does it help? are they hard surfaced already? we use cat points, and arent getting very many hrs out of them, they told me they are 500 dollars a piece, when it gets to the point where it doesnt rip very well there is alot of iron still left on the point, its on a d11 so its a big point wide too. it never gets very sharp either its so wide that it always stays rounded. yes i rip with it curled under me the right way, any advice would be appreciated
Yair . . . 637slayer . A bit out of my league these days but I reckon the only way to find out is to get some advise and consumables from a specialist hard facing supply company do one and run the numbers. I'm a bit puzzled by your statement that you rip the "right way" with it curled right under . . . that second set of barrels is there for using and curled under is not necessarily the "right way". It always used to be that the optimum angle was with the tine vertical but I am going back a bit and that may well have changed. Whatever the case ripping is not necessarily about brute force and horsepower. In tight rock it's about feel and finesse and looking for grain and layers and looking for dust puffing where rock is moving and then jacking the tractor up on that four barrel and wriggling it around . . . . Cheers
Typically the ARM (Abrasive Resistant Material) when added to ripper boots tempers the metal and they often break right where the weld material finishes. You didn,t say if you are turning the boot over to keep it sharp and what gear you are ripping in. I worked for a "world class" goldminer once who had a D11 and they used brand X ripper boots that had a lifting lug cast on what would be the top of the boot on the initial install. They would call up to get a new boot all the time and one day when it was my turn to go change it i went down and said to the operator why don,t i just turn it over for you and he promptly advised me that management had told all dozer drivers that you can,t turn the boot over because it does not have a hook on the opposite side to lift it from!!! Straight up and down is definently not the go scrub puller, you definently want some curl under, best way is to think of it is like an excavator bucket as you load it.
I have only found ARM to be useful on ripper points if the material is abrasive but "easily rippable". As Gav says on really hard materials the ARM seems to do more harm than good because the points have a tendency to break. If you are breaking points then look carefully at how the ripping process is being done. Can you get a Part Number of the point There are all sorts of options and it would be interesting to see which one you are using. Post some photos of a new point and a worn one as well if you can.
thanx for the input, i rip in first, the points we use have the lifting eye on them too, maybe they arent cat? im gona try turning it over too, ive been documenting the hrs on each point but i left them in the dozer, and i will get some pics when i get a new one put on. thanx again.
What you need to do with calculating the cost of ripper tips or boots as we call them down under is get a ripper boot that is genuinly worn out on both sides and then weigh it to establish a worn out weight you can then compare with an unworn new boot. The difference is then the useable wear material weight which you can divide that weight by the cost to establish the cost/kg or lb. Then when you are changing boots to early you can by weighing them establish how many $$ you are throwing in the scrap bin each time. With a change in technique you can most likely get a longer life from them and in turn lower the costs. The other thing is perhaps your site changes a lot so don,t throw the half worn stuff out but keep it for the easier material
Please get some photos. If they are a Cat tip the Part Number will be stamped into the tip on the top side of the square "hole" where the tip is installed on the ripper shank. Note that some ripper tips are not reversible, those tips will have the word "bottom" stamped on the bottom side of the hole where the tip is installed on the ripper shank and that's the one and only way they can be installed.
the number is stamped like you said, i just assumed it was cat, thats all they buy is cat. i work in a purely slot dozing setup, the dirt is like nothing you have seen before, it has a 65% swell factor, just hard pressed shale, if you try to grind on it without ripping it , you tear out huge pieces, if you keep up with your ripping, keep a little on top it rips up beautifully, nothing bigger than a basketball, that 11 just eats it up, the way it stacks in and carrys almost too easy. the dirt or rock is black as night. ill get pics.
Out here in Central California we do a bunch of deep ripping for the farmers who want to break up hard pan. We use Ranite D on our ripper points and upper guards. On the tip of the ripper point we use Rantung. It works really good if the ground is really abrasive. If your going to hit rocks or have impact it will knock your hard facing right off. I even hard face my cutting edges to prolong thier life. I've used Stoody 101hc wire and Ranomatic D. I think the Ranite is a little better for abrasion.
Just sharing a little personal experience, I recently rebuilt my corner bits with grouser bar and 8010 rod (I had a bunch of it in 3/16"). I think it's lasting longer than the original and I haven't had any issues with cracking, even getting into some solid rock.
The tungsten ARM sprayed on is the way to go in most abrasive conditions. I have had very good luck with it, and often get triple or more life out of GET with a proper pattern applied. For ripper teeth, a strip down the middle of the top and bottom lets the edge wear away faster than the tip and keeps it sharp longest. I also like to put a crossbar of ARM right below the end of the inner pocket, where the teeth usually wear through. I have had fair luck in moderately hard material, but in extremely hard material, it will tend to break off.
We're still waiting for the OP to post photos of new and worn out ripper tips so we can see what he's actually using.
I used to look after a D475A ripping in a hard clay (shale/granent type of material) we used to run D11 SS rippers x3 in the rear of her.. some sections were very hard while others were soft but the whole lot was quite abrasive, the ARM ones would snap in the harder ground like the guys have mentioned as did the longer penetraction type (with a tapered down point) can't remember the P/N sorry, so we just stuck to the longer CAT chisel type so we could turn them up side down but as they would wear they wouldn't rip the harder ground too well as they werent sharp so I used to get the oxy onto them to give them abit of a point to get some more life outta them.. we used to keep the old blunt ones aside for use with the x3 tynes as they worked the bench after the hard ground was broken up
I agree with JDOFMEMI we also had great luck with tungsten.Went from switching out rippers daily to getting almost a week out of them.
sorry its been so long, they finaly changed the point today , the afternoon boss finaly took the time to watch him rip and changed the point right away, three weeks of waisted diesel for a ripper point. i been on mornings so it was after i left. i looked both sides are identical, i mentioned flipping it over i was told no way, also told me that the ripper wasnt that important i should worry more about dozing, what a joke, i will get pics on mon, computer crappd out too. i was told everyone runs d11 s in this world they dont have trouble making their points last. been a real great couple of weeks, i couldnt even bring myself to stop by the shop to get a serial number off a new one, so i wouldnt run into our topnotch maintenance team, according to them the lifting hook can only go on the top.
While you're shopping for photos try to get a Part Number, or even better a photo of the part number. It might give an idea whether it's a genuine Cat point or a "will fit" made to look like a Cat point.
The part numbe r off the new point is 9w4551
i looked it up on cat , says made to be reversed, what a mistake, after all the arguing i cant believe no one bothered to take 2 min to look it up.
You're correct. 9W-4551 is a short centerline tip and can be installed either way up. It looks like this illustration apart from the tip in the drawing has ARM wear protection on it. If tip breakage is not an issue the part number could be changed for a 9W-4552 which is the same style but in a longer version with more "meat" on it. If you wanted to go the penetration tip route (that style of tip is NOT reversible) the part number would be 6Y-3552 for the longer version. A short penetration tip equivalent to your current 9W-4551 is not available. ARM options for all the above ripper tips are also available. That would slow down tip wear rates but the tips themselves would be more expensive.
thankyou, so much nige, and others for their input also, really frusterating when production suffers due to a ripper point thats worn out. i knew we were missing something, we have had the 11 for 6 years but took the double shank off for the single, they own d 9 and 10s but they all have the one sided point. so in their defense this is new, now that i found out i was right i like management again.
Most ripping operations I've ever seen use the penetration (non reversible) points, but I'm by no means a ripping expert. Whatever point is used a lot depends on the guy in the seat for a ripper to produce.
The reason the point is so important in the material im in is because its just layer after of shale; ive ripped hard white rock to granite, where it actually took skill finding an edge turning to different angles, this stuff is nothing like that, with a good point its just put it in and rip in a straight then your right back to dozing, the amount of fuel a d11 burns when you start backing up because the ripper came out of the ground just to put it back down and try again the efficiency really goes down, you start ripping more than your dozing.
In that case I'd be looking at the longest possible point with the greatest amount of meat on it that you can get because breakage appears not to be an issue. Also I'd go for ARM simply to get more abrasion resistance and keep the point sharper for longer. I think I'd still test centreline (straight - reversible) tips versus penetration (drop-nose, non reversible) tips head to head to see which type rips better and stays sharper for longer. Also there is a new hammerless fixing system called Capsure out for D11 ripper tips. Ask your dealer for details. We don't use the ripper tips but we do use the bucket teeth on large loaders. The system works extremely well. Would a multi shank ripper work better maybe..?
Yair . . . 637slayer . What you mentioned about layers of rock is real interesting. I was on a job where we were ripping layered sandstone and mud-rock with one of the early single tine Kellys on a D9. We were doing okay lifting and busting out in layers and then I put a D8 up the Kellys arse and we more than doubled production. The extra horsepower and traction allowed us to get the tooth under a layer and just rip on down the cut. It was a rough ride on the D8 as some of the slabs peeling out were pretty big. Never seen the likes of it before or since and, as always I'm kicking myself that I never took any pictures. Cheers.
The penetration tip will make a poor operator look that little bit better Nige as it "gets in" to the material easier initially. Keeping it sharp still falls back to the guys technique.