We're looking for a heavy spec lowbed tractor. Something with a double frame preferably Cat Power an 18-speed, a brownie either 2 or 4 speed, 20-22k front, 20k drop & 52000 pound rears. Possibly open to 46s if it is a late model. I've looked all around truck paper and such where else can a guy look to find a decent used tractor?
Look for Michigan specials it is a heavy spec setup that should help with your search
One question, why the 18 spd with a auxiliary gear box? The 18 with lower drive ratio should be plenty. But with that said tractors like that used are not easily found, especially ones that are any good. 475 and up in horse power but nothing lower than 1850 torque for specs. And a used rig with your spec's expect 80K for one that's ready to work and that's on the low side. There were a few with really good heavy spec's for sale in California earlier this year because of non compliant on emissions. I would keep my eye's open that direction. http://www.roadranger.com/rr/ProductsServices/ProductsbyCategory/Transmissions/PCT_486870 Truck Shop
Be afraid to get anything pertaining to vehicle in Michigan with the rust belt. Seen few transmissions over there I was looking at and gave me the heebee geebee's looking at them.
As far as auxiliaries go....2 speed (1202) is almost bulletproof BUT you cannot shift up or down while moving. 4 speed (1241 or APO 1750-4) can be shifted while moving but the torque capacity drops significantly when GCW goes up, especially north of 150-160k. An 18 with 4.56’s is damn hard to beat. I’ve been all over the 48 and Canada with that setup and very rarely did I need the back box. Most of those miles was 9 axles and up. Back box is good for that go-home gear but those darn 4.56’s didn’t like that road speed. Poor pinion was really wound up!
https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/27975913/2004-kenworth-t800w Have you seen these? Hope the link works
Cody, Yes I emailed them Friday evening & should hear back tomorrow. TruckShop, You are right, these trucks are really hard to find used and with correct specs, wb, ect. Junkyard, I was looking for one with the back box so we could have a more highway friendly rear (.11's or .30's) and still be able to yank these big yarders all over the woods. You guys always have good knowledge & I appreciate your help!
Oh, and no on that rust belt zone for trucks!
The 4 speed is handy for that. My last personally owned truck was 18+4, 4.56’s and tall 24.5’s. With everything in the big hole it’d run 70mph@1500. You could run a lot faster but the rears would get warm quick. I always kept my rears low because it was so much easier on things. One drawback to the 4 speed is you can apply so much torque you don’t realize how wound up you may have things lol. That’s where full locking rears are nice, at least you can spread that load out over four axle shafts and as many parts as possible. If you do get a 4 speed I can share some absolute DO NOT’S for it. I don’t even want to think back about what those lessons cost me!
Action Specialized had some of their equipment for sale locally recently and I remember a tractor like what you are looking for, now I just have to remember where I saw it...
Its a spec it doesnt mean they are from michigan
I really wanted Bill Paulson's lowbed tractor but a guy in Oregon already had his name on it and he picked it up on Wednesday. That would have been excellent for what we want to do but not so good for what he is doing as he wants to make runs from Central Oregon into Idaho and such. That is a 30 mile truck and a Woods truck.
https://eugene.craigslist.org/hvo/d/1993-international-9400-low/6670310828.html A little light spec that you want, but the price may be right.
That's a weird drivetrain. 2 speed axles and a 15 speed with the U shaped shift pattern (progressive?).
https://klamath.craigslist.org/hvo/d/1995-peterbilt-lowboy-tractor/6710412211.html This rig has two speed Eaton 461 rears Truck Shop
The overdrive RTO 15 speed Eaton had fifth/tenth gear up against the dash. The direct RT 15's had standard pattern. Top gear in a RTO/RTOO is positioned where third on a 13 spd or 4th on a 10spd on the main shaft not on the input shaft. The 15 RTO was either .81 or .79 final ratio the RTOO {double overdrive} was .63. With 355 or 336 ratio and a RTOO 15 with .63 final you had a Monfort Lane runner around 105 with 336 rears. All RTO transmissions top gear is on the main shaft, That's how to tell the difference between a RT direct and RTO when the tag is missing. Pull the shift bar housing and take a look see. Note in the pic below that 4th is on the main shaft not the input shaft, on a {say for instance} RTLO18913A there is a reverser built into the shift bar housing so the shift pattern is standard on those models of 13Spd. Truck Shop
This is a great old video on how the Road Ranger works.
I would give Adelman's a shout …. If they don't have it in stock they will know where one is ? http://www.adelmans.com/ I like the low millage KW T 800 . That rig could walk a lowboy around country roads & not ask any questions . http://www.adelmans.com/kenworth-prime-mover-tractor3
That one is truly bizarre. 6700 hours but only 49,000 miles? 70K rears but powered by an L10 and a 7 speed? 58" tall fifth wheel. That had to be cobbled together from some very specific task. Maybe yard truck or some kind of work inside a plant?
I know a guy that bought a W900 tractor from an airport. Had about the same hours/mile, c13, super? 10, and 52k rears. Here's the specs on those axles. 5.52 is the fast ratio.
Those are airport or sea port trucks around here.
That 800 is typical civilian military spec's notice the paint ex navy yard truck. That's also why it has no balls under the hood, nice flat ground. Bought a 84 W900 for a AG company I worked for same kind of spec's and hours with no mileage. Truck Shop
Most of the heavy spec stuff I see comes from oilfield, or actually your area for logging. With the axle restrictions so many states have, there's just not a lot of need for most guys to have 52,000 rears, so very few get bought. When you say late model- how new are you actually looking for? The 2008 slowdown combined with the emissions regulations really slowed down a lot of buyers/ orders for trucks. Maybe something out of Calif, that's finally getting shoved out for emissions, but I think most of that has already left the state. Texas, Oklahoma, Alberta.
Honestly, I would be ok with anything from 90's to mid 2000's
You know TS, you never disappoint. I sure appreciate your wealth of information. Thank you to the rest of you guys that have shared lots of insight also.
Beast of a truck, If you don't need to be the fastest on the road. I do remember the L-10s did have a surprising amount of torque for their size. Or just drop an 8V92 and bigger trans into it.
Same place has some 8v92’s with jakes (not that they do anything but make noise) worth the $$. 10+4 behind that 92....heck yeah.
Imagine the rear end ratio is geared the checkered flag at the " slow race " . What I liked about it was the heavy axils & short wheelbase for on & off road play . At this price A feller could speck & build the truck out how he wants it . 1983 KW http://www.adelmans.com/kenworth-cab-chassis-truck What type of suspension & rear ratio do ya want ? http://www.adelmans.com/cutoffs V - 12 Cummins ? http://www.adelmans.com/cummins-vta28-725hp-industrial-engine-37108230 Those cat's at Adelman's keep a huge inventory . For my little operation I've found 400 horsepower & 4.11 rears work pretty good all around for muscle cars and over the road trucks .
I spent a little while cruising truck paper and craigslist, with your specs in mind. Its going to be kind of hard to find everything you want, so I think you're going to have to decide what your willing to add onto the truck, and what your not willing to do. I found very few that had a aux. More that had two speed rears. Adding the aux wouldn't be that hard if that's a must have. Found some heavy axle (46's) that weren't double frame. I wouldn't want to add double frame, that's a lot of work, you can do anything with enough time, but that's one I probably wouldn't want to do. Found some with heavy rears, but just 14k fronts. Putting new heavy front axle in isn't impossible either, but one I'd rather not do. Found some that were sleeper, some daycab, some of the sleeper stuff had the wheel base to add a pusher if you get rid of the sleeper, I wouldn't mind pulling off a sleeper and adding one of those fiberglass backs with window. Do you want daycab? I wouldn't want sleeper myself. Adding a pusher axle is easy, drill a few holes, couple airlines and controls, and your in business. If you have the frame length to work with. Its not too bad if you just have to move a fuel tank or air tank. I wouldn't hesitate at all if it was just missing the lift axle. Probably the other question is how much you want to spend, and how far are you willing to ship/ go get one? Texas is a long way from where you are, but they move trucks all over the country. https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/28164395/2001-kenworth-w900l?ST=Texas https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/27672529/2006-peterbilt-379 https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/6222179/2006-peterbilt-379 https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/27827123/2004-kenworth-t800
Some more: https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/28096699/1998-kenworth-t800w https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/24557445/2004-peterbilt-378 https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/24781933/2007-peterbilt-357 https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/24240891/1988-kenworth-t800
Now a little outside the box thinking, https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/25540831/2006-peterbilt-357 Pull the winch and add a axle https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/27319135/2008-kenworth-t800 Add a 5th wheel and add a pusher? It doesn't have much for miles. https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/24792411/2002-mack-cl713 Its a mack, but it has your aux, probably too much wheelbase (shorten it all?), pull the winch https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/26565881/1998-western-star-4964fx Here's really outside the box, pull the crane, sell the crane, add the pusher?
Here is a good one, it is about 40 in too long of wheelbase but it could be shortened. https://www.rbauction.com/2006-PETE...ile-app&utm_campaign=mobile-app-link-flagship
Those are Nice looking trucks crane operator . No idea why they would not work for the given task at hand ? I started out with a 1973 White 4000 & 290 small cam cummins engine, 10 speed & 3.70 ratio 34K rears . Had to replace a few clutches but the truck never let us down .
Having moved a lot of **** a lot of really ***ked up places I’ll say this....frame can’t be too heavy and rears can’t be too big or too low. Just think about it...low on power? That’s ok it’ll just take a bit longer to get there..... Rears too tall? Pop there goes a driveline or through shaft. Rears too light? Damn that housing is leaking oil or now has negative camber..... What happened to your truck man? It’s swaybacked like an old mare! Or worse yet it sits on a logging road in two pieces. My point is.....(drumroll please) I’ve cussed a little here and there when I was short on power. But I’ve never ever ever ever said man this frame is too heavy or these rears are overkil. You could blindfold me in the passenger seat and I could tell you by feel how heavy (or not) a truck is built. For your needs it’s a simple thing to me. 20k front, double frame, 52k rears (they live longer), full lockers (I HATE 2 speed rears), 4.56 ratio with an 18. Hit the hard to change specs in the initial purchase and build it into what you want. BTW it only took me half my life and over a million miles to learn what works in a jam and what don’t lol. I saw lots of smaller trucks get trashed early in my career. It made an impression.
That RB truck looks like exactly the thing if you can manage the ACERT. But that is a pre-DPF engine, pretty good I think. I bet it sells for a pretty penny though, everybody is going to want it, unless something is majorly broken. Funny the discrepancy between miles and hours. Works out to 60 miles per hour average.
Hallback what is the weight and brand of yarder you want to move? And what is the average % of grade you will climb? How much does the lowboy weigh? How wide is the load and total length? Is most of the off road Forest Service or other? Truck Shop
TS, Most pieces of equipment we have our between 105000 and 118000 pounds. Basically it requires a 3-3-2 setup with a 4 axle tractor. Our big yarder is 148000 pounds as it sits so it takes a little finesse to get it moved. It is self propelled so we have to pop the Steer tires and slip the axle shafts out of it when we move it but when we get to the woods we can just pop the tires on and axles in and road it to where we want for the most part.
That's about what I thought, early 90's I moved two yarders around for two different outfits.One Madill and one Skagit. I moved those fairly easy with a 400 Cat and a 9X4 with 4.44 ratio rears. The steer was 18,000 lb, rears 46,000 on eaton 402's. 3/8 os 5/16 insi frame rails, 12,000 lb drop axle-86 W900. Cozad lowboy. So your heavy side net 75 ton. Total around 189,000 give or take some. Look your options over real good. Truck Shop
Its really fun to shop for other people's trucks, with other people's money. $97,000- sure that doesn't sound too bad... These two are close to me. The first one (yellow KW) wouldn't be long enough wheel base to add your lift axle. And I don't think its double frame. But boy it would turn short with the set back axle and that wheelbase. https://kansascity.craigslist.org/hvd/d/2000-kenworth-800-nov-99/6691801652.html The next one is also set back axle- I don't know what that does for you with bridge length. It's 22,000 up front, but only 44,000 rears. It doesn't say 2 speed rears in the ad, but that sure looks like a two speed rear switch on the dash. https://kansascity.craigslist.org/hvd/d/1999-peterbilt-378-heavy-haul/6688864511.html 148,000 is a load. And just so I'm clear, its 4 axle tractor, 3 axle jeep, trailer- with three axles, then a 2 axle stinger on the rear? I only know one guy running two speed rears by me, he's a cross country boat hauler and likes the two speed for the high ratio home empty. The low side for crawling around boat ramps and such with the big houseboats. He's had to spend big $$ fixing them. I'm only grossing around 105,000 with my lowboy. 3 axle truck and 3 axle trailer. But I really wish mine was double frame. I notice it when climbing up and down out of my shop hill that the front end really torque's up when headed out, and it even walks back the other way when headed back down with the jakes on. I'm only 14,000 front and 40,000 rears, 4.11's. I wouldn't want any more on my truck.
Here is the Skagit being unhooked after we arrived in the woods.
I could always add a pony axle behind the drivers too.
How much wheel base do you need on the truck for bridge?
Heck with my 4:89 rears yet to be tested on what I can pull, I should tow around at close to highway speeds with 18k trailer no problem over the mountains with DT466. Truck weighs around 12k.
Don’t. It sucks! I’ve had two that way. Don’t get around very good and get stuck rather easy when the tag axle takes all the weight and the drives get light. Pusher by far the best setup.
Richie Bros. in Nisku gets lots of heavy oilfield trucks. I'd check the auction lists online. Lots of oilfield related businesses are closing or downsizing.
Thanks Dave! Crane Op, I see that the heavy hitter lowbedders around here run the pony axles a lot but I always thought like you said. I know that the log trucks with the double dropsare always getting hung up alot.
I don't know a source anymore but used to see the King County solid waste trucks down at Puget Sound Truck in Pacific. Most of those were heavy spec some years ago but I think they are all air suspension now days. All I've put my hands on were 450 plus HP, 18 speed, heavy rears with Hendrickson suspension and wet kits. The other municipal entity was the City of Seattle water department used to surplus some heavy spec stuff with low miles. All that might be getting traded in on new now days. Just haven't been around trucks much anymore. I kind of appreciate that though.
Just a quick question, but does 52,000 rears mean each rear axle is rated at 52k? Or is that combined?
Combined. It's a tandem rating. I don't know what state would permit 26k on any axle. Illinois will give you 22K if things are just right. Probably more important for off highway use.
So for a rig with planetarys like this, it would be two 35,000 pound axles? https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/27975913/2004-kenworth-t800w
Here's one more, not super close to you, but montana is closer than michigan. Its 20k front, 46 rears, double frame with a aux. looks like a lift axle on it also. https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/27976369/2007-kenworth-t800?ST=montana&CTRY=usa 9' wide- pull the sleeper off? https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/27572121/2010-kenworth-c500?CTRY=USA
Yes you could say each is 35k. Those will never see 70k vertical load on them per their intended use. Planetaries reduce driveline stress dramatically so in heavy work like a push/pull you lessen the chance of popping an axle etc. I ran a set of trucks that were setup similar and even had fuses in the driveline. That’s a lot of truck for the $$.
Interesting brake chambers on those 70K rears.
I don't know what they were doing with this truck, but its only 250,000 miles and they got new engine, clutch, motormounts, new ecm wiring harness, recon transmission. That seems like a lot of work done to a 2015. https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/27292915/2015-kenworth-t800w?CTRY=USA Would have to add the heavy front axle on this one: https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/23851763/2006-kenworth-w900?CTRY=USA
The green 2015 T800 was crashed. It rear-ended another tractor and that's why everything has been replaced. It pushed the engine into the cab and so it has a new cab, front end Etc.
It's not the fact that it would permit 26000 pounds per axle it's the fact that the axle is rated to carry that much so it is much heavier Duty and stronger than a 20000 pound axle which most tractors have common today. For logging use and Heavy Haul applications such as moving yarder around in the woods you want a strong as you can get. Preferably a set of planetaries but they aren't very practicle for much highway use.
Would the suspension rating make a difference or does that not matter to much? Just wondering cause I hear guys talking a lot more about axle ratings than about suspension ratings
Suspension capacity and rating is matched to the axle rating.
Gotcha So basically that truck would have a 70,000 pound suspension
Yes. I have seen some 70k planetaries on 65k Neway Air ride. GVW of the truck would reflect a 65k rear end capacity in that instance.
Yeah the reason I asked is I was looking at some of the big pacific log trucks with Clark 91,000 axles. I THOUGHT it meant each axle was rated at 91k but I wasn’t exactly sure
https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/21833809/2000-kenworth-c500?CTRY=USA https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/2900915/1979-kenworth-c500?CTRY=USA https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/7845141/2006-kenworth-c500?CTRY=USA https://www.auctiontime.com/listing...394.890987222.1538434139-577958416.1535060030
This one would need a set of third members for a lower ratio, but its heavy spec. https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/27320445/2006-kenworth-t800b?CTRY=USA https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/19373387/2013-peterbilt-367?CTRY=USA This one doesn't say it, but it sure looks to me like it has a aux. behind the main trans. Pretty hard to beat walking beam for tough, but it wouldn't ride very nice. https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/7335245/2007-western-star-4900sa?CTRY=USA https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/26336409/2006-western-star-4900sa?CTRY=USA
I had so much fun looking at heavy spec trucks hallback, now I find myself thinking "boy I really need a heavier detach tractor". Thanks, thanks a lot..... Anyways I spotted this one the other day, and it was so pretty I had to post it up. 3406, brakesaver, 58,000 rears and 20k front. Camelback with top loader mack's on 12.00x24's. https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/19412159/1987-mack-superliner-rw713
Here you go crane operator, this one has lots of spaghetti on it. Junkyard will understand. Truck Shop
How about this little beauty? 855 Cummins. I'm guessing it's a Clark power shift trans. https://peoria.craigslist.org/hvo/d/international-harvester-f210/6726785489.html
That is a beast! I'm gonna say the power shift is a probably a 5000 series Allison. Really cool truck for the money.
That Allison would be a 4460. Same as what was used in some scrapers. I had one behind a 335 cummins in a log truck it was iron cased and bullet proof. I traded it in on a truck with 13 speed. Ended up putting in two clutches and three transmissions in that truck in 11 months. Was really disappointed in the old 12513 transmission. Ran the Allison 6 years without any trouble, and it had a retarder.
Forgot about the 4460, been a few years since I've seen one of those. 2001 to be exact.
Don't know if you are still looking but saw this one and thought of you. https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/hvo/d/gig-harbor-2009-kenworth-t800b-heavy/6784738657.html
I saw this one the other day too, and thought of this thread: https://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/hvo/d/oklahoma-city-2001-kenworth-t800-heavy/6780776100.html 2001 kenworth, 18 speed 46 rears and 20k front. 500+ hp n-14, double frame and full lockers. $42,000 Needs a 5th wheel and a air tag.
I saw that one, light drop & single frame IIRC.
Still looking? This is in Ritchie bros sale in sacramento. I know- there's always a reason its at auction, but it may just be the emissions getting them. The sale bill says aux, but it sure looks to me like its 2 speed rears not aux. It looks like room for the 4th axle, but it would be crowded, maybe not enough wheelbase. March 19 sale. https://www.rbauction.com/1999-pete...=11041949&id=ci&auction=sacramento-ca-2019221 1999, pete, 600hp 3406 cat, 18sp. double frame.
That's actually not a bad truck! It is a little short for a drop axle but everything else is right.
I think you could make a drop axle fit, those are awfully big toolboxes on each side. Would the spread drive tandem's help you out on scale or does it not matter? I don't know if you need more wheelbase for bridge law either.
To be able to meet DOT requirements. the minim 9' 6" from center of rear/rear axle to center of tag. 10' works best in most cases
I'm almost sure it will be the emissions getting them. In 2019 there were some real clamp downs on the special extensions and I know of almost zero still running pre-DPF trucks now.
Well, I finally found one. Hopefully it does what I need it to do.
X15, 605/2050, 20918, 4.33's in 46k double lockers on 52k Neway. Full double frame, 22k front, 20k drop.
That should do it!
I'm dropping the exhaust tips down from 28 in to 18 in and I'm putting an inch and a half aluminum tube guard that runs up to the top of the air operated oversize load sign (in lowered position) and Beacon lights so when I am hauling a yarder the guy lines don't tear them off.
I hope so! I saw your guys lowbed in Raymond last Saturday hauling a grader into the Mini Mart parking lot.
That was me moving Lodestones grader for them, his lowbed was broke down.
I wondered if that was you or not. I thought you guys were quite a ways away from home all the way in Raymond. LOL
We work up that way on and off, mostly west of 101 between Raymond and Cosmopolis. And yes when you get up around John's River and the O'Leary it is a ways from home! What kind of bed are you going to pull with that beauty?
I have a 3 axle General, 22 ft well trailer, I still need to get a three axle Jeep 3-axle Jeep and two axle booster though.
Nice find, good luck with it.
Thanks TS! Honestly I was a little leery about the 990 when they first came out until I sat in it and noticed I had legroom even with the steering wheel tilted down. It has everything I wanted except for 52, two speed rears but that was a want not a need.
Nice truck Hallback. So if you are running 52K, I'm assuming that it is the ADZ. The company I was working for when I retired had a whole fleet of KW and Western Star with the ADZ. We ran the Stars at our division. Logging, heavy haul off road. Trucks ran on the logging road when loaded so they were running at MAX GVW. Keep an eye on the V-Rod bushings and bolts. Our trucks eat them and if you didn't notice in time it would pound the crap out of the mounts. Literally days from good to bad. The big bushing at the back will beat it self up pretty quick, keep an eye on the bolt torque. The four 5/8" bolts on the front mounts can break (shear) right off. Its a good system and handles the load, I just think that running on the logging roads with switch backs and such is just a bit more then they were designed for. We ran 15 trucks at our division, tri drives. 7 days a week, 12 hour days so they miled up pretty quick. From new we were good for about a year, now its pretty much at least one a night. Some nights more. And with the tri axles the middle axle mount seemed to be the one that wore out first. We found that we could push a new set of bushings into the V-rod 2 maybe 3 times and then the bore was just over-sized too much. I kept 3 rebuilt ones on the floor at all times and 1 or 2 brand new ones in the warehouse. Fairly easy system to work on, no tapered ends to get stuck.
Need a driver? Lol. Looks like a stout truck. Should do the job well! I LOVE Neway. By far my favorite.
Actually I need two drivers!
Having lived in flyover country my whole life that would be an interesting change of scenery!
You would have plenty to do and lots to see, close to some great charter fishing too!
Yes he would, as a matter of fact my crew is all going out on a charter out of Westport next month!
Lettering & striping done!
Alicia just killed it! She is very talented.
Looks sharp! Vinyl is easy but hand painted sure looks great. When I finally get the A-car done it’ll be all by hand. If not for my kiddos I’d have already moved my stuff into that truck!
Just Right!
Thanks guys!