I took the big plunge today into owning my first piece of heavy equipment. I have a lot of earth moving to do on my 23 acre property I purchased in August and my Kubota L3400 wouldn't cut it. After looking at several crawler loaders I settled on this 955L for the price of $8,000.00 delivered so I think I did alright given that I already did some work with it today. It runs fantastic. Very healthy sounding and no smoke of any color. First question is where would I find the serial number? The seller told me he used the engine serial number to have the dealer determine it was a 13X series machine but I want to verify and record the serial number obviously...plus I know how easy it makes posting questions! I don't see any metal tag on the back of the machine or under the dash. No manuals were provided so I want to make sure I get the right ones. I need to adjust the right brake. The clutches are working properly and the left brake works perfect, but I have to stand on the right brake with full force to get it to do anything. It seems to improve slightly as you run the machine. The pedal also does not return so I plan to take apart the pedal linkage and clean/grease everything. I found a few forum threads explaining the brake adjustment for this machine but I also like to have a manual on hand to follow and compare to. Is it acceptable to shift this machine front forward to reverse without throttling down? One of the curved hydraulic hard lines on the lift or roll cylinder has a pin hole leak where it appears to have been hit with something. Any chance a TIG weld repair would be successful? I have access to a weld shop with all the exotic welding rods you can imagine and a PMI gun to verify what the line is made of, but I just don't know if a weld repair on a hydraulic hard line is a crazy idea. The air cleaner is missing the removable front facing metal cover and the air filter is held in place with some improvised stuff. Are there any sellers of used parts like that or am I stuck going to the dealer? Thanks!
Should be able to find used or aftermarket parts for it. 955L was very popular. Hyd. line could TIG welded but need to be removed and 110% clean. Gas welding or brazing has also been done successfully. If brazing build up about 3 times thicker so it will handle the pressure. A hyd. shop may be able to make a new line for you as well. Line is likely 1010 steel. After clean wouldn't hurt to warm up to make sure no oil residue is hanging around. Lots of discussion on throttle when reversing direction. The manual for my Cat loader states: "Gear and directional shifts at full engine speed are permissible, however, for safety, operator comfort and maximum service life of power train components, decelerating and/or braking is recommended." There's a reason most dozers have decelerators and the loader transmissions are basically the same thing. I think decelerating is a no brainer, why subject components to unnecessary shock loads. Looks like a real decent machine for $8000. Serial number might be stamped on the loader tower but I'm not real familiar where it would be on a 955. Others should be along shortly.
try this:
What part are you referring to as the tower? No tag to be found on the dash or bevel gear case unfortunately.
It should be stamped into the bevel gear case. Something like this:
13X locations appear to be slightly different, especially on the bevel gear case. You may have to chip off layers of paint to find the stamped number on the frame if the plate itself has gone AWOL. Maybe see if you can locate the two holes where the rivets used to be..?
My Cat 931b has the serial number stamped on the plates where the boom pivots from. Wasn't sure if the 955L would have it in the same place.
The tower is the support for the loader arms right in front of the cab. Take a look at the 2nd photo in the attachment I posted before.
My serial number plate is on the loader arm support You can go forward to reverse without throttling down, but do this only with the clutches and not wide open Breaks are adjusted by reaching under the fuel tank from the rear and you'll see 2 rounded metal covers. Remove those covers and under them will be a hex stud. Tighten the hex nut until its snug (not tight), then back off the stud 1.5 turns
what do you mean by “with the clutches”?
Your brake peddel is both a clutch and a brake pedal. Press in first part disengages the clutches. pressing further applies the brake. Will add, I would not be rolling FWD or REV and shift in the other direction unless movement is hardly moving (real slow). It could probably take it if the clutches were eased in but not good practice
Ah, now I understand. Thanks for clarifying.
Decelerating and stopping while changing directions is much easier on the final drives and the undercarriage in general. Make sure to check final drive oil and keep an eye out for leaks or check more frequently when operating in sloppy conditions that make leaks harder to spot. Great older machines that could put out a lot of work.
Well I see where my serial number tag once was on the tower. No evidence of a number stamped in the metal around it. I can remove the paint and check it out. Any chance the serial number is on the back of the bevel gear case behind the bolted on cast weight?
I doubt it, Suggest using paint remover to see if numbers will show up
Yes don't go crazy with a grinder o sander as the stamped in numbers can be a bit faint on some machines. I'd go with some spry paint remover and use a stiff plastic brush to clean the area around the rivet holes. Often the stamped in numbers are above where the tag would be but almost always real close by.
Can you find the engine serial number ?
Post a photo showing where the weight is located.
I am referring to the weight circled in red above the draw bar.
Shouldn't be obscuring anything, but it's hard to tell from the photo because it's taken from almost side-on. Here's the relevant photo in the attachment I posted above (post #6) for 13X Serial Number locations. From experience this is the most likely location to have a Serial Number stamped on the frame. 2nd most likely would be the loader tower.
Ok, once it gets a little warmer I will bust out the wire wheel and see what it finds.
Found the SN 85J10466 on the left side of the bevel gear case under the paint. Can the SN determine year built and what model the engine should be? Of course I got inpatient and already got an operator manual and part catalog for the 13X1 to last built, doh! Luckily I held off on the repair manual. Tomorrow I will grab the engine number.
The range is in 1977, and listed in the link as a 955K but like mine its an L. Mid way in the serial range they started making the L but didn't change the prefix. Shows the same 3304 engine http://www.ironrecord.com/index.php
85J10466 looks to be a mid 1976 955L. 955L starts in 1971 at 85J4672.
Woops I missed it
You have a September 1976 955K. Even though it might be badged as an L the system refers to it as a K. The engine will be a 3304, Arrangement 4N-3974. Engine Serial Number prefix is 78P, the number of your engine should be something higher than 18799. EDIT: See attached.
1976 seems late for an 85J K model considering they were the most common version and ended in 1977. Wonder if Cat perhaps forgot to update their info page? The little book I have shows the L starts at 85J4672 in 1971 and at 71J3411 in 1972. The K and L cross over for 977's are both 1971.
Farmer ,in spite of what the Caterpillar Sexual intellects say 955K 85J turned into 955L's 1n 1976 at about 85J 10129. The 955L 13X came along in 1978 and the engine and power train are about the same as a 955L, both came with a 78P 3304, the hyds are a bit different. Good luck with your project Bob
I pretty well thought from the picture it was an 85j series. Anyhow the good news is after 85j10000 they went to the d6 undercarriage vs the d5 undercarriage. Its all the same parts for a 963 on undercarriage. 963 has one more link in the track and the pads are wider but that can all be dealt with. Damn good machine. I have 85j10889 so our machines are darn near brothers!
As Welder Dave correctly stated the K became the L at s/n 85J4672 running the D330c engine. The 3304 engine came in at 85J6247
Ahhhh, mine is 5044 and has the 3304 motor
Not from the factory...show us a picture of the water pump and or timing cover.
See below......... Machines up to 85J6246 do not list the engine separately, which was the modus operandi when the D330 engine was fitted. A machine and its engine shared the same Serial Number. From 6247 to 9509 the engine is listed separately and is identified as a 3304. From 9510-Up the engine is included with the machine, but is listed as a 3304.
When I first got the machine I had several problems and one being exhaust manifold. Picked up a man from CAT and had to take it back 3 times because it wouldn't fit, parts guy says its a 3304. Have replaced other things and similar issues
If it is a 3304 vehicular engine the timing gear cover and water pump would look like this....
Water pump connections for the 3304 look like this.....
Were the other fit problems related to the head? Aftermarket replacement heads now fit both the D330c and the 3304 where they formerly were not interchangeable.
No it wasn't from the fit on the head, it was how it fit to the turbo It is a mix bag and some of my info came from this thread HeavyEquipmentForums
Here is the one on the intake, but some pics are not there anymore HeavyEquipmentForums
Does look like you have a 3304 head on there but the partial view of the water connection is unclear. Can you give us a picture of the water pump and its head connection?
The water connection is in the same place as in your second pic. Its dark currently, but the bolts seen in post 34 on the top right are holding the fitting which comes from the rad
It's the connection from the water pump to the head that I'm looking for. Also can you show the engine s/n tag?
Don't know where the engine number would be and don't want to take the sides off, but more pics
According to the O&M for the machine, here...........just above and to the right of the oil filter.
Well you made me go and remove the side Eng code 3304PC S/N 4B 13320 Arr No 4N4207
A 4B # is an industrial block so you have a transplant. This is why the experts have such a hard time only having parts books and no actual real life hands on experience . Bob
If that's the case then there should be a record of replacement
Takes a real genius to figure out what the engine is once the s/n is known.
If a dealer did it there would likely be a rebuild tag instead of an 4B tag on it. Bob
It takes a real sexual intellect to tell a man he don't what he owns. Bob
IF 4B means what you say, then sort of figured if the motor was replaced by CAT with a reman, then it would be a remove/replace as a unit. The question is what was in it to begin with. IF (another big if) if was just replaced, what was removed and what was installed? Was it originally a 330 or a 3304? No need to throw darts, its hard enough to get anyone to respond question once a given person shows up. Were all just trying to figure this out and ALL help is appreciated so far as I'm concerned
Funny, I don't see where you identified it before the engine tag was posted.
85J5044 would originally of had the D330c engine.
It clears mine up
Here's what the original D330c would look like....
Welcome to the world of a 955L! It sounds like your machine is close in serial number to mine. I learned a lot going through working on mine to get it going!
Can the operation of the lift and tilt levers be reversed? Pulling back to lower and dump is not working with my brain.
They are supposed to work the other way round. See attachment. It appears as though a previous owner has reversed them. If you could find out which hoses they switched it should simply be a case of switching them back to where they were originally.
That manual shows the tilt being pull back to dump which is how it is so I guess only one is swapped from the original arrangement. I will have to investigate. Can I flip the tilt function hoses from factory configuration or will I cause issues doing that?
Pulling back is the way it should work. Its weird feeling but is correct. When ready to dump both handles are pulled back, this starts raising the buck while the bucket is being dumped. This way the Buckeyes stays it relative position to where it's being dumped
Well I was confused, and my 955L is plumbed correctly for the lift/tilt. It does what is marked on the metal trim around the levers so easy solution to that problem I didnt have. Doh! In the good news department, I now have proper clutching and braking on both sides. When I started adjusting the linkage per the manual I found my right pedals were very stiff and the brake actuator was basically frozen with 1/4” travel. I replaced the needle bearings in all the pedals and greased them generously. After a linkage and brake band adjustment my machine now works as it should so that is a big win! This is probably a stupid question, but I didn’t do the final step in the brake/clutch adjustment which is adjusting the clutch actuator arm rods inside the clutch housing. I ran out of time today. So my question is, should I check them? Do they ever require adjustment. I feel like I know the answer. Next on to fixing the leaking hard line that rubbed through, changing all the filters, cleaning screens, and fixing some broken bucket teeth. I also need to free up the arm that locks the lift arms up in the air for service. It so far refuses to move. Same for the threaded plug that secures it.
Have not found the need to adjust the trans connection. There is a pivot point on top the trans that needs to be greased as well as a pivot arm, both are under the plates covering the trans The lift arm will move but you need the piece that screws into both the holding short arm and the main lift arm. It should be marked on the side of the lift arm
Yup that threaded plug that holds the short safety arm to the lift arm is there in its keeper spot, it is just stuck as stuck can be like the safety arm.
I have found that my safety arm can get bound on occasion and takes some tapping to get moving.
If you haven't found the S/N yet, a trick I found working on my King Midget, when you do find the numbers and if the S/N "stamp" is light or rusted heavily use several drops of clear oil on the numbers instead of rubbing off the rust. The oil will seep in and make the numbers more pronounced. Good Luck
I don’t see one in my parts book, but is there a dip stick I can get for the hydraulic tank? I see the filler strainer has a hole for one like the fuel tank and the level window on the side of the hydraulic tank is fogged on the inside. I went to change the hydraulic filter today and missed that quantity of 2 are needed. Doh. Amazon prime to the rescue. Hydraulic screen strainer was clean though. Transmission strainer just had some small particle crud and magnet looked to have a normal coating of extra fine magnetic sludge. The steering and gear strainer had some thin tan chips or flakes in it, ranging in size from 3/8” down to 1/8”, and they were very brittle. What are those from? Also some small black particles, but overall not much at all.
Post photos if you kept the particles, with something alongside them to give an idea of scale. From your description though they sound like burnt particles from a steering clutch.
My strainer also has a hole and my guess is the oil has to be poured so slow to go thru it they made a hole to fix that problem. There is no dipstick and my widow is the same way and didn't want to get a new one, so I have a stir stick marked. Just insert the stick and visualize where the lowand high would be based on the window, then mark
It’s times like this I miss the neighbor I had at my old place. He ran a body shop at his home and had an extensive junk yard with around 100 cars and truck on hand. I could help myself to anything electrical or mechanical related since he only cared about glass and body parts. I could of grabbed a dip stick from some truck for this purpose. I just ordered dorman universal dip stick 65289 for $8 on amazon so I have a nice flat surface to stamp with my approximation of the levels.
I’m just wondering if that same Part Number of screen may have also been used in an old-school fuel tank with no gauge or sight glass on it. Those tanks used dipsticks to measure the fuel level. That would explain the slot for the dipstick not being used for every application, because in the case of the hydraulic tank it has a sight glass and in theory doesn’t need a dipstick.
I do seem to recall filler tube screens for some hydraulic tanks to have that slot for a dip stick.
I moved dirt for about 3 hours today. I need to fix the U-shift linkage because I really have to bang it side to side. Probably 25% of the time it doesn’t engage forward or reverse when I pull back and I have to move it side to side again. I can see play in all the heims so I will order new ones. I see they are all PN 4D4064 on page 129 of my parts book SEBP1053 but I do not see the end of the rod that travels to the front of the transmission top cover. I am not finding any other transmission control linkage drawings. I also need to see more parts at the front of the transmission top cover because it looks like the bearing in the top cover is shot. The pivoting top of the forward/reverse linkage (I guess it is?) has a lot of wiggle. I am trying to upload a video to share. This is where the rod enters the transmission top, not the pivot point at the back of the transmission for the linkage. I hope fixing up this linkage helps with the main issue I noticed today which is “sometimes” the machine would decrease forward movement while pushing a lot of dirt, like the transmission was slipping. I had normal track spinning and no engine bogging most of the day, then for a little period I was seeing no decreasing track movement with a load in front of me and no engine bogging. At one point the machine barely wanted to move itself. Then it went away and I was back in business. I hope that is related to the shift linkage. Transmission filter and screen were just serviced and fluid level topped off.
Video should be here https://imgur.com/a/t2EtwHJ
Have you tried lubricating and adjusting the transmission control linkage.? You'll probably find that most of the joints & shafts are dry. That will not be in your parts manual. Try the procedure below. TRANSMISSION CONTROL LINKAGE 22. Selector lever. 23. Neutral opening in shift guide. 24. Directional selector cam. 25. Directional control rods. 26. Speed control rod. 27. Speed selector cam. X. Selector lever in NEUTRAL REVERSE position. Y. Selector lever in NEUTRAL FORWARD position. Put selector lever (22) in the NEUTRAL position and speed selector cam (27) in the NEUTRAL (N) position. Make an adjustment to the link in the end of the spool for speed selection so the spool is even with the face of the selector valve body. Move selector lever (22) to all the speed positions to be sure that speed selector cam (27) is in the correct position for each speed. Put directional selector cam (24) in the FORWARD (F) position. Make an adjustment to directional control rods (25) so selector lever (22) is in the NEUTRAL FORWARD position. Put selector lever (22) in the NEUTRAL FORWARD position (Y) and directional selector cam (24) in the FORWARD (F) position. Make an adjustment to the link in the end of the spool for directional selection so the spool is even with the face of the selector valve body. Move selector lever (22) to the NEUTRAL REVERSE position (X). Check to be sure that directional selector cam (24) is in the REVERSE position.
Mine had a froze up pivot point under the panels. Had to remove, disassemble, grease and now it works fine. The part is on the right rear of the transmission where the shift linkage pivots. I have a thread on it being repaired but would need to find it again Yes, just watched your vid, the first pivot is where mine had the issue
Yup, my issue isnt at a linkage pivot point but where the rod enters the transmission.
Oooh, that's not good. Probably needs fixing before you go into the linkage. With that amount of slop you'll never be able to get the linkage adjustments right.
I was planning on looking up the maintenance section on the linkage tomorrow when I can get to the electronic copy of my maintenance manual and I will compare to what you posted Nige!
Can you help me out with the parts drawing that shows the suspect parts? I have my fingers crossed its just a bearing in the top cover.
Try #3 in the illustration below. There are two of them, one on each of the shafts #13 & #23 - listed as a Bearing 9H-3249. Look for 4S-5997 Transmission Gp. It says Pages 122 & 122A, but may be different in your book. While you're in there, I suggest that you replace the breather #9 while you're it it. From memory they are about $10.
Oh boy, looks like that bushing is in the transmission case itself, not the removable top cover. I will have to remove the linkage arm and see what I can do.
I finally got to checking the engine number. Anything interesting? The fuel pump doesn’t look like the one in my maintenance book. There is a lock/unlock screw on top of the filter. What does this do? It was a little bit threaded out from the locked position as I found it. I dont see a hand prime pump. How do I properly go about changing the fuel filter and priming?
The thing on top the filter is the primer pump. Turn CCW and then pull out, start pumping to bleed fuel lines and filter when changing. Push back in and turn CW to lock down
Maybe it's an optical illusion but that lock/unlock knob on pump looks off center, might be broke? That does look like one of the "newer" style pumps the older ones looked a bit different but mounted to the same place. I liked them because they had longer stroke so took less pumping to prime system. If you need to replace it the "Genuine Cat" pump would be a 4N2511 for around $130. and the Cat aftermarket one form the dealer would be a 569-4682 for about $56. both would also need a 1P0436 gasket I'm attaching the instructions off SIS that should be right for your machine, see if they are different than what you have. There are a couple extra pages at the start.
4N3974 Arrangement is what's supposed to be in the tractor based on Serial Number 85J10466 so it looks like the engine is most likely original. Maybe some of the parts on the engine might not be original if they were bought used or aftermarket. If you don't have one already a genuine Cat Parts manual would be a good investment. The publication reference is SEBP1053. Here's one advertised on eBay that covers both your machine and engine Serial Numbers. https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAT-Caterp...Book-85J-catalog-spare-SEBP1053-/201172661017
I do have that manual and that fuel filter arrangement was shown in my maintenance book, just on the next page. Oops! Got the engine oil, both air filters, and the fuel filter changed today. Changed the final drive fluid and started removing the shifter linkage to fix that issue. Also pulled the left dump cylinder hard line that has a pin hole leak from rubbing. I am kicking it into high gear because nice weather is coming!
I got my shift linkage all squared away and I just pushed stumps for like an hour. I shut it off to adjust the shift linkage because neutral wasnt really there, I was in gear when going between forward and reverse. I extended the forward/reverse linkage and turned the crawler back on and it wont move at all. Shut it off and adjusted the shift linkage again back to where it was and still no movement from the tracks in forward or reverse. What gives? No pedals are engaged.
Linkage may be binding or dragging. Try disconnecting linkage at the pivot at rear of trans in neutral. Fire it up and use something to move the pivot F/R. If all goes smooth and no issues then its in the linkage
I tore that pivot point apart and greased it so its clicking into forward/reverse nice but I can try it.
The problem can be anywhere along the linkage path. The first pivot is directly below the lever on left side
I think I might just be low on trans fluid. Maybe that explains why I wasnt getting track spinning all the time. How many gallons low to cause transmission slipping?
Don't know, never wanted to figure that one out
Make sure you're checking the power train fluid level correctly with all systems at operating temperature, engine idling and transmission in neutral. See Page 7 of the attachment.
So linkage was fine, trans is low on fluid, and gear case is quite high on fluid. Whats the cause and solution for this conundrum? I added fluid to the trans and it moves again.
You have a seal between trans and finals that went out
Is there another way the trans fluid can migrate into the bevel gear case other than the seal around the shaft between the two? I was reading something in a thread about fluid leaking at the trans and bevel gear pumps. Ugh, pulling the trans to replace a seal is not a project I have time for. I am also a little suspicious that I might just have a trans fluid leak. I havent had the machine on a hard dry surface to be sure though. Is there any common places for the transmission fluid to leak that is not readily apparent from the operator seat area? Does the transmission fluid travel to the radiator for cooling?
I don't know of another way Bevel gears don't have a pump
the trans fluid travels too the trans cooler connected to the oil cooler if it has one , there are 2 large lines that that start and end at trans my 955 was leaking at the rear most line just 2 bolts and a gasket that go straight up, when your tractor is running look down the floor plate towards the rear follow the 2 large lines and see if its leaking, you have too drop the pan to get to them, my leak was just loose bolts so i changed gasket anyway, also if those lines have been bent or hit in anyway there going too be a bear to get back lined up, you will know when you take bolts out if they bind there going to be a problem, check the flexible couplings too while your there ,there not that much maybe 10 bucks a piece there heavy duty hose clamps
Well I am just going to chock the fluid level issue up to mechanic error. I think when I went to add fluid to the trans I added it to the gear case. I ended up adding fluid to the trans and it hasnt gone anywhere after a few days of pushing over trees and cleaning up brush. Today was the first day I ran it for 2 and a half hours of constant earth moving, mostly full throttle with decel to change direction. At the end if the two hours it smelled toasty and there was light white smoke drifting out after shut down. The trans filter cover is too hot to hold your hand on. Not once did it give me any operating issues though. I got a lot of dirt moved. I just need to get better ar cutting flat and keeping the bucket from digging in randomly. I have one temp gauge that works, and it stayed in the green zone, but I am honestly not sure what it connects to. Ambient Air tempt this evening was 50F. Should I be concerned about the heat indicators and hot trans filter cover? Im not too familiar with whats normal for these machines.
To a point yes, as it is so cool out it is running on the warmer side where I would be getting ALL the temperature gauges at the least functional. Your tractor should have a integral trans oil cooler in the radiator where the outside could be fouled enough to run too hot in hot weather. As you are likely aware these push air out from engine side unless someone has reversed and left the fan blades in Winter pull position. I had my own issue with a fouled radiator where tractor ran hotter than normal but could cool it down between load outs.
Before moving dirt for a few hours today I used an air wand to blow out the rad and oil cooler from both sides. I think it helped. Nothing smelled toasty and it was 60F ambient today, a little warmer. I checked the trans filter housing with an IR temp gun after operating and it was 220F.
Is there any chance a 955H bucket is the same as a 955L bucket? I found a deal on a H model bucket in great shape that would be a nice upgrade for my L.
H is a Different Breed altogether. Measure EVERYTHING and check Pin sizing first.
Yep, it's get your tape measure out time. Someone may know off the top of their head but your quickest option is probably do all the measurements and compare. There is a Special Instruction regarding lift arms which includes 955 models. The problem is that it does not include the H model. According to that document (REHS9596) the lift arm assembly for all the following 955 models is the same 4V-7348 Part Number. The issue is that REHS9596 makes no mention of the 955C (12A) or 955H (60A). The list of 955 models is below. Compare what's on that list to what's on the first one and it seems that the numbers don't stack up 100% - back to "get the tape measure out"............
I have two 955C and a 955E all 12A I'll pull out the tape to give you some numbers.
Dan, if you can get measurements from the bucket end of the arm and compare them with the table below. The measurements below are the ones listed for the 955 models I mentioned in my previous post which includes the OP's 955L.
Sorry, forgot the bore sizes
Thanks Nige Got a late start today and will get the measurements first thing and post them when I get a chance..
Thanks for the info but the bucket deal has fallen through. No further info needed unless you want to post it for posterity. My friend and fellow 955L owner is no longer buying the 955H for parts because the parts he wanted won’t work him (tracks and other stuff).
Sorry guys I had a pain filled day Arthur Idus stopped by and kicked me hard. Went out and discovered right away the 12A bucket control arms were quit different from any other later version it has a dog leg so for posterity I drew up a new set of pictures and took the measurements the best I could and set them up in a table. Sorry Nige but I hurt too bad to transfer the data to digital right now so if you can give me a few days I'll polish it up and check my measurements. in the mean time I took some pictures of the data I retrieved today. ---------- I see an error or two but I cant fix till tomorrow.
As noted the H is a different Breed altogether, relates back to the old Cat Traxcavator design more than to the later series.
My wallpaper has a fair view of all three Cat's showing the Bucket Control Arms From the rear is the 1958, 12A-04040, middle is the 1960, 12A-08263, front is the 1957, 12A-03563 visually they all look the same but at 12A-03806 they had a few minor dimensional differences. Thanks everyone.
Sorry everyone but I'm having a bugger of a time getting back on step. I will recheck my numbers ... when i get caught up on my honey-dos... Again sorry, but she is better looking than most of us, soooooo.. Tomorrow if things go well.
OK, back in the saddle again. Got a few things done and took a closer look at the 12A bucket control arms. The 12A bucket control arms are very close in makeup the few changes are marked on the the manual pages. The primary change was the lever assem. arm (marked X) at 12A-03806 Cat increased the thickness of the lever instead of the two piece layered earlier style. Two more small changes were made in connection with the leaver arm: one was the top pin had a change in pin p/n and second change was the bolt holding the bottom pin went from a through bolt to a threaded locking bolt. Also there was a change to the top pin p/n (marked D4), on the rear of the bucket control arm. Measurements in fractions were made with a tape measure, Measurements in decimals were made with a micrometer. Best I could do whit what I had. I have a short video I'll Post on YouTube in a day or two.
Alright, back to the oil level issue I thought was myself incorrectly adding fluid to the bevel gear case instead of the transmission. After some more hours of seat time, I can confirm with certainty that the transmission fluid is transferring to the bevel gear case. It is doing so at a fairly high rate. Several gallons over a few hours. I have been removing oil from the bevel gear case through the filler tube and adding fresh fluid to the transmission so I can accomplish the work I need to get done. I need to finish a few more projects and then I will have some downtime for a repair. I did some more research and found several other places saying the steering clutch pump can suck oil out of the transmission if the pump seals are bad or the steering clutch oil screen is clogged. Here is one: https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=crawlers&th=53142 Is it worth checking the steering clutch pressure to try and confirm this? It sounds like the steering clutch pump is getting fluid one way or another if the seals are bad. I also read in the service manual that the fluid pressure won't be at maximum condition unless the clutches are new. Given that the steering clutches function without issue, I'm guessing there isn't much value in checking the pressure. I will pull the steering gear oil screen again and clean/inspect it first. How difficult is it to service the steering clutch pump? Any tips and tricks for removal, overhaul, and re-installation? I didn't find anything in the 85J 955L service manual I have about servicing this pump. If it ends up being the pinion seal is leaking between the transmission and bevel gear case (which I have also gotten from several sources is unlikely to fail) then I will just have to live with it and keep playing the oil shuffle game as I am not up to pulling the transmission at this time or in the near future. A few gallons of oil will just be the cost of getting work done. Given the high rate of fluid transfer, that makes me suspect the issue is with the pump rather than the pinion seal.
I started a new thread regarding my last post. Please respond here: HeavyEquipmentForums
Question regarding the fuel shut off on the bottom of the fuel tank. Does turning it in shut the fuel off or turning it out shut the fuel off? I was fiddeling with it today and got turned around. Also, what is the normal operating temperature for the motor?
Screws in to shut OFF (righty tighty)
I think the OEM gauge was just as simple as cold, normal Operating temp and hot. Normal OP is around 180°F to 200°F Under 180° and suit doesn't clear exhaust and stack may build carbon or sweat and 212° is boiling point. Being it is an open system I'd go no more than 15psi (12psi preferred) and nothing over 195°F at sea level.
Does the radiator cap regulate pressure? It sure doesn’t look like a cap with that feature built it.
You might be right there, I haven't seen the cap but both types (open air and low pressure open air) are open systems and the Normal OT would still be around 180°F to 200°F. Closed systems are a little less temperamental and have a reservoir for any overflow when hot and that little extra for when the temp drops or when the temp changes rapidly. The closed system Normal OT should still be close to 180°F to 210°F (extremes temps should only be use in extreme conditions).
Should have a valve assembly (pressure/vacuum relief) in the top tank Caps on older cats were generally just a cap
Here are two views from SIS: In the picture above the pressure cap is to the left of the larger filler cap. In the picture below it is number 15 but hard to see!
Ah, I will have to look for that and confirm it's there. On my old Chevy trucks, I’m used to replacing radiator caps and thermostats every few years to keep the cooling system functioning properly. Should I replace the regulator/thermostat and pressure regulating cap if they're older than dirt and the cooling system is running on the hot side in mild weather? I'm not sure how these components are viewed on equipment. I'm planning some serious downtime for repairs this winter to get this machine whipped into better shape. I'd like to pull the radiator and send it to my local shop for boil out/cleaning as well. Blowing it out with compressed air made a difference but pulling it for inspection and cleaning is ideal. This past weekend I had to prime the machine to start Saturday morning after sitting a few days without use. While operating it seemed to be bogging down easily. I had to prime it again again Sunday afternoon to start after it sat about 24 hours. I installed a fresh fuel filter. It had some mustard colored liquid crud in the bottom of the old filter when I dumped it out. I blew out the fuel line from the tank with compressed air and didn't see anything come out of it. I didn't see any water drain out of the bottom of the tank. The fuel filter had 43 hours of run time since I installed it back in early March.
I would want to know they were good, but also make sure the radiator core is clean inside and out. Here are a couple files that should help:
I think I figured out why my glow plugs don’t work. Checked the resistance of all the plugs and they’re each around 4.5 ohms. Wiring connections look decent. I checked for power from the starter switch when turned to heat and nothing! So a new starter switch is ordered. Now, to figure out why my crawler has started bogging down excessively while running and I have to prime it with the pump above the filter each time I want to use it... Last weekend when this issue appeared I changed the fuel filter and blew air through the fuel line from the filter back to the tank (with the line disconnected from the tank). The issue has persisted after a few hours so I cut apart the filter I removed to find this: Maybe a mix of biomass/algae and rust? So it looks like I need to drain the tank, blow some acetone through the fuel lines, try to spray out the tank with brake cleaner or something, add a water drain to the tank (thanks previous owner for removing that), and fill it with fresh fuel. Any other thoughts/suggestions? I’m also missing a torque converter temp gauge and want to fix that. I haven’t found where the temperature sending unit goes for the gauge. Looking from the seat/rear, does it install on the lower front left of the TC housing? There is a wire running down there that runs up to the gauges and connects to nothing, like someone had an electrical temp gauge installed at one point, if that is the sending unit location. Also, the bottom of the steering pump and trans pump are wet, so there’s one leak found. Now to find where the engine oil is leaking.
One thought for the fuel tank would be something like this stuff: https://powerservice.com/psp_product/bio-kleen-diesel-fuel-biocide/ Anyone else have other suggestions of something they have had success with? As for the temperature sender/sensing bulb for converter the best I can do is a lousy picture from SIS pointing to it. maybe if you have machine to look at it will makes sense to you:
I'll try to match that photo up when I get home later. Thanks! I plan on running biocide as an additive going forward, but I think I need to clean out everything and start fresh.
Yes not being at all familiar with the machine I was not sure if that point in the picture was on the converter housing or maybe on the inlet to the cooler or some place else!
I drained all the fuel out last night and I can see some of the yellow crud in the bottom of the tank through a hole in the baffle. I don't really have a good way to clean out the tank due to the baffles inside. I will just get this resolved with additives and filters I guess. 4 wix filters are on their way from rockauto. Does this machine have anything filtering the fuel, other than the spin on filter? I see in discussions some models had a screen or a bowel, but I haven't come across anything yet. Forgot to check in the parts book last night.
What about using a power washer? There are some companies which will "polish fuel", which keeps circulating fuel thru a few canister filters
My concern with using a pressure washer is not being able to do much, since the tank has so many baffles, I can only see the bottom through a narrow slit 2/3 down and I can only see the right 1/4 of the tank. Spraying water in there won't be hitting much of the tank, so I would be filling it and draining it basically. Doesn't sound like it will be much more productive than just draining the fuel like I did last night, plus there will be a lot more moisture in the tank.
What are these rubber mounts behind the seat for? Cab mounts? Light mounts? They look like original CAT parts.
Found it! It was where I thought, and had to be changed from below. Also found that my belly pans are not welded on as I thought. They just have a bunch of hard facing around the edges. That's a relief. I dropped the transmission pan last night and cleaned out a ton of oil soaked mud to change the sending unit. I'm going to clean up the underside and run it around to try and identify where my leaks are. Are the instructions found in REG00861 the only instructions out there for removing the transmission pump and steering pump? I was hoping for a little more detail, especially any alignment instructions for reassembly to the transmission.
Here are a couple files on the pumps, see if they help. Not thinking there would be any alignment as I believe they a dowed to line them up or ar these not the pumps you are asking about?
Spent the whole day cleaning out the skid plates, frame, and around the power train. I have a few hundred pounds of oil soaked crud to dispose of now. What a task. It looks like the flexible hose joints on the transmission cooler lines may be leaking. Need to run it around to confirm. The hose is 5K4725. Can anyone give me the details on this hose (ID, OD, pressure rating) so I can buy something economical in bulk?
5K-4725 is replaced by 5P-2094 that is sold by Cat by the centimetre & priced @ $0.62/cm. The hose meets the requirement of an SAE100R4 specification hydraulic return hose.
Is this the short pieces of hose between two pipes held in place with hose clamps? If so why not just measure the OD of the pipe to get the ID of the hose and measure the OD of the hoses? Anyhow I believe that hose may be 1 inch ID hose that Cat sells by the centimeter and the Cat number for the bulk hose is 5P2094. OK, Nige was able to come up with all the spec's while I was typing.
You guys are great. At that price I’ll go to Cleveland Brothers and pick some up. I was finding high prices for that PN online, must of been priced per kilometer.
In bulk it's sold in rolls of 750cm (300"), although you can buy "X" cm from the Parts Counter. Based on $0.62/cm the price for a roll would be around $465. I see 5 of those hoses on your machine. All five would probably run you maybe $75 in hose, it might be wise to also replace the hose clamps if you have any doubt at all about them. As you have found you can't see them once the belly guards are back up.
Hey, i have a 955 that i just walked many of your paths on. Most notable was the fuel tank and radiator/torque cooler. For the fuel tank, mine was full of a tar substance. Wound up putting 20 gallons of straight purple power in there and agitating it with a 1 gallon paint stir with many drill extensions on it over the course of many days. This converted the tar to a brown mud substance. Next i let pure gasoline do the work. I made sure the line going to the engine was disconnected frome the tank and run gasoline through the tank letting it sit for days at the time and agitating with a wooden paddle. I would drain out the tank, let the junk settle, then pour the gas back in the tank and go again till i hardly got any junk out per flush. Rinsed gas from tank with several flushes with diesel fuel. Put a filter right at the tank outlet with a clear bowl so i can monitor contaminant build up. Just got the radiator rebuilt and installed. The radiator cost $2,500 and the torque cooler new replacement was $1,150 in Birmingham AL. Now i have to figure out why the machine wont walk straight, every 15' -20' of travel, i have to apply the left brake to keep it going straight. Any ideas? Tracks are within guidelines of tension but one is tighter than the other.
I was thinking about adding a fuel water separator like that. Where did you find that unit?
Is a alignment check in service manuals for the idlers start there The one small thing most miss, do a shoe count L to R, old cheat on old rails was cut a link out when worn severely to take up slack, then think of a full size tire on one side a donut the other, one is turning a faster circle
I do like that filter addition, think I'll put one on mine
Looks like this unit here ($5 off today for Prime Day if you have Amazon Prime): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...title_oth_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1KRLKF0DBKPYQ
I've read in the past (on here) that one track being shorter or looser shouldn't cause a machine not to track straight. Sprockets are the same diameter and should turn at the same speed. Have seen some specialized machines with different length's of tracks on each side.
Should not, does not mean Does not.
I can't remember the thread but I think it was Scrub Puller or tctractors that said a shorter track on one side won't affect tracking on its own. There would have to be something else like a dragging brake or binding on one side to cause it.
Wonder if the clutch release mechanism might be hanging a little?
Ran the machine around to find the leaks and boy did I find one. Fluid pouring out of the front of the torque converter. Amazing what a skid plate full of crud can hide. You can also see a drip from what appears to be the rear main seal (not dealing with that) and my wet flex hoses on the transmission cooler lines I will replace. Looks like I need torque converter input seal 5S4408. I happened to read in another thread that this seal can be replaced by just removing the flexible coupling and shaft between the motor and TC. I also read a sleeve and oversized seal are available if the shaft is scored. Can someone provide PN for those in case I need them? I will also check the input shaft for wobble and replace bearing 5H1901 if needed. Can the front TC cover 8S9058 be removed with just the engine coupling removed? Aside from this find, I now have a working TC temp gauge and engine oil pressure gauge which are reading in the green zone so that is good. Also fired the machine up with the glow plugs for the first time so that was exciting! I rewired most of the machine. Someone really hacked it, bypassing the ammeter, eliminating the circuit breaker, bypassing the pressure switch for the hour meter, and a broken starter switch was the reason the glow plugs weren’t getting power when the switch was turned to heat. The wiring is back to original diagram now with all gauges working. I ordered a replacement fuel primer pump. Fuel leaks out of the plunger tube when pumped up and the handle isn’t turned CW to lock, so that can’t be good. I still have fluid migrating from the transmission to the gear case and I’m debating on pulling the steering pump and trans pump to rebuild/replace. Multiple sources say leakage between the pumps is a common cause of fluid transfer, but the only other cause I could think of would be the steering actuators leaking into the gear case. Is there a way I could observe those operating through an inspection cover to watch for fluid spraying past the seals that actuate the pistons? Edit: wait, don’t these use the fluid from the bevel gear case? So then that leakage wouldn’t matter. Pretty sure the steering pump pulls fluid from the gear case and doesn’t circulate transmission fluid. I know all of that would be for nothing if the leak is the pinion shaft seal, but people have said this is uncommon to fail. Also, given the amount of fluid transfer, my gut tells me pressure/suction has to be involved. I transferred at least 5 gal of oil from the gear case to transmission after 8 or 16 hours of operating. I don’t think either side of the pinion gear shaft seal is pressurized.
Sounds eerily similar to the run I made with my Allis Enjoy putting the machine back in working trim and getting work from it, I did from mine.
I found my filter on Amazon. It leaks between the housing and the clear bowl as a lot of the reviews indicated. I wish i would have went to a local Ford tractor dealer, they were bound to have one similar. Don't be trying to steal my patten on that bracket. Custom fabrication. Lol. Also, i highly recommend the ball valve shut offs for the fuel line and drain. I also installed a brass plug in the drain valve to avoid any accidental openings.
Amazon and ebay have knock offs, so you really don't know what your actually getting. You could replace with about any top I'm guessing. Most all use the same thread and outer diameter. Get a racor and I'm guessing it would fit and have no issues
One caution, Order OIL Rated hose for those lines, all too many go in and buy by the diameter and use Radiator style hard wall hose, NOT THE SAME. Had that problem on old Fat Allis, all of the flex connection hoses were swollen twice their size as someone installed Coolant rated hose, got Oil Rated and all was good again.
Agreed. See post #137 on previous page. The spec is SAE100R4 oil return hose.
My Bad Nige, was thinking he MAY go to a local supplier and just buy by diameter, saw that post and read over it, SORRY!
Back to the question of repair sleeves. I checked and Cat does not list in SIS a repair sleeve and oversize seal that I can find. One option I have used with some success is a Speedi-Sleeve that uses the original size seal: https://www.skf.com/binaries/pub12/...1337_2-EN-SKF-Speedi-Sleeve_tcm_12-128020.pdf Depending on the amount of damage to the original shaft surface some extra work may be needed. Such as filling groove worn in shaft with epoxy before installing sleeve. Note when I use the word "shaft" here it could be any round part with the sleeve going over the O.D. Filling a groove in a round shaft with epoxy can be a problem as with even fast setting epoxy it will tend to flow due to gravity and end up as a drip on the lower side of the shaft. Not good! To get around this on one project I came up with a work around to eliminate the gravity problem. NO! I did not ship it to the International Space Station! What I did was to clean part very good and mount it in the lathe and as soon as I had the coating of epoxy applied turn lathe on to slowest speed and let it run over night. Next morning epoxy was nice and hard and it had a very smooth finish. Then a light few cuts with sharp tool and a touch with a fine file had the shaft looking almost like new. A little red loctite and then install Speedi-sleeve and it was ready to be assembled. One more note, Cat does sell speedi-sleeves or at least did ,but the ones we got from them did not come with the installing cups so they were a bit hard to install although to be fair many times the cups are not deep enough to position where needed on a shaft so it requires a bit of ingenuity to come up with a way to install without damaging them! One reason to not toss out any round hollow scrap!
One more thing while I'm rambling on this morning. This is aimed at Leadfarmer but applies to many people but especially those who have threads like this one that tend to get long. It can be very helpful if you edit your profile to have it include the information on your machine or machines. One very good example is AllDodge who has this at the bottom: CAT 416C 4ZN21998 CAT D3B 27Y03918 CAT 955K/L 85J05044 Eng 4B13320 4N4207 International 1997 4700 Dump 466DT Grove MZ66 Manlift Saves those trying to help from having to scroll through several posts to find the 8J10466 serial number for a 955L If not sure how to do this, just double click on your name over to the left and then double click on "profile page" and then "information" and you can enter it there. In the box that says "signature".
Got the torque converter drive flange out. Has a nice score in it. That won’t be hard to fix now that I see where the sealing diameter is. Getting the old lip seal out is a real pain so far. If I remove the cover plate from the front of the torque converter housing, will the torque converter want to fall out? It would be a lot easier to replace the seal with the plate sitting on my bench.
Loctite has a few shaft repair compounds that will work with a Speedi-sleeve. It depends on how big the gap you have to fill is. http://www.useloctite.com/downloads/187533_loctite_guide_book_updated.pdf
Would not remove the outer cover, unless you really want to wrestle with the converter.
That groove does not look too bad I'm thinking a Speedi-sleeve will work good on it, a little Loctite might now hurt either. The ones I was describing using the epoxy on looked like someone had hit the sealing area with a 4 inch grinder then let it rust a bit for good measure!
I'm thinking speedy sleeve as well
That's what I was afraid of. Guess I will keep working on digging out that old seal. The torque converter shaft is pretty short so I was thinking about rigging up a 3 jaw puller. Luckily for me, I am a project manager at an industrial rotating equipment repair shop. We repair all sizes of steam turbines, centrifugal compressors, gearboxes, and turbo blowers. I have a guy prepping that gouged area for flame spraying using metallizing wire, a repair we commonly use on seal areas on rotating shafts. Then it will be machined back to size, and better than new.
That'll work........... Regarding getting the old seal out, it may have been installed using Loctite so you could try cutting it with a small sharp chisel or even giving it a bit of heat with a blowlamp (provided that area of the machine is clean enough that there is no risk of it catching fire) to destroy the Loctite bond.
Well if that's what you have at your disposal for repairs then my suggestions would amount to "Carrying coals to Newcastle", right Nige?
You're still putting good information out there! I wasn't aware of those speedy sleeves and have added them to my mental tool box. I could see myself using them at home or at work in a situation where the shaft can't be removed or the shaft material doesn't allow the repair I'm using currently.
I repaired some steam turbine and and various other shafts back in the day. I would undercut till the shaft to about .060 undersize. Then use a pointed tool and a very high rate of feed to give a good surface for the flame and powder metal spray to stick to. And like yours it was much better than new. Some shafts were sent out to be chromed and ground back to size.
Done! Here’s a photo of the prep for spray. I’m still fighting to get the old seal out. About to take the torch to it.
That Shaft prep looks good. Yea do it like yours. A rounded point tool so you don't put stress risers into the shaft. Do you have a picture of the seal. I was thinking about my old slide hammer setup. Made a hook out of tool steel then flame harden just the face of the hook. Threaded it onto the slide ( 1/2-13 threads on that slide). Grab onto the seals metal casing (cut the rubber to get at it) and bang your way out. I've enjoyed the use of that tool may times.
Finally got the old lip seal out last weekend and installed the new one. The torque converter drive flange sure has some slop on the input shaft. It wobbles around more than I like until the rubber biscuits are installed. Not much can be done about that. I replaced the flexible hoses on the transmission fluid cooler lines. I also replaced most o-rings and gaskets for piping and plugs on the outside of the transmission to try to eliminate leaks. Last week I went to look at a very nice 955L bucket for sale locally. Although we couldn’t agree on a price (he was firm at $1500) we did shoot the breeze awhile. He is at the age of retiring from dirt moving and had a long career of owning and maintaining 955s. He told me he had the same issue on one machine that I am having, where trans fluid is pretty quickly moving from the trans to bevel gear case. He said the trans pump and steer pump needed a rebuild. That solved the problem for him. So I guess I’m going to pull the pumps and look at them. He said don’t take them to the local cat dealer, they screwed up both pumps on their first attempt.
I have used round tool steel to make a chisel to remove a lip seal like that. Grind a 45 degree angle on the end. Lay the round end on the case and pound on the side of the seal to collapse it in on itself. One place only is the best, but with that splined shaft in the way you might have to use two.
Did you perchance check the alignment of the engine side drive flange vs the converter input flange beofree installing the pucks..? Nothing's going to take pucks out faster than misalignment.
I didn’t since I had no alignment issues prior to doing the seal work. I pulled out the steering pump and trans pump today. Holy hell that third bolt under the trans pump was miserable. Crows foot, a wobble extension, and a sore body tomorrow is all it took. Steering pump looks ok. Bearings are good. I can BARELY catch a finger nail on the housing surface that the gear thrusts against. What do you guys think? New seals and slap it back together? The trans pump is in poor shape. Bearings are shot and the gear was eating up the housing. I’m going to price a replacement pump and see how quickly I can get back in action. I would assume that filling these pumps with some oil prior to installation to prime them is the correct thing to do?
More photos. Last two are the steering pump
Thanks for the pictures! Good to see something caught before real problems. Steering pump looks good to me. I would coat the parts with oil, (or better yet would be an assembly lube) as you but them together. Priming would be good if needed. Is there a way to bleed air out?
They're positive displacement pumps, so I'm not worried about getting air out, just want to make sure that on start up there is a fluid seal around the gears to make sure fluid suction happens quickly. I called my local CAT dealer and they can't see any pumps in stock. They said list price is a little over $1,900 and to call back Monday when they can check stock with the mother ship or something. Based on the price, I think I'm going to have to go aftermarket. I hate to do it, with a pump and one that is not fun to change, but here are my options. Which aftermarket option would you pick? Offroad Equipment - $388 + shipping CGR Ghinassi Made in Italy - $396 delivered Costex Tractor Parts - $438 delivered
Which one has the best warranty?
Offroad Equipment - $388 + $43 shipping - I would have to call to get warranty info, but their website shows it would be shipping from FL so I'm guessing it would be a Costex part. CGR Ghinassi Made in Italy - $396 delivered - 12 month warranty - Also gets here Wednesday If I order today thanks to Amazon Prime! Costex Tractor Parts - $438 delivered - 6 month warranty
PDP will be less apt to air bind as pretty much a Positive Displacement with clearances tight, the wear patterns would allow internal pump bypass and residual pressure/volume losses.
Not much of a warranty Only other shot and this would be a chance with none, but contact CAT used parts to see what they offer. Not being commercial I might just go with offroad because "so far" I have not had any issues with parts from them.
Can anyone provide the torque numbers for each pump's bolts? The ones that hold the pump plates together.
I posted in a caterpillar owner/fanboy facebook group about aftermarket parts, and a lot of people said the CGR and CTP parts are good to go from their experience, including pumps. I ordered the CGR since it was on amazon, has Wednesday delivery, and the better warranty. Fingers crossed! I will take it apart and have a look at it before I slap it in. Make sure it is cleaned then lubricated well. I have some thick lucas oil engine oil additive. Would that make a good assembly oil? One fella chimed in and said that he trims the splines on replacement pumps about 0.010" before putting them in to keep the shaft from riding in the same place and thrusting. Anyone know what he's talking about? I can't quite wrap my head around that one. Edit: he clarified and said the old shaft is probably a little shorter from wear, so the new shaft being longer will be riding in an area with less wear, causing slight thrust on the shaft. That does make some sense.
warranty on new parts from a dealer is either 3 or 6 months depending on the part. EDIT: I need to correct the above. The current warranty on all parts bought from a dealer is 12 mos from the invoice date. (Note that invoice date may not necessarily be the same as installation date)
I'm a little out of my territory, but we had an assembly oil at work that was thicker and maybe slipperier than regular oil. It would later mix with and be washed out by the oil. I'm not sure how fast the pumps flood with oil but what we used would hang in there and seal and lube the pump longer. It would be like an engine assembly lube. Not a grease
Have used anything viscous, including Squeeze Tube lithium grease to pushing Vaseline into one to get the pump to draw and feed oil.
I hate that 4th bolt on the trans pump so much. Changing filters, putting the pedals back in place, adding fluid, and start up tomorrow.
Did you clean & lubricate all the control linkages while you had the floor up.?
Love the pictures LF! Kudos for digging in and getting it done. Nige do you think something like 30W oil with some graphite mixed in would be a good lubricant?
I think for something like control rods with rose joints and the pedal support shafts with needle bearings I would prefer to use a dry film graphite or moly lubricant. That way nothing (hopefully) would stick to it once the aerosol propellant had dried out.
Ya I hit the linkage pivot points with a dry lube spray. I greased the heck out of the pedal pivots when I replaced the needle bearings last winter.
Sounds like a good choice to go with a nonstick lube. Can a person just pull up the floor plates and clean and lube the joints? How often should it be done on a machine that's low use and stored outside?
Not much you can do to clean without disassembly, I would just spray the pivot points and exercise them.
Sounds like a good idea for now. I plan on using a high temp. pressure washer over most things come next summer. Work the machine up to max heat and keep it running. Spray it down then shut it off. Things should dry up pretty quick then. Then rubricate after a couple days. I will try to avoid pushing water through any seals. The plan is to find any substantial leaks and fix them. How did the needle bearing area look? These machines are getting pretty old, maybe no one ever lubed them.
My needle bearings were shot. Pedals barely moved. I got my machine at a fair price because the previous owner thought it had a steering clutch issue. Fixing the pedals and some minor linkage adjustment got it all working perfect.
Cheap fix. Got to love it .....
Love to hear about a about a victory by doing just simple maintenance! Something else on the power washing subject. I know of the 2 vents towards the back of the machine under the seat for the transmission and clutch's. I need to look for any others, and plug them before the power wash. Most any machine that uses oil will have vents or pressure relief valves. The fill caps allot of times will be the relief valve. When you need to keep the oil at the same level in multiple compartments look for vents. Just needle bearings? Ya just got to love it!
On my 955L theres just one vent cap on top of the bevel gear case and one vent cap on top of the transmission. Im waiting for this weekend to fire up the 955L and check that everything works. Should be quite a bit warmer. Plus I had my local car salvage yard ask me to help them repair this roller on their dumpster hauler. That roller bracket was fun to blacksmith back into shape.
Strategic application of heat and an FBH.?
You know it!
Nice work. Fixing things instead of replacing is a lost art.
Just got to love the lost arts. My old employer U.W. Madison started out with their main, now current plant by buying the coal fired Hudson Motors plant and moving it. So old was really old before me. The stuff they built back then usually was well worth fixing instead of replacing. Anyway I figured my 977's were just kind of twins to the 955's. I just took a peek and Ya I have 2 vents just in front of the rear counter weights under the fuel tank. Might be for the final drives. Button caps on top of I think 1/4" stand pipes. L.F. you've got skills, and looks like some trust in the neighborhood . Good place to be in these trying times!
I met the local salvage yard guys who own that truck through a car event called the Gambler 500, where you buy any vehicle for $500 and plan to take it 500 miles on and offroad in a weekend. They hold these free events in many states, and the $500 rule is just a suggestion. Silly themes and paint jobs are encouraged. There's a lot of good videos on youtube showing how creative and wacky the cars are. They saw my fab skills on my squarebody Suburban that I drive for the Gambler and asked me to help them out with some things. I'm quite happy to trade services for salvage yard picking. My dad's a career power plant maintenance man, doing mostly welding work and heavy fab, so I learned a lot from him, on top of growing up in the country, learning to operate and repair equipment. I went to college for mechanical engineering, and took basic and advanced manual machining classes, as well as a semester of welding. Now I have a career as a project manager in the rotating equipment industry at a OEM repair shop where we are manual machining and welding 24/7. I get to come up with the fixes for turbines and other industrial equipment that are pretty old. So for a younger guy at 32 I'm fortunate to have the skills that I do when the majority of my friends don't even change the oil in their car. They think the things I tackle are crazy, but are also happy to bring me a gun that needs some machining/fitting or some welding project. I'm hoping in the next two years, once the budget allows, I can build a proper home machining and fab shop, with a two post auto lift and all the fixins. I have all my welders, milling machine, lathe, tire machine, shop press, and so on crammed in my 2 car garage now and I can't wait to upgrade. I've got lots of shop plans, like setting some steel I-beams in the concrete floor so I can do frame work, etc.
You have a great start. Wish I had a mentor like your Dad. I'm 61 and retired at 55 due to severe Neuropathy and Back problems. 28 years of a state job does make a good pension . Thankfully the Wife's job as manager of Project Engineering for Alliant Energy brings home some good money. I still love life. Just can't do a lot. I'm in the slow process of setting up a shop with an overhead lifting ability of 10 ton with N.S.E.W. movement. 16' tall walls. I bought a large milling machine table that I will embed flush or just above the floor. I’m curious about the I beam’s you are thinking of putting in, what would be their use?.
If you concrete I-beams or some other steel form that won't pull out into your garage floor you can use it as an anchor point for chains and come-a-longs for pulling and holding when you're trying to get something large like a car frame back in shape. You just weld eye bolts to the rail and cut them off as needed. Typically it's laid out as a large square box around a spot you will be working on a car. Right now I have a 79 GS850 Suzuki motorcycle with a bent rear frame and I wish I had something like that. Instead I will be chaining it to my dump truck and pulling on it with a come a long on my backhoe to straighten it as I heat it. Having a large machining table in the floor with T-slots can be used for the same thing, but it would have to be huge! With that you have the added bonus of being able to do precision alignments of large components, but I won't be doing any work like that at home.
It's about 60" x 40" x 10". I bought a Delvieg horizontal boring mill for $2500. A flipping beauty, should have probably walked away "But". I'm going to set the cast iron table in the floor across from it. The plan is to be able to set up a removeable steady rest. I want to make a Quick attach for the 977. Hopefully I live that long. I'm starting to think I have a couple I beams that could use a new home. Setting them in the cement sounds good. Are you making the I beams flush with the floor? If they are, wouldn't you have trouble with popping out the cement underneath?
Yup flush with the floor. Need to use a fair size beam so it wont pull out. I fired my machine up today and pushed out a big stump. Seems like it has more push, quicker response from the transmissoon, and it will actually spin track now, which it didnt like to do before. Yay! A friend asked me to go look at a 955K with him today. It’s a well used machine but it ran strong. I was happy to go and finally get a chance to run another 955. My machine is the only one I’ve operated, and I’ve always wanted to run another for comparison. This one felt even stronger than mine from a transmission perspective, so I still need to check the pressures on mine. I may need to rebuild the valve body or pressure relief valve. Ironically the transmission showed no fluid on the dipstick and the gear case was way overfilled, so I was able to look like an expert and speak to the possible causes of that. There was also no fluid on the engine oil dipstick! When we got there the seller fired it up right away to back it out of a garage so I didnt catch these things till after the test drive. Also had a chuckle at all the wrenches and stuff I could see laying down in the pan under the transmission, including a nice new android phone! Apparently someone dropped that down there yesterday. They were planning on dropping the pan later today to get it since fishing for it wasnt working. Can anyone look up what year 85J3126 was made?
1970 with D330T motor
Weather was a little tolerable yesterday so I worked on changing the thermostat. Have to run to the dealer and pick up the upper flange gasket for the radiator to pipe connection. I always seem to overlook a gasket or o-ring when I order parts! I'm thinking about tackling the hydraulic cylinder seals on the one tilt cylinder and two lift cylinders that are leaking. The one tilt cylinder was re-sealed by the previous owner. I have a lot of time before the ground is dry again and I can get back to work, and I figure this will help with resale value. I have played with small hydraulic cylinders but nothing this big. My understanding is that I drain fluid from both ends of the cylinder by disconnecting the two lines to the cylinder, remove the pin from the rod end, then ubolt the cylinder end flange and pull it and the rod out of the cylinder body. Then I have to remove a large nut from the end of the rod, and I can pull everything off, change seals, and re-install. I shouldn't have to completely remove the cylinder from the machine, right? I have a cylinder hone and have done that before, if I see any light linear scoring. When everything goes back together do I need to worry about purging air? My understanding is these hydraulic systems are self purging and I just need some oil or grease in there for initial lubrication. I have my Kubota tractor on hand for heavy lifting if needed. With the bucket flat on the ground I'm not worried about anything moving when I disassemble the single tilt cylinder. The lift cylinders will be more dangerous and I will use a lot of blocking to make sure the bucket can't move on me when I work on those one at a time. Any other tips and trips? Does Cat sell a seal kit for the cylinder or do I buy the seals individually?
There should be a seal kit, but to get the part number with certainty does the barrel of the cylinder have a spot-welded metal tag on it stamped with a Part Number.?
Yes also be good to know if it have a Cng number also!
I haven't noticed any tags on the cylinders but I will check after work today.
Cylinders are easy enough to reseal, only non-easy part is the weight. Got my seals from off-road parts after determining the correct CAT part number Used my machine serial number to find
Assemble it with hydraulic oil and it will be fine. When you install the piston/head/rod assembly set it at about half stroke. Then when you first start the machine move the cylinder only a couple of inches in each direction and bring it back to centre with the engine at low idle. Slowly increase the travel of the cylinder until after about 10 cycles it is moving full stroke in both directions. That should get the air out. Have someone keep an eye on the hydraulic tank oil level while you are doing it. Piston seals install easier if they are first soaked in boling water for a few minutes to soften them. Head seals are similar. Make sure that you install both the piston & the head seals the correct way round..! Don't assume that the way the old seal came out is the correct orientation to install the new one - especially considering the previous owner allegedly resealed the cylinder and it's now leaking again in short order........... If in doubt ask.
I'll post pictures when I get it apart and yinz can confirm if they are correct. Should the cap be off of the hydraulic tank during that start-up process? I wasn't sure if the cap was vented or not. To clarify, the one tilt cylinder the previous owner resealed is holding strong and not leaking (knock on wood). I'm going to go after the other tilt cylinder.
The tank should vent but I had the cap off mine when bleeding because its going to need more fluid when bleeding. I didn't drain much fluid after disconnecting both lines, and only did empty out by pulling the rod. It got messy quick even with a bucket to catch the fluid
I have a handful of drain pans I will deploy for this work. Maybe even the old kiddie pool I saved from the neighbor's trash in case I needed to drain the gear case.
Bear in mind the piston nut on the tilt cyl. is torqued to 1200 FT.LBS . and I believe the piston is a taper fit. Are the pins tapped so they can be pulled ? Good luck Bob
Yes, I can bring the rods to work and have the big tools to loosen the nuts. My pins look like they will just fall out. They have a bit of free play from wear.
Bob's right. You're going to need fairly major tooling to remove the tilt cylinder rod nut and then to get the piston off. I know you're not planning to do it by the book but this may give you some ideas.
I did that job recently and i suggest that you lay the bucket flat on the ground, remove the Rod pin, start the machine and retract the piston all the way in the cylinder. Then remove hydraulic lines, unscrew the four bolts, drain oil and remove piston. That way you wont have any oil behind the piston that will splash out when you remove it. Hope that makes sence
Great tip! Thanks!
On the tilt cylinder see a cast number on the head that holds the outer rod seal of 6J8738 I think. Also looks to have a casting of “MUNRKA” but its hard to read. I dont see any tags attached to the cylinder.
I think your "6J8738" is actually 6J9739. Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish 8s and 9s on something cast, especially if the numbers aren't that big. "MUNRKA" is the Date Code for when it was manufactured - 21/05/76. I reckon it is likely that your tilt cylinder is a 7J-9638 Group. Attached the Parts breakdown listed for your machine that shows Change Levels 0-4. For that cylinder the Seal kit is a 243-0384. However - and this is a reason I think you it might pay you to disassemble the cylinder before ordering parts - from Change 5 upwards on the 7J-9638 Cylinder the seal kit Part Number changes to a 242-2542. The difference between the two kits is the wear ring on the piston. 4J-4630 in the earlier cylinder and 4J-3420 on the later one. So if that cylinder of yours has ever had a piston change to the later part number (the piston part number changes as well) then a seal kit to fit an early cylinder is going to be incorrect.
Sounds like I will pull it apart and check the piston number before ordering parts. Thanks for the awesome info. I have spent a lot of time on jeep, chevy, gun, atv, etc. forums, and I think some of the best technical responses I have seen are on this forum.
After having slept on it, here's an idea......... Buy one of the kits plus the wear ring for the other piston option separately. That way when you pull the cylinder down you'll have the piston wear rings for whichever one it has in it. According to the prices in Cat Parts Store it appears as though it doesn't make much difference what combination you pick. 243-0384 Kit - $134.36 + 4J-3420 Wear Ring - $36.60 242-2542 Kit - $141.84 + 4J-4630 Wear Ring - $27.57 You don't have to buy parts from Cat. Offroad Equipment in Alcoa TN, could possibly do you keener prices.
After reading through this project and gleaning info, I want to say “Thanks”. Nige, with specs and procedures at hand, deserves more than a “thank you”. As my grandfather used to say on occasion, “I thank you ‘till you’re better paid.” To all that take the time to share information, experience, and advice related to keeping these seasoned machines going, you are appreciated! I see many chime in, get info, and bail. Never a conclusion, thanks, or acknowledgement to those that took the time providing the valuable help (leadfarmer, this isn’t directed at you by any means). It surely isn’t the cost of council that prevents a deserving thanks. I get it, everyone’s busy with a never ending list of projects, jobs, or honey do's, but recognizing the help along the way is underperformed. We live in interesting times and technology has its pros and cons. This site and its contributors are etched in the “pro” data column in my book. Thanks again- AV
I sure like say thanks and to close the loop on problems for future readers. I hate when I find a thread with relevant info to my issues and there is no resolution from the original poster. I finished changing the thermostat in my 955L and I mounted a tool box under the bed of my dump truck, but still haven't taken time to tackle the tilt cylinder due to the weather being either too nice to turn wrenches (burned a lot of brush lately) or too unappealing to venture outside (trim work inside the house has progressed slowly). I have two weeks to work from home starting next week and I plan on tackling the cylinder then.
It’s me again! Between weather and home renovation projects I haven’t been working on the crawler but tonight I pulled the cylinder apart. The wide end seal is marked 4J4630. 243-0384 is the kit I need, right?
Yes indeedy. Breakdown of kit as shown below. Kit Part Number is still good, i.e. it has not been replaced with a newer P/N.
Thanks! Some pictures of the cylinder. And the 40x60x12 the Amish are building right now for the girlfriend’s horses.
Thanks for posting pictures!
Ruh roh. Kit came with a wear ring 8T5668 that I have no use for and I need another 9X7264 unless the current norm is to assemble the cylinder with only one? This seal is called out as 5J5020 on group 7J9638.
Since you have 2 groves and your not having the cylinders honed. For sure put the second one in unless there's a real good reason not to. You might of just gotten a shorted kit.
The kit has a list of parts and it is accurate, only one provided. Odd! Guess I won’t be getting this done till Monday or Tuesday.
I think I know why............. from Change 00 to Change 04 of the 7J-9638 cylinder assembly, two 5J-5020 seals were used on a 5J-6202 piston. From Change 05 onwards, the piston changed to 3G-3263 and only one 5J-5020 seal was used. See illustrations below. I guess you could go with one piston seal if you want to - let's face it the later design of cylinders did. Whether you do or not is up to you.
I think that two would keep the piston supported better. Also would help stop fluid from going from high pressure side to low psi side.
Isn't support of the piston the function of the wear ring..? The piston seal should have nothing to do with it.
You are right. When I heard piston seal I was thinking like car piston ring. If this item is #12 or for the grove next to it and I wasn't in a hurry I would add it. Rock on Nige! You are great to have on this forum!
Thanks for the info! I’m not in a rush so I will get the other seal and put it in. Can’t hurt. When installing the outer double lip wiper seal into the head is there a common alternative to 7M7456 bearing mount compound that I can use? Like green loctite?
I think I would go with Red Loctite, isn't the green the thin stuff that is suppose to "wick" in after you tighten a bolt and nut. It works it's way down the thread and with a press fit like that seal there won't be any room for it to wick in through.
deleted duplicate post, got to stop posting before I get that first cup of coffee in the brain!
The official equivalent of 7M-7456 is Loctite 609 Retaining Compound.
Yes thats the green I was referring to, the 609. I forgot there was more than one green loctite product.
If you Google “Caterpillar Loctite equivalents” there should be a pdf of all the crossovers. Cat got out of the sealants & adhesives market a few years ago.
I got it back together two weekends ago. The outer seal at the rod is staying "wet" but I no longer have a excessively dripping leak, so I will call that good enough. Maybe it will be perfectly dry on the next one I do! Maybe the seals need to break in? Now I just need to get my skid plates and belly pan back on and if I have the time put some teeth on my ugly bucket shanks. Is there a reason not to use a grade 8 bolt to retain the tooth instead of the special pin? The previous owner retained the teeth on the worn out shanks by welding the tooth to the shank and welding both ends of a rod he put through the tooth and shank. The welds were not very good and I knocked off half the teeth quickly. I am confident I can do a better welding job to help hold the teeth on, and I would think a grade 8 bolt would hold those teeth on.
You may need to do some weld buildup on the top & bottom of the adapters. The teeth should only have about 1/2” of vertical up & down movement at the point end when the pin is installed if the adapters are not worn. A better way to secure the teeth is to use the OEM design of pin & spring lock with a thick washer welded on each end of the pin for a bit of extra security. The teeth need to be able to move a little bit with respect to the adapters in order to prevent excessive loads that might cause adapter breakage.
Ok, I was just hoping to get away with putting teeth back on and not giving any more money to the CAT man!
Agree, the pins just keep the teeth on, they should not be under much load when digging
Agreed. The only function the pins serve is so that the teeth don't fall off when you dump the bucket.
Better to build up the shanks and get the teeth to fit better than welding the teeth on. On excavators when they lose a tooth and have to use a bolt for a retainer, they use grade 5 bolts because they will bend. Grade 8 will snap and you'll lose the tooth again.
True, I'm always torn between using Grade 8 and Grade 5. Too much thinking.
What about using over the counter Cat bolts?
Cat are grade 8 plus.
Well, new problem. My shanks have no stepped holes for the spring clip for the right pins to be used. Other than bolt, what can I do to attach the tooth? Tomorrow night’s project will be building them up with weld.
It looks to me like those teeth use the pins with steel on both sides with rubber in between to create the tension. Something like this.... https://romacparts.com/tf23p-pins/
TBH those shanks are fcuked and you would probably find it cheaper to replace them than you would to spend hours of your time and boxes of electrodes in an attempt to build them up so that the teeth stay on. To give you an idea the "point" on the end of the adapters in your photos should actually be a square end about 1.5-2.0" tall from memory. That's how much meat you've lost from them. If you do build them up you could simply put a pin through them and weld a washer on each end as suggested ealrier.
It really looks like its meant to use that fangg pin or similar. More pics. Shanks are dished top and bottom. Holes seems intentionally oval, and is smooth through it with no tight area in it to pinch a pin or anything. One friend said they look like komatsu shanks.
Some of the shanks don't seem to be too worn, I just think it is a miss-match of the shank and tooth. The outside shanks are definitely worn the worst. I'm going to weld blocks on the shanks to cheat and take up the slop faster than building them up with weld, then use bolts with washers welded on the ends.
This machine as I recall is pretty low use? The used teeth laying in the bucket don't look too bad. I've seen some pictures of buckets where the guy must've taken the outer teeth and put them to the inside. Then staged the teeth. Put the most wear to the inside working outward to the corners. Maybe a new one on the outside corner. I think it would work well for pushing over trees or getting a corner under cement or stone. Nige was right on getting excessive movement out of the teeth. The idea of using a pin and extra thick sae washers may workout well. If you use the shank of a bolt don't leave ant threads on it. Those thread notches are what is called a stress riser an after banging around awhile they can crack at the thread. The teeth get their power when pushed back into the abutment of the shank. You want the teeth to hang pretty much in a straight line. When you push up (Nige) about ½” of play. Best of Luck
Just make sure that the teeth have a bit of up-and-down "waggle" after you finish building up the adapters. You should not have to beat the teeth into position to get the pins in.
Done. Alright let’s see how long these last! I didn’t use washers, I just welded the ends of the bolt to the tooth. Figured that was stronger than welding washers on. If this doesn’t work out I will be looking at different shanks and probably teeth anyways. I picked up this L-TEC Heliarc 250HF welder over the weekend when I happened upon it for sale on FB marketplace. $400 got me a pretty nice welder! It stick welds better than my Lincoln Idealarc 250, it’s easier to adjust, and it came with a pedal for TIG. Plus high frequency for aluminum. Much improvement over thr scratch starting that I’ve been doing with my Lincoln. I had never heard of L-TEC but some google research only came up with good reviews and I have to agree, it’s a solid machine.
Hey looks good. The dirt will polish up those welds real nice! $400 with high frec. start and noo scratching!
Exactly why I didn't feel the need to clean up those welds, aside from cutting off the excess bolt length!
Damm fine Job! I just got to ask one Dumb Question when you push the teeth in, it hits the back of the shank not the back of the pin hole. Right.
The shank is supporting the tooth, not the bolt/pin.
Did some serious stump excavating and the teeth are still hanging on for dear life! Getting my tree lines looking nice like they did decades ago.
The New Teeth must have been begging for their First Bite! Looks good, you graded it out Sweet!
Well I still can’t finish grade worth a damn with the 955L but I’m getting better. For finishing I use my Kubota L3400 with a 6’ box scraper on the back. Using that to smooth out the dirt is like cheating.
I Gotta get me one of those Things!!!! My neighbor just bought one. After seeing him doing his driveway with one, and now you too! I Gotta Gotta get me one of those Things!!!!
Another season of playing operator is wrapping up. I found that the 955L trans and engine temp stay lower if I never throttle down while operating. I always come to a complete stop when changing directions, but I always stay throttled up. Is this the right way I should be running the 955L? Previously I was throttling up and down all the time as I changed directions. Which meant I was also pushing or digging at lower rpms at times as I was working the throttle and moving, etc. I also found that some of my sprocket segment nuts on both were working loose. What do these get torqued to? I wasn't able to find the number in any documents I have. Thanks!
Agree keep throttle up From Nige on my 955 track replacment, post 75 HeavyEquipmentForums
Cat transmissions can be full throttle when changing direction but decelerating will extend transmission life. My 931B has the throttle on the shift lever. Some don't like it but once you get used to it, doesn't slow your production at all. There's a reason big dozers have a decelerate paddle.
Well it’s that time of year again when I’m trying to work like mad and something goes wrong. Last night I ran the 955L out of fuel. Oops. Tank was bone dry. Today I tossed in 25 gal and changed the fuel filter. Filter was full of fuel which I thought was odd. I bled the system as usual. Ran the machine 10 minutes and it started bogging down like it was running out of fuel. Fuel pressure gauge was reading good. Idled down and it sounded like it wasnt firing on one cylinder at idle. Stop engine and bleed air again. Lot of air comes out of the pump before fuel. Close bleeder and hand pump never gets really really hard, just a little more firm. Fire up the machine and it runs great for about 10 minutes moving dirt before it starts to bog down and rough idle again. I repeated this cycle 5 or 6 times of operating, bogging down, bleeding air, etc. Where is all this air coming from? I made sure the new filter is tight and the old gasket didnt stick on the housing. Grrrrrr
You likely have a partial plugged fuel line that comes out of the tank. Take the line off at the screen and see how much fuel runs out. Bob
Changed the filter after work today. I cut them both open. The filter that was on a year was obviously dirtier, but they BOTH seemed to have about the same pile of junk in the bottom of the filter. That’s interesting. Im not aware of any other screens or filters. Am I mistaken? I unhooked the line on the bottom of the tank. When I open the valve at the bottom of the tank the fuel flows out freely. I used compressed air to blow out the line from the tank to the filter, with the filter removed. I reconnected that line and when I turned open the valve fuel at the tank the fuel was flowing freely out of the filter housing. And it still acts like its running low on fuel after some minutes of normal operating, and then I have to prime the system again. Im just not sure if the air I hear at the end of the bleeder tube is pressure or vaccum when I first open that bleeder valve. anyways, what next? i guess I will blow put that short metal line from the filter to the pump.
When it acts as though it’s starving for fuel have you tried cracking the tank cap.? Does it appear as though there is a vacuum in the tank at that point.?
Yep you could have a plugged vents in the cap or the filter in cap might be caked with dirt. I see in post #133 that you have the locking type cap so here is what it looks like: #2 is the filter, not sure but think it is foam and if still in one piece might be it just need cleaning. The red arrows point to the vent holes that also might be plugged.
Maybe lift pump has failed
I think I have a full set of shanks for that machine if you care to drive to staten island, maybe even the cat bolts to attach to bucket.
I didnt get a chance to work on it this weekend. Hopefully this evening I will. If the lift pump died, how could I tell? The fuel pressure gauge is working, and even when I’m running out of fuel it says I still have good pressure which is odd.
Try the easy stuff first. Look at the fuel cap.
You might not notice a weak lift pump with a full fuel tank, but when the level drops below the height of the main injection pump (head pressure) the machine will crap out. You will then try pumping the primer, refill the filter and it will run a bit and crap out again. That is one way to tell.
Yep may be cheap and lazy but I always checked the free stuff and the easy stuff first!
I don't know which fuel system you're loader has but a few years ago I had a 955L 13x and it was acting like yours and it ended up needing the injector pump rebuilt. I have a guy down home that's retired from CAT and he was the fuel pump man for years and he is still doing them at home and does it VERY reasonable compared to the dealership. The rebuild fixed mine.
What caused your IP to start acting up? Could you send me the guys phone number so I could pick his brain? Tonight’s summary: Checked the fuel tank cap, vent hole was clear, filter material long gone. Disconnected the line front the tank to the filter and blew air through it again. Removed filter again, fuel looked good in it and it was full. Blew air through both sides of filter housing. Removed line from filter to injection pump and blew air through it and cleaned it. Confirmed good fuel flow to filter. When I put the filter on I had to use the hand priming pump to get fuel to keep flowing through the filter housing outlet, otherwise it wouldn’t naturally flow through. Not even a drip. But with the oulet line removed each pump of the hand primer gave a good blast. Any concern there with it not flowing through the filter housing once the filter was primed? So after all that it is still doing the same thing. I would run it a few minutes and it would bog down. I did remove the fuel cap just to check if that was it. The fuel pressure gauge never drops except when I throttle down to very low idle or shut it off. when I go to reprime the system after a short shut down I get air pressure, and then the fuel at first looks foamy with small bubbles until it clears. when it bogged down I idled down and the idle sounded rough. It sounds good when I rev up but something just sounds off in the idle. I will try to post some video but I know engine sounds never sound the same in phone videos. But anyways, after I let it idle awhile it starts to sound good and then I can run it hard for a few minutes again, then it starts bogging, like I gave the fuel system a chance to catch up. Maybe I’m a goober, but do I need to bleed at the injectors? With it running so good for the 10 or so minutes after re-priming I figured that doesnt need done. All this seemingly because I let it run out of fuel once!!! Gah!!! Could something be going on with a pressure relief valve?
I'm shotgunning some suggestions here because I am not familiar with your specific engine/fuel line/filter injection pump layout, other than what I could see on photos on this thread. Have you checked that there is fuel pressure from the filter to the injection pump when it is running strong? I'm kind of wondering if the fuel pressure gauge is wonky. If you crack the fuel supply fitting where the line enters the injection pump you may be getting air or a mixture of air and fuel rather than all fuel. If you are getting lots of fuel when running strong, try the same test when it is crapping out. Also--this is a long shot...are you screwing down the manual fuel pump handle after pumping? It seems to me that the manual pump piston must not move when things are running or prime disappears. No fuel running out of the line to the injector pump with the motor off sounds a bit suspect, too...although the ups and downs of the line may be causing this. Maybe try putting a little compressed air on the tank vent to see if you can convince the fuel to move all the way through? Does fuel run by gravity to the fuel pump? I found that out the hard way on my stone age 2U D8 because the pump was worn enough that it would not pick up the prime from the tank until there was enough fuel in the tank to push thru to the fuel pump. That was with a flat out worn fuel pump. Wouldn't suck when going dry on the inlet but worked like a champ when flooded with fuel. YMMV! Jon.
Thinking a bit on what Brock said and a bit on me, with a cavoite (I don't know much on these things). If a lift pump lives inside the injector pump assy. and its weak and the manual pump is upstream and maybe with air leaking in, it can leak air in and make things worse. Fix its packing and any other air leaks. If a small lift pump needs help park it going down hill with a full tank, and a good tank shut off valve so no worries. This should cause full flow though filter at stand still with no help. Best of Luck LF
Also the manual pump is newish. Replaced it November of 2020.
I have not talked with this fellow in about 5 years,he was in his 80's then and that was before covid. I will try to find out if he is still above ground next time I go to Ga. I moved about years ago to Tn.
By the sound of things you have a failed injector capsule, to test this point start the engine up and run it at low idle and undo each injector fuel line at the pump, look for a line that blows bubbly fuel out and makes the most fuss. tctractors. p.s. to bleed the engine easy undo the injector lines up on the head and pump the hand primer with the hand throttle in the stop position.
So based on this test you first describe, with the machine at low idle, loosen the injector steel line one at a time on too of the injector, and look for bubbly fuel, right? And this would indicate something bad inside the injection pump? regarding a lift pump, I’m not seeing one on the attached parts diagram of my pump. Theres multiple shown in the parts manual and this one looks to physically match what I have the closest, based on the shape of the fuel ratio control. So is there a lift pump on this machine? Or just gravity to the IP? I will do that test above, and if I see air in all the lines, then I’m back to chasing and air leak leading to the punp, and it seems the hand primer would be the most likely suspect.
That is the same type IP my 13x had and it was doing the same thing you described and it ran great after I had the IP rebuilt,just saying.
I wonder what the cat shop charges for that? Hmmm. Should I also have injectors cleaned/tested or anything if I have the pump off?
No lift pump? Should be somewhere.....I dug out my service manual for a D4D (83J series)--It has a section in it for the 3304 engine and it looks like the fuel transfer pump is located in the front of the injector pump where the injector pump bolts to the engine block...and the lines to this pump are internal passages inside the injector pump itself. I'm thinking the same thing a you- the air is getting in somewhere upstream of the injection pump on the "suction" side of the fuel inlet to the transfer pump. Take a look at your manual pump for leaks, or. better yet, isolate the manual pump and filter, then put compressed air on it to see what happens. I noticed that there is a little drain valve at the top of the injector pump body--have you tried opening that when the engine is running to see what you get out of it? Foamy fuel there will suggest the lift pump is getting air mixed in the fuel. Or the lift pump is getting worn. A way to test the lift pump itself would be to get a small tank, bypass your filter, and put diesel directly to the injection pump with the small tank BELOW the injector . If the machine will run properly, then the fuel transfer pump is good (by proving it can suck diesel from below). The problem is then between the injection pump and the inlet side of the filter. (if you try this be sure to be squeaky clean!!!!! You don't want to get dirt into the injectors!) I wouldn't chase a Cat dealer yet because you don't know for SURE that the problem is inside the injector pump. The poster who said his problem went away with a pump rebuild may have had a bad fuel transfer pump inside the injection pump which got automatically rebuilt with the injection pump.... You still aren't 100% sure of where the problem is. Want to spend 2 grand on rebuilding the pump to find you still have the problem? Also, once you remove the injector pump, you have a new headache of re-timing the pump when you go to bolt it back up. YMMV--but good luck with the troubleshooting. Jon.
If you read what tct said a bit more closely.......“By the sound of things you have a failed injector capsule”. Note the word injector, not injection pump. Try doing the lines test first and see what results you get.
#26 is the injector capsule, from its shape you can see why. Referred to in the Parts Manual as a "valve". IIRC the engine in your 955L is a transplant of what started life as a 4B-prefix industrial engine so who knows if the Part Number of capsule actually installed is what the 955L Parts Manual says or not.
Had Diesel Injector Service rebuild IP on my D3. There was an issue with the face on one of the capsules and they came out and changed it. Reason for bringing it up, is after removing the line, the capsule just unscrewed out of the pump. Put new one in and and fired it back up Your pump may do the same
That is the valve I open all the time when I'm priming to start or re-priming after running and power drops. And yes that is where I get the foamy fuel from. So how hard is it to change the lift pump? Can I run the machine as it is for some light work loading shale in a truck for a couple hours or am I risking more damage? I'm picking up a hand priming pump from the cat shop at noon today. For $150 I will toss that on and rule out the $30 aftermarket one I put on in 2020.
I'm battling to understand why instead of throwing parts at it you wouldn't first do the test of the injectors as suggested by TCT above. It would cost you nothing and might actually steer you in the right direction.
I will do the injector test tonight, and throw the hand pump on the shelf for a spare if I don't need it. Maybe I will hold off a day and pick up the hand pump tomorrow. I also ordered a new drain valve for the injection pump since the stem leaks when I open it, and it is cheap. I guess I'm struggling a little to understand some things. This is basically the first diesel I've worked on, aside from oil changes and basic maintenance. For this test, am I loosening the 4 injector line connections at the top of the pump or at the injectors? If the injector capsule (in the head) is failed, how does that create foamy fuel in the pump? Just to reiterate the symptoms, the machine runs good when I prime it and start it for about 10 minutes of normal heavy use, then I have the bog down issue, foamy fuel comes out of the IP drain when I hand prime it (machine off), OR I can idle for 5 minutes or so, either way lets me run for another 10 minutes until another bog down.
You are loosening the line at the fuel injection pump end. TCT's procedure repeated here - "By the sound of things you have a failed injector capsule, to test this point start the engine up and run it at low idle and undo each injector fuel line at the pump, look for a line that blows bubbly fuel out and makes the most fuss. tctractors." So basically not only look for bubbly fuel but listen to the engine note as well. If TCT is correct when you loosen one of the four lines the change in engine note will be different to the change you hear from the other three cylinders.
Roger that! I wish I could remember exactly why I changed the hand primer pump in 2020. I went back to page 7 or so of this thread when I had a fuel contamination issue with a clogged filter, but I think the hand pump piece wouldn't tighten down and that is why I replaced it. Either way I didn't record it here.
I seem to speak in a non English script often so lets start again, how does this sound your hand primer pump is what we might call a lift pump or bleed pump, anyhow it is not uncommon for the injector capsule on the P.C. engine to fail and let cylinder pressure back through to the injector pump, this will show up as foaming out of the fuel line to the duff injector capsule, you can test it many ways so if you need I can post a bit more on it, the injectors are set very low pressure only a few 100 psi over cylinder compression pressure, so making things easy you can slacken the lines on the pump or at the top of the injectors its your shout, with the engine running at low idle or mid speed take your 3/4 A.F. to the line hex and see if you can spot a change with the fuel leaking out, the frothy one is the duff one. tctractors
AH, now I understand what could be happening. I appreciate you taking the time to spell that out. I didn't know cylinder pressure could enter the IP through the injector.
I would defintely rule out the injectors first,and then find a good fuel system shop,CAT will drag you over the coals because they will replace EVERYTHING and it probably does not need all of the parts you will pay for.
I loaded some shale in my dump truck after work. When I load the truck I shut down, go dump, restart the crawler etc. i cut my work short because the 4th time I restarted it the crawler really sounded like it was missing on one cylinder and after idling for a minute it cleared up. So then I drove the crawler about 1/4 mile to my garage. When I keep the throttle under wide open, working it or driving it, I never had the bog down issue. I just got nervous because restarting was more getting more difficult. I did not change any parts yet. So I did the test cracking each injector line at low idle. I had bubbly fuel at each line, pictures attached. I think the 3rd and 4th lines sounded a little different, but I made a video so your more experienced ears can check it out. I uploaded the video to my google drive here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/150SB94I7S0nvpV8KMNRMXLBnzZAiYGcr/view?usp=drivesdk I also sprayed starter fluid around everything while it was idling and nothing happened.
Attached is a picture of the bubbly fuel that came out of the IP drain while at low idle. Not sure if this is normal or not. at that point I decided to take out my frustrations on the loader arm safety lock. Its been frozen in place since I got it and shame on me for not fixing it sooner, but I always sat the bucket on something for safety, etc. well its fixed now. It took a lot of muscle and a porta power, chain hoist, pry bars, kroil, hammers… the usual party supplies. So at least I got that done.
When I first did the injector test I thought the 4th line sounded different. Then I set up the camera to make that video. That time I thought the third line sounded different. Either way, the difference in sound wasn't significant, just a slight difference.
There is a plug on the injection pump to insert a pressure gauge, should be about 32psi, once that pressure drops to 20 or below the machine will begin to stumble be hard to start or quit. I would be looking at transfer pump if you have established the tank and lines including if you have one of those basket strainers is all clear.
Maybe I will replace the rubber hose that is part of the line from the tank to to the filter. Just to rule that out, and it costs nothing. It's probably older than I am.
The cylinder that shows the least change to the running of the engine is the duff cylinder, sad to say as you opened No1 fuel line a big hand was in the way to see how powerful the fuel pumped out, an easy thing to try and cheap enough would be to invest in a rocker cover gasket and a set of new capsules and seals, pull off the hood and wash off the engine then run a valve set and fit the new injector tips, if you had the injector pump rebuilt you would be fitting new tips anyhow, the sleeve metering pump was never the most robust fuel system CAT built, the fuel elements jamb up with the first excuse they find, as for your thinking that it could be sucking air well it often shows up as a leak when the engine is not running, another way of testing the injectors in place is to remove the fuel lines after first turning the tank tap off, with the throttle shut off squirt a drop of oil into the top of the injectors and spin the engine over to see if the oil blows away. tctractors
No 1 shot fuel out with good enthusiasm when cracked.
i think its your number 2 cylinder, 2nd one back from front, could not hear much of a change in engine pitch when you opened line, i know it can be hard too tell when your right up in close to the engine when running, other than that motor sounds good, cant hear the pc rattle 3304's are noted for that canny pinging sound
Well I think I'm still going to replace the hand pump and rubber fuel hose before anything else, just for the piece of mind, knowing I tried the "cheap stuff" first. If anyone wants to start educating me on how to replace an injector capsule feel free. This is all new territory for me.
really easy- remove line on top of valve or injector- unscrew cap/nut around 7/8" then pull injector out, there is an adapter tube that attaches to caps it is hand tight reinsert new assembly and torque nut,clean pc chamber adapter bore with round wire brush
So there is no calibration or setting injector height or anything like that? Easy part swapper job?
If this is a 13x machine it doesn't have pre-combustion chambers
Once you've figured out what is the correct Part Number for the injector valve, pretty much. From his signature line it's a late 85J.
Yes, 85J model with a 3304 engine. Well, I guess I'll look up the part number for those in my catalog and see how much they cost, but I should probably get them out and check them for numbers before ordering. Tonight I'm going to change the primer pump and suction side fuel hose, maybe remove the entire filter housing while I'm at it and just check it for any blockage on the outlet side, the only place I didnt have fuel free flowing. Then tomorrow I plan to use the machine to push a couple of fence posts into the ground. We will see how she runs.
Cost me about $1700 to have the D3 pump rebuilt in 2014, sure it will cost more now. Just thinking like if one went bad, might not be long before another does Edit: looks like CAT wants 10K for it
i think that might be your best bet. Looking back through the thread I recalled that the engine in your loader is a transplant (or at the very least the cylinder block is) that originally came from a 4B-prefix 3304 Industrial engine. So based on that who knows for certain how anything in the engine, including the injection system, is configured compared to what (per the parts manual) ought to be in the original 78P-prefix 3304 engine installed in 85J10466 by the factory.? IMO this is the dilemma any owner faces with a transplant engine if he wasn't there when it was assembled.
Its a 3304PC, SN 78P28005, 4N3974
Sorry, my mistake. Someone else posted a photo of an engine S/No plate earlier in your thread that I thought was yours.
If I'm still allowed to post real information . Original part number 7S9891 valve service group 4 of each. Make sure you get real fuel hose . Next time it acts up pull the hose off the filter to check for floaters in the tank. I've found when a nozzle check valve goes bad with the motor running and you loosen the fuel line on that nozzle the engine will run better. Good luck Banished Bob
I would be willing to bet that you need some work on the IP, your symptoms of air in all the lines is EXACTLY what mine was doing,but you should replace the nozzles,or capsules, first just keep the old ones for spares in case you get in a bind and need one quick, yours are probably still good. I will try to check and see if the fellow that I know down in Ga. is still alive and doing work. He charged me $800 to go through my pump and it was running like a champ when he got through with it. I'm sure it has increased in price now and the price varies on what he actually replaces.
No updates, rain has been relentless and I've been tackling some other things. Looks like the injector capsule 7S9891 is now 8N8796. What's involved in rebuilding an IP? Sounds like something the average DIY guy doesn't attempt.
Definately not something even remotely close to DIY. Send it to the pumpguysc.
I'm scratching my head here--am I missing something? 1. You are getting bubbly fuel at the IP overflow. 2. No real changes to the engine when you loosen the injector lines 3. AND you are still NOT SURE that you are getting pure fuel to the IP, without air. 4---and we are now off chasing parts in the injectors???? Why not take off the fuel line to the injector pump and attach a hose to it, then: A. See what happens when you hold the fuel above the IP and allow it to gravity feed into the pump, (no more bubbly fuel?) & (how does it run when working?) B. Put the fuel below the pump and force the IP transfer pump to suck fuel into the pump. (back to bubbly fuel?) & (how does it run when working?) Those two tests will cost you nothing but some time and will tell you if you have a bad transfer pump inside the IP or air coming in from somewhere upstream in the fuel line from the filter/priming pump/fuel tank. I must be cheap or something...nobody is going to reimburse you if you have the injection pump rebuilt and find out that nothing changes! The two tests I have suggested will likely allow you to make the decision on rebuilding the pump with some certainty, although it may only be the transfer pump inside the IJ that is bad. However, a decent shop with test equipment should be able to tell you if the transfer pump is bad and be able to document your injector pump performance to see if it is acceptable without rebuild.
You're correct,all that I know is that if you do it wrong the engine can run away and the parts are not easy to get.
Well I appreciate you summarizing it and those suggestions. I was planning on doing some more work on the "suction side" of things before going after inspectors and the IP. I'm grateful for everyone posting all the information though, I have a lot to learn, and yes, I'm very thrifty in general. I was going to replace the hose and primer pump next. I think I can rig up the fuel can as you described, the only problem is the issue was manifesting after 10 minutes of running, so I will have to figure out how to pull that that alternative fuel source test. Regarding a shop testing the lift pump and IP, would that be a Cat shop or someone independent? If independent, how do I even go about finding someone like that? Everyone local I know either has a new machine or an old machine that never needs a thing, so my local networking hasn't turned up much.
I would just like to bring a small detail forward, the fuel tank bottom is I feel higher than the top of the injector pump and with a full tank of fuel is a good foot + higher than the top of the injectors, so the fuel feed involves no sucking, there is control valves (Check Valves) in the sleeve type pump that could be an issue but often on a fuel system of this type if it can suck air it can also leak fuel. tctractors
Correct, the fuel supply is higher than the pump, and I never did find a lift pump in the parts book.
I don't remember a separate lift pump on mine either.
Cliff notes Trouble shooting KISS keep it simple. Homeowners shot gun method replace the most expensive and work back to plugged filter. My son holds the record for floaters came back from 3 weeks off other shift spent 30K on fuel system parts still won't run. He spent 30 minutes fishing a sandwich bag out of the fuel tank runs again. Put end of new hose on fuel shutoff valve. Put other end in bucket and turn fuel on . See if fuel flow is steady for 3 or 4 gallons. if not check tank for floaters. If good hook hose to filter and see if fuel will flow thru filter. make sure tank is at least half full. The fuel transfer pump is inside the injection pump. Good luck Bad Bob
I installed electric inline fuel pump before IP to solve my mechanical lift pump issue. Turn key on and fuel is flowing. If still doesn't run good then you can look else where. Cheap transfer pump diagnostic.
There's a lift pump inside the injector pump body, as others have noted. And for those who are implying a lift pump isn't needed seem to forget that these machines get into some gawdawful places where she might be nearly standing on end---in other words, the tank may be FEET below the injector pump. 361 Brock also mentions a simple test by using an electric pump. I had forgotten about that kind of fix--my forwarder has a Perkins diesel where the lift pump is a simple diaphragm pump run off the camshaft. The previous owner had trouble with getting fuel and did the same- an electric pump in front of the OEM pump. Been running it that way for years. YMMV. Jon. PS:. Where's PumpGuySC? I'm sure he would have some words of wisdom.
The only down side of fitting an inline electric pump before a diaphragm transfer pump is if the diaphragm fails the fuel could pass into the crankcase where the cam drives that pump. Not real sure that can happen, just my thinking possible. I still would try it.
Talk to some local loggers or anyone running older CAT machines,someone should know of a private fuel system guy,CAT will want more than you could imagine to fix your pump.
I was lead to this topic by a concerned member..(lol) I’m gonna need some time to read thru the postings but I’ll back..
The air in the cracked fuel lines tell the story.. Your sucking air.. which could mean a clogged tank outlet.. The reason it runs for a short time is, the supply pump is sucking the fuel from the filters..& by the time u get there to check it, gravity has filled them back up.?? Check every connection from the tank to the IP.. one might be sealed with a rubber grommet.. the grommets get torn but won’t leak fuel BUT WILL suck air.. I would start at the filter INLET.. take off the line and put in a 5 gallon bucket.. fuel should flow freely.. Let it run for a minute or two.. any blurps and u got floaters in the tank. If ok, hook it back up and go to the other side of the filter.. Remove the line and check the flow..
BTW.. I to would rig up a 12v supply pump.. That way u can remove the outlet line to check the flow..
If I get an alternative fuel supply rigged up I can at least crack the injector lines on top of the pump and see if that eliminated the air bubbles to confirm the suction leak, right? I think every connection is a brass compression fitting, except for the barb fitting rubber hose ends. I've been pounding fence posts lately. Still haven't had a chance to do anything else, but I hope you're right and my injectors and pump are not the problem.
This thread is timley for me. I am having the same issue with a 955l. Ran fine when parked. Two weeks later went to start it and it runs for a short amount of time and stalls. Have to let it set a bit and it will fire back up but stalls again. Changed fuel filter and water seperator. No change. Getiing good fuel pressure on the gauge. When running you can crack the injector lines at the pump. 1,3 and 4 all have a change in tone and cause a misfire. They spurt a small amount of fuel but nothing extreme. Crack open number 2 and there is no change in tone or rpm. It flows bunches fuel! Not a spurt like a timmed injection but a massive constant flow like an open fuel hose! When it runs it runs like its at high or full throttle and wont idle down till it sliws down and dies out. Any ideas? Sorry hate to hijack this thread but our problems seem so identical.
Your problem is different . Which pump do you have? Bad Bob
If my problem is different then I will start a new thread. Thank you!
It must be cat fueling problem season. A guy with a D3 or D4 on the facebook group seems to have similar issues. It's too bad I can't see the outlet of my fuel tank from the filler hole. There's baffles in the way. I think I will drain it and borrow a friend's borescope to see what it looks like.
Back to it. Drained the tank last night. Attached picture shows the crud that came out of the drain, which is separate and next to the fuel outlet. I filtered all the fuel through a funnel with a screen as it drained. No major findings. Tonight I go in with a borescope. I removed the fuel filter assembly, completely disassembled it, cleaned everything, and put a new Cat made primer pump on it. I didn't realize ALL the fuel flows through the primer pump. So a leak in the primer pump seals would be bad. On the outlet side of the filter housing, the fitting has an o-ring that I didn't know about. Same goes for the fitting at the inlet of the governor housing. I'm picking up new o-rings as they look tired. No inline screens found in any connections or fittings. I replaced a section of the 5/16" brake line that goes from the governor to the air intake, it appeared to have a tiny pin hole in it where it was rubbing and wearing. I removed the fuel hose that goes from the hard line from the tank to the filter housing. It is some heavy duty air brake hose. I don't think this was causing a problem. The inside of the hose looks good, and it is stiff as hell. It's getting replaced with proper 3/8" fuel hose though. Got to fill the that hard line with alcohol and blow it through the line tonight to clean it out. I also picked up a new drain petcock from Cat for the fuel injection pump. The old one probably needs new stem packing. Hopefully one of these things I'm doing fixes the issue. Can't say I have the time to properly do one at a time. I've been swamped for the past month with the day job and putting up horse fence, finally got some time to work on this. Saturday I'm going to look at a Caterpillar R5 that is mine for free if I want it. It's been sitting 4 years in a pole barn. Needs some work, but is supposed to run and operate as it is. Has a hydraulic blade on it. Still has the original gasoline engine in it. Not the ideal dozer, but free is for me.
Thanks for including us in your work. The pictures really help!
Well things have been frustrating yesterday and today. temps in the low 60s both days. yesterday I tried to start it. Added fuel, primed pump. Cranked and cranked, puffs of white smokes, no start. I found one fuel hard line connection at the tank leaking and tightened the fitting. Toasted a battery terminal. Time to clean those I guess. This morning I cleaned the battery terminals and replaced the one that melted. Realized I should probably bleed the injectors. Did that once. No starting. Got it to run on either but it wouldnt keep running. bled the injector lines again. At the pump and at the injectors. Got fuel. still no starting. rigged up a can of fuel directly to the primary filter inlet. Primed pump and bled injectors again. Still cranking with white smoke. Popped once now and again but its just not starting. Got fed up and had to walk away. i need to look at the air filter and make sure chipmunks didnt move in. other than that, I am scratching my head pretty hard! I drove it right to where i parked it, drained the fuel from the tank, cleaned the lines and filter housing, put it back together. When i had my fuel issues before at least it would start and run. Grrrrrrrr!
My current situation sounds exactly like this guys problems: HeavyEquipmentForums
You are not getting enough fuel White smoke is fuel unburned so is getting some, starts on ether but dies says fuel. Time to pull and inspect check valves for trash moved to them.
Check valves? Like a pressure relief valve in the injection pump? well I had a win today but not on the 955L. got a 1937 R5 to fire up. Just had to clean the contacts and rig up a fuel can. Bringing it home soon.
They're about the size of a watch battery. I changed mine but didn't need to. That was before I discovered the screen in the fuel line. I can't remember where they are it was so long ago.
I like the new dozer! Pads good, metal straight, good find. I'm looking forward to seeing it with the blade on.
The R5 looks good! Bonus that it runs without having to do much too get it that way! Double bonus for free! I think R5's aren't that common so you might get a little more if/when you sell it, too. There are lots of antique cat collectors out there... I'm one. Jon.
Alright alright, focus everyone! lol. I will make a separate thread on the R5. Back to this 955L issues. So to summarize: I feel confident at this time that clean, air free fuel is being supplied to the IP, so what could be the culprit keeping me from starting? And what was possibly the cause of my air in the injector lines and low power issues before? Possibilities: 1. Injectors/capsules 2. Check valves in the pump 3. Lift pump in the IP Those are the three possible suspects brought up when I went back through the last few pages of this thread. What I know so far: 1. This looks like it will cost me $400 and a few hours. 2. No clue how to attack this one. 3. No clue how to attack this one. Some suggestions for further troubleshooting: - Electric fuel pump to push fuel into the IP and rule out the lift pump - A test of shutting off the fuel and squirting oil into the injector to see if it shoots it out, not sure how this would work? So at this point I can feel the frugality leaving my body and I am setting the fuse on the parts cannon lol. I'm running out of weather and I have a few things I really need to get done.
I can't remember but is it turning over really fast? Just thinking maybe a starter issue. Does it have a block heater, if so plug it in and get the engine really warm. The check valves are simple enough to check. Is there a way to put 3 or 4 psi to the fuel tank to help push the fuel. It seems like your machine is on the verge of starting. I'm thinking once it starts it might be much easier the next times if it's air locked or something.
So, I was also thinking along those lines. Get a block heater, verify all 4 glow plugs are working. I think they are, the ammeter needle moves when I switch to preheat. I can just check all 4 for equal resistance to see if one is sleeping on the job. I need to check in the operator manual how long to hold them on. I usually go 15 seconds but Ive heard people say to use them for a minute.
I use glow plugs for at least a minute always except hot summer time. When it starts getting cooler I do it longer. Read somewhere it can be as much as 15 minutes wen pretty cold. Mines old and it does start easier when I use them My 20amp resetable breaker/fuse pops after about a minute so I let off, give it a few seconds and back on longer. Do need to get around to replacing it, its blowing to easy. All my glows are fairly new
Wow, guess I've been doing that wrong haha
You can put a blow dryer in the air intake too.
so how do I go after the check valves? I think I see two valves inside the bottom right corner when you remove the large square cover on the side of the plate. Are those the valves? Or are they under the 4 lines on top of the IP?
They aren't hard to get at but I can't remember exactly where they are. I'll start a new thread asking about them for you.
Pictures from my parts manual if it helps. The second image shows item #8 as a valve. I think this is the main bypass or check valve. The third image shows 4 check valves in the individual pumps. I think to get to these I need a special socket and extractor (8T5287 and 8S2244). The 4th image shows a valve in section D-D. I think this is the main bypass or check valve. I kind of want to take the cover plate off the injection pump and see what it looks like in there.
An out of box idea if looking for absolute confirmation of air entertainment - only resorted to this once before when head scratching. Remove all four injector pipes from the top of the IP. and then crank the buggery out of it whilst watching the state of the fuel leaving the pump. very low volume, so no spray as such. If you are happy with the pump outlet, then do the same with the pipes on the pump and off the injectors. The amount of fuel from each pump segment should be the same. Have the throttle on the highest setting it will allow for this. By laying your thumb gently on the outlet port you get a good idea of relative pressures between the elements. gently being a key word here.... If there is a pump issue you may see the outlet from one or more elements just lift and retract, without actually delivering any fuel.
In the above case the pump had just been rebuilt by an off site shop and had not been correctly reassembled.
Installed a cat block heater. Ran it for 2.5 hours today. Warmer out today too. Held glow plugs for 1 minute. right away it starts trying to pop off and start but it stumbles each time. got it to run on starting fluid again but it just died once I stopped spraying. bled the injector lines again at the pump and at the injectors. #3 line at the top of the pump wont squirt but it does it at the injector. i took a video of how its trying to start but seems to be lacking fuel. i had the throttle at #2 position. No starting fluid used in the video. https://imgur.com/a/V7ZsmJM i guess next I will unhook the lines at the top of the pump and see what the spray looks like, make another video. then if they all look the same do the same test with the injectors. thoughts?
Running out of fuel can genuinely be a ****. Most of the time we get lucky, but I have been caught out the same as you before. It was air in the system that tripped me up, took a lot of stuffing around to get it going. So to recap: Machine ran out of fuel- topped up fuel and bled- machine has not come back to running condition since. I am thinking that it is time to de-complicate this a little. Whilst it is possible that the pump has taken damage by running dry, this is quite unlikely. Air entrained somewhere within the system is likely. We want to get back to the point where the system is flooded and the pump is happy. I would go back a step at this point and drain the system. - shut the fuel off at the tank. disconnect all lines - tank to filter - filter to pump - ip to injectors. -not sure if there is a drain on the pump, but would look for this. -refill the system proving one component at time. ie- tank flow out of the tank valve -fuel flow from the filter end of the supply line into a 1 liter ish jar. plug with thumb then connect to filter -flow out of filter. same rate as flow in..... At this point I would want the fuel tank to be full. As much head as possible. (May even be worth considering a fuel can on the roof for added head. Consider using a clean 1/2" hose, clean fuel and a clean fuel can to supply fuel directly to the pump. could possibly do this before the rest of this idea?) -remove the pump bleed if possible and flood the pump. let it settle and flood it some more. (this is where there may be a pocket of air tripping you up. -It can help to turn the engine while flooding the pump to chase out air. -flood the injector lines. - test run consider hooking the injectors up out of the engine (remove the lines and reconnect them facing outboard. attach a long is jar to (think 1' tall wide mouthed sauce jar or similar)) set it up so you can see the spray pattern and measure the amount of fuel delivered. Pump damage is possible but it is exceedingly unlikely. Be positive whilst you can and redo the basics. The symptoms still sound very much like air entrapment. good luck.
Went from running great, ran out of fuel and not won't run If I didn't know it ran out of fuel I would wonder if it lost compression. White smoke always told me unburned fuel, to cold, to much or low compression
I will add that after the initial running out of fuel, I was able to get the machine started again and work it a few more evenings, but it was acting like fuel was restricted and I had to bleed air from the pump each time I wanted to start it. It started sound worse and getting harder to start so thats when I parked it and started working on it. So it ran when parked as they say. Not well, but it was running when I started tinkering with the fuel system. now that I think about it, I got it started again after I started tinkering with it to take that video of cracking the injector lines at the IP while running that I posted a few pages back.
Perhaps concentrate on a direct fuel supply to the pump. Including a drain and flush through the vent. Does the 3304 have a hand priming pump like the 330? On an old sc150 (7liter Deutz) I ended up running a new flex fuel line from the tank to the pump with a new aftermarket filter. Could be worth a shot here. Even a new line to the existing filter…..
Yes, hand primer pump on the filter housing before the IP, photos attached.
The leakage on the pipe behind the fuel rack lever is interesting. Is it from a filter change or something else? Access to the pump inlet looks good. Would definitely remove the delivery lines and turn the engine during the flush. Setting the throttle to full would also be helpful in chasing out air. (When turning the engine) If you get it running, more throttle is better than less for chasing air out. Does not take much for a jerk pump element to bounce air, particularly at low revs (low delivery volumes). Assuming they are individual jerk pumps with a scroll for delivery volume control. If it runs well on a seperate supply you can at least work backwards. The good thing it sounds like air. Which is fixable.
I noticed on the pump drawings that you provided that there is a delivery check valve on each IP element. This is normal but will mean that you will have to force the air out of each barrel. There are two way to do this, I would suggest doing both due to the issues this is giving you. - use the hand primer to push fuel through the IP with small glass jars under the end of each delivery line. Note and mark which element (s) that fuel is pushed through. Then turn the engine a little and repeat until you have seen fuel pushed through each element. You will need the throttle on a setting other than stop to do this. - with the delivery pipes still off and the throttle on as high a setting as you can, turn the engine on the starter and observe fuel being positively delivered from each element. If not then return to priming with the hand pump. - with the pipes on and a small glass jar under each pipe at the injector end, give is a good set of turns on the starter and look to see the same amount of fuel in each jar. Once you get to this point the pump is flooded and the machine should be happy. If it looses suction again then you are looking for a fuel suction leak and probably a blockage as well. Still thinking supply rather than a pump issue. Stick with a supply issue, much more civilized. Getting positive flow through each pump element would be a great sign at this point. The pump is a simple arrangement. Barrel - Plunger - Check valve. The other key part is the rack for controlling volume. Checking of the rack operation would be worth while soon as well. (possibly disabling the start limiter if present, disconnecting throttle linkage and then satisfying yourself that the rack operates full range smoothly).
Do wonder how you get the pump on anything but idle for starting. Mine will not move past idle until after the motor starts
Injection Pumps sitting with engine Not Running but with lever at Idle are actually in Full Fuel Delivery at the Helix Pumps. They do not retard back to idle until the governor weights match demanded need.
Good suggestions above. I will hopefully be able to work on it again this week. Got a lot done on the fence project this weekend and thankfully that is wrapping up soon. Is it possible to use a vacuum at the injector end of the injector lines to pull fuel through? I started vacuum bleeding brakes on cars after a few experiences with brake circuits that wouldnt give up an air bubble.
My throttle lever moves freely, motor running or not. That's all I know! Found this video on youtube, pretty sure this is what my pump looks like internally:
INTAKE OR EXHAUST, can't tell!!!! Beyond Classic!!! Two stuck Injector plungers
Ya I thought that was funny too. The same guy posted another video of them all working so I guess he figured it all out.
I'm thinking more about a IP issue. The fuel level moves easy enough but will not go past idle. Was yours able to do this before all the trouble?
Its always moved freely with the engine off, no change as far as I can tell. But im just talking about the lever next to the seat, not sure about throttle control at the IP.
Agree, but my seat lever only moves maybe 2 inches back and stops, cannot more it further back until motor is running, then it will come all the back Yours is newer then mine so its probably working as it should. My manual states On earlier engines, when engine is started, the speed limiter plunger restricts the movement of the governor control linkage. When operating oil pressure id reached, the plunger in the speed limiter retracts and the governor control can can be moved to high idle
Nice warm day yesterday! I removed all 4 injector lines from the top of the IP and the flow looks to be consistent and sufficient: https://imgur.com/a/Av3Nt5O I then bled the injectors while a helper cranked it. The machine started and sounded good for a second then acted like it ran out of fuel. I went to prime the injection pump and air came out of the bleeder. After priming it started again and died. Again, air from the injection pump bleeder. I didn't have any more time to mess with it. I want to repeat these steps at least 4 more times just to make sure I'm not working air out of the system before I start chasing the fuel path to the injection pump, because I think at this point the problem is at or before the transfer pump.
Sounds like you are onit. Just a matter of time.
Sucking air somewhere on a semi gravity flow system indicates a blockage or the tank is not venting adequately while a loose connection bad oring is allowing air in
Update! I unhooked the fuel line at the filter and confirmed strong gravity feed of fuel from the tank, letting it run into a can for awhile. I hooked up an electric fuel pump and a fuel line feeding from a can and connected it to the inlet of the fuel filter. Still wouldnt start and bled the injector lines again for good measure. The electric pump pushed enough that I could prime pump and bleed injector lines. Bypassed the filter and fed fuel directly into the pump. Same deal. The fuel flows really nicely out of the injection pump bleeder line when the pump is running and it is directly connected like this. It popped and tried to start but still wont fire up. Lots of white then dark smoke. Bled the injector lines again. Ran it on ether a little for the heck of it. I need notice the fuel pressure gauge had movement and it got to half way on the gauge after awhile of continuous cranking. So I pulled the cover off the side of the pump. Not much crud in there. A small bit of shiny particles and some surface rust particles laying on the bottom. The inside face of the cover plate had light surface rust. One thing I noticed is nothing moves with the throttle lever. No rack sliding or anything. Is that something that only moves when the engine is turning? Checked fuel flow into the pump with the cover off: https://imgur.com/a/fhJ4Tx9 I guess next step is remove the injectors and crank it to see what their flow looks like with them hooked to the lines, or something else? Should I just take the injectors somewhere to have them tested/inspected?
What manual will give me the most info about the IP? The 955L service manual or the 3304 vehicle engine service manual? I have a 955K manual someone sent me on pdf and it seems to have some good info but has a different looking pump and governor.
I dont think I can really test the transfer pump which is on the front of the pump any way other than cranking it with that side plate off and observing the flow, which doesnt quantify much.
I just read this thread, and it makes me want to take the governor apart: HeavyEquipmentForums
So I removed some parts and its ugly in there. Gunk, moisture, rust. check out this video, when I hold the throttle to high idle its shooting fuel out of the pumps while cranking. I think this means the sleeves are sitting too low and the governor isnt letting them move up… https://imgur.com/a/5bDBq8Z
I'm not much help but...... Maybe set up the engine at a timing place...... Then there's a place to set the IP to the engine then take off the IP.
I think I am going to pull it and take it to a shop. They quoted me $2k for overhaul and the guy I talked to gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling. But I would set it to proper alignment with #1 TDC before pulling. Cat quoted me $3800 to rebuild it.
Agree, sure looks like time to rebuild
Should be done Friday. 4 new injector capsules and 4 new sleeve pumps. Transfer pump is in good shape. He said it had an unusual amount of crap inside the housing. Don't have the final bill yet.
He already gave you a “ballpark” 2k.. so it won’t b a surprise..when it’s 2350.00.. Hope it all works out..
Picked it up and the bill was $1,360. Hopefully put it in tonight or some evening later this week.
Hmm.. 2k ballpark and a 1300. bill.?? I’m happy for ya.. but it makes me wonder..
Well he said $1200-$2400 depending on what it needs, and I just kind of posted the average. Weather is currently putting a damper on my plans. Hopefully one day I have a shop this thing fits in.
lol. I have the steel for one on the ground, but any hole I dig atm becomes a bore rather than a footing.....
Said screw the snow flurries and installed the pump tonight. I tightened the gear to the pump and found I didnt have the 1/4” pin in all the way. Rotated the motor till the pin fell in. Unbolted the gear from the pump and then continued rotating the motor till my marks lined up on the timing gears that I made (total of 2 motor revolutions to line the marks up). Checked the bolt went in the flywheel hole and the pin was in the pump properly. Tightened the pump to the gear. I sure hope I did it right. The marks I made on the timing gears with paint stick came in handy. Guess I will plug in the block heater after work tomorrow and try to start it tomorrow night. I checked the resistance of each block heater. 3 are around 4.5 ohms and 1 has 7.7 ohms. Should I replace the high one?
Replace ALL 4..
4 ordered. Also ordered the lead assembly since the wires look like hell.
Probably a stupid question. When I turned the engine over twice by hand I realize now I went the wrong direction (clockwise when viewed from the back). Just an overly cautious thought, can the oil pump lose its prime because of this? Obviously the gauge will tell me when I go to start it.
Should not make any difference. If it makes you feel any better before heating the glow plugs to start engine crank the engine over a few seconds till you see the pressure gauge start to move. Then heat the glow plugs and start the engine.
It lives! Last night I Finished installing the pump, ran the block heater a few hours, bled everything, and it fired up. This morning I ran the block heater a few hours again then got to work with it. It sounds good. Runs strong. No bogging down. Idle sounds smoother than before. I STILL have to purge air out of the pump each time I start it. It’s sucking air somewhere still. The fuel pressure gauge is dipping almost to zero when I’m running hard but the machine doesn’t bog down. Most of the time it was between the 11 o clock and 1 o clock positions (see picture). I’m thinking about swapping my old hand primer pump back on. The new one I got from cat has fuel coming out around the plunger when I’m using it, so I’m guessing thats not right! Picture attached. Another one of my random thoughts: Should I bleed air out of the line going to the fuel gauge?
Don't think a new pump should leak Don't see bleeding the gauge Still looks like air leak somewhere
Swapped the new cat hand primer pump for my old one and problems solved. Fuel pressure is pegged and it starts easy. UNTIL my 4th time starting it today to load shale. Just clicks. Batteries are good. try to jump the solenoid with a screw driver and it tries to weld itself to the terminals. A hundred more clicks with the key and cant get lucky. starter seems to be stuck. So im pulling it now with the loader arms down and this is really fun
Have you tried to smack the starter with a hammer
I smacked it around like it owed me money. Until the head flew off the hammer. Didnt help. dropping it off at the local starter guy tomorrow pulling it up and out was a feat. I will have to drop the front pans and lift it up to put it back in
They make newer type starts that use rare earth magnets and planetary gear sets. There lighter and smaller but have more torque. Replaced the one on my dozer, was about 20 LB lighter and smaller so easier to reinstall
I did something similar with the starter in my dump truck on the 454. Lightweight high torque. I will have to do some research into what I can buy.
Can anyone tell me if my engine should have a 40MT starter? Serial numbers in signature
I'm coming up with 2 part numbers 7N1285 and 3P0006 Went to Delcoremy.com and was unable to cross the part numbers Looked up the starter by application (955L and 3304 motor) 39MT having 12 teeth (8200435) and does not have the nose cone https://www.delcoremy.com/find-a-part/product-details/8200435
There are a raft of starter motor Part Numbers listed for 85J9510-Up. 7S-4090, 5N-3182, 3P-0006, 4N-7752, & 2P-2502. All of the foregoing service to 6V-5227 (and ultimately to 207-1560) which are both 42-MT starter motors.
I took my starter to my local guy this morning. He said what I brought him is a Prestolite that is too small to be on my machine, should be a 40MT. He said the 40MT is longer than what I have, and I was concerned about it having a fitment issue with the turbo oil lines. In my parts book it shows both a 7S4090 (Delco-Remy) or a 4N7752 (Prestolite). The 4N7752 visually matches what I have. The book doesn't give any hint at when to use either one. Talking to my local parts guy his system shows these options for my machine: 4N7901 (Prestolite), 4N7902 - (Delco-Remy). He said these all supersede to 10R0399, a 42MT, which jives with Nige's info. I called the local guy and told him Cat says I need a 42MT, not a 40MT. He said the 42MT is a newer version of the 40MT with a different solenoid, the starter motors are physically the same size, and he things the 40MT is a better starter than the 42MT. Guess we will find out tonight if the 40MT fits. Another $500 thrown at the 955L. I figured the alternator would be the next thing to go since I drenched it in fuel when I was doing injection pump things. I had something covering it but it got bumped and fell. This machine still does more than enough work to justify the repairs though.
any old starter off of a truck or stationary equipt should work ,just dont try putting a 50mt it may be too big,make sure it turns the right direction is 24v and the nose cone is correct, plus teeth count, $500.00 is a bit high any wrecker should sell you one for a dollar to a dollar and a half, if iam right a brand new one is around 600.00 find a better deal, out here on the left coast rebuilders used too build you one if you brought them 2 buildable cores but that was a while back ,now with all the china junk around new starters are around $250.00 online but the quality is questionable
It was $492, which included a $50 core charge I had to pay. Picked up it on my lunch break and putting it in tonight. I might get my old starter rebuilt for a spare, never enough heavy things laying around here. I did see all the online options at those prices but I want to run the machine tomorrow, so to heck with it. What's another few bills on the fire at this point. Guess I'll be putting in some more OT hours this winter when there's nothing to do outside.
In the overall scheme of things $500 to have a good reliable starter, especially in a difficult to replace location isn't too bad. If you think a 955 is a PIA to R&R try a 931B loader with a ND starter. Requires 2 people, belly pan has to come off and 1 of the bolts is a pain to get to. Maybe 1/4" clearance from the frame.
The 39MT is the latest replacement (gear reduction) starter. http://www.newindo.com/delcoremy/39mt-delcoremy-startermotor.htm
That 39MT looks like it would of been sweet. Oh well, next time. The 40MT is in with the help of a neighbor. No way was that going in without help. Had to drop the small pans under the engine and push it up while the neighbor put the bolts in. It cranks fast and in the right direction. Glad thats done.
I had one off of my 13x 955L a few years ago by a retired Cat fuel system guy that has been doing fuel pumps for many years and it cost me $800 but his quote was like yours,it depends on what it takes,so I came out lucky too.
I'm thinking this is where you're getting air.
No issues since I replaced the hand pump. Ran it all day yesterday until dinner time.
I ran the machine for numerous days digging and loading shale. Everything is back to good. I lost two bucket teeth and found them with a metal detector. Current to do list: - reattach those two teeth - install new glow plugs and harness - change engine oil and filter Thanks to everyone who helped this year. I learned a lot, fixed a lot, and got a lot of work done on the property. I added a 1937 R5 dozer to collection and now I'm adding another old cat. A friend hooked me up with a deal on a 1963 44A D6B with a cable blade. Runs and tracks nice. I am getting it next weekend. It seems I have the antique heavy equipment addiction now.
The a THE ADDICTION IS REAL MERRY CHRISTMAS
Yesterday was the last warm day for awhile so I retrieved the 955L from the back of the property and brought it up to the house for some maintenance. Engine oil change was uneventful. I still had the front belly plates off from replacing the starter so that saved time. No one told me the glow plugs would be so much fun. I had never replaced glow plugs before. Now I know the build up on them makes the stem larger than the hole it went in, but with the help of kroil, vise grips, and patience I replaced them. Now to tend to the rest of the fluid levels, replace the transmission temperature gauge that quit working, and reattach two bucket teeth that came off. I did some reading on diesel coolant additive. I didn't know anything about it until I saw it mentioned in another forum here. I have been adding normal green coolant when needed or when I did some work. Does anyone have a recommendation for an additive? Draining and refilling with premixed diesel coolant isn't too exciting for my wallet, but if everyone says just do that then I might have to. I still run a little warmer than I like if I don't keep the radiator blown out and run it in the "sweet spot" of engine rpm.
Post a photo of the coolant container showing what specification it meets. It is likely that different advice would be necessary depending on what the coolant you are currently using actually is.
This is what I buy and mix with distilled water: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Te...NqOciJ1woEn-iOEP9eRoConsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds Free of phosphate, borates, nitrites, silicates, and amines Protects against corrosion of cooling systems metals, including aluminum High-quality defoamer which is non-harmful to hoses, plastics, or gaskets Premium quality, extended life antifreeze/coolant Meets ASTM D3306
If it meets ASTM D3306 that is a light-duty coolant, the sort of thing you would use in your pickup truck cooling system for example. You really need a Heavy Duty coolant that meets the requirements of ASTM D4985, such as the example below. Alternatively have a word with your Cat dealer and ask them what their price is for Cat ELC coolant. https://www.owi.com/commercial/bran...-coolants/final-charge-pro-series-50-50-1-gal
“Next time” u run into gp’s that are swollen like that, spray’m down like u did.. THEN, chuck’m up in a cordless drill and spin it while your pushing and pulling.. it makes short work outta a crappy job.. BE SURE to keep the drill straight, otherwise you’ll snap a gp.. & that’s no bueno.
Called a dealer and 5 gal buckets of ELC are $84.06 - $16.81 per gal. The Cat ELC is prediluded, right? I found the Cat ELC adheres to ASTM D3306 and D6210, but not D4985. My local Rural King has this heavy duty option: https://www.ruralking.com/providence-heavy-duty-precharged-antifreeze-concentrate No initial charge of SCAs required Meets or exceeds: ASTM D3306, ASTM D6210, TMC RP329 Service life of 300,000 miles | 6,000 hours of offroad use* That would be the most economical option if it is suitable, as it is cheap per gallon and sold as a concentrate. For me to reference later: • ASTM D3306 : Ethylene glycol based coolant for automobile and light duty service; can be high silicate or low silicate (less than 250ppm as Si). • ASTM D4985 : Low-silicate ethylene glycol based coolant for heavy-duty engines requiring a precharge of supplemental coolant additive (SCA) • ASTM D6210 : Fully-formulated ethylene glycol based coolant for heavy-duty engines; containing a minimum of 2400ppm nitrite (1200ppm in 50/50) or 1560 nitrite plus molybdate (780ppm in 50/50); does not require an initial charge of SCA. Note: ASTM D3306, D4985, and D6210 all incorporate the following individual tests. If an antifreeze meets any of these standards, it also meets the following: • ASTM D1384: Corrosion in glassware • ASTM D4340: Corrosion of cast aluminium alloys under heat-rejected conditions. • ASTM D2570: Simulated service corrosion testing • ASTM D2809: Cavitation erosion/corrosin in aluminum water pumps
Apologies. I shot from the hip when replying to you above instead of checking first. I already gave myself a metaphorical rap on the knuckles. Should have been a product that meets ASTM D6210, not D4985.
I see a lot more antifreeze these days that specifically says for diesel engines or HD diesel engines. On older machines I'd imagine there wasn't much difference in antifreeze types. Would switching to a newer type on an older machine be beneficial, harmful or not make much difference?
Ran my 955L sporadically in 2023 and a few times this year with no issues so far. Cleared some trees, dug out some stumps, dug up some rock, loaded some dirt and rock in my bigger dump truck I acquired. Just thought I would post a happy comment about an 85J 955L.
Diesel engine antifreeze has special additives to prevent erosion in the water jacket.
As well control cavitation on sleeve walls.
All the additives could have came about for sleeved engines. On the dry sleeved Perkins in my tractor I don't think they type of antifreeze is too critical. I did use a heavy duty that's red in colour.
That’s what I meant to say,words escape me sometimes.
I just know that Cummins uses a filter with the additives in it and Cat puts them in their antifreeze so I buy it or the fleetgaurd brand that has them in it and I run it in my Diesel engines.
Wet sleeves are more picky about the antifreeze.
Since Covid words escape me too pretty often