I have a 2014 Case 580 Super N with extend a hoe & a hydraulic hammer circuit plumbed to the dipper. It is controlled with a momentary contact thumb button & rate of flow can be selected, Max I think is 35 GPM if I recall. I believe the return line is not pressurized, & runs to the filter, then the tank. Converting to the optional valving Case offered as a factory option involves several thousand dollars & a couple days work for a skilled Case mechanic. It occurs to me a wood splitter valve, basic return to neutral, one direction for extend, the other for retract might work fine. I don't want to climb out of the cab to change directions, so I prefer an electrically controlled valve for that application. I understand some might not offer holding in position? Another concern: Thumb cylinders get a lot of force against them when not activated. I would like port relief so the power of the bucket opposing it won't bend the rod. Is there a valve that'll offer port relief, or do I need a two port relief valve T eed into the cylinder base hose & the return hose? It has been suggested I use a diverter valve to switch from extend a hoe to thumb & use the same control. This gets complicated in the plumbing, & won't provide port relief. Others have said use a stabilizer circuit. Again no port relief, & a lot more plumbing through a bunch of pivoting joints in the backhoe. Help would be appreciated! Willie
I matched the rod diameter and the bore of the new thumb cylinder to the existing bucket cylinder. Neither one can overpower the other. I am guessing that is the result of using a stabilizer valve to power the thumb. The clamping force is quite remarkable the way mine is plumbed. I used a mechanical divertor valve because it made the installation easier, no wires and switch to buy and install. An electrically operated divertor valve does have the advantage that it can be mounted anywhere on the machine. It seems to me that your hammer circuit with the one direction flow is going to require a lot of alteration to be become an easy to use source of oil to operate the thumb. I also wonder if the constant flow of oil from the hammer circuit would could cause a dramatic rise in the oil temperature if port relief valves are used to return the oil back to the tank.
Only flows while I push a button on the right joystick My son says it'll be awkward to push one button to choose direction of travel, the other to supply oil to the valve. I'm also concerned that the valve I choose has to dead head oil in the butt of the cylinder. If it doesn't, it'll not oppose the bucket. I had a 580K had a grapple circuit for the front bucket. By the time I bought it the grapple was missing. I ran hoses from the third function segment of the loader valve under the floor, to the swing tower. It was pretty crowded running up the boom & around the Extend A Hoe. It tended to be problematic. The Case design worked OK for the bucket hoses, but an extra pair long enough for the extended dipper did not work well. They'd wear out pretty fast. First version, I repurposed half a clam from a truck mounted log loader. It took a lot of alteration, & it wasn't perfectly shaped. After ruining one hydraulic cylinder, a nearby hydraulic repair installed a 4 port valve mounted on the side of the cylinder to serve as port relief. Even that didn't save it when a pin broke at the but of the cylinder. Pushed uneven enough to bend the rod again. After that I started over with a whole different design, worked much better. A friend now owns that tractor. It's a bit inconvenient reaching behind you to control the thumb. Shorter stroke, with bigger rod & clevis style pin arrangement worked much better.
I thought about that momentary switch earlier today. Wouldn't a conveniently mounted spst switch on a jumper work ? I understand the concern about deadheading the oil in a cylinder. That is why I favor tapping into stabilizer circuit to supply oil to a divertor valve. It takes care of the relief valve situation. Willie, I remember almost all of your previous posts about the 580K thumb. They helped me decide how to set up my own thumb. I don't think I spent over $500.00 for my entire installation. For the limited amount of time I would be using my thumb, I bought cheap Chinese hoses from a local farm supply store and most of the fittings on-line.
Yeah I remember the extended trauma of the hoses on the last one. I found it beyond impossible to add two hoses through the swing tower, the boom base, the dipper top & the extend a hoe. In this tractor I have all that done in a well thought out manner. I sure want to take advantage of that. I can find no factual information as to how this system works, is it open center or closed. Manuals don't address the subject of adding anything. They take the approach of "Do not alter anything, you may be killed." My trajectory is not going to be as functional as a simple "third function" we usually see, but I hope it'll have fewer bugs than adding a lot of hoses up the backhoe they didn't make room for.
"Do not alter anything, you may be killed." Like Jaguar shop manuals, "Disconnect battery !" is the beginning of anything. Maybe not filling the washer fluid, but anything else. Joe H
You may already have the brochure with the specs that Case put out for the 580SN. There is some info about the hydraulic system in it. I also found the service manual for the electrical system. I have no idea if it is any help or even relates to your machine. The file is too large to upload here. PM me your email address if you want it. Perhaps you already have it.
Thank you. It did open, a bunch of good information. I bought online operator's manual & service manual. I either got cheated, or my computer skills are inadequate, can't get a thing from them. "Various displacement pump" suggests closed center hydraulics, yet valves seem to be a mixed assortment of closed & open center.
What format are those files that you can't get anything out of ? I would be happy to try and get them readable if you want.
I'm afraid I'm not even literate enough to answer your questions. I' I've attached photos of what it looks like when I try to open it. Other pages appear to have the information, but less than an inch square. When I try to expand them they get pixilated, unreadable.
Try right clicking on the file. A menu should appear with multiple choices to open the file. Go down it until you see---> open with----> click on it. Quite a few options will appear. Choose one of the browsers that will appear in the list. It is surprising how many different file formats can be opened with a browser.
My suggestion would be to use the hammer circuit as the pressure supply for a solenoid controlled directional spool valve to create a two way thumb circuit. You will need a spool valve that has a relief built into it. Once you find a place to install the valve, connect the pressure line from the hammer circuit to the P port on the valve, and the return line to the T port on the valve. You will also need a joystick with either two buttons or a rocker switch on it. It can be wired in such a way that pressing each button will activate the hammer circuit and activate one of the solenoids at the same time. So you will only have flow through the valve when you activate a function, no need to worry about whether the machine has open center or closed center hydraulics. Since you can select the flow rate (I assume on the control panel somehow) you will be able to adjust it so the thumb doesn't move too quickly. Hopefully that makes sense.