Have a backhoe I started two days ago and it was idling when I went to raise the loader bucket, the engine bogged and stalled and been unable to start since. Blowing dark smoke as I turn the motor over and can hear it firing but not enough to start it. Checked the rack and nothing stuck and has fuel.
Make sure the emergency air kill didn't get tripped somehow.
Is that a gate on the Air box somewhere?
Yes most Detroits have a big flapper on the inlet side of the blower that works as an emergency shutdown. Once in a while someone will accidentally trip it or something will cause it to trip in error. Should be a small lever and a little latch mechanism to reset it. Dark smoke and trying to but not smoking sure sound like it is getting fuel but not enough air. Not the clearest picture but you might be able to make it out in the circle in the picture below
OK, thank you. I will check tomorrow.
Well, tried to start with emergency shutdown in either position with no luck. The engine still seems to sputter and tries to start with ether. There is whiteish smoke coming from the stack. I didn't have wrenches to open the pressure side of the fuel pump to see if there was fuel flow. Any other ideas?
When were your fuel fillers last serviced, past that you are on the right path. Check fuel flow from pump. If no flow, check the splines drive shaft off the blower. For some reason, they like to twist.white smoke says your getting fuel, black says you're starving for air. She should've fired on ether if it was gonna. Any chance the air filter is in backwards? Can you remove the blower inlet and see if the lobes are turning while cranking?
It would be extremely rare for the fuel pump to fail. As others have said, it is more likely a drive or the coupling if the pump is not working. These are very simple gear pumps that rarely fail. Also, be sure you are not sucking air on the suction side of the pump. Check lines, fuel strainer gasket, pick up tube. Any of those can cause misery.
Not sure on your engine where the fuel pump is mounted, with a Detroit there are way too many variations without being right there or seeing a picture of the engine showing the pump. If you could take a couple pictures of your engine it would help with suggestions. Having said that if you unhook the line from the output side of the fuel pump and crank the engine over a little you should see a flow of fuel while cranking. The fuel pressure while running is only around 30 psi so don't expect it to shoot half way across the room at cranking speed, just definite flow should be good enough. If there is fuel flow there you could also unhook the fuel line from secondary filter to the head on engine and check for flow there too. If you have fuel to both those points the next thing I might suggest is remove the inlet housing to the blower, the one the shut down flapper valve is in and try turning the rotors in the blower by hand. They should NOT turn, well maybe a very slight amount but you should not be able to turn them all the way around. If they do turn that would mean the drive has failed, could be a coupling problem, stripped splines or something else. Again a picture of the engine might give a hint on what the problem might be. Also while the flapper housing is off make sure it is working and will latch in the open position. That is about the best I can do from here, there are always things that someone very familiar with the engine could figure out in a few seconds that might take as long as a half hour to type up detailed direction to explain. I would avoid using ether to try to start this engine as a small engine like this is very easy to overload with the ether and cause serious damage. Good luck!
The filters, both primary & secondary were replaced a month ago as well as the air filter. The gear pump was rebuilt at the same time. will confirm fuel flow tomorrow.
One other thing to check since you mentioned it bogged down while operating one of the hydraulic controls is make sure one of the spools isn't still engaged somehow... bad linkage... this could make i hard to get enough rpms to fire over Oh, one other thing if you do open the blower housing to check it some detroits have a screen in there that can get clogged over time, make sure it is clear.
Say more about the "Spools"? Not familiar. reading the manual on the Detriot 3-53 there seems to be more on the Air Valve in setting it to the run position. It appear to be just a spring loaded gate. Does anyone provide step by step on reseting the tripped air shut off flapper?
The spool valves would be the controls to the loader or backhoe....if stuck, you might be trying to pump hydraulics under pressure while trying to turn over the engine. The air flap... In the photo posted above, the circled part is the "catch/handle" that releases the flap to the "closed" position. You should be able to simply rotate the handle until it locks back open against the catch (the cable operated release). DB
I had an 8V92 like that once. The injector levers on the rack were spring loaded and one injector fuel control was stuck wide open. Replaced that injector, problem solved. I would have expected that cylinder to run at full fuel but it would not even run on ether? Was the injector messed up allowing cylinder pressure to purge fuel from the system?
This is a good example of what I was talking a bout in my last post, something that one with a little experience with Detroits could spot in a second or two can take much time to explain by typed words. Hopefully the picture I am attaching will help some. And yes this is from a V-71 manual but they are almost the exact same design. In the picture you can see the item labeled "Shut-down Latch Assembly" just behind this in the picture not easy to see is the cam like part the latch assembly sets on. It is mounted on a shaft that goes through the intake housing and has a step in it that the spring loader latch should drop into and hold it in place while engine is running. At one end of the shaft running through the inlet housing there should be a small lever maybe 1 1/2 inches long to allow you to turn the shaft to let the latch assembly lock in to the step in the cam on the shaft. Inside the intake housing mounted on the shaft the little lever and cam latch are mounted on is just a plate of steel that when the "Shut -down Latch Assembly" is pulled out of the step in the cam this lets the shaft rotate and the plate covers the intake to the blower and stops air from getting into the engine thus stopping the engine from running. Note this is intended as an "Emergency Stop" device and should not be used for normal shut downs as it can cause damage to the seals in the blower. The idea is that in an emergency damaging the blower seals is less a concern than having the engine literally explode and possibly injure or kill the operator! Did some digging on Google and actually found a page out of a inline 53 manual that shows it a little better: Note in this picture the lever to reset the shut-down is mounted right in the cam itself.
Is there a way to test the injector in the field?
Thank you for the great description. I'll work on the latch. On my initial inspection I couldn't figure out what keep the latch up will look again.
Some times the little lever (cam pin handle in the second picture) can be broke off. If that is the case you should be able to rotate the shaft and cam with a pair of pliers to get the latch to move into position on the notch in the cam.
Also it can be on the right side of the blower housing depending on engine configuration.
When you take the cover of the blower keep all fingers clear and try starting it. That will eliminate any air intake problems upstream thru the filters. You can also see if the blower is turning. If it still has the old style fiber drive gears they sometime strip amd slip. Very easy test to try. White smoke sounds like not getting air. I carried tools and stuff a 1/2 mile into the woods one winter when a 4-53 quit on me with symptions you describe. Turned out woods mice built a nest in the air intake overnight and they sucked in and plugged the intake pipe. If I had taken the cover off first and tried it, I would have saved a day and a half of tring to figure it out.
Thanks for all your post, figured out the Latching and Cam mechanism on the Emergency Shut Off in the Air box. The Cam knob was missing but managed to reset the latch and now running fine.
Good to hear it was a simple fix
See what I mean about the simple things one experienced with the engine would see in a second! Glad it was something so simple, hate to think of all the work someone might have gone through trying to fix a more or less nonexistent problem! Makes one wonder how much equipment is out there sitting and rusting away that only needs a twist or a tug on the right part to have it working again!
I just did a job for a machine that would not start, customer had replaced a relay and the starter and cut a hole in a guard so he could bar the engine over by hand to make sure it was not locked up tight. Battery was dead. 15 minutes on site.
Funny thing about those electrical devices needing electricity to work?
I went with a former boss to a auction and he was interested in a T-500C Galion grader with a 4-71 in it. It was supposed to run, but the auctioneer announced it had a problem and wouldn't start up to go through the sale line. I told him to hit on the bid because the E stop was likely tripped, on these machines you turned the key past off to kill the fuel. He bought it for $5500.00, I reset the E stop and on the trailer it went.
At least your hind sight is still 20/20 Old Iron!!!
Yes it is' and a tough lesson is long remembered.