We have a thread for everything else, we need destruction. What's left of a Rockwell RD22145 center section to start off . . . View attachment KIMG0261.JPG View attachment KIMG0263.JPG
So the bull gear decide it had had enough? Pics are SUPER big.
The pinion gear lost about three teeth, chewed up the ring gear pretty good too. I can't say I really know how to mess with the pics much, I just point the phone at it and click.
I just found your other thread on this. Usually see this in winter and early spring. Sorry that happened. Looks expensive.
Very kool..I hope it isn’t yours..
Alot of wheel slip then grab is usually enough. Sad to see such carnage but happens.
What's left of a Series 60 14L two days after rebuild. Work was done in owners Idaho shop.
Poor factory Hendrickson design.
Rotors cooked to a turn by a new CDL driver, 6 months experience, rotors had 62,000 miles on them.
Driving too fast for conditions, 220,000 miles on it, totaled. Only one of many.
What happens when truck drivers using a cell phone, not looking ahead in a construction zone.
4 month old RTLO18913A-lost it's life by the hands and feet of a rookie.
Looks like they forgot to tell the guy about the engine brake . . .
Two 10 speeds toasted in three months by a new hire, belonged to a customer.
Driver school--I rest my case about new CDL drivers, just because one is packing a CDL does not constitute a driver.
Just had fuel lines replaced that morning.
Two drivers at The Yard, front bumpers crumpled since I left last time, less than year. Come to find out Two Each under a year. Tires holed in less than three days on trucks. One Western Star tractor Air Disc brake, 6th steer axle seals(both) in under a year, Five on drives. 120,000yr truck.
How exactly does a driver wipe out axle seals?
A problem built into air disc-Heat. The cavity where the seal is small plus the rotor is tucked inside the drop center of wheel. Which allows for very little cooling through the rotor veins. Depending on brake usage the seals cook, especially the National type OEM. Air disc works in some applications, out here in many cases trucks are spec'd with disc on the steer drum on tag and drive. My experience with air disc-it's definitely not cost effective in a fleet-OO maybe.
Rear idler on a D6N, they finally quit when one side of the idler shaft was completely worn off and the idler kicked sideways. Something tells me they heard it making noise before it got to this point. Frame had to be welded up and new dowel holes drilled.
Angle cylinder pin broke on D6N and they shoved the rod through the back side of the blade. Don’t know where they get these guys.
Look at all the money these guys generate in repairs, it's built into the work force, they keep the mechanic/welder trade busy. Without them everyone on here would be busy carving out a wooden bill so they could peck **** with the chickens.
785D Haul Truck - 125 hours from new. Final drive let go and locked up. The truck was loaded and stuck right in the middle of a haul road at the time....... IIRC correctly it was a bolt from one of the 2nd reduction planetary shaft retainer plates that fell out and went through the gear train. CORRECTION: It was a 2nd reduction bearing failure by the looks of it. Basically the boys went in the housing with a shovel and dug out the debris.
Photos Part Deux
What's a rough estimate for repair of that on a out of warranty machine?
I wish I still had pictures of the D11R I had to cut the planetary carrier out of it to get the axle shaft out to pull the final. That was the worst exploded final I ever came across.
So what is the benefit of disc? Isn't heat dissipation the point of disc?
Truckshop- a reman final and brake group for that 785D is pushing 90k, no telling what they’d charge in add bills or core value deductions.
NHTSB--stopping distance-which is really negligible in the real world, not on a test track. Trucks are not required to have air disc, but many jumped on the band wagon with sales pitch. Problem is the thinner the rotor gets the faster it heats. Drums have x amount more friction surface and a open cavity for air, Disc doesn't do well in stop and go traffic. * The real benefit of air disc is the manufacture keeps your wallet vacuumed, a complete brake replacement with disc on a three axle tractor can hit $8,000. Drum $2,000.
Sounds about right. The Fed will be mandating that soon enough . . .
I was seeing major dollar signs. Thanks for answering.
Well people are finding out and in some cases, dropping the disc and going with drum. I put a stop to it a two years ago. I told him not to buy them in the beginning.
I’ve seen a few haul truck finals that had to be gas axed apart to get the guts out. Last I heard Reman 793 finals were going for $200k a copy not including the Core Charge Credit, trash one and it would probably be upwards of 250k.
Holy Moly.
Last fleet I worked with were 785D, small by mining standards, only 150 ton payload. A planned component replacement at 18k hours for everything in the power train from the radiator through to the final drives, steering overhaul, suspension, & dump body cylinders came to just short of $1m a copy in parts. We had 35 trucks and basically at any given time one of them was going through that process. We could turn one round in 30 days, so 12 trucks a year. With each truck working on average 6k hours each year the math worked out perfectly.
Two curious questions; What were those 785d's new, and how many times would you overhaul them like that before it wasn't worth it?
About $2m a copy. Planned life for them on that job was set at approximately 90,000 hours, so 4 overhauls from new then scrap. EDIT: The life expectancy of any mining machine is dependent on the life of the chassi/frame because everything else is a bolt-on, even stuff such as cabs.
I got bored doing certified power trains at the cat shop I worked at after 2 or 3 months id probably be looking for more exciting work
Maybe 20 years ago, I saw a D10 that was absolute scrap after 22,000hrs of working on iron ore. Never seen a tractor with so many weld-on patches on components such as track frame, and even the main frame.
Side note on rebuilds, it may no longer be worth it on the site it’s on but we’ve moved plenty of 793 trucks across the US to a different surface strip job where they were put back in service and reframed with over 100k hours on the frames. When I left that strip job, they were exchanging engines/torques at 21k-22k hours in a 793C. As the budget gets tighter due to coal demand going down, those hours get pushed more and more. We would almost always swing a 3508 in a D11 at 12,500 hrs no matter what but I’ve heard they are pushing them to 15k or more these days and just rolling the dice on the core. And Nige is 100% correct, on a job that size there’s always a 793 and a D11 getting an engine changed. Seems like we did very few of them in the shop too, most were done outside in the parking ditch.
This thread really has potential. Between just the level of destruction accomplished by the unknowing to the failure analysis and to the final outcome. This could be really fun , (at someone else's expense)
Every wreck/mechanical failure tells a story. It didn't take long for the issues built into air disc to surface plus the up coming expense to go with it. The tough part was convincing the office.
If it was possible I would have a video of what happens when {Auto Chains} are deployed at 60 mph.
Dead right. Never a spare bay in the shop when you really need one. The mechanics (mixed dealer & mine crew) all rotated through the PCR bay. They worked 14-on/7-off and would probably do 2 turns each of day shift and night shift in that bay then get moved on to different duites. IMO the type of mechanic you need on a PCR is a steady plodder, not a rocket scientist. Repeatability is the name of the game. This was a gold property. Different financials. TBH with high rolling resistance because of the terrain the fuel burn was outside the top end of the "high" range in the PHB O&O Costs section. I've never seen that before in my life. It's the only possible option if you are stuck in the middle of the jungle and all the equipment has to be torn down to move on or off the job site. About the biggest thing we could move in one piece was a 962.
That's not a 5-minute fix. My Xmas present on returning from the holidays a few years ago.
That's talent right there, whoo boy!
Yup. And only a couple of months before this happened the Ops Superintendent was tackled regarding truck overloading and excessive speed for the haul road conditions. His response "I get paid on tons moved. Chassis won't start cracking until long after I leave." How wrong he was.....
If the bedwalls are 8 feet high, that just means you can weld 3-4 feet of sideboard extensions on top, right. Common practice.
Frames and articulation hitches. Somehow the operations manager always think that downtime and hardparts are cheaper than having a dozer and grader maintain the haul roads. Had a guy years back complaining he should get warranty for grinding through the bottom of #2 power divider housing. Took pics of the haul roads and promptly denied.
Problem on that site was that for the first couple of years there was no rock with which to build roads. Trucks were creating ruts so deep that the belly guards under the engine were banana-shaped right up to the oil pan rather than being straight. 100" of rain a year didn't help much either. TBH I'd have seriously considered suggesting motor scrapers for that 1st phase but it was too late by the time I got there, the trucks were already bought.
Shredded tires?
Carnage when in motion has even more spectacular results. Sent by a mate in Oz. I think it's a 793.
You said it with the shift they where on that would have been great. It may have kept me at the dealer.
No chain heads left, explodes.
Gonna need a damn good welder to get those gears back in place if you can find all the bits. Probably have to replace the one center left unless the other half of it turns up. Joe H
One I don't have photo's for happened in the mid 80's. * Boss tows in this C700 Ford box truck a guy bought in Seattle to move to the midwest. He was on I-90 cruising along until he started to pull the grade headed east. BOOM. It had a Allison auto and down shifted to first from 50mph. Exploded the front of engine, damper and fan sawed anything and everything to small bits. Bent the crank snout about 30*, broke the block at front main cap. The fan chopped holes through the cab right by the owners legs. Boss sold him a complete 391 and radiator with all the trimmings from another C700 he had setting in the yard. So I swapped everything over got it running took it for a test drive and to check transmission-wouldn't shift. So pulled the cover to the governor, it had flown to pieces, replaced it all was fine. So think about that Allison when your headed towards a hill.
There’s a really good reason I fix heavy equipment instead of owning…I don’t get to enjoy the the heart attack from opening the bill.
Another I have no photo of. A character I went to high school with-his dad bought him a 71 Vette Roadster{rich farmer}. Anyway he decided he was going to do some mechanic work at the back end of car. He had bought some ramps-he gave it a little too much gas. Tires shot the ramps forward and the body slammed down on the ramps in front of rear tires, mangled the rockers and cracked the body a good one.
I was working at the auto shop years back, there was an old guy with a big old Buick or something. I don't remember exactly, but I think he couldn't hardly get out of the car, so the boss said to bring him around and let him pull up on the ramps. He got halfway up, started to roll back a little, and just pinned it. He shot the ramps out and piled into the trash cans and oil tanks that were 20 feet in front of him. Made me think twice about standing in front of anybody in a car again ...
No photos, it was a long time ago - but I had a guy relate a story to me where he was barrelling along a country highway in his AP6 Chrysler Valiant V8 with T-bar console automatic - and with his 3 yr old son sitting alongside him, with the young fellas legs draped each side of the console. He's sitting on 110kmh (70mph) and a kangaroo jumps out right in front of him! He hits the brakes hard to avoid hitting the 'roo - and the young fella slides straight forward into the T-bar shifter lever - and punches it straight into Park at 100kmh!! This guy told me he's never seen a transmission explosion like it! Pieces of the transmission went everywhere, and there was no chance of rebuilding it - he had to buy a complete replacement transmission!
A few years ago I was talking to a bloke about electronic controled engines and transmissions. He used to work for a MAN dealership near London, England. He told me of a new MAN truck that was travelling on the motorway to London from Dover. At 60 mph it changed from top gear to 1st resulting in a blown trans and over reved engine. The dealership blamed the driver as per usual with the argument going as to who was going to pay. A week later later another truck from the same stable did the same thing at the same place on the same road. An investigation was launched as to why and found that electromagnetic interference from an airforce base had caused the transmissions to shift gears. MAN had to replace the engines and transmissions. Don't always blame the driver.
That's freak.
Sometime about 2005, I was working a crushing job, working with the boss's son in law. We were running a Pegson portable jaw crusher, crushing concrete. It was about 10 minutes to 5, the other guy put the last bucket in, and was sitting in the excavator watching it work through the feeder; I was standing up on the screener watching, waiting to start shutting things down for the day. The crusher had a 350 horse Cat, just humming along, when it just choked right out. Arrrghh . . . a big shot of black smoke, and silence. A cast iron block from a good sized pillow block bearing had gone through, and stopped the jaw. We worked at clearing it for 2 hours, fortunately there wasn't much left in the jaw. We used a torch to try to nibble away at the block. The jaw was wound so tight it rung like a bell when you hit it. We were taking turns getting down into the jaw to work the torch, the other guy was down inside and I was sitting up on top of the jaw watching. He nibbled through what was apparently the last bit of iron holding the jaw, and the jaw started to move. You never saw a guy move so fast; he grabbed my arm and I hauled and he heaved and he came out intact. The jaw made about a turn and a half with the stored energy that was bound up in there. All the safety police can now start . . . you are probably all correct. I didn't know much better at the time, and neither did the other guy. The machine had been shut down for two hours at that point, but we didn't grasp the stored energy potential of that flywheel. Two weeks later the Jaw went down with failed bearings on the main shaft. Reportedly the main shaft was tweaked. I heard that bill went into the tens of thousands. We never should have been crushing the pile we were crushing, but that is what the boss wanted crushed . . .
Had a similar experience myself with a hopper bottom trailer dumping it's cargo all over a state highway in a curve. Two died slipping on the grain spilled. Culprit was traced to a deficient RF filter in the receiver assembly/actuator that opened the hopper doors of the semi trailer remotely. We tested, tested, and tested with varying frequency, PRT, PRF, stretch and compression algorithmic computations for weeks till we hit on the right set of parameters to replicate the scenario of actuating the electronic circuit repeatedly when it shouldn't have. Once we were able to prove what happened, and why it happened, the manufacturer's liability coverage stepped in for settlement. The product was redesigned before the conclusion of legalities and is in plentiful use out there with additional safety precautions built in to preclude such happening again.
This is one reason why the wires for any Datalink inside a wiring harness, CAN or otherwise, are always run in twisted pairs (at least 1 twist per inch of wire length if you please) to prevent extraneous external signals interfering with data transmission. i read an article the other week regarding the potential for 5G mobile communications in the USA to interfere with commercial aircraft avionics. https://www.icao.int/safety/FSMP/MeetingDocs/FSMP%20WG11/IP/FSMP-WG11-IP08_ICAO%20Flight%20Operations%20Panel%20and%20IATA%20%20IFALPA%205G%20problem%20statement.pdf
I've always liked this one. For one beacuse the truck was brand-new with only 30 hours on it, and for two because it was the Dark Side not us.....!!
I was intertwined in that 5G communications subject for about a year before I retired. From the grounds and parameters I worked within there was not going to be an affect at all, but in other aspects there was likelihood of limited impact. I never worked much in the communication aspect of RF transmission or processing by choice outside of necessity.
The potential conflict seems to be related to the operation of radio altimeters from what I can see. Radio Altimeter Interference
Can't leave out Hank R's thread. Major shovel Fail. On Monday at Highland Valley mine near Logan Lake BC. A friend works there and said a contractor was brought in to jack up shovel so undercarriage removed for a major rebuild. when shovel fell off of Jacks. Lucky no one was under shovel when it fell. One of our shovels came crashing down off... HeavyEquipmentForums
One trailer engineer is probably looking for a new job, in line with his true skills - flipping burgers.
Now this takes real operator skill, along with a low level of maintenance, to tear open a bucket to this level. RH340, Poitrel Coal Mine, Queensland, Australia.
Nige, that 30 hour machine above, how and what? Joe H
GM's 6.2 has it's issues with lifters plus low oil pressure, crankshaft damage is common. My old boss lost the 6.2 in his 2022 jimmy at 18,000 miles, suddenly started knocking, engines lights then dead.
Komatsu 930E, hence the reference to "The Dark Side". Rear axle A-frame nose let go. At that point the front end of the truck went in one direction, the rear axle went in another.
And here I thought you were trying not to mention Lucas.
That single pivot is all that holds it? Joe H
That was all that was needed till it broke.
Not funny in the sense it probably hurt that little feller-high pitch to his voice the rest of his life?
Yep. The nose fabrication contains a big spherical bearing. A similar size Cat truck would be pretty much identical in size. Acksherley something like this.......... To give you an idea of scale the Pin #10 is probably 6-8" in diameter and weighs 160 pounds. Each Cap #14 weighs 130 pounds.
A 320C with a battery compartment fire. I’m trying to fix it. We’ll see how it goes. Nige said it was extra crispy. $21k in parts, so far, and six months to arrive. In CONUS, it might make sense to make it a parts machine. But, used machines are still rare and selling for a premium.
You sure that is the trailer's fault? That's only four axles, that crusher must be 200,000lbs or more . . . maybe?
First thing on the parts list for the 320C electrical fire - a Parts Manual. You're gonna need it...........
4 rows of 4 plus 2 rows of 4 on the dolly, should have been OK. Probably on private mine site road so weight limits don't apply.
Any idea what happened? Bolts holding the bearing retainer came loose, caps loosened up? 30 hours seems something was bad from the git go until it gave it up. Joe H
"Operator abuse". Standard reply from the dealer to any warranty complaint.
As far as I recall it was the A-frame eye that broke, a material failure.
And here is the photo to prove it. The blocks, pin, & bearing were still attached to the truck chassis.
We always chuckled when The Dark Side had problems. Here is an 830E that lost a rear leg.
And for the loader guys a LeTourneau L1850 that devleoped a hinge where it shouldn't have one.
This brand has in some cases the same issue, a friend that runs a machine shop has repaired two.
It appears LeTourneau hoses are top shelf.....
Or they are designed with "room for expansion".
For sure. Holy cow. The customer’s PSSR made the parts list and I’m impressed with how accurately he was. Of course, he over-estimated because it’s in his personal best interest to. My opinion might change later Sometimes I get lucky. I actually found a parts book for this thing in my library. Don’t even remember having one.
Saw this happen on one of our job sites the other day, rotator was there for 2.5-3 hrs getting it turned back upright. Quite a bit of damage to the left side of the cab, no injuries. Had been dumping in the same spot for weeks and all the sudden this guy decides to dump sideways.
We owned a 9250 years ago (previous series, slightly smaller than the 9380 pictured). We never had articulating hinge problems. We did have a lot of brake related issues because Steiger under sized their brakes compared to comparable size Deere. Pulling a 6000 gallon liquid spreader was dicey with the Case 9250, but our 8650 Deere never had issues even though the Deere was older. It just had more weight and better brakes. My one comment about any hinge related failures on ag equipment is farmers, or farm laborers, rarely grease to a schedule. Also, most farmers think PM is a foreign language that they don't need to learn. Those articulating hinges don't ever get serviced properly until they've failed. We have 2 articulating tractors that both have tight center hinges because they were replaced when we bought the tractors as part of the sales agreement. Our 9230 had horrible slop when we inspected it pre-purchase. It was split and line bored before we took delivery. It also got a new front axle thanks to an exploded pinion bearing. Deere sent one of their guys up to the selling farm to drive tractor to dealership for the line bore work. He barely left their farm when the front axle locked up and sent him off the road. We hadn't officially signed papers yet so it was not our tractor. Dealer made the selling farm split the bill for damages as they were found negligent/fraudulent for not disclosing that they knew something was wrong with the front end. We were told it was almost $30,000 worth of repairs. Glad it happened before we took delivery.
The problem encountered around here is the steep hillsides, no real flat ground around here. I should have noted, I have been told the later models are heavier design in that area.
It is sad to think there was something worse than a 8650.
Yes! - it was the 8430! I made a good killing out of transport charges, hauling many a (near-new) 8430 between farm and dealer and back again for major repairs! JD never made too many loyal customers out of those piles of unreliable crap!
We had the 8650, that we later traded for the Case 9250 (powershift trans). Acquired an 8440 to supplement tillage work as the 9250 couldn't stay ahead of the 16 row planter we had upgraded to. Picked up an 8770 with a new engine for cheap at an auction. Got rid of the gutless 8440. Couple years later we picked up the 9230 Deere and got rid of the Case. Couple years after that we got a really good deal on a 9420 Scraper Special and got rid of the 8770. The newer powershift Deeres really are a world nicer to operate, and the cabs are much quieter. Plus, both of our current articulated tractors are Greenstar ready so we can have guidance and mapping, when needed.
The biggest improvement deere has made on the articulated wheel machines is front axle suspension. Its still doesn't ride as nice as a mechanical front, but its way better than without.
Those figures are to heavy for my head
Didn’t need carnage to rack up $$$$. The most recent fleet of haul trucks I worked with were North of $800k in parts alone for a full nose-to-tail component replacement.
Oh that's nice when there's a boxing match, if you hear a ticking noise put it to the wood.
Oh that's good-nice photos, keep'm coming.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Nige will like this destruction. Caterpillar engine failure Caterpillar engine failure bangshift.com *
"crankshaft as the fusible link" I like that. Joe H
Spectacular.
That machine looks to have been needing new undercarriage for a while......
Would you like to hear the story behind that, and many other 793 engines grenaded in a similar fashion although maybe not quite so spectacularly.?
Well, yeah I'm betting there was an automatic downshift to 1st due to a computer glitch while traveling at top speed while loaded...
Yes, please . . .
You're kind of half-way right. The true cause in most/all of the cases was a lack of maintenance to the electrical system by the customer. Generally when a component is replaced on an "hours worked" basis custom & practice says to replace all the wiring harnesses that go with it. Let's face it you would not think of installing a 20k-hour wiring harness back on to a replacement rebuilt or new engine for example. It was all down to the fact that the harness feeding the transmission was part of the rear chassis wiring. The harness stretched all the way from the RH side of the cab down and back along the chassis to the tail/brake/reversing lights, backup alarm, etc. A branch of it went sideways along the cross-tube casting then dropped down to the A-frame supporting the transmission/rear axle assembly. So generally if a transmission was replaced the machine wiring was simply disconnected, rolled back out of the way, and reconnected to the replacement tranny. At the point where the harness dropped from the chassis to the A-frame there was always a lot of relative movement. A transmission replacement meant that the zip ties/clamps etc, never went back the same way they came off, or as was shown in the Parts Manual. So harnesses started to fail in that area. A lot of customers simply ran bypass wires or did spliced joints, etc. If a wire or wires in a harness failed, no harm no foul. Simply repair/replace/bodge and get it working again. If a half-way clued-up tech was involved a new harness would be ordered. The real problem occurred when a harness DIDN'T completely fail. A wire that was literally hanging on by a thread was the main issue, especially on the transmission output speed sensor wiring. If the speed sensor signal was lost at any point the fall-back position on the transmission control programming (a non-programmable chip in those days) was to "hold in gear" until a genuine signal could be re-established. Now if for some reason the signal came back indicating a value close to or at zero ground speed that the control assessed as genuine then it would actually call for a downshift from 5th or 6th speed to 1st. This is when the carnage took place. Some of the comments from E&E (Electrical & Electronics) at the time were telling........ "The [failure] report comments are to the effect that the harness is OK. The downloaded data from this truck sent to Jeff N clearly shows that it has lost TOS speed sensor signal a number of times. THE HARNESS IS BAD. We recommend that it is replaced before the truck goes back into operation." "On Monday this week the control and harness from MEL arrived back here and E&E examined it. They were somewhat shocked with the condition and age of the harness. However it was positively portrayed as an example of what the electronics on a vehicle had to contend with over time." The solutions were: - 1. Have an input into the control from the engine speed sensor as well as the transmission output speed sensor and compare the two so that if they were not correct relative to one another bearing in mind what transmission gear was selected the control would hold in gear and not allow a shift. 2. Re-design the wiring harness to put a connector into it at a point close to where it jumped from the chassis to the A-frame and have a short harness to the transmission as a separate Part Number. These days a lot of rebuild centres actually supply the short harness already installed on a rebuilt transmission. In our dealership alone we had a total of 23 documented cases of catastrophic engine failures (that we know of, there may have been more) caused by unwanted downshifts. Almost 25 years ago and I remember it like it was yesterday.
Sort of along the same lines as this one above except the failure was mechanical. Now I suppose the same thing {could happen} with a manual transmission-if the driver was able to get leg and foot into position and shove/grind into a lower gear.
How about this 3408 in a Cat 769C truck a few thousand hours after dealer did major overhaul: Forget the hours but they covered it! Seem to recall they put it to problem of defective rod bearings? Sad thing is driver said he heard some odd noise and decided best thing was to drive it probably half a mile back to the shop. He almost made it too! But one wrist pin was about 100 feet behind truck when he did stop!
I recall a shed load of rod bearings with the lead-tin overlay poorly bonded to the copper layer above the backing on the shell a number of years back. There were Service Letters all over the shop to get them out of parts stock, reman engines, cylinder packs, etc, etc, before they were sold as well as to cover failures of engines in the field. The final bill for all the failures must have been a fair bit. One of them speaks thusly - "Certain engine bearings may experience debonding of the lead-tin overlay. This condition could disrupt the oil film on the bearing surface which could lead to adhesive damage to the bearing and result in a seizure."
I wonder what rpm that engine in the 793 hit before it failed .....
Over 3000 RPM is all the electronic download said. How far over 3000 is anyone's guess.
Oh that's nice-great photo! I remember a 1693-unbolted the head and block fell away in two pieces. Or the 855 I could see through the block to right steer tire.
Where does that engine normally top out at? A 3406 is about the biggest engine in my world . . .
If they're the sort of firm that will put Baldwin filters on a mining truck, then it's not surprising they would cheap out on the wiring.
The deere dealer here hauled in a tractor similar to that two weeks ago, the complete right front wheel set is missing-broke off. Looks like it might have been rolled.
RPM at full power is 1750, that can go up to 1950 in retard mode. There used to be a document from the 3500 Engine Division stating what had to be done to an engine that had been subject to overspeeding. Depending on the max RPM registered it was anything from a valve/injector set to a complete rebuild.
Have to look at the other end of the rod for this failure. Again a 3516 with the block split from top to bottom (it even snapped the camshaft on that side) when a rod decided to say hello through the side of the block. The early versions of the 3516HD engine had 2-piece pistons with a steel crown supported by an aluminium skirt. In this incident one of the bronze bushes in the crown walked sideways and started to rub on the inside of the skirt. Eventually it rubbed so far that the skirt failed and the unsupported piston crown literally exploded. At that point the rod poked out of the side of the block. We never did find the piston pin, it probably landed on the haul road somewhere. EDIT: Some time later Cat switched to a one-piece piston. We all breathed a sigh of relief. Apparently the interference fit of the bronze bushes in the piston crown "ears" were the highest-rated fit available in the table of "limits & fits" - H7/S6 IIRC.
Don't have many details of this one but it was a very low-hours failure of one of the Wartsila engines at this power plant that generated all our power for the mine. I think it was "only" a cam follower failure but it cost Wartsila a new cylinder block.
A little oil cooling ventilation!!
That's a peekaboo photo-hard to find a good double thumper. Nice photo! *
Oh the carnage, the nasty whine, it raises up like a cat lifting it's tail just before the fun starts.
That's going to take more than a bit of JB Weld to fix. Not much left of it.
It wouldn't be the first one that has done this. I've seen a 773 do the same while travelling down hill loaded. As usual blame the operator until they found the selector in 4th and the retarder on. Luckily an inframe rebuild was all that was required.
"Hey boss, I think the generator broke down . . . "
Engines don't last long, even on the dyno, when they are run without oil, which apparently is what this test was.
Without destruction caused by operator error, poor design, poor assembly or age. Everyone on here and else where would be setting around like the Maytag repairman. So when you get up each morning {rub your hands together like a fly} drink that cup of coffee and smile to yourself knowing something has blown up trashed it's self. * It's the thing that makes your grandiose car and house payment, without it-your not needed.
Not me, I am not a hired wrench any more. Only when my own stuff breaks. Or family's stuff. Or friends. Or my father in law's boiler. Anyway . . .
No car payments, no house payments, no maintenance for an ex-wife, no anything payments. Where do I fit into that jigsaw.? I is confused.........
What Nige said! Built the house ourselves on a paycheck 50 years ago. Car and truck 3 and 7 years old bought new for cash. And the secret is. Still married to the same lady since 1968. Never had to split our assets. d.d.
Well, Nige, you are going to have to tell on yourself then. You expect us to believe you have no bad habits?
I'm retired owe zero, that post was for young bucks with all the toys.
Me too. Only borrowed $5,000 from uncle to get started building this house back in 1970's. Paid him back with interest a year latter. went through a divorce from first wife but kept the house and over half the land. Never paid interest on the two credit cards I have and all bills are paid before due. So until health gets real bad I'm good to go.
That is what I tell customers when they call and want me to come out right away, we are not the Maytag repairman here. You wait your turn like everyone else.
I am most definitely going to start using that line.
Bad day, LAST day at the local company Up at 3:30, just awoke, at the yard by 5 and at the clay pile by 6. Loaded and out the gate by 630 onto Mo28 at 6:40 and all hell comes loose. Mo28 at Pump Station rd is downhill EB So was getting some steam up, was just at 50mph as two cars and another company truck rounds the bottom of the hill corner, then I realize a compact Truck is in the act of Passing me, two lane DOUBLE Yellow No Passing zone and I get on the brakes ABS singing. Old Toyota pickup almost gets past as tge First car goes to the ditch, second is in panic stop as is our other truck. Toyota swerves into the truck I am driving and I feel the contact he manages to keep it straight and upright. We get to a pullout and BOTH stop. Front bumper took the hit as did their right bed side from behind the tire, from wheel well halfway to bumper peeled like a sardine can. Actually had a insurance card and a driver License, all Alabama, odd looking emblem at top of license “FN” barely speak english call office and send photos, head off to Hannibal as no safety concern damage. Do NOT see how but missed the hood the tire even the lug nut covers unscathed. His truck mangled. Main aspect NO ONE Died.
Sounds like the pilot that was retiring, last flight. On take off at O'hare a engine grenades at the point of no return. He managed to get it stopped in the weeds.
Spoke to a LEO here, FN as Presumed does mean as thought, NON-Citizen, Foreign National.
More of a slimy mess than carnage, but it's Monday . . . View attachment KIMG0367.JPG Found an old school "dry well" septic . . .
Can almost smell it from here
Because I live in wine country---those are under ground ageing vats, most have a vat in their back yard.
Was setting at intersection today on my way to the old shop to work on my engine, I saw an interesting sight rolling along at 35 through the intersection. A dump truck- you know-one of those with multiple drop axles and all the rest of the farkles. * He had a problem though and probably couldn't hear it for the talk radio show. On one of his drops there was no tire-just a aluminum wheel now half the original diameter, just grinding and pounding the asphalt. Young guy wearing a safety orange shirt with a beard that looked like something from the Civil War era and probably a tattoo or two. But he was being safe in the cab with that shirt and all. * I called the Les Schwab store and asked Kyle if they took care of so & so's dump trucks, Yes he said. Well there will be one headed your direction needing such and such and I expect a commission.
Well, at least you or the machine didn’t fall in to it….that would have been a real ****** situation….
What's up with the giant beards these days anyway . . . ?
That's the professor of ID look, everyone of them is a professor of sorts. The only item missing is a pocket watch hanging from a chain in a breast pocket-if they could afford a breast pocket or the watch. I don't know really, some sort of catch all for dribbled food for a snack later I guess.
Re TS's story about tyre/wheel disasters - I can recall many years ago, on the Goldfields highway North of Kalgoorlie (Western Australia), I came across a tyre and wheel disaster written in the asphalt - for at least 30 kilometres. First up, it was the tell-tale relatively straight, black rubber line that ran for a few kms. Then the straight black rubber line got all wavy, as the destroyed tyre flopped around. Then the wavy black line vanished, and there were score marks in the asphalt, as the rim started running on the pavement. Then the straight-line score marks vanished, and regular indentations started to appear in the road surface, as the rim wore away and he started running on the spoked cast hub! The indentations from the hub spokes were so bad it was like driving over crawler tractor grouser indents! What was worse, these hub indents in the highway ran for about another 20 kilometres before they ran off to the shoulder and stopped! I always wondered what alerted him to his wheel-less problem? Most times, it's a passing truckie on the radio, giving him a little clue on why he's 2 gears down on that stretch of road - and she seems to be pulling real heavy tonight??
So you just bury a septic tank in the back yard, fill it with wine and let it sit a few years? I don't know a thing about wine . . .
Brown Chardonnay.
Years ago I was out on a tow on a certain stretch of I-90, these jet black squiggle marks appeared on the road surface and went back and forth at a rapid pace for about 200' then black strips caused by duals took over. When I got back to the shop I mentioned it to Kevin/owner. * Oh crap I forgot to tell you about the 1:am call two days ago. Semi was passing a Mazda Miata he looked in his right mirror and noticed the Miata headlights vanished, he looked in his left mirror saw the headlights shining out at a 90* angle and at the same time felt the truck bog. He realized what was going on and was smart enough to just pull the trailer hand valve down and locked the trailer brakes. The Miata is setting over in the yard, you can see where it tried to climb the car. The lady driving it fell asleep and drifted under the trailer as he was passing. Scared the **** out of her, she was standing with a trooper when I arrived, the legs of her pants were soaked front and back, tire shop sold eight trailer tires.
In the 1970's and early 1980's, a friend ("Dasher" was his nickname) was manager of the Kalgoorlie branch of the Gascoyne Trading Co, a big West Australian trucking company from the late 1930's to the mid 1990's. Gascoyne Trading got into road trains early in the piece, and they ran road trains out of Kalgoorlie hauling gold and nickel ore in the early 1970's. These were two tandem-tandem dump (tipper) trailers usually hauled by White 4000's, or sometimes Macks. The Govt built a new highway between Kalgoorlie and Kambalda about 1972 and it was one of the best highways in Western Australia, back then. On this day, Dasher and another Gascoyne driver were hauling nickel ore from North of Kalgoorlie to the Kambalda Nickel Smelter for treatment. They were purring along with Dasher well in the lead, and Dasher noticed a VW Beetle creeping up on him (truck speeds were limited to 80kmh in those days, and they didn't have big HP anyway). Dasher forgot about the VW and his mind wandered off onto something else - when all of a sudden, he was shocked back into the present by a jerk, followed by massive crashing/bashing/screeching sounds, that frightened the crap out of him! He looked in the rear view mirror, and was amazed to see a Beetle standing upright on its rear bumper, against the side of the rear trailer body, and spinning around and around, bashing into the trailer body repeatedly!! Next thing, the Beetle flew out away from the trailer body, and rolled into a pile of wreckage in the roadside drain! Dasher said there were papers and books and glass and debris, flying through the air everywhere, while all this was going on!! He said it was like something out of an American action movie! He pulled up and ran back to the wreckage, still trying to figure out what had happened! He came across this little Asian guy crawling on his hands and knees in the grass - and this thought ran through his head, "God, what have I done, I've crippled this guy!" So he ran up to him and asked if he was O.K. The little Asian guy says, "Yes, I'm O.K. - but I've lost my glasses, and I need them!". It turned out this little Asian guy was a University student who wore Coke-bottle glasses, and who couldn't see anything without them! So he was on his hands and knees groping for his lost Coke-bottle glasses. After they found his glasses, Dasher asked him what had happened. The little Asian guy said, "I was just starting to overtake you when the front LH (passenger side) tyre blew, and it pulled the car around sharply to the left, and the front of the car went under your wheels!" They examined all the wreckage and marks on the road, and figured out that the VW had just got in front of the rear trailers front bogie, when it swerved left with the tyre blowout, and dived in between the two trailers! The front bogie of the rear trailer then ran straight over the hood (bonnet) of the VW, flattening it completely (as there's nothing much there but sheet metal anyway) - and as the VW came out from behind the bogie, the VW rolled and twisted, and stood up vertically against the side of the trailer!! It then "pirouetted" on its rear bumper several times (which is what Dasher first saw in the rear view mirror), bashing against the side of the rear trailer several times, before it got flung out across the highway! All the books and papers Dasher saw, was the little Asian guys University study books and papers - Dasher said they were spread over the highway for a couple of hundred metres, and they spent quite a while picking them all up! The little Asian guy was relatively unhurt, just a few cuts and bruises - but the VW Beetle was scrap!
One of those days
Ain't hitting the like button on that.
That's fun . . . Going to try to weld it or replace the rod?
It's a rental. They're going to try welding it in the morning. If that doesn't work, there is a good hydraulic shop locally that can take it apart and replace the rod.
It was welded originally....
Not while it was assembled and on the machine.
And it appears as though a poor quality weld was what started the failure. Not much chance of successfully repairing that on the machine, at least not long term anyway.
Not quite carnage, but most definitely a bad day at the office! https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3123249151153152
The Welder arrived at 1030am andeft at 1230pm. I ran it for 4 hours after the Welder left, and it's still in one piece.
It'll be interesting to see how long his repair weld lasts, because there appeared to be a lot of crystallised metal in that shaft at the fracture. A perfectly clean weld joint with no oil, proper heat treatment, pre-weld and post-weld, and removing the crystallised metal around the fracture, would be necessary to ensure a good weld repair.
As that failed there is likely a stub portion of the shaft inserted into the cross tube for align and stress control, with that broken will not last long.
One end or the other should have a spherical bearing. Straight pins and bushings on a thumb don't allow for flex and side loading. Just my opinion.
In the late 1960's my dad bought a 1965 Pacific logging truck. It was the first truck with sixteen foot bunks in the area. He was hauling a load to the sort yard driving down a long straight stretch. You haven't seen dust until you are following an off highway truck on a dry gravel road. He glanced in the mirror and saw a bright orange pickup box flying through the air into the ditch then the front half of the pickup followed it. He stopped and backed up. It turned out to be a crew-cab with four guys in it and no one was badly hurt. The pickup had pulled out to pass the log truck when they came to a single lane bridge. The pickup tried to get under the load of logs but it did not turn out well. A late sixties pickup would not have even had seat belts in it.
This is a fixed mounted concrete pump used for pumping paste (concrete mixed with tailings) back fill in an underground mine. It uses poppet valves for suction and discharge instead of a rocker valve like a truck mounted pump. We've been washing out pressure poppet seats, discs, and nose cones at an alarming rate, we've been pumping to the highest levels they have ever tried to pump to. When they wash out it's about 6-8 hours of down time, the mill has to cut tonnage because they can't put full tons to our tailings pond, and the delay in backfill delays when areas next to the back fill can be mined. I think parts are $5-$10k per washout. Needless to say it's become a very expensive problem with a lot of people asking questions. The operators have been noticing the pump randomly goes from minimum speed to max speed each stroke. It finally did it while I was up there about an hour before the poppet washed out. Pump speed is supposed to ramp down at the end of a stroke of the material piston, shift poppets, and ramp back up. Instead it's doing 1 stroke at max pump speed, shifting poppets, and doing a stroke at minimum pump speed. The whack in pressures is probably the root cause of these washouts. Now we need to figure out what's causing the controls to not ramp up/ ramp down.
Will likely find that no matter the engineers basis, that the material will continue to wash the seats as is too aggressive for the system. We were explained by a engineer that the Dirt Burner Condensate Pumps used at our river water intake system were being brought to speed wrong and eating the volutes as well impellers due to aggressive sand volume. Was not the material but the way operations ran the pumps. He was wrong. Your program speed changes are not helping but aggressive materials does what is does best, eat machines.
I'm about 99% sure it's either a sensor, wiring, or PLC card causing it. Even when not going to uncharted territories it does it, right around the time operators started noticed the pump speed going nuts is when we started eating poppets like candy. It ate another 2 nights ago. The head pressures at play here are pretty substantial, around 800' of vertical and it's not a straight up vertical run. I just got a call from our paste plant operator, the pump feeding the pump shown above made some "bad noises," is tripping, and won't pump. I have to wait till after blast to check out the carnage. It shouldn't trip, it should just sit there on the pressure relief. If everything is set properly it should be destroking the hydro pump and not able to whack high pressure switch or trip motors. I might have some more pictures to add in the morning. Of course I go on days off in the morning for 14 days though volunteered to come in 2 days early to work with the factory guy when he comes out to site. I'm hoping the grey hair and education this thing is giving me will pay off in the long run. The other morning at breakfast after getting my ass kicked by it for some of the night a click out of delirious I'm attempting to explain what's going on to our engineer as #2 in the mine was ease dropping. It's either a good or really bad thing she knows my name...
Is there a rep for the machine Processor near to callable to diagnose this? Is there access to the programming to read the process as running to catch the glitch you suspect?
Yes, yes and yes. The way this mine works we have fixed plant mechanics (me) and electricians. If they got word I opened up the electrical cabinet to see if the lights on the PLC were lighting up I would be on the next boat out of here. We only have 1 PLC guy, he's on the complete opposite rotation I'm on. I've gotten to know the factory rep and have been working with him. He's a mechanical engineer who spent 4 years as a field service guy first. He's not a PLC programmer/ electrical engineer and needs to consulate with their electrical engineers for some of the programming. The current round of electrical engineers weren't around when our pump was commissioned. The issue we are seeing is basically the PLC is missing an input from a sensor missing adjusting pump speed for a stroke the pump, mid stroke it should run a pump speed set by the hopper level, when one of the differential cylinders gets towards the end of the stroke pump speed should ramp down to minimum pump speed, poppet valves should shift, differential cylinders should start moving, and pump speed should ramp back up. It's doing 1 stroke at minimum pump speed, and 1 stroke at a pump speed determined by hopper level. The manufacturer wants to throw the latest and greatest program at it to update our 10 year old programing. I'm 99% sure we'll still have issues if we don't figure out where the issue with the hardware is.
And you are right. I've probably seen it a dozen times in my short career where some machine is doing something whack, and after all the troubleshooting, it was a failed sensor or cable that still gave somewhat plausible responses. I was just a fly in the room (19 year old intern) and sat through daily meetings about a specialty parts washer that wasn't cleaning parts. The engineers argued constantly over whether it was a PLC issue, sensor issue, water system issue, pump failure, etc. Ultimately, a poor maintenance schedule and some failed sensor/sensor cable was the root cause, but it took them a couple weeks to sort it out with a lot of arguing between engineering department and the union ran maintenance department. Made me never want to work in a high production machining facility ever again. Nobody wanted to be accountable or responsible for it, always trying to pass blame to some other department.
Barrelroll: The electricians on site (and possibly the PLC guy)should be working with you on this problem. You need to see what causes the speed to change and verify that the inputs and outputs match with the programmed values in the program. The only way to do this is work with the other groups. We had dosing pumps that were similar in operation and when there was a problem, operations would call the mechanic to fix the symptom instead of getting to the root cause. Some of our trades people would not want to work togeather so lots of good parts were ruined. Good luck. Cam
New DPF cleaning technique?
Friend at Cummins here noted have had a few of these, self feeders. Hard to imagine, some how gets raw fuel buildup on exhaust side with the DOC system, engine turbo seals fail either of bad repair, bad cartridge, poor aftermarket, or the excessive heat and adds to the raw fuel thru EGR side into intake. Becomes a unable to stop until runs out of oil scenario, nearly as bad as a DD Blower Seals failure.
Remember this one I posted several months back- It ran away. It sat in a impound yard up till a month ago, the guy who owned it sold the truck someone in Floida, They drove 3,000 plus miles put a used turbo on it. It had 8 lbs of oil pressure once started at 1500 rpm. Took off for home, made it 45 miles to Arrowhead-seized. Setting in impound yard in Pendleton. *
Most certainly remember that one, got my attention to pay attention on these engines. Why in any value of Sense would any engineer acquainted with how diesel engines work even consider to duct exhaust into the intake? Once carnage as that occurs, jerk it and strip it down as in no way would trust ever again not.
On that note, that ISX I had been driving that lost trans, locked so tight engine went from 15-1800 to ZERO instantly. Broke loose and rolled up Two More Times, replaced busted flywheel housing, clutch, most of clutch linkage, trans and several other sub components. NOT EVER Dropped pan, 485,000 miles, intend to drive it out past 500 and then sell or trade off. Would not be my ass in that seat EVER again.
Cat or maxxforce ct13 in cat 680 truck. Just a head gasket failure!
Ugly
I never thought of using drums like that. Way better than jack stands on dirt
Cat C18 in a D9T. The latest in 2-piece crankshafts. Cat have no idea why it broke. I can guess. 20,000 hours of hard work is possibly most of the reason. It's been rebuilt with a new crank. Every spec checked in the block, nothing found out of order.
Post some close-up photos of the fracture face from both halves of the crank. I'm not a gynaecologist but I'm willing to have a look......
Snapped Counterweight ear in half, That's a New one on Me. Journals all appeared normal?
Sorry Nige, haven't got any other photos. This is the nephews tractor, he runs around 40 Cats, the tractor came in, got rebuilt in short order, went straight back to work, and the crank went to scrap. He doesn't pore over fine details, just buys new stuff when it breaks, he works on the basis he got 20,000 good-paying hours out of it, so it's time for all new parts. The mining companies pay him good money.
I'd be checking that crank hub, see if that inertia ring is seized or has a dented case. Hard to believe 20k suddenly resulted in a fracture on its own.
Yes, you'd have to think there was a vibration problem behind it. I didn't see the overhaul, but there would have been all new components gone in, including the damper. He doesn't skimp on the repairs, all new Cat parts all the time, the mining companies pay for it all!
I got told that was "offensive" for saying that al work Oh darn. Its offensive you're offended so howboutdat? Same person whined when I told another dude he did such a great job that I could about kiss him on the lips and impregnate him. He got let go not long after, mostly for being a POS, but also the boss was tired of him being a whiny bitch.
I’d double check on whether it got a damper or not. Was the crank the original.?
It was original, AFAIK. The nephew and his employees know Cats inside out, they've been doing this for a long time, and they work in closely with the Cat dealer, so if anything was suspect, it would've been addressed.
That being the case I'm somewhat surprised that they don't have better photos, but at the end of the day it is what it is. Also regarding your comment of 20k total hours on the crank being a factor I would doubt it. We'd normally expect a crank to go at least two and possibly three engine lives.
Cat has some really good failure analysis training. Someone knows where the failure started, unless the fracture surfaces obliterated themselves. From the bad pictures I'd suspect it started in the rod journal radius.
It broke at the weakest point, after X amount of torsional cycles. Out of 6 3406/C15 cranks I've seen broken, 5 broke just like that one.
Surely they must have an ECM download.? I’d be interested to see that. The one thing I can practically guarantee is that if it was in a dozer it hasn’t been over-revved.
Sorry Nige, I can't acquire any further information, I'm not part of the nephews operation, and I only speak to him on an irregular basis. I just picked up the photo from his Farcebook posts.
Sounds a bit like our family. Something along the lines of - "Can't live with 'em. Can't kill 'em."
bobcat 331 all swing bearing bolts gave up. . Got to use the new truck, had to get plates first in the morning. Didn't even have all the doors back from weld shop yet.. Edit. Are photos even attaching?
Can't see any, maybe have another go attaching
Perkins JG 4.203.2 remnants..
This happened this week. This 7810 lives on the manure spreader. I took it off the spreader a week ago to grind hay and noticed the wear in the eye for the pin. I commented about getting a new bar, but it wasn't deemed an immediate concern. Seven days later it snapped off while hauling a loaded spreader. I had not noticed the crack in the drawbar as it would have been removed from service right then if I had. Luckily no one was hurt, and we were able to swap tractors easily enough when it did snap off.
It had been working on the break for a while. I think Deere offers a drawbar support for use with grain carts for the 7xxx. I know they are available for 8xxx.
Beat me too it needs more support I've seen a few home made versions that work well
3406C 300 hours after an in frame. Didn’t get a damper…. Possible contributing factor from what I’ve since read.
Pakaistani truck rebuilders would have that welded up and temporarily purring again in a few hours.
Yes indeed--the most overlooked item concerning a rebuild. People very concerned with buying genuine OEM parts, afraid of aftermarket, yet too cheap to buy a new damper.
I have replaced two dampers now with Vibra-tech (I think) rather than OEM. Any thoughts versus OEM on vibra-tech?
Nothing wrong with them, the major manufacture of dampers. Vibra Tech took over after the 100 year old French company that invented dampers went out of business in late 80's And that company built most all OEM dampers. All Cummins were stamped Houdaille. * Houdaille was the original.
Here’s another good one. Scraper spread and the d-8 was falling behind with pushing and ripping. They put the wannabe hero in the 7 to rip while he was pushing. The best scraper hand was picking up the windrow on the left and loading as far as he could on his own then waiting for the 8 to come over and finish loading, said hero decided to clack over and push him through… guy in the 8 loaded the last one, hit reverse and went to back in behind and pick him up. Didn’t look over his shoulder….. tore a hole in the hydraulic tank and knocked the fuel tank clean off, blowing out the back window and dinging up the frame. Nobody hurt fortunately but the 7 lost. 8 had a scratch on the ripper frame. I was cleaning it up and swinging one of the tanks in on that 7 when one of the guys came up and said “that’s all well and good but how do you plan on getting the smell out of that seat?” That’s how it looked when we got to it. Luckily was able to find a couple used tanks, a used window with new gaskets and fix the dinged up cab. It was still an expensive mistake though and that dozer sat out there for all of them to look at for a couple weeks waiting on parts.
D8 operator gets the pineapple and flight home in my book.
It would depend on how many screw-ups he’s had or if he is a good operator and this is his first. On a long day, on a crew, sh** happens
Cat pump we had on a high pressure washer.
Neither were fired and both deemed partially at fault. One definitely should’ve looked and the other shouldn’t have been there. Been a year or so though and neither work here anymore. It’s basically a revolving door of operators coming in and out around these parts….
That is a rare level of talent. Just WOW!
Not gonna get your core charge back on that one. Joe H
Truck should have been scrapped 30 years ago
Agree---A proper size excavator with a shear would be on the order of the Big Muskie. To properly snip -scrap trucks & earthmoving equipment. It should have a shear/snip that could handle two D10's at once or 5 semi trucks side by side. Like a gigantic T-Rex gobbling up large steel machinery and turning it into bite size pieces.
Let me guess, “let the clutch out easy, timed the shifts perfectly and never got past half throttle, then she just let loose”?
Maybe Vtech's crew's been working on it. Wondering what these funny shoulder bolts are left over from. Seems a bit more oil should have come out of there too ? Joe H
To reply to all of the above replies about how that happened. I like posting things like that because it creates a guessing game for others of {Martha look what some lowlife sack of manure did to this truck, why any halfwit moron can see the idjit popped the clutch, I tell'ya Martha what's the world coming too.} * Many ring gears are riveted to carrier case, and rivets fail. Rockwell used rivets for years, SQ100's was a common one from factory with rivets. GMC/Chevrolets liked rivets also on some larger corp drive axles. If those fail at 60 mph road speed just what kind of chaos do you folks think is going to take place.
I need to show the carnage on the sheer that has bin used to cut axles! I like that one TS!
It's that time of year. *
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Good grief. How does that happen on startup? Forgot to torque the rod bolts?
Looks like a school. One instructor babysitting 22 teenagers, most under the influence of various substances, explains why.
That one has been around for awhile on FB. More than likely--slightly out time on cam by the way it fired---but starting without Ex Man and turbo is stupid to say the least.
I don't know what happend it didn't make any noise
It just stopped moving all of a sudden dur hurr
Ouch. I see two stacks, D10?
Don't have a photo--but the old boss told me this morning of a carnage incident on one that was headed to the stockyard for trade in. Was in a Detroit authorized repair shop in Idaho--anywho upon starting it ventilated--ruptured the block in the shop on start up. Didn't get the full details but that shop is stuck for a DD15.
yep d 10
Not much makes me go hmmmmmmmmm these days but this was one of those times. Certainly won't qualify for Core Credit. 793F cast (as opposed to the former fabricated design that did have major cracking issues) rear wheel group. As the boys in Suriname would say - "Boss, she done broko"
More pics....... And before anyone asks yes the wheel rim retention hardware was all still tight.
That looks expensive Nigel!
From memory Reman rear wheel groups go somewhere around $250k a copy. Core Credit loss probably another $100k+ on top of that. EDIT: I would imagine the only parts that will be salvageable from that unit will be the spindle & brake pack, plus maybe the two planetary carriers and the outer cover.
Din't hear or Feel Nuffin, just stopped moving!! Famous Last Words.
Makes me wonder if the inside wheel was cracked.
Why the change from fabricated to cast ? Cost reduction or longer life ? Was the fabbed version modified to try to fix the cracking problem, and then they gave up and moved over to cast ? Looks like it started inside, could be the radius on the bottom of a bore was not large enough, and fatigue set in from a too sharp corner.
It was not. The 6-piece fabricated version got up to something like GEN 6 IIRC and whatever was changed they couldn’t stop the cracking. Eventually they said screw it and switched to a 1-piece casting. I’m sure that initially the fabricated version of the wheel got the nod because it offered “significant cost savings”. I have never seen a failure in a cast wheel anything remotely resembling this one. I can only assume there was a defect somewhere deep in the casting that escaped QC and eventually failed in high-cycle fatigue mode.
I have absolutely zero knowledge or experience with that particular unit, but my clueless eyes can see potential wear marks and corrosion that suggest it was running for a period of time after it had started to fail???
I’m sure you’re right. Cracks like that one don’t develop overnight. Also it’s not easy to spot a crack on a machine that spends most of its life bathed in mud.
Especially areas encased by other mechanisms as Rims or Tracks packed with said Mud.
Kind of a add for these conditions, concrete company tried a experiment with their trucks and drivers attempting to speed maintenance and dispatch for whatever reason. Trucks have been actively electronically monitored thru a paid for program that transponder reports engine data, drivetrain other info and tracks service hours for couole of months. Last week the company added Drum turn and speed log as well live dispatch messaging. First two accidents from distracted drivers were minor fender benders, last one the truck was totaled but driver is OK and no one else or any other vehicles involved. Dash Mounted Tablets are coming OUT of the cans end of the week, subscribed program being cancelled.
The company has their own End Dump and Bulk Trailer transports for each yard, the accidents were two mixers and one Aggregate End Dump. And mistyped Can shoulda been Cab. Company is going to keep the maintenance side of the program, transponder will remain on the machines. Garage Mechanic at yard I deliver to is NOT enjoying the new game, Repair Orders seem to live on forever after completed where Home Office is supposed to Archive yet has not in over two months so is become loaded with stuff that have to sort thru to find current.
Sad, but true. My outfit got a lot better when the mechanic could close a work order just like the parts dudes. When Finance saw the discrepancy, conclusions were drawn
On the Cat 793f....it says 9 tons lighter than the competition.....well we know where the weight savings came from....
”9 tons” is very subjective. The big variable is with what sort of body it is equipped. I’ve seen some bodies that weighed 20 tonnes and others that weighed over 40.
That is what corporations do they saddle themselves with gratifying down loaded sub important info. Penske has all of company info loaded in their computer and spit out generated piles of orders that are full of coded garbage that they only know--all arriving once a month. No real way to track and that is the way P wants it. Streamlining maintenance is always the main selling point of any program. The credible way of a hard copy file folder was too easy. Dispatch can't even have a live conversation with shippers/receivers these days, everything is by email, no one has a working relationship with other business people.
Glad I retired. Most of the people at the wholesalers I dealt with retired within a month/year of my retirement. Our most important inside sales lady left the same day I did. I preferred the phone over email.
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And I just finished “redneck sculpting” the king pin bearings seal register on that axle. About two months prior. Even after hub blew - owner was arguing that there’s no oil going in to it, never mind the plug!
The carelessness never ends. Just a constant stream of inexperienced, inconsequential, so called truck mechanics, gracing the dealerships today. This hub was serviced by a dealership up north and the wheels fell the F off by the time it made it to Cantwell. Should the driver caught it before the wheels launched into the tundra? Maybe. Should’ve would’ve. Shame on the mess.
Never noticed the wheels coming loose? ***
The trailer looks like an iceberg with tail lights, dark, blowing snow and the road is rough. The driver didn’t notice anything at his Healy walk around/pee break, but yeah. That would have been hard to miss.
Have to be looking first, he probably never looked down or even walked around, with as quiet as cabs are with the radio going. Happens all the time even in summer.
I have to add there Coaldust---just 6 weeks ago one of my old companies {brand new 2025 Cascadia's} was on it's maiden voyage, driver just moved his stuff from old ride to the new. He left the company yard and made it exactly 28 miles before the left drop axle {tire & wheel & hub} shot off hitting the quarter panel of a on coming car just before Wallula Junction. The right side was still hot to the touch when I got there 45 minutes later, {old boss called and wanted me to go look at it}. It made it through the Hendrickson factory, Freightliner assembly plant, the Freightliner dealer that ordered it, Penske FHWA inspection, and the company flunky that adds tire chains and is suppose to give it a go over. * Five different facilities and not a one checked the drop axle hub oil levels or even filled on build. The driver never heard a thing he said--as he was walking around with his ear buds in. * Everyone is in a hurry--you know time is money----the dumbest statement there is.
My buddy spent 21 hours on OT straightening that mess out. Had to drive from ANC to FAI for parts. Then, halfway back to ANC. Young and energetic. Sounds ridiculous today, but I remember doing stuff like that. Shame on the mess.
Don’t dealerships do pre-delivery inspections on new units? Or have times changed?
Yea they do and yea they still Fk it up.
photo's won't upload...
Invisible photo.?
I hear they are having a bit of snow there as of late.....
They've come to me JPG files and for some reason even though they show as loaded up they won't show on the thread?
Ahhh, might of been a bit on the large size, try this. Customer sent this through earlier today, safe to say there is a few grands worth of damage in there.
It seems as dealerships can’t do anything correct these days. Every mechanic I know, that worth anything, ( and there’s not much of them around), and used to work for dealers - eventually leave. Just last Saturday, I vent to local Freightliner/Western Star dealer. After noon they were the only ones open. Needed a piece of 1/2 airline for the triple axle equipment trailer. There was only one parts guy there. He had no slightest idea what is “1/2 inch DOT airline”, and “compression connector for it” sounded like something they say at pharmacy convention to him! I asked him “do you only carry push-in connectors? ” - he didn’t know what I was talking about!!! There was a pair of pigtail hoses laying on the counter, eventually conversation turned to “you mean like those”, I said “yes, but straight, not coiled”. Still he goes “what is that VIN number”?! Craaaap!!! They don’t know nothing without computers and VIN numbers these days!!! And he is about 40 years old, parts guy at major truck dealer! And he have no clue what is DOT airline, and what types of connectors used with it! Ended up scrounging for pieces of airline in my shop, found 6’ of 3/8. Went to Home Depot and bought 1/2 to 3/8 connectors, and fixed the darned trailer. And I don’t even know what to blame the whole situation on - massive illegal drug use, or overwhelming amounts of cases of infants getting dropped on their heads!!!
Ah, the good old "go in there with a shovel to clean out the shrapnel" final drive failure..........
Blame it on the companies, all they want is profit, not good staff, this started 15 years ago when the then through flow of school/university leavers taught in the everyone got a participation medal ideology came straight into management because they had a " degree " they are also so self confident and think no one is as good as them and everyone else is replaceable. Vtecs thread is all the proof you need of that. people of our generation who know their worth won't stop where they're not appreciated, and this goes for all staff admin, parts guy's, mechanics etc, all get the **** end of the stick and move on, while the problem stays in management because the one and only thing they are good at is bullsh!t and blaming others.
Generally speaking, the partspeople at dealerships around here are pretty good although there is probably the odd exception. Service depts i couldn’t say
Our parts guys were good. It helped that we were a manufacturer so they had to know what things were so they could put together an issue when a work center on the floor wanted it. They had their book with each issue for each center that was put up on a pallet or in a large create and delivered to the floor c/w a list of what was there and notes of an shortages. Worked extremely well. When we went on a field service call the service manager did a parts list for the job to which the service tech could add extras and heaven help the parts guy if you were on top of a mountain up some inlet in the middle of the night with the wrong parts. d.d.
Well ---there is always a couple/three sides to what goes on in shop/parts house. Unfortunately there are just as many mechanics that can't explain what they are after either--so you end up with two standing at parts counter with a huge question mark above their heads-blind leading the blind. If I have or had a counter man that was slightly clueless--{can you spin that monitor around-or do you have any old paper books with show and tell}. I will gladly walk back /down the parts aisles, lead them to the part, then explain the different varieties that grew from the same stalk of corn. At the local NAPA store I have been asked I don't know how many times for help to find a odd part for a customer, especially Ford parts years back. I have even had them call me at the old shop for help trying to figure out some odd ball obsolete air brake or air valve related part, because they knew I had old picture parts books going back to the 70's. If your dealing with a young guy behind the counter----be easy on them because in many cases it's easy to intimidate them in front of other customers. And one thing this OLD HARD ASS remembers--is being intimidated by old shop hands. It's not fun for them feel like a idiot-no one likes it, But you will gain a friend at the parts counter when you take the time to help them, and it makes them feel better about coming to work trying to help others just like you. Your Teaching. * We were all green as a gourd at some point.
Well! I do go behind the counter and stick my finger in to screen most of the times. What I didn’t mention ( because it was not really that important) - that guy was condescending and rude from the get go!!! And what truck dealer wouldn’t know what DOT airline is?!?! And even after him asking me about the “pig tail” hoses, and me saying “yes, like that - only straight” - what else the person wit two brain cells will need more?!?! Are you sure you’ve read what have written?! Should I take offence in your trying to blame me, and what exactly are you trying to blame me for ?! Being bad mechanic, or not being descriptive ore eloquent enough, for todays “less than bright” parts people?!?! I’ll go even further: if you care - call Beard Equipment in Mobile AL, ask them is Vlad descriptive enough when he comes for parts, because I’ve been behind the counter with each one of them, sticking fingers in the screen, even going together to the section in JD parts system where you select parts by dimensions, and I’ve never had any bad attitude or anything like that, because parts is difficult to find. And JD system is not like CAT, especially on “green” side. Where same serial number can be five different sets of parts, and I will not tell you which combination is in the machine you working on.
Turbo decided it wanted to be a two piece. They got it to the shop under its own power, but there's engine oil everywhere . Out the stacks, down the bed, all over the counterweight. Its going to need some cleaning.
Or when I’m in the field, and calling about the parts, and they can’t really understand what I need - they just text or email me illustrations, and I’ll call back with item number that is on that picture, of the part(s) I need. I’m a deeply frawed man - but being vague or inefficiently descriptive, or not being able to work with the part guy who is trying to help me - is not one of my sins!!!
She tried to propagate on cellular level! Likr simple organism!!!
This thread made me think of an auxiliary trans failure a few years ago….. My personal truck was a T800 wide hood. 18 main, 4 speed aux (APO1750-4). I had a driver it in as we had begun his training pulling the 13 axle. Getting out of this particular shipper we’d creep out with the back box in the 1st under so it was crawling and I could steer the trailer. I EXPLICITLY told him do not shift the aux trans until you’re on the highway and can select with minimal load on it. What’s he do…..damn trailer ain’t even out of the driveway as he’s pulling up a slight grade grossing 240k or so. Our normal routine was no shift until the top of the hill with the entire trailer was up and level. Then and only then would you begin to accelerate and shift the main. Not him. He’s torqued up pretty good, which is hard to tell with that much gear reduction, and decides to shift the aux from 1st under to direct. It sounded like a shotgun going off. Being down by the booster I was lower elevation than the truck and could see the back box dump its oil in about 20 seconds. This was the result……
If I say “that’s a bummer” - that will be gross understatement!
Did I say TVA-----no I don't think so, no I'm pretty sure I didn't, was I referring to you--- probably because I was referring to the industry as a whole. But for the simple fact you felt like you were singled out tells me---------------something.
So, do you think he thought he could "show off", or was he that dense that what you told him just didn't register?
Just wondering JY--that was a manual, not air? I rebuilt the 1241's but never a 1750. * https://www.pgttruckparts.com/v/vspfiles/static/resources/manuals/spicer/AMO1750-4.pdf
Its amazing how fast things go. One minute you're just working along, then the day just spirals out of control.
I think he was so overwhelmed he wasn’t thinking. It took awhile but he became a pretty good hand with the big trailers.
It was air. They’re basically the 1241 with a few upgrades, mainly on the input side. The issue we had was input torque vs gross weight. Over 200k it was limited to something like 12,000 ft lbs. Take the first gear in an 18 times 1850 torque and you gotta be really careful. I was in UT creeping out of a military site. Made the mistake of loading before all my help got there. Nobody watching and with everything in low low I had tons of multiplication going on. Didn’t know there was an old concrete footing under the gravel. Trailer deck crossmember caught it and brought me to a dead stop. Before I could get on the clutch the auxiliary sheared the mount bolts, ripped a PTO cover off and wrapped itself up in the airlines. I had it towed to KW in Salt Lake, ordered parts and fixed it in their parking lot lol.
It’s funny how that stuff goes. Sometimes it’s like “that doesn’t sound normal” and you have time to narrow down the origin. Others it’s “that doesn’t sou….kaboom. *** was that. Oh, I just ran over my own driveline.
Indeed! A new noise or slight vibration that you can't isolate and pinpoint, and I tell myself and our guys to pay attention because it will show itself - hopefully before the carnage!
I struggle with imagining new noises. When everything is 20 years old, it usually is making noise anyway. Just have to try and determine if it's just the same old noise getting a little louder, or if it's something new and need to be concerned......
One place none of that really fits is recovery. Too many odd sounds covering normal sounds & nothing is wrong, the sound of metal tearing---the next sound would be cable/hook in flight. Been there with that one.
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Can relate on parts mo rons. Pete I was driving several years ago 13 spd Eaton and shift knob leaked like a open hole. Stopped at Truck Centers Foristell MO, guy behind the counter as I walk up, explained needed 13 spd Eaton shift knob Red splitter control, Blink Blink, got a S/n? Gal in the back hollers I got it, comes out shoos the Boy off. Apologized he had not been trained better. Bought the knob kit had it on and gone twenty minutes with two Adjustable nut rounders.
One of my co workers noted a odd vibration and commented seemed instantaneous. We were picking up for two different jobs. Get back to yard his truck in shop, drove it back PD engaged as Intermediate drive shaft was Gone, beat marks everywhere, spit uJoint at back of front diff, shaft whipped and the also Dry Failing rear joint had enough. Shaft went to roadside. Week and half awaiting two yokes and new shaft.
Not sure if this should go here or in the overload of the day thread (or is there a brainless idiots thread?):
Wonder if the excavator got it out or it got stuck as well. There was a fair bit of water flowing there.
Doubtful in one piece if the engine quit. Wonder why he didn't try and stay a little more to the right?
Wonder why he tried it at all. So much for that 300thousand dollar piece… “Runs great, low hours, hardly used…..”
My question, Who connects the chain?
Thats one hydro locked engine! the air intake on those G's got moved to inside the engine bay under the bonnet on the left as you look at the truck, that went underwater in moments and it was game over. he probably heard someone say Volvo and thought Volvo Penta it's made for water
Not only hydrolocked, but the radiator fan probably grabbed some water and pulled itself into the core
This new Hitachi just fell sideways into Cottonwood Creek, at the Seward Meridian project in Wasilla. Shame on the mess. By the time this day is over, there might be two more,……. Notice the total lack of snow and the flowing water. Been a strange winter.
Cats don't play well with Fords.
Looks like somebody tried to sneak around the grader in a hurry . . .
Wife sent this from her phone! No need to consider Solar here, not exactly Storm Rated!!
It's another thing for Tornados to aim for--might give people living in trailer parks some relief.
https://www.tiktok.com/video/7479112585162394911
Mail is going to be late!
People have no idea beyond media or special interest groups, they find out the losses after damage is done and cannot be recovered.
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Allot of folks have guessed at this--imo it's Ford FE 427 Side Oiler aftermarket aluminum Dove block--note the three areas of bolt heads on side of block for cross bolt main caps. *
I should’ve taken a picture of my riding mower that the wife decided to “ventilate” the block on Saturday.. The look on her face was friggin priceless.!! It’s been awhile since I laughed that hard..
Looks like 'em fellers should have bought a better crank.
Almost to just at Grenaded.
I think that's a Callies high dollar crank. I think a little too much right pedal and highly flammable or non flammable material through intake. Or just a dropped valve. Could have been anything.
And it could be nothing more than a cheap Crower @ $7,700.00 * https://www.summitracing.com/search...on/crankshafts/make/ford/engine-size/7-0l-427
And you guys thought Cat parts are expensive.
Yeah--- diesels just don't explode near as good and provide the wonderful entertainment of a good old fashion gas pot.
Except . . . But . . .
Wow.!!! THAT was fantastic.!!
That was nothing---just forced explosion for entertainment, a small diesel taking a dump above. Now below this is a unintended nitromethane. *
I was at the Gator Nationals sitting a couple of feet past the start line.. It was the motorcycles turn to burn up the track.. They had a cycle with a blower on it.!! He started his “warm up” and gunned the throttle and the blower BLEW OFF THE ENGINE.. Thank God they required straps on it or I’d be DEAD.!!
Ah somedays, called to the yard to look a trailer over that just had 4 corners of wheel seals and shoes replaced. Moved it into shop, no pin in adjuster arm on one of the slacks, then moved along to look at the wheel the driver was concerned about, didn't look good from shoe side. Backed off shoes, pulled oil hub/air inflation cover--no oil. Roasted the inboard bearing and spun the ID race to spindle--ruined. But several issues I pointed to while I had boss videoing, all wheel hub covers were junk because can't be seen through. The sight glass can be replaced if the screws don't snap off, other wise it's a $100.00 cover per wheel. But as I stated to him you need to instruct the BIG {P} to replace those because it is a DOT violation because level can't be seen or inspected on a walk around. Chained it up and boss sent it back to BIG {P}. About 4 more miles and the possibility of a oncoming car taking it straight on. *
And to add to the above photo----That trailer finally got finished on the 8th of april, picked up loaded and set in a loaded lane. Just got off the phone with the boss asking {what do you think happened? it's now setting 150 miles away with the same hub smoking}. {They didn't replace that spindle did they?} {No, they said they could repair the one on it}. {Well obviously they failed in their attempt--should have demanded what I told you, now it's a emergency spindle replacement on a -5* load and that's going to cost}. Can't make the horse drink water.
Where if the Big ‘P’ shop did all these ‘Repairs’ they can only charge for first and owe for the remainder including lost freight. And yes, I still have a Hard Spot for the Big ‘P’.
No {if} they did them---it's being repaired in a independent shop with spindle replacement and all new bearings/hub and any related parts. It will be done by noon today supposedly.
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Well, this is different . . . Wisconsin crash: Semi hits high-voltage power pole in Dane County A truck hauling food hit and downed a high-voltage power pole on northbound I-39/90 near Stoughton early Friday. www.fox6now.com
Must be the time of year for that, this weekend a pickup with trailer was shown tangled up in 7,800 volt transmission lines with driver stuck in cab on the westside. * Driver crashes into pole on Highway 101, suspended in power lines Washington State Patrol said the driver inside the truck is not injured, but is suspended from power lines. www.king5.com
Steel Tower with at least 240,000v lines in WI. And just HITH did that pickup drop that pole and still get entangled in the lines?
I'm not the smartest guy, but that sure looks to me like the pole had tipped over before the driver got there, and the the pickup rode the line up until he stopped.
I have seen a truck ride up an anchor line for the pole and right up into the transformer on the pole. Driver stayed in the near vertical truck. I was right behind him and he fell asleep and drove off the road and truck went into a vertical jump and boom. Oil from the transformer damaged my roof and hood and ruined my windshield. From behind, I was like how in the heck did a truck drive into the air.
I don't know how he ended up hanging mid air, not my problem. Just posting the situation. But at that point a 7800 vs 240,000 volt line is kind of mute, both will turn a person to a cinder instantly. * Kid I went to high school with {Dutch Haberman} hit a power pole, he got out of his pickup and stepped on a hot line-blew his legs off and fried the rest. He was a good guy he was. His sister hit black ice lost control, thrown from car, laying face down unconscious drowned in 6" of water. The oldest brother was involved in a accident on the old Canyon Road riding with three others, two of the three other died, Tom moved away never came back to town.
They all sound like they were terrible drivers...
Electricity is a Fickle Witch, had the honors to ride a Insulated Line basket and handle 33,800v with Insulated Gloves. Could 'Feel' the energy running in the lines, conductors warm in 26degree weather, Replaced a bad Insulator passing current to a tower and came off the structure. Worked LIVE. Impressed this old Wrench.
Holding the welding cables when gouging will let feel the power of electricity. The cables will jump!
Remember gouging with the old Lincoln torpedo welders, they would rock sideways as you struck an arc, some with pneumatic tires would bounce, tough welders, moved diesel locomotives with them, thawed frozen metal water pipes with them good old days.
If you are ever in an electrically energized vehicle, stay there until the line is dead if possible. If you must leave, you must jump clear of the vehicle. Do not run, keep your feet as close together as possible and shuffle your way away from the scene. The voltage in the ground is rapidly reduced away from the point the line is grounded, could be thousands of volts per foot of difference. A big step gets you across the voltage, shuffling keeps both feet near the same voltage.
I don't ride in EV's.
Brakes froze up near Tok on the Alaska Highway. -70F
What were they carrying?
Is that fire damage? So its so cold the brakes freeze on, which causes enough friction to start a fire? Isn't it self correcting, gets warm enough and free's up? Or is it water in the air lines that freezes? Probably all silly questions, but it don't happen here in Australia.
A relay valve will ice up and the brake chambers eventually leak off enough air until the brakes set up or partially set up. Foundation brakes will catch fire, the grease in the s-cam bushings, air hoses and maybe a tire.
1073 from Canada.
UN 1073: Oxygen, refrigerated liquid (cryogenic liquid)
Good thing it was an isolated incident. If that tank was to leak and there were other vehicles or flammable materials nearby could have resulted in a much bigger fire.
It should brake well with oval drums.
For sure. I’m not certain how they will deal with that. Drag it to the terminal behind a heavy tow to unload? I don’t trust the tires. Vent the product in Tok and tow it? The tank inspection will be interesting. At least, it will require a hydro/VKiP. IDK? I wouldn’t touch it, myself. Maybe send it back to the manufacturer? Insurance claim it and scrap it? Every cargo tank fire I’ve been involved with was scrapped.
Some Cryogenic trailer specs. trivia * https://www.fibatech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Cryogenic-Trailers.pdf
I’ve never touched a MC338. I’m not even registered to do them. Probably only eight in the entire state. Although, I did start doing T75 cryos, starting last year. Like a giant vacuum style thermos bottle, of years past.
It might depend on how hot the tank got but I'd guess it wouldn't pass certification. They could probably pump the liquid oxygen into another tank. If not could vent it in an open area. I worked at a welding supply that had to vent a large liquid argon tank because it was contaminated. Whether they were allowed or just did it I don't know. Owner was a jerk!
That's a insulated tank trailer with two shells.
Inner tank could be fine.
When they replaced our large stationary tanks, they brought in a standard truck like in the pix, and set the pump to "suck" instead of "blow". Pulled it all out, changed out the tanks, and re-filled them.
This is fun . . .
Your idea of ‘fun’ is a lot different than mine! Good luck with the rebuild.
Replacing or " fixing " ?
Replacing. I had to replace the other side a year or two ago, the steel plate inside where the tensioner rod pushed broke and the rod punched through. Fabick Cat has the part on the shelf at the location nearest to me, which doesn't have all that much on the shelf. Something tells me this part is poorly engineered . . .
When a part like that is on the shelf in local dealerships you know there's an issue, that's a big expensive bit of steel to have lying around in a dealership, just in case maybe, one day, someone needs one
Lots of those been replaced one of the easiest parts to sell when parting one out. The 255/65 they made it much better
It be a TAD Bwoken.
Parked on a street corner in a job site minding its own business and got roughed up by a garbage truck in the wee hours of the morning….
That’s impressive poor thing took a really big hit
Atleast with only a hand full of parts it can be fixed. 10000 in parts but a hour or so of work!
Take a look at the mounting lugs. Fair bit of labor involved too. Garbage truck lost a fender and had a little dent in the box is all. Possibly needed a seat too….
Are they bent i thought if maybe camrea angle or something of the sort if the pin goes in ship it !!!!!
Bent bad enough the pin had to be cut out. Fab new and line bore. It was an insurance deal so it went to the dealer for repairs and I didn’t have to deal with it this time. Just got it back and they did a top notch job. Just under $20,000
The dealer must have replaced a lot of parts instead of welding and fixing the damage. At least it wasn't a hit and run where you're trying to find out who did it.
They fabbed the lugs, did a great job welding them on and line bored the final fit. The factory lugs are 30mm and you can’t buy metric steel anywhere around here so they used 1-1/4” and counterbored for the washers and snap rings. That all takes a lot of time. It was over 10k in parts alone and I’m pretty sure they’re $220/hour or more now. It was real close to my initial estimate after looking up all of the parts.
I had a stabilizer break when I was trying to dig a shallow drainage ditch in frozen ground. Whole machine slid back and the stabilizer hit a frozen lump. I pulled it back and welded it where it works but want to fix the top cylinder mount. The eye bent a little and one of the mounting ears bent out as well. I think with some heat I might be able to straighten the eye on the cylinder but don't know if it will need to be welded and rebored to fit a new bushing. If it does need it at least I can take the cylinder to a machine shop rather than having to have someone come out to line bore it.
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We have a document in engineering showing allowable metric/inch substitutions, seems the mills do similar, so we need to be able to react to what is available that week/month.
What is that torque convertor out of?
Cat 972M
Like like they got all the good out of that one...
I don’t think the one way clutch is one way anymore
I picked up a Chamberlain tractor for a song, because it had a nice front end loader in it, it had a 6 cyl Perkins, it had a cabin, and it was a great tractor in its day - although they're classed as vintage/classic today. The old guy who owned it said the engine wouldn't turn over, although they'd tried dragging it in gear around a field, to try and start it! So I got it into my yard, and started on what I knew would be a full and major rebuild. The Bad: It had about 30 litres (7.8 U.S. gallons) of water above the pistons, and about 20 litres (5.3 U.S. gallons) in the crankcase! And it had been in there for years! The cylinder head had multiple valves corroded to the extent that they wouldn't move. The intake hose between aircleaner and engine had multiple holes in it, and some of those holes you could poke two fingers through them. The rocker gear was covered in rust. Amazingly, it cleaned up O.K. with some caustic soda treatment. Kudos to the oil brand, the protection it provided was amazing. Four pushrods were badly rusted, and because they were pitted after cleanup, I decided to buy 4 new ones. Didn't want to risk a bent pushrod after a rebuild, because of pitting in the tubing. All the timing gears and the crankshaft gear were rusted beyond re-use, they were scrap. I don't know what they used for coolant, but it appears the only requirement was, that it had to look like a liquid. Some of the coolant passageways were almost totally blocked. I had to hammer an 8mm (5/16") rod into the rear lower part of the block for a couple of hours to clean out the ferric corrosion buildup. That's the water outlet in the pic below, with the remnants of the thermostat. The water pump was locked up solid with corrosion. All six pistons were rusted solid in their bores. 3 weeks of soaking in a 50/50 ATF/diesel mix got them loosened up enough to move. Despite about .030" wear in the bores, it still took me the best part of a day to hammer the pistons and rods out of the block! Once the pistons were out, there were 4 pistons with multiple broken rings, and 2 pistons where the rings had broken right up, and had started to make their way out the exhaust! The crankcase had about 25mm (1") of pure sludgy, near-solid crud in it. The clutch was worn down that much, the rivet heads on the linings were nearly gone! The transmission was also half full of water, and the countershaft was badly corroded, and was locked up solid! (no photos of that yet). On the engine, one of the two CAV fuel filter housings was gone completely! Thrown away and bypassed with a piece of PVC hose!!? The crankshaft had "30/30" written on it with a paint pen. Uh-oh, that has nothing to do with a Winchester rifle bore! - that meant the crank was ground .030" on both mains and big ends! And those bearing surfaces were badly in need of a grind! And guess what? Yep, you can't get .040" undersize bearings for the 6.354 Perkins! So - it was go looking for a replacement crankshaft. The Good: After a fruitless search for a good used crankshaft, I stumbled over an agricultural parts supplier in Czechia who could supply a brand new German-made crank for AU$950 air-freighted to my door! Woo-hoo! I picked up a new crankshaft gear locally (AU$100), and all three timing/camshaft gears in excellent used condition, for AU$150 - from the U.K. (via eBay). I scored a new unused Perkins engine rebuild kit, from a guy who had bought it, and never used it - for AU$900. A big saving on current retail pricing - and that price was delivered to my door. A new water pump kit was just AU$100. The water pump cleaned up nicely in the citric acid bath. The engine has unflanged, press-fit dry liners, and a little judicious welding saw them all shrink and tap out nicely. A good local engine shop has now installed the new (semi-finished) liners, machined them, faced the top of the block, machined the new pistons to meet the correct piston-to-head clearance - and I'm just awaiting some new conrod bushings, so I can start reassembly! I don't want to even count the number of hours that has gone into this tractor already - like all machinery restorations, it's going to be a labour of love!
More photos ....
And more .... (The amazing part about this stripdown, is the fact that the previous owner had tried to get the engine to START, by dragging it around his field in gear!! There are some people who should never be allowed to own machinery!)
That's some pretty severe neglect and abuse! The 6-354 is a very reliable long life engine and sips fuel. It was used in several tractors.
Highly regarded in marine applications as well....
https://x.com/i/status/2038646465652727847
The turn signal still works . . .
They don't build 'em like they used to! I can remember when everything was built out of steel, and you just kept on driving, regardless!
That looks all used up. Joe H
Oh MY Oh MY!! On BOTH!!!
I wonder just how far you have to drag a trailer to wear hubs and rims away like that? Got to be many, many kilometres. And surely the sparks would give you some clue? Trouble is, a lot of "steering wheel attendants" don't have any clues. A good friend drove from the West Coast of Australia to the East Coast around 1982, crossing the endless Nullarbor Plain on the way. As he's driving along, he sees a caravan (trailer home) ahead. As he gets closer, it's got a lean on it, and it's throwing out sparks - lots of sparks! He gets up close behind it, and the caravan is missing the LH rear wheel - and the hub! And the end of the axle is dragging on the road! So he passes the rig, and it's an 83 yr old gent driving a Landcruiser. My friend waves madly, and finally gets the message to the old fella, he has to stop! So he stops, and they both get out and examine the damage. About 9" is missing off the end of the axle, and the leaf spring has gotten so hot, it got to red heat, and bent over in a reversed shape! The old fella looks at the wreckage in wonder and says, "Gee! I knew it was pulling a bit hard! I thought it was the strong headwind! I had to go down a gear!"
More fuel more boost--a photo locally of a 5.9 that ran really good till it went "tink". Was said it made a tinking noise. *
Was the person that heard the Tink in the next county? Pic makes it look like 1 and 6 are pretty scored too? 6 is usually the first to go thanks to getting the least amount of air and the hottest coolant thanks to the others preheating it before it sees it. Just so happens I’ve been working on my old 95 12 valve that’s been sitting for years on the weekends lately. I’m hoping it never tinks like that!
Like the classic El Dorado movie, “I Heard A Noise”!!
Let me guess . . . It was in a pickup, rolling coal till it wasn't . . .
I will say, they did a really nice job of cleaning it up after! Not sure why??
I was thinking the same thing
Now for the laugh--it's listed on Market Place for $250, wasted time cleaning for scrap yard.
Whadaya mean you won't accept my core? Joe H
Does it come with a lock n stitch kit?
50% of what's listed on MP is either junk or missing necessary parts and pieces, especially when it comes to machine tooling. Don't low ball them--their nuts are already dragging, they know what they have.
What is visible is considered a 'Breakage" unit that needs further disassembly. Then scrappers will pay Clean Prices, around $30-50 total, in separated materials. Like a AC Compressor or a Copper Core with Aluminum fins, they either require separated and Clean or assembled and they break apart. Not worth the effort on my part most of the time as too little materials involved.
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Are the the same pistons as the 4BT engine?
I believe so, depending on CPL.
Reviving my old dodge that I’ve let sit and rot for close to 10 years. Not trying to make a ton of power with it but decided I’m probably in the category of needing head studs so I bought a set of arp 2000’s. Was on the final sequence at 125 foot pounds and POW! Pulled the head and welded it out…..
I suppose the funniest part is that with these studs, you have to bottom tap every hole. I decided the stock head gasket from ‘95 had made it this long, I didn’t want to disturb it. Spent a TON of time doing one at a time and running an extended length tap to the bottom of each hole then fishing a magnet in and out pulling chips only to pull the head in the end…. Only salvation is the cylinders look to be in great shape with the crosshatch still looking pretty fresh.
The company I bought the studs from offered to send me a replacement stud for free. I had a picture of another that, to me looked like it was stretched in the same spot and pointed that out. I don’t want to go back with any of them at this point. It’s not my first time and I don’t feel I’ve done anything wrong but they don’t know me from Adam. They agreed but couldn’t warranty something that hadn’t failed. I honestly was prepared for that and can’t argue it. Too many variables and too many people these days looking for something for nothing. They didn’t do the install with a calibrated torque wrench and mine hasn’t been on a tester in close to 10 years. They ended up selling me another set of studs at cost (about $150 less) with a 20oz can of the arp lube thrown in. All in all, it hurts but I’m ok with it and didn’t argue with them. The guy that helps me at work has a new matco digital torque wrench that I’m gonna borrow the next go-round just for piece of mind…. I’d think if one was off it would tend to read low but I don’t know.
Wouldn't be the first time. * My thought on studs--3406's,C15, N14, DD15, Series 60 and X15 don't use them. Ford used studs on the flathead V8 {21 stud} and those blew head gaskets like no tomorrow with real low compression, after 1953 ford stopped using studs.
With that being said, it’s a well known fact that in the performance world of these “automotive” diesels, if you increase combustion pressures to a certain point, you’re going to blow a head gasket with stock bolts. I have arp “625” studs in another truck that’s seen close to 70psi boost with a small set of compounds that likely produces quite a bit more drive pressure. They’ve been in since 2011 and it’s still running the stock head gasket. Something was wrong on the install this time. I’m thinking studs were soft but I can’t prove it. These hobbies are expensive….
Detroits Two Strokes and Mack EN series used studs, later bulldogs used head bolts DD 2 strokes are just history.
Correct--history, behind us, gone with the sands in hour glass. * Two key words--performance and "automotive, could just possibly be the real issue. But I was hoping someone else would inject those two needed words, it's not really the bolts fault.
When looked at old to new head bolts on the C15, was astonished as are torqued to a fixed value and turned addition degrees to force stretch. Was Visible old to new and as pulled the engine down second time the stretch on New used to new replacements was similar. Do not get that, torque to release, non sensical.
Agreed, for every action there is a direct and opposite reaction.
Was 125ft/lbs the ARP spec for your 5.9? Just wondering since I overtorqued mine to 110ft/lbs on my 6.9idi, but that only sees 10-15lbs of boost. Granted, that was 15 years ago, so never know where the quality of anything is at now.
Yes 125 is their spec for final torque on these 12mm studs.
The worst ones are the Torque to lead. You torque it so far, then have to tighten it up more, sometimes 50%. I have to make marks on a socket or extension and kind of guess, as to how far. They are one time use bolts and you can feel them stretching. I have never had good luck, with ARP bolts, especially in that application.
I’ve got a set of their premium 625 studs in my other truck that have been problem free for 15 years. They’re super expensive though and I didn’t feel I needed them for this one. Now that you figure in the head gasket set and additional studs I’m pretty well there and wish I’d have just gone that route. Lesson learned. Or I suppose the smarter thing would have been to leave the fuel and boost down closer to stock levels and none of it would’ve been necessary. No fun though.
Roaded our 966g loader out to one of the jobs this morning to trade for the 950h they’d been using. 950 needed a couple ac lines, seat air bag and a couple other minor things. Right before I got back to the shop with the 950 the belt started squealing a little. Gauges all good. Pulled in and had to move a truck out of the bay and smelled antifreeze. Water pump on the loader puked its guts and was gushing. Glad I made it!
Aftermarket suppliers for head bolts used in Cummins 885's including N14 are pushing/selling torque yield replacements, last five 855's I did a year ago all got standard original fasteners. I sent those back with a No No in my e-mail. I always replace head bolts on majors, but if for any reason a head has to come back off, not buying new head bolts each time when the bolts meet spec. This whole T/Y thing is a great way to sell fasteners and a money maker.
On the Cat C15 I did use aftermarket Head Bolts, Cryo Treated and had a CAT Accolade on them, from other users. Used Genuine Cat Rod, Rocker Shaft, Injector retainer and any questionable fasteners.
Cummins 855, on full OOC OH we replaced ALL head Bolts, doing maintenance repairs as leaking gasket or other issues reused the Inspected GOOD Ones, easy enough to see stress cracking forming.
Think you are exactly right, about the torque to yield being just a money maker. Probably built or rebuilt over a 100 engines over my lifetime. Never gave a thought about re-using head bolts until this TTY crap. I replace exhaust studs, bolts, Y flange stuff, the usual rusty stuff but head bolts, never gave them a thought for a lot of years. Don’t think I ever had a problem other than a set of ARP TTY bolts on my 5.3 GM motor, when I gave it a diet and 2 of them stretched so bad after the initial torque, I took the whole set out and went with GM originals. Pretty sure the ARP cam bolt is still in there.
One day the wind blew my train over.
Let’s bump this thread. Just returned from a road call to visit a late model, low hour kW T370 and PX7. The air compressor cracked around the circumference and puked the engine oil out. It appears the rear gear train is trashed. Hmmmm. It’s closer to Fairbanks than Anchorage, so it’s getting hauled to Fairbanks tomorrow. Probably needs a complete engine. Will post pics later. It has a 80% load of the 1075 onboard, so that will have to be handled.