Looking for some input on the best way to get as flat a surface as possible on my 1/4 mile flat track. I'd say 85% is real close but there are a couple spots that still hold water. The lowest spot in the middle where water pools is maybe 1-1/2" low but others are only about 3/4". I have a landplane for the tractor and landscape rake with gauge wheels. Not sure what would be best? The surface should work up easy after the winter and I have a heavy H beam with backhoe teeth that works like a heavy harrow. Is it best to leave it settled or work it up so it will be real loose to drag around. Maybe working it up and just pulling a drag harrow around or turning the harrow upside down? Like I said it's real close and I'm hoping to just level off the material that's there instead of adding more fill. I could add more fill though. Don't want to have to get a grader in and don't mind just doing laps and figure 8's leveling it a little more with each pass.
We have pretty good luck using a box blade behind a farm tractor . HeavyEquipmentForums My advice if you want to get rid of the water puddles is put some grade in the track one way or the other so it will drain off . Little bank in the curves & crown on strait sections of the track . Make a grade perfectly level and you will have water standing all over the place .
I have a box blade with a hinged tailgate but without gauge wheels is much harder to get super level. The surface is a little higher so there is only standing water in the low spots. I think there could be a slight slope too. Your video doesn't show much and looks like it's pretty smooth to begin with. I think what I'm doing is a little more involved than something like a driveway because of area I'm trying to level. About 1/4 mile long and 65' wide which is about 86,000 sq. ft. The guy with the dozer has done lots of pads and I think it was harder for him to get it as level too even using a laser to shoot elevations. It's real close, I just want it closer.
Actually if you could get a grader on it once, it would be easier to maintain with a drag. I grade a haul road once a year for a peatmoss company. Once I get a good shape to it, they look after it with their own drag for the rest of the year. A trip around your track by a good grader man, and you're good for years with your own drag
I would think you need something with some length. Think on the order of a road grader. It would be pretty easy to build something with some 20 or 30 ft beams and a blade in the middle. That would level out your high spots.
Pull type box blade with hydraulic tilt...as wide as you can pull....you can put a cheap laser kit on it...be 1/4 inch most of the time and very quick
I'm probably missing something . You cats are racing motorcycles on the dirt correct ? Why does the track have to be perfectly level ?
By that logic why grade your driveway smooth? It's flat track not MX and you want it consistent without bumps and ripples that can mess with the bike. Riders want to concentrate on going fast and setting up for the corners rather than having to be cautious on a uneven section coming into a corner. Having your suspension unload because of a dip at 70-80 MPH wouldn't be ideal. A consistent track makes for better racing because a rider can go anywhere instead of having to avoid sketchy sections. Hoping to run carts on it as well with not much ground clearance. Also don't want big puddles when it rains. Several small puddles are better than one big one and will dry faster. The worst area is about 50' diameter and 1-1/2" low at the center. I wish there was something like self-levelling dirt. LoL
Hey Dave, if you mate gives you more grief turn the flat track into a jet sprint track. That will be self leveling.
The way I see it there are a few different options 1) long wheelbase: grader or a long land plane like theweldor said, 20-30' long, and I'd say wheels at the back and the front mounted on your three point arms (not top link) so you can lift and reverse. 2) laser hydraulic controlled blade or short plane 3) eyeball it and take down the high spots with the landplane you have. Do it at dusk, or after dark with headlights shining across the surface, or just mark it that way and come back in the daylight to move the dirt. The drainage is a separate issue entirely, it sounds like you have to make up your mind if you want a slope with puddle in the middle, or you want it dead flat with puddles all over.
Here's what they use at Chuchill Downs . Wish I could find a better picture of the setup . Kind of a leveling drag of sorts . That track is flat with a mixture of river sand , silt & clay . Always interesting watching them prep the track between races in all weather conditions . https://www.kentuckyderby.com/
If you put a little crown in it you could push the water to the edges
How"bout you fill "the hole" in. Look's like maybe 30 yds3. Put some wannabe's out there with rakes. Keep them on the payroll as they will be needed after every race. Maybe I've got the wrong picture. I see twenty or so motorcycles at 70MPH converging on a three foot "sweet spot" sideways. That's how I remember it anyway.
Another tool we use for grading & finish work …….. Now hang on fellers this is one is pretty complex & ahead of it's time . 1972 Ford 4000 loader tractor with 8 foot disc & chain a rail tie behind it to help bust up the clods and level out the dirt . Disc works great for opening up & drying out heavy / wet dirt with a little sun and wind . Farm tractor also works good for compacting material . Even grade the driveway with the 4000 once in awhile . LOL ! Don't overlook a farm tractor for multitasking type jobs .
I've got a farm tractor with a 3 pt. hitch, a landplane, landscape rake and a box blade. The box blade is much harder to get really level. I was wondering if I should work the soil up first and if the landscape rake (York rake) with gauge wheels would be better to use or if the landplane with 2 blades on an angle would be better. Thinking about it more, the soil is looser on top after the winter and I can see the low spots better so I think I might try the landplane first without working it up first. Here's what I have. First link were taken in the fall just before the snow came. Click on the pictures and they will go bigger. https://www.facebook.com/TricountyFTrack/photos/a.274247149869088/307153116578491/?type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/pg/TricountyFTrack/photos/?tab=album&album_id=274243599869443
It depends on how much dirt you want to move whether you want to scrape off the top, or work it up and then level it. It sounds like you're close, so I'd scrape it the way it is with the landplane. If you have a lot of scraping, eyeball it from the tractor seat. When you're REALLY close, go out with spray paint, lime, ashes, whatever marker you want, and outline the high spots and low spots, then follow that plan from the seat. It'll be easier to see after a rain before it's worked up, the smoother surface will be easy to see and mark.
In the filbert orchards, we use a 3pt (top link floating) drag float for floor maintenance prior to harvest. They are 8-10' long. Some will run gauge wheels that extend forward to about the mid point of the tractor. Prior to putting orchards in, the field is farmed fully. Some guys will hire out having the filed laser planed or pull a land plane across it. As was said before, length on the implement is the easiest factor for slicking things out flat.
Much as a full size grader machine.
HeavyEquipmentForums You can use swedes to set hubs. They are cheap and easy to make. You could use 2 stakes and pound them in to the right height if you want. May be harder. Set hubs every 10 feet or so, fill, compact, and grade it to the top of the hubs. Just make sure you pull the hubs out when done. You could use whatever you want to grade it. It's not about the tractor, it's about knowing where the dirt has to be.
https://www.rayneplane.com/ I've seen something similar to this, that was a little bigger than what gtermini posted the first picture of, but a little smaller than the one these guys build. The principle is the same, multiple blades rolling the dirt each direction, or even with a V to roll it from the high spots to the low spots. You could built your own out of a old wagon running gear and a old lattice boom crawler boom section with a little time and "want to". Then you wouldn't have to call out the grader man every spring, just hook up to your tractor and make some passes. I think you would do it after every race weekend if you had one.
The only thing I would add to any of these would be a roller behind them. That would greatly improve your outcome.
I think it wetting down so it isn't just loose silt would help too.
I would be skittish of working it wet, tends to ball up on graders hangs on mold board other issues. Dry seems to roll easier to get level set.
I should clarify that watering after scraping and levelling would let it settle so you could see if it's still low. Filling the low spots with dry loose dirt may not be level after it settles.
Depends on the material. Some stuff cuts better damp. There's a fine line between too wet and just right. An early morning dew kinda wet. I like to take a mouthful before I start so I can see how it will roll off the blade
I know for grooming some dampness is good. Just enough moisture it isn't a dust bowl.
I would till the silt in or scrape it off if it's a lot. Grading it will likely leave the same hole after wear(lighter and more dusty crap than normal). I would wager it's different than the rest of the track, so tilling it in with the subsurface would make a better surface in the long run.
Just the top surface gets real dry and scraping it could turn it into fine powder. That's why I think some moisture would be good and maybe packing it some would blend it all back together.
I misjudged and that is correct to water down after spreading to get a better final level.
If I were closer I could grade it for you. We achieved a 1/2" tolerance over 50,000 SF on this job with only two operators in two days. The only limitation was we couldn't get rock fast enough.. 1500 Tons of DGB total. Point being if you have someone near you with a similar setup it may be money well spent to hire them to grade your track. The time savings alone compared to blue topping is no comparison.
The guy helping me knows a guy with a skid steer and laser but I'm not sure what type of laser or attachment. My new neighbor was saying some lasers are only within 3-4 inches. Most of the track is probably close to 1/2" tolerance. There's just one larger area and couple small ones that hold too much water.
Until CM shows up you could let the MX riders play around . They don't care what grade or condition the tracks in .
Very nice setup CM1995! A dual laser blade is very hard to beat for getting things perfectly flat. My understanding though is that this is a track? Laser may not work well for this site unless the track is all on one plane. What works best in our area for tracks, driveways, trails, etc is to scarify everything about 6" deep then regrade then roll. Otherwise you'll get the same potholes at the same spots year after year. In my opinion you'll be happiest with a slight crown or bank it on the turns. We grade flat pads to a tolerance of +/- 1/4" all the time and there are wide shallow puddles all over them after a rain. It wouldn't take much of a slope. Maybe around 1/4" to 1/2" in ten feet to take care of your puddles. Good luck! I'm sure you'll get the advice you need here!
I was thinking of trying the land plane without working anything up after the winter but being it will be easy to work up the top 3-4" maybe working it up and just pulling harrows or a wide beam around would level it off. Also have a landscape (York rake) rake with gauge wheels that may do it. I'm going to try to put a slight slope on it. The track is higher than the surrounding area and most rain does run off fairly quickly. The water seems to make it's own path to drain.
Sounds like a workable plan to me. Use the equipment you have access to. This industry achieved excellent grading for many years before the goodies arrived. It can still be done the old fashioned way.
if you work it up nice and loose, you're not going to see the small differences, nor will the laser or the long land plane. I can't believe the soil isn't loose enough to scrape this time of year? Scrape it first, then if you feel it won't compact evenly, till it up and grade again, roll, etc. until you're satisfied.
Went out today and played with landplane. I was surprised, the higher areas were packed and only had minimal loose material on top. The lower areas that held water were still a little moist and chewed up easier. I did laps around the track to do the initial levelling and smooth off small bumps and hoof prints from wildlife. Then I spent a bunch of time on the main low area going in figure 8's and diagonally across it which definitely helped. Then I went around the track diagonally zig zagging from side to side. I didn't have a laser level to see where the highest parts were but I think just spending more time and going in all directions levels a little more each time. Now that it's really close, I'm wondering if working it up and using the landscape rake with gauge wheels could get it even more level. I could also just pull some harrows around, a drag bar or a bunch of old tires with a long chain. I've heard semi tires work good for levelling but I don't have any that big. I have some 16" truck tires though. It's a big area. My landplane is 7' wide and I was working on it for over 3 hours. I think it's going to rain this week so I'll see what it's like when I go back out.
I'd think that means you have to work up the whole thing, and then go at it. I don't see a short "wheel base" getting it as flat as you seem to want. Either need a long "wheelbase", or laser, or mark it and cut by sight.
That's why I think a drag or tires pulled with a long chain might work good if everything was worked up so it was all the same constancy. Most people say to get a surface level you have to always have material on the blade so there's always something to fill in the low spots. One of the guys that tried the track last year said it was the smoothest track he's ever road and he's raced all over the place including in the US. I think a short wheelbase could work if it was real close to begin with. My neighbor was away but has a real fancy laser level so I'm going to see if he could shoot the track. It's such a big area your eyes play tricks on you trying to see the high spots and low spots.
Too bad you couldn't find an old Puckett grader. They sold ours to the local four-wheeler club for $8000.00. New engine, one new hydraulic pump, it had 4 good tires on it.
I think I have what would make a good drag after I get it a little more level. The metal siding for my pole shed came in a heavy crate about 16' long and 3' wide. I think with a long chain or rope could smooth it pretty good if I worked it up. My neighbor has a smaller ride on vibratory roller with a smooth drum that could help too. It's about 5' wide I think.
If you turn it up, a touch of water and some truck tires will pack it down, then just drag it again before it dries and it should set up good.
My neighbor came over and shot it with a laser level. One straight is with 1/2 an inch but parts of the corners are higher and going into one corner on the other side is about 8 inches low. You'd never know by looking at it. He suggested dumping material in the low spots and then just dragging it around. I could work up the high spots but I'm wondering if just working everything up and dragging it around would smooth everything out. It really sucks that my job is being eliminated because I'd just like to pay off the guy that is supposed to be helping me. He was supposed to be coming out at 11:30 and bringing some fence posts. He texts me at 11:02 his trailer has a flat tire and he'll try to get it fixed. Texted him back about 11:45 don't worry about the posts, just come out and we can work on the track. Text's me back at 1:10 that he was just going to drop the posts off and wouldn't be able to help do anything because he hurt his back on Thursday. I don't think he had any plans to come out or had a flat tire. We have a race scheduled for June 8 and have a lot to do to be ready but I'm ready to say %$#@& it with the whole thing!!! The biggest stipulation I had for building the track in the first place was that it wasn't just going to create a ton more work for me. I don't know if the guy is playing some kind of game or what's going on but I'm really, really sick of it. My reputation is on the line if the track isn't ready. I think I'm going to tell him if he wants the track worked on he can pay me!
It sounds like the whole thing would be low if you did that. You will have to bring material in, or find material eventually. That's just the nature of the beast. Every spec of dust kicked up is dirt you have to bring in for maintainence. If it is a budget fix, you could level it that way. Till the entire thing right after or during a rain, then grade check and hub the entire thing and grade it out flat. This requires re compacting and re grade checking. The more precise and controlled grading, the less likely it will be bumpy once compacted. If you want it to last a while, you should figure a drainage system. Make the whole track run water off the surface, and a way to get water out of the middle. The ideal would be a crap ton of surplus material in the middle graded to a crown , the turns sloped in, and the straights flat, maybe graded to a slow outward slope during rain.
Field cultivate will take out small dips and high spots very well. It wont carry much dirt but will level. One time a contractor I worked for had a area ready for paving. They decided not to pave and I seeded it down. First pass I could hardly stay in the seat, second pass it was smooth.
I think I'm going to add some material to the lowest spots and then work it up to level it. I have a cultivator I could put on the tractor or I have a heavy H beam with 15 backhoe teeth on it that works like a really heavy harrow I could drag around with some harrows or tires behind it. It's odd the 2 spots dug out deeper when trying to level it before. I wonder if the ground was maybe a little softer in the low spots.
It's likely softer. It's definitely softer now with water soaked into it. The low spots wouldn't happen to be toward the ends of the straights would they?
One low spot is coming out of a corner and the start of a straight and the worst one starts about 5/8 down the straight till about 3/8 into the corner. In the middle of the straight is close to the level of the good straight (1/2"). The corners are a little higher before and after the low spots. The track hasn't been ridden much so it's not from braking. The lowest spot always seemed like it wasn't as compacted but I figured after using the landplane and then the landscape rake with gauge wheels it should level it better. It worked good on the one straight and the infield of the track that is black dirt but was dragging too much in the low spots. Kind of weird but very frustrating. Part of the track is better and part got worse.