair it right away all the little lapped parts would begin to rust badly. I would pull the filters and check for more water, pump out the fuel supply line into a clear container and check for water and general cloudiness, etc. The fact that it ran right for a little while gives some hope. I like to wash tanks out with gasoline, cheap and plentiful, then dry them with compressed air to be sure they are completely clean, dry and empty (beware of flammable mixture of air/gasoline) Blow out the fuel lines so that there is not one speck of liquid in the system. Then give it another go.
Of course I think this thing also has the silly Yanmar proprietary injection pump that TPG hates so maybe that does not like water so well. Are the injection lines arranged in a triangle (circle) or inline?
It’s a Mitsubishi If it is the pump and injectors what will of happened to it to make it fail? I guess now it doesn’t matter I’m just curious.
Ok, you are in luck, those are easy to work on and I did this job on the exact engine model you have about 4 weeks ago [in a generator], looks like a S3L2. Once I pumped the 10+ gallons of water out of the tank and purged the one I was working on, it ran fine. That injection pump setup is about as simple as you can get. There is a cam with 3 lobes and it pumps the individual pump elements at the correct timing and there is a single lever to the rack to control fuel delivery, that's it. So make sure it is getting solid fuel to the pump inlet, if it is still troublesome 4 bolts and the pump body comes off, maybe dump it out and refill with clean fuel and try one more time before shipping it to TPG. Last one I did was for leaking but the shop told me there was rust in the delivery valves from past water contamination, and I believe it knowing the installation.
Trade>> if THATS a pic of the pump & engine.. its a very simple setup like BV said.. What ever you do.. do not loosen the top nuts on the pump.. The injectors are very inexpensive to fix..rebuild.
If you have to take the pump off & never done it before.. heres afew procedures.. Take the shut off solenoid off 1st.!!! it screws into the block to the LEFT of the inj. pump.. looks like 1/2 a beer can. Take the side plate off, under the pump, to get a better look at "things".. The rest is self explanatory. 4 nuts/bolts holding it down.. No timing required.. {steel shims under the pump}
I'd guess the problem is between the tank and the injection pump, that could possibly include the pickup in the tank and a banjo bolt or inlet screen on the injection pump. I'd pull it all apart and look THROUGH every hose and fitting, then see how it runs under load. Or inspect from the injection pump to filter and hook to a temporary tank to see what happens.
I finally got time this morning to put a temporary tank on,I taped it to the rops cab. It ran well and only got better the longer it ran, so tomorrow morning I’m going to start stripping off covers to get to the pump and make sure everything is clean and clear. It has to be either the electric pump or a fuel line causing the problem. Is there a simple way ( without testing equipment) to determine if the pump is putting up enough preasure?
I'd see what kind of volume the pump puts out now to the injection pump, then take everything apart, like every fitting loose and blown out, and every steel line blown out individually. then see what kind of volume the pump puts out. If it still doesn't run right under load, take as much of the pump apart as possible. Don't forget the inlet in the tank could be plugged up with all the garbage that was growing in that water.
It is hard to see from your 1 picture but the injection pump has a banjo bolt that often has 2 fittings. The smaller, higher one is the return to tank teed in with the injector bleed lines. Turn on the electric pump with a jumper wire or something and you should get a steady stream of fuel going back into the tank from this line whenever the pump is on. It is a constant bleed from the injector pump to allow any air to be quickly purged.
Well I’m broken hearted, I pulled every line off blew them out with the compressor pulled both filters gave them a thorough cleaning pulled the fuel gage out so Icould see in the top of the tank, pulled the bung out of the bottom of the tank, gave the tank a good swishing with methal alcohol, I could see the bottom of the tank it was shiny, I filled the primary filter with fuel conditioner, put a couple gallons of fresh fuel in the tank then pumped the fuel through the line and filters, connected the line to the pump, cracked the bleed screw and pumped fuel till it ran clear then started it up. I ran it for 10 or 15 minutes in the shop straining the hydraulics, perfect it never offered to stall out. So I put most of the panels and the seat on and went outside to dig, ok it’s working fine then started stalling out then I had to restart it 3 time to get back inside. Question - fuel pump - injector pump - or injectors If it was a high production machine that I depended on I’d just do all three and have it done with but it’s just a piece of equipment that we use for ourselves occasionally. Although I’d like it back together if it takes a couple more weeks to feel my way through it and save a few bucks I’m ok with that.
If If you had it running from another tank, that rules out the injectors and injector pump, doesn't it?
I hope so but I ran it in the shop this morning as long as I ran it on the bottle yesterday.
The injection pump is 3 pumping elements in a single chunk of cast iron. On some engines they are in 3 separate places. Unless they are all failing at the same time there is a fuel supply problem still. Does the injection pump inlet banjo bolt have a return hose back to tank (2 hose nipples) or just the inlet? Clear hose to observe for bubbles might be the thing.
There is a return line from the pump
Run it to a bucket and see what it is doing when the trouble starts.
This electric pump is the next most suspicious thing to me. You know it had crap go through it, if you can't clear the crap out, then test the pump, or replace it.
Does it have the Mitsubishi electric pump that looks like a top hat with 2 lines coming out the side of the barrel of the main body? My advice is to never use cheap parts house electric pumps but go OE. The one I use is well north of $200 but I have hardly ever seen one fail. I'm not sure about the Mitsubishi one whether it is any good. There are a lot of cheap knockoffs of it on ebay though.
Presumably you connected the remote tank before the injection pump? If so, and it ran fine like that, then the problem lies between your connection point, and the tank. And if you've cleared the lines, that leaves the lift pump. I'm no diesel mechanic, but that's the conclusion I'm drawing.
What kiwi said.. Really depends on WHERE you hooked the bottle up to.. did you run it before the lift pump & let the lp push the fuel up to the inj. pump?? Or did you run the bottle right into the back of the inj. pump & let gravity do the pushing?? Did you run the bottle fuel thru any of the filters?? My thinkin is, you got to many filters & not enough lift pump..& your starving the inj. pump..{poor little thing,Lol}
update , I have a new after market pump on the way , I tore the old one apart hoping for an awhaw moment but there where no big chunks of dirt in it, the only thing might be that the diaphragm looked like it might be a little dried out. As well I was helping a friend out on the week-end and he suggested to first put the pick up line directly into the fuel tank to eliminate any fuel line problems from pump to tank and check the tank vent, he said when it was starving out after 15 minutes the tank might not be venting. I should get the pump tomorrow and hopefully I can get it back on line tomorrow night, I would like it back to work the end of this week. Thanks for all your help and suggestions. PS. you would likely be entertained watching a carpenter lying on his back under this little machine cussing at it like it understood.
Lol.. The only people that cuss more than a carpenter/framer>> is their wives.. Lol I sure hope you get this figured out.. Do you have any links as to the pump you bought? Not all pumps are equal.. some put out more pressure than others.. & that's not always a good thing, depending on the pump model.. YOUR PUMP only requires 1-3psi at the pump inlet.. you would be ok w/ say, 10.. but anything over that & your asking for trouble.. Its strange.. the LOWER you go on the psi scale, the more expensive the electric lift pumps are. You might say to yourself, 1-3psi aint sh*t.. Well, your right.. BUT its the VOLUME of fuel at the inlet.. The lift pump is supplying the VOLUME of fuel.. & when its weak or not working, the inj. pump cant PULL the fuel it needs, all the way from the tank, thru all those filters.. especially if they're dirty or clogged.. {get it?} That's why you see a lot of threads about> it runs good at IDLE but when I put a load on it or move the throttle, it dies.. It takes VERY LITTLE fuel to IDLE a motor.. it takes ALOT of fuel to RUN one.. On YOUR machine, it only takes 8-11cc's of fuel to idle.. it takes 65cc's to run it at full load..
I had one of these with a bad lift pump, way, way out in the woods. I blocked off the injection pump constant bleed line, bypassed the lift pump with a piece of hose, and had it running where the injection pump was directly pulling from the tank about 4' below itself. It ran this way starting and stopping as needed for a couple weeks until we could get back out there. It was a little low on power, stationary generator set.
I got confused w/ my "helping" again..Dammit.. this seems to be happening a lot lately.. Its either ME or everybody is taking to dam long to fix their crap.?? The supply fuel should be in the 10psi range for that little PFR pump.. not the 1-3 psi range.
Well, I just looked.. It aint me.!!! {Thank God} July 23rd is when this thread started..
Yehaw! Got the new pump in, worked the crap out of it for 15 to 20 min at a higher throttle than I normally run, it seemed good. I’m not sure if I am imagining or not but it maybe had a little more zip than normal, I guess it would if the pump was failing. I would have liked to put it to work on a real job for a couple hours first but a friend that I trade favours with needed it to dig some footings in his barn so he picked it up just after I got it back together, best thing is he is a Diesel mechanic, and runs around 20 cattle pots, so if it gives trouble it’s at a good place.
My normal day starts at around 6:30 am. I take 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour for supper then generally get back to the house between 8:30 and 9:00 pm. Doesn’t leave a lot of time for screwing around with a piece of equipment I use only occasionally. I do appreciate the help from all on here to help me diagnose the problem, I’m just glad it was on the cheaper end of the fuel system. I normally have a mobile tech. fix my equipment and he is good to get me going when it’s critical but he knew this wasn’t a rush job and wasn’t giving me much help.
No mechanic wants to work on a sucking air fuel pump problem, they are the worst, as you discovered. I had one a couple months back, customer kept bringing it back, turned out he was running it low on fuel tilted away from the pickup on a long low flat fuel tank. I told him to tilt it the other way or fill it higher and never heard about it again.