Howdy all! I am looking for some advice on a Galion 503G, it's used at a museum I help out at. It was plowing some snow yesterday, and suddenly failed to proceed. Clutch works fine, and can shift through all gears, but some slipping and grinding noises from the transmission. I pull off the rear trans cover to see the ring gear and found a damaged ring and pinion gear, and some pieces of both in the transmission bottom. This machine does have a manual, with a hand written note of: "PN: 70077951, Ring and Pinion shaft and gears are the same as used in Allis Chalmers crawlers "D" and "DD" anbd Fiat Allis grader "M65"" Is this correct? Any ideas on where to find new gears?! I also have some photos of the transmission casting below too:
Here are some that are dismantled for parts, and if you have the part numbers you can look them up on this site as well under the Parts tab: https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/dismantled-machines/galion/503/construction-equipment
You could try this site, they advertise new aftermarket 70077951 ring and pinion gear. FIAT ALLIS 70077951 GEAR + PINION - Buy Aftermarket Parts Shop online for GEAR + PINION FIAT ALLIS part number 70077951 at warehouse-direct price. Get this part in North America, South America & worldwide. buyaftermarketparts.com
As far as I know the transmission/axle are the same as the AC D and DD graders. Only real difference I know of is the hydraulic pump is driven off the engine on the AC machines, rather than off the end of the top transmission shaft. Not sure if the chain cases are the same but that doesn't matter in this case.
Ok, thanks guys, I am on the hunt for the parts! Will update later with progress etc.
It's a slow hunt for the ring and pinion gear, I may have found one used one. Seeking any leads on it! Does anyone know what the marks on the transmission casting are the reverse and forward "F" and the "CF" shaped marks? I have a good manual on how to dis-assemble the transmission, but other then intuition no guide to remove from the grader. Any ideas on info/videos on that? Thanks!!
The marks are simply foundry casting marks, either identifying the foundry where it was cast or some internal company casting ID system. Ring gear and pinion removal is major, major surgery. You'll need some heavy lifting gear. Normally with most graders, the chain cases have to come off, to get the axles out. Not sure about the Galion as to how the axles can be removed, a manual is pretty necessary. You'll need to study up on how best the transmission can come out, I'd suggest a floor or transmission jack could be the best way to get it out.
It may be a little easier to handle because a 503 isn't a full size grader, more a mid size grader.
The tandem cases have a round plate that can be unbolted to pull the axles.
Yup, that's the plan! Leave the trans in the grader, pull the axles from the spool/carrier to remove the ring gear. Then hopefully I can remove drive gears and reverse idler from the pinion shaft, and pull the pinion gear out the back of the transmission. Minimal tear down. I should be able to work on it this Sunday.
look up machinery trader and go to dismantled machines they show 3 there
Well here are the damaged gears. Anyone have an idea on why these failed this way?
Well, tooth set misaligment caused by worn bearings is high on the list. The ring gear teeth broken on the heel is a fairly good indicator of tooth set misalignment, with excessive pinion teeth load moving to the heel of the ring gear teeth, causing the ring gear teeth to fracture at that point. There may have been unsatisfactory tooth meshing on the original installation. IH manuals usually have clear and pictorial instructions on setting the tooth contact area in the centre of the teeth - with the pictorial section showing unsatisfactory contact points at the ends of the teeth, and a satisfactory contact point, in the centre of the teeth. Housing distortion or displacement is another potential area where the tooth misalignment may have started. Was there any indication of the transmission having moved in its relative location to the final drive housing? Were there any loose transmission attachment bolts?
Shock loading would be another issue, people tend to hit immovable objects in the subgrade from time to time...stumps, rocks, manholes or curbs plowing snow...chip a tooth and then that piece breaks another, plus operator abuse.
Ok thanks guys, bearing replacements will happen as well. Once I get some new or used gears, alignment, contact and backlash will be set up. I have not set gears like this, but have found lots of resources on them, and used to precision measurement as I was a CNC machinist for over 10 years.
Some more thoughts too. Transmission and final drive are a one piece cast housing so no mis-alignment between them. I did find some hand tight bolts on the axle housing to chain case connections, gasket sealant seemed to be holding a few bolts tight. The original manuals that came with the grader have a hand written note in the front cover with the part numbers for the ring/pinion, my suspicion is they have had a problem/replacement some time in the machines history maybe. I have also contacted the salvage yards on Machinery Trader listings, only 1 of the 3 has actually replied unfortunately.
sorry I am a bit late with this answer. I have done a few of these 503s. I am now retired. Yes the allis is useable. from memory the ratio is slightly different. but not a problem.I have a used cw and pinion but I am a long way from you, I am sure you will find one . If you need any tech details I probably still have them somewhere
Ok, thanks Max! I sent you a message with a question too. This is how the 503 looks now.
Good looking machine. Shame it doesn't have moldboard shift. Are those wheelie bars on the back?
It's in good condition, but doesn't have many of the options that were available. Rear bumper/storage/hitch does look odd, but worked great to push the machine into the garage!
Big update on this Galion, member here max mac got us a set of gears, and I finally have time to get them in the machine. I am wondering about a few issues I have found though, big one being the ring gear carrier flange is distorted, like a bent bicycle wheel. With the ring gear carries in the machine, I have 0.078" runout on the outer most part of the flange, 0.035" on the inner diameter of the flange, and .15" on the ring gear "hub" diameter. Any ideas on how this bent/warped/moved? You can see the mating pattern on the old ring gear and the carrier flange too. I am wondering if it would be a bad idea to face the ring gear carrier flange square in a lathe, and have a thick shim made go between the ring gear and its now thinner mounting flange.
To clarify, I want to machine this flange with the blue line square to the bearings, and flat, might have to take off 0.050" I suspect. And then make a thick shim to space the ring gear back to its position. It is wavy like a spring washer right now.
First put an accurate straight-edge across the crown gear and check it for flatness on the mounting surface to make sure it is not dished. I would only use a shim as a last resort if there is no other way to compensate for material removed. A better way would be to shim the bearings if possible
I would be avoiding taking any material off a flange that has already indicated it's prone to warping. My preference would be to build up the low spots with some silver brazing alloy, and then machine the flange flat.
Would build up using metal spraying and machining back to size be an option.?
I've never had any success with plasma-sprayed metal on crankshaft rebuilds - they always failed when the sprayed metal peeled off. Not sure if it was an engine-specific problem (Komatsu HD465-1 engines), or if the plasma-spray operator had deficient processes. But I have never used plasma-spray rebuilds for crankshafts for the last 30 years. However, in a situation such as the ring gear flange, where there's no surface movement between the plasma-sprayed metal and the ring gear, I believe that process would probably be quite suitable.
What about O/A torch sprayed buildup? It works really good for shaft buildup and I think would work on the flange. Set it up in a lathe or on a turn table to spin slowly, heat it up evenly and spray the powder.
Big update here, she is all back together an running! I did end up making a "shim" to put the ring gear in the proper place after machining down the wobble in the ring gear carrier. Glad it is now out of the shop space! Thanks for everybody's input and help.