Sorry to bother everyone with this strange question.... Does anyone know what bellhousing and flywheel size came on a gradall that had a 6v53 in the truck? I am trying convert this engine into a marine engine... I understand that I require a SAE #3 bellhousing and and 11 or 11.5 inch flywheel. Any help will be appreciated.
6v53 This may or may not help and ATCO will probrably add to this Back many years ago, when I was converting truck engines to marine I never really worried about the size of the bellhousing, except when I went to buy the adapter plate for the tranny (usually Velvet Drive) if it was anything else make sure the tranny will fit or you can buy a adapter. You may have to have the flywheel changed or machined to fit the adapter, adapter I have 3 6v53 parts engines, I forgot where you are located, but if you were close I might have parts for you. More than likely you will have to change the governor, not sure what you have. If you run into a problem that deals with marine conversion PM me and I will send you a number to call and this guy has all the answers about 53 & 71 engines. He can tell you what kind of prop to use Make sure you get a tranny that is matched up with the rotation of your engine, some trannys you can turn either way and some not Hope you have good ear plugs, because they are loud. Are you going to use water cool exhaust? If not you cant really close this engine up with hot exhaust Hope some of this helps
Hi. Thank you for the reply. I plan on running hot exhaust. Seems everyone here does. It is going inn an all steel pushboat so not so much of a problem. I have to do more research on the transmission tomorrow. I am in southern ontario so a ways away I am sure. After I look into the transmission I will post again. Thanks so much.
does anyone know what bell housing this 6v53 came with in a gradall lower? Weather is bruatal here so I can't get down there to look
I'm not familiar with marine engine applications and components myself, but doesn't the bell housing question have a lot to do with the type of transmission you're planning on bolting up to it? What about a clutch, do marine applications use a clutch? Beats me, just don't know marine units. Mitch504 might have some insight, and TD25c has done a number of engine swaps using a different engine, he might have some info to pass on to you. Whatever you get figured out, be sure and post it here, would be good info for future referrence for others.
Hello, I believe that most marine transmission bolt up to a SAE #3 housing. I think the clutches are in the transmissions themselves. I havn't yet picked up this engine so I can't check what housing it has. I was curious if anyone here knew off the top of their heads what housing this engine cam e with in a gradall. THanks again.
Well big builder, not knowing how the Gradall was set up for sure, but I'd venture to say it had a typical heavy duty truck transmission bolted to the 6V-53. Most heavy duty trannies used a SAE 1 or SAE 2 housing, SAE 3 is smaller and I don't know that HD trannies would bolt up to it, so just my guess the 6V wouldn't have SAE 3 already on it. Just a guess. Here's a website that has a chart on the different SAE housings, http://www.foleyengines.com/freetechnicalinfo/drdieselshopkinks/saebellhousings.aspx
I have been talking to twin disk transmissions and it look slike there are various models available for 1 2 or 3 depending on the model. It is likely a 2 or 3 so I should be able to find something. If any one is interested I will continue to post my progress.... this is not really something this forum chats about but it will ....maybe I should relocate to another subject.
I am interested in your progress, keep the post coming If I remember Twin Disc only turns in the direction that its set up for, so make sure you get the correct rotation gear. Its not always true, if the engine is RH you need a RH gear I would be interested in what reduction gear you are going to use and what size prop. It kinda sounds like you or someone you know, has a setup like you are trying to fix for yourself Too answer some of the questions, almost all marine trannys since/after about 1950 are hydraulic trannys and its like a one speed automatic tranny, no clutch. The Twin Disc before, 1950, (manual) was a pull in and out of gear no clutch needed, kinda like a manual PTO. I agree that its probably a #1 or #2 housing Again I would find out exactly what size opening the bellhousing has. Can the person that owns it, measure the opening? I dont have much experience with the 6v53, (Detroit, back in the day made 53,71,110, and I think 61 series engines. Detroit made industrial applications and marine applications, the biggest thing was the governor) . but I have put a bunch of the 71 series in boats, of all kinds. I do remember that on 71 series, that trying to use industrial application bellhousings, it tough or impossible. It was just better to change to a marine application bellhousing. I learned the hard way once, I bought a industrial engine and a marine tranny. from different people. I got to checking and wouldnt bolt up together and the engine turned the wrong direction, for the clutch rotation. I ended up spending alot of money to make all this work. I have about 25 years of just marine work and during that time, the people that used any 53 series, did not get good service. You have to turn the engine too hard (RPMs) to get the horsepower and they wouldnt hold up. We always stuck with the 71 series, they just run forever, even worn out. These 71 series are still very popular engines, oil fields, commerical fishing applications. As far as power goes (in a boat/barge) I think the 6v53 was between a 4-71 and a 6-71 If I think of it, I will measure the 6v53 bellhousings I have and see If they are all the same, they were not marine engines, so they may be the same as the one you are looking at Good Luck
One thing I never cared for about the 6V-53, they ain't nothing but noise. I'd much rather listen to a 4-71.
I'm not sure what size that 6/53 would have,but i'm pretty certain Twin Disc makes adaptor plates for its transmissions,i do know detroits can be set up to run either direction,but a twin disc cant.If you did have a non standard rotation engine,a borg warner 73 series,if you can find one,or the borg warner 5000 or 7000 ,cant remember which can run either way.If this was a truck engine the governor is different than a marine engine.Im not a 53 series fan,i'd much rather see a 71 series,much,much easier on the hearing.About the only muffler that works well on a 53 is a Cowl,well worth the money.Around here you can normally find a good used take out for about $1000 with the needed marine goodies.If your handy,an inframe rebuild is about $300 a hole,ive done several.
Hi big builder, sounds like you have an interesting project .And yes them 6-V-53's make some noise LOL.We have two trucks with 6-53's in them.They have the #2 bellhousing in them.Looks like a # 1 but just a shade smaller.Keep us posted on the progress.
Hello everyone. I would have preferred a 6-71 I think but it just wasn't happening. 99% or the diesel engines for sale here are already on the ground and the best assurance you get is the ( running take out line). This particular engine was still in the gradall carrier so I was able to run it and test ...somewhat . Since it was in the carrier only it has low miles ( 40 000). That is not a guarantee by any means. The owner will also remove engine and load into my truck. As well, any other parts that are on the machine that will be useful he said I can have ( if anyone can think of useful parts to take please let me know). Also only 20 minutes down the road. Like many of you I have spent many hours driving around looking at equipment. Hopefully if I am good to it will last awhile. Also I am not married to Twin Disk. I have to start to figure out haw to size the propeller, shaft and the transmission ratio. That seems to be the hardest part..so far.
6v53 What are you trying to do with the boat/barge? Let me know and Ill tell you what we have used, as far as gear reduction, shaft and prop. Im sure a 2" shaft will do anything you need. If you already have the boat, how big of a prop can you turn, diameter? You need to know all these before you start buying things, to put together Example: a application that is used for lugging and some speed-671, 2to 1 reduction, 2" shaft, 28x20 3 blade prop the RPM 2100 8v71, 2to1 reduction, 2" shaft, 28x30 3blade, 28x28 4blade, 2100 rpm I think the 6v53 turn like 2800 rpm's, so these examples I just gave is not for the engine that you are buying Im not familiar with the Gradall unit, but Im thinking its the unit that is run at full throttle during normal operation and under a load all the time. Have you got a source to get another governor, for marine application? This is not a part that you just unbolt and bolt another in its place, it really takes a person that knows these engines, they will run away, if not installed correctly. It could cost you more than the cost of what you are paying for the engine, just to replace the governor. alot of us out there are trying to convince you not to buy this 6v53 engine, its just too much trouble, even if its was free, its not worth it in the long run
Willis, Thank you for the offer of advice. We are pushing a 24 by 60' scow with it . Mostly aggregates for our construction projects. I agree that the 6v53 is not the best choice but I would like to comtinue moving forward with it until it gets really ugly. There seem to be quite a few of these engines still out there running ( not like the 6-71 quantities though.. I think you are right this engine is capable of running 2800 rpms but I don't think I need to run it that high. I can run a little slower int he interests of conservation. THis engine is in the carrier unit of the gradall so it would be set up for variable speed. I am not sure if that is better for this application or not? I have not looked into this yet. To be honest you are the first to mention it. THank you again. I will do some research and see whats available. I have some of my guys building the push boat ( they are welders) so I can make almost any prop work. I think that 28" is the correct size. Thank again for the help.
24'x60' is a pretty sizable boat to push with a 6/53.Load that thing up with aggregates and your pushing alot of tonnage.Speaking from experience running boats,and towing,the more horsepower ,prop size,and reduction,the better your setup will handle.Not saying a 6/53 wont do the job,but handling if your ever have to deal with wind and currents you had better know the setups limits. Pushing something the size you are talking about,i wouldnt even think of putting in less than about 300hp,at least a 3:1 reduction gear,and a 36"or bigger propeller, A turbo 6/71 with moderate injectors runs about 325hp,an 8/71 about 365hp,that 6/53 is going to be screaming at 2800 to make 165hp. There are plenty of good used marine takeouts for cheap $$$ that already have the proper marine govenor ,motor mounts,flywheel housing,expansion tank,water cooled manifolds,etc . I have no idea how much your paying for this 6/53,but you have the possibility of sinking a few grand into ever getting it setup up properly as a marine engine.Here in the USA emmissions laws have contributed to an enormus amount of engine swaps.Id look south of the border for a good engine,a 1 ton truck will carry what you need,and border hassle shouldn't be much of a problem.Try checking this site under commercial boats and equipment, www.unclehenrys.com you might find something much more suited to your project.
Hello, First I would like to say I appreciate everyones comments! I don't takeit personally. I should mention that we run on small freshwater lakes....no current at all. Wind for the most part is minimal. I have noted that online there are many pushboats of this typ alot of which are using 175 hp and under with often 24" propellor. I mean I guess i can always swap for a little more hp next year if I find I need it. I can keep my eye open for a turbo 6v53 maybe Several of my friends run with smaller engines than this....one with a four cylinder detroit in a 21 foot tug. I think this is enough hoursepower for us to start with now. We have been using outboards up till now so this will be a step up for sure. I am getting a little concerned obout all the comments on this engine though. I mentioned all the plus points for it. including hearing it running and working. I have been looking for a good marine engine for over a year resonable locally but I just can find something. We are in the middle of Ontario ....not really a good area for marine diesels. I am confident that I will find a transmission for this engine but I am a little concerned about the govenor situation. I need to find out if I have to replace the one that is on it or not and see what it will cost. Is the 6v53 just a bad engine? It seems that one of it's weaknesses is that it needs to rev so high.
The 6/53 is not a bad engine,but for pushing a barge,it wouldn't be at the top of my list.Its a very noisy engine,needs high revs to make power,it was never as popular as the 71 or 92 series detroits,therefore parts may be harder to find if needed. I think if you can find the governor model,or better yet the build code on the engine,should be right on the valve cover,any detroit dealer should be able to tell you what it is for hp@rpm,injector size,timing,accesories,gov type,bellhousing,etc. The 2 most common gov types if my memory serves me right, are variable speed,used on truck engines,and limiting speed,for marine,there were also hydraulic types too.What are you planing to use foll cooling this setup? Marine models come with an expansion tank and tranny coolers,fuel coolers,etc,or are heat exchange cooler with a raw water pump and heat exchanger.Trying to find any of the needed items can turn into a major headache,and big expense.Last time i checked,a new raw water pump was close to $1000.00,coolers and other stuff even more.You do know what BOAT stands for?????break out another thousand
I happened to be working for an outfit that bought a new machine with an 8/53 in it when they were first introduced back in the '60s or early '70s (Trojan 4000) and the word was then that the 53 series was designed as a boat engine hence the higher RPMs. That may be just hearsay but made sense to me at the time.If it did nothing else but make noise it was a good deal to me .Ron G
I like that comment about b.o.a.t. I have 4 workboats so I that it is true. We are always working on one of them. In the winter we just switch our time and money to our snowmobiles. LOL. I wish I had the engine here to answer all the questions but the OWner is pulling it out when he has a second. I am considering keel cooling this unit. Hopefully that will be resonably simple and without having to find many obscure parts.
I found this online... are these accurate power numbers? Will this engine honestly make 202 hp @ 2500 rpm's. If so it should hav enough power for the job. I noticed that max torque is 445@ 1500 rpms. Is this a more important number than max horsepower? Detroit Diesel 6v-53N Engine - Typical Industrial Specification - With N50 Injectors 6v-53N POWER at sea level RPM 1500 2000 2500 2800 Horse Power SAE 134 175 202 216 Power Kw 100 130 151 161 . . . . . Torque Ft lbs 445 432 410 395 Torque Nm 603 586 556 336 . . . . . Fuel Consumption 22 28 31 34 . . . . . Max Toque Ft lbs 445 @ 1500 RPM Max Torque Nm 603 @ 1500 RPM Physical Characteristics Detroit Diesel 6v-53N Weight 1485 lbs 674 kgs Length 39" 991 mm Width 40" 1016 mm Height 37" 940 mm Compression Ratio 21:1 Displacement 318 Cu Inches 5211 ml Bore 3.875 inches 98.425 mm Stroke 4.50 inches 114.30 mm Torque specifications Detroit Diesel 6v-53N Engine Torques (Non standard) Bolt Size Ft Lbs Nm Accessory pulley nut ¾ NF 125 170 Air box cover 3/8 NC 15 20 Big Ends 3/8 NF 45 61 Cam and Balance-shaft nuts 1 1/8 NF 300 407 Cam follower guide bolts ¼NC 15 20 Crank end bolt 1" NF 290 393 * Cylinder head 5/8 NC 180 244 Flywheel Housing Bolts 3/8 NF 30 41 Fuel Connectors 3/8 NF 25 34 Fuel Line Nuts 3/8 NF 15 20 Governor to flywheel housing 5/16 NC 12 16 Idler gear hub bolts 3/8 NC 40 54 Injector clamp bolts 3/8 NC 25 34 * Mains 9/16 NC 125 170 Rocker arm bracket bolts 7/16 NC 55 75 Sump bolts 5/16 NC 10 14 * Flywheel bolts ½ NF 50 + 90-120 ° 68 + 90-120 ° . . . . * Apply 'Copper-Slip' or equivalent Common Settings Detroit Diesel 6v-53N Set Inches mm Injectors (N45 & N50) 1.460 37.10 Valves (cold) 0.026 0.70 Standard Sizes and useful clearances Detroit Diesel 6v-53N Part Min inches Max inches Limits ins Min mm Max mm Limits mm Con Rod - ID Small End Bush 1.3760 1.3765 . 34.95 34.96 . Con Rod - Length centre to centre 8.7990 8.8010 . 223.49 223.55 . Crankshaft end float 0.0040 0.0160 . 0.10 0.41 . Crankshaft Big end Std Diameter 2.7490 2.7500 . 69.82 69.85 . Crankshaft Mains Std Diameter 3.4990 3.5000 . 88.87 88.90 . Cyl liner - flange below block 0.0465 0.0500 . 1.18 1.27 . Cyl Liner - flange below block variation 0.0000 0.0020 . 0.00 0.05 . Cyl Liner - ID 3.8750 3.8767 . 98.43 98.47 . Piston skirt diameter 3.8699 3.8721 . 98.30 98.35 . Ring gap - compression rings 0.0200 0.0360 0.0600 0.51 0.91 1.52 Ring gap - oil rings 0.0100 0.0250 0.0440 0.25 0.64 1.12 Tune up & useful information 53N Detroit Diesel engines Item Condition Altitude deration 2.5% for every 300 m or 1000 ft Cooling System - engine capacity 3.30 litres Cooling System - radiator capacity 7.10 litres Firing Order 1L-3R-3L-2R-2L-1R (viewed from rear) Oil consumption normal 71 to 203 ml per hour Oil pan capacity average 16 litres Speed full load max Most common at 2500 rpm Speed no load max Most common at 2750 rpm Speed at idle commonly at 680 rpm Operating Conditions 53N series engines Item Condition Compression (sea level) New parts - average 40 bar Compression (sea level) New parts - min 36 bar Fuel Pressure @ 1500 RPM 3 bar Oil Pressure - normal operation 3.5 bar Oil Pressure - idle 0.8 bar Oil Temperature - sump 90-113°C Water Temperature 77-91°C
Capnkel, I found a guy specializing in detroit marine diesel resonable locally. He said he has many of the parts I will need. Can you think of any other items I should grab off the gradall while I am there that I might need? Thank you
Just a quick update the holiday season and all. I went and picked up the 6v53 yesterday. I appreciate everyone's advice on the unit itself and I realize it is not the ideal engine but the price was right and it was just around the corner. Quite a load in my half tonne too! The Owner was very pleasant and included everything associated with the engine. All the cables, wiring, sarter, alternator, remote mount oil filer, the whole dash panel with all guages motor mounts. Big bonus. I am still hoping I can convert this motor for a resonable cost. If not it's perfect for some project since it has basically everything there.... even the air compressor. I am starting the search for the parts to convert now. Which most likely is a different governor, raw water pump and probably flywheel. Once I get somewhere I will post again. On a side note I have spoke to several people about the governor and some say I absolutely have to change and others say just run what on it... any thought here? Thanks again.
From what i can recall about the govenors on the detroits,the two most common differ greatly in how they work,an automotive type will not stay at a constant rpm,pushing into a swell rpms will drop,coasting down the backside rpms will increase,posibly very high,the marine type governor pretty much stays right on the set rpm,reacting very smoothly to load fluctuations.In you case,if you are operating in calm,no current conditions,either MAY work ok for you,but i'd talk to a good detroit mech that has expierience with both types.