I just read a thread about a komie wa500-6 being better than a cat 980. I spoke to several operators that prefer deere's 650J to cat's d5g. From some threads that I have read I gather that the hitachi large excavators are stronger and faster than the cats. Now I don't see anybody comparing to cat's large dozers. High track might be controversial, but they don't have the final problems of other large dozers. Now I understand that cat makes alot more than dozers, wheel loaders, and excavators, but those three machines take alot of a companies capital. All in all, hows cat, the once complete dominator of everything yellow, doing in a global market place. Are tachauchi's ctls, deere's trackloaders, kommie's redesigned grading dozers, volvo atd's, hatachi's hoes..... beating cat at their own game? Now we all agree that cat sets the standard in parts availability and service, but this is ment to see what everyone thinks of current offerings
If you're going to start an entire poll about it... I'd try to at least spell it correctly: Lose. As for the poll.... I'm probably a bit bias.
Work for them do ya? How slow are things down that way? Up by me they just had a big oil spill that is gonna put a hurt on them....darn epa ointhead
Haha
In my defense... This isn't spellin class, if you can understand what i typed then I have acheived my goal. For instance.... http://dan.hersam.com/2005/01/27/reading-jumbled-letters/ So while I agree that spelling errors should not happen, this is a heavy equipment forum, not a spelling teachers convention...
It's not a 'spelling' error. It's a homophone error.It doesn't convey what is meant. While the brain corrects for misspellings, it usually doesn't correct for homophones (mainly because you 'read it out loud'). Here is a counter point: http://www.mantex.co.uk/samples/spell.htm . (Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.) All of these mean different things: there, their, they're; break,brake; loose, lose, etc. You loosen a bolt with a wrench. You can lose a bolt in your pocket. I'm in P-Town not Joliet, so I don't know much of anything about the spill other than what is on the news.
Wow, talk about derailment!
+1 Yeah they have lost some edge. Most opinions on CAT are of the dealer network and Part's Plus. This Has nothing to do with Machinery. Iam a big fan of Volvo Equipment, The loader's, ADT's and excavator's are on par or even better. (ADT .. they make the BEST!) Now they still own Big Dozer's, Mech Haul truck's and Grader's (Including the "M") They have tried to open new areas but have failed big time. (5K mining tool's and .. Dare i say it??? Electric haul truck's) Problem they have IMO: Huge product line. They make almost every type of heavy equipment .. Take company's like O&K, P&H, and LeT ... They specialize in certain market's and have no real Competitor. Still top 3 overall though
merbston23 Do you know anything about the test stand engines that just "happen" to blow up the same day of the big lay offs?? What about the dozen or so people that walked out their last day in hand cuffs? THAT story didn't make much news!!:beatsme
If your going to make a reply like that, you at least have to give us some details! I would like to hear of these 'events' engines blowing up, people walking out in hand cuffs? Any links to news stories? Perhaps ugly rumors? Please do tell.
Hey merbston23, Are you BIAS...or BIASED?? Everyone makes misteaks...miss-takes...mistakes!
merbston...care to enlighten us? Unless you work at Cat or know someone that works there you didn't (and won't) hear this story on the news.
I'll stick with bias although colloquially biased is used more. Depends if you wanted it as an adjective (having or showing bias or prejudice) or noun (a particular tendency or inclination, esp. one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question; prejudice.) Just the rumors everyone else has probably heard (if you've heard rumors). Union workers given X weeks left. So sabotage all around. (Although I've heard it was just a few guys). Wiring harnesses cut. Paper wadding in cylinders. etc. Here's an article on in: Mossville workers told to go home . Of course they didn't print 'why' but the comments section is entertaining.
Well now that you have us at the edge of our seats, one of you two needs to enlighten us!!
gland dis plase turnd 2 ah spellen bee contess:drinkup May bee I cant spel but I had 80 unuion inployes at 1 tim & dided 5 milion in masonary work in 1987 If we were all perfect how would we know it? Some may dig better and some may spell better, and some may be better mechanics.
Hey merbston, If you're gonna have a dig at Stumpy,you also need to learn when it's your turn to be corrected.The word you needed in your sentence was BIASED. Maybe you should've just let it go at the start...:Banghead Speedpup,yer dead right...the average HEF earthmover has a wealth of knowledge to be shared,& good grammer aside,is usually worth listening to.:drinkup No more O.T rubbish from me...
This thread is somewhat amusing: ...but there is no need to bring sexual orientation into it :cool2 We'll try and keep it on track from now on. I suspect though, the original question has answers that are based as much on opinion (subjective) as they are on experience. My local Cat dealer can be a pain..but if you keep at it they will come through eventually. And its when things go wrong that the...proof is in the pudding...so to speak. I thought Cat was losing the plot 18 years ago when Hitachi started landing some of their 20-35 tonne excavators here. There is a hell lot of good loaders out there on the market these days. I'm not sure about the first choice in the poll though. If it means purely machine performance then I'm well past that, for I think the operator is far more important than some "breakout force" figures. For me its more a question of 1) will it do the job safely and efficiently, 2.) who's going to fix it and how long does it take to get parts 3.) will it last. I saw one guy here who had an obviously legitimate and serious warranty claim with a US made (not Cat) piece of machinery. The dealer tried to make him pay for the freight of the parts???.
If I was on thin ice and it breaks and I go through when I am yelling help I will not be asking who can spell help !
Yep Speedpup, thin ice......lets get this one back on track Ok
Never owned a CAT except meow meows so I can't say but from the outside they always seemed tops to me.
Homophone is not a sexual reference. You can look up the definition. Seems to me Cat has been riding on its name for so long all the other manufacturers have been able to produce superior or equal products in some cases. Doesnt mean Cat stuff is junk. Just overpriced IMHO, as there are many competitors out there offering equal or better equipment for lower prices.
Not being in the industry we hear a lot of things.... but I heard a large part of the Cat 'advantage' is the dealer net work and support. Which is one reason why (I was told) we were going into the AC truck business. Right now there are 3 large components: The truck, the engine and the electric drive. All 3 come from different companies and if something goes wrong it's never their fault. With the Cat AC trucks everything is owned by Cat. If something goes wrong, there's one person to call.
In some ways I think Cat has lost their superior product advantage but every company has their "best products". I'm sure it is well known I am not a Cat guy, I grew up in Deere country. For backhoes I am stuck between John Deere/Case, for excavators I will take a John Deere. Small dozers I still think Deere kills Cat. Once you get into big dozers, big trucks, big loaders and track loaders Cat rules the roost. I worked for a company who had a primarily (95%) Cat fleet and it was Cat for a reason. The dealership was behind them most of the time, they do have a good product line and we all know they have the largest product line by far. Yes it does seem like they have been getting a bit lazy lately. But you can't make the best of everything can you?
Around here its all komatsu and deere.
I can only comment on their skid steers, that's the only machine I've got a lot of time in and have run various brands. In my opinion, the Cat's are the most user friendly and the pilot controls are the most precise of any I've run. My machine has turned out to be very reliable having gone down only twice in 1800 hours, once to a self-inflicted wound and the other due to weather conditions. The fuel solenoid I fried cost me just over $200, the plugged breather tube a couple hours labor. Not bad operating expenses.
That's bad, I see you are from Cats home state
if i were buying, i would buy cat large dozers, graders, track loaders and scrapers. their hoes, combo's, loaders, small dozers, trucks and rollers are not the best choice, in my humble operators opinion. their service got a little too cocky in the early 90's and that hurt them around here.
It sometimes takes Cat a long time to get a machine right. I know. I did a lot of development on Cats in the 80's and 90's while working for contractors and dealers, and eventually some of those ideas became incorporated into Cat equipment. The external engine shut-off on scrapers was developed by a friend of mine while working on a project in New Jersey in 1987. The current D8 fuel tanks are a take off of modified tanks I had made in Colorado in 1990 or 91. The lubricated crawler frame hard bar bearings came from work done in mines I worked at in Kentucky in 1984/85. I worked with factory engineers on D10 and D9L brake spring and seal problems while I was working at a Cat house in 1981. Cat picks up on these solutions to actual problems and does incorporate them, as do all other manufacturers. It just seems to take Cat longer, but maybe it's due to their size. I had the first 16G on a job in Wyoming in 1974. The current model resembles it in size, but little else. We made all kinds of suggestions to Cat for it. Same with Cat scrapers. Current Cat haul trucks would make drivers of 1980's models slobber all over themselves. But all these changes take time to evaluate, redesign and engineer, cost out, then put into production. Everyone knows that Cat makes constant changes, just look at a parts book for nearly any one of their machines and see all the serial number breaks. Every one represents some change in a number of parts changed, added, or deleted. All for what seemed a good reason at the time. I remember when a 988 loader parts book was a half inch thick. The last one I saw for that same model was nearly three inches thick. Cat has suffered from being the most copied machines on the planet. I watched Japanese engineers do everything but dismantle a new D10 at the ConExpo show in Houston in 1980. You never saw such a blizzard of little guys jabbering away whilst measuring, writing notes, and taking close-up photos of every inch of that machine. It looked like a handful of night crawlers writhing around that D10. But they did it to everyone's equipment at the show. The Japanese modeled many of their machines around Cat's during the 80's and 90's. They could hardly be told apart without the different paint schemes. Worst thing is, they made just enough changes so that they couldn't be gone after for patent infringement. I guess the point is, there isn't a whole lot of innovation coming out of anywhere else excepting the very small excavators and articulated trucks. Competitors of Cat do some things very well, but they are never very far ahead of Cat, and once Cat makes a commitment to production of something, they support the critter to the end and then some. That's where Cat really shines, that and the fact that Cat's will last an awful long time even with poor maintenance. I’m not saying that Cat hasn’t made some mistakes over the years I’ve been around them. But after they realize that mistake, they do a pretty good job recovering from it. So, I may seem a bit biased myself, but I’d vote for Cat for the long haul. In fact, I did in the little poll running here.
I don't have a dog in this fight as I have only ran a few machines, mostly Cat while doing various work at MacAllister Rental Stores in Indy. I can say that I thought they were fine machines, but again, having nothing to compare them to it doesn't say much.
Well put. Cat does strive to improve on their designs. The pace could be faster but a company that size with a product line that alrge does have to think things through and it takes time to implement changes.
It's been a couple years away from Cat Excavators for me, but it seems the competition may have elevated it's product as well as Cat may have been a bit stagnant. The computer technology in todays excavators for example where all you have to do is scroll up a hammer point and suddenly the hydraulic flow is on target for that implament as opposed to a plate compactor is mind boggling to us older operators. Cat seemed ahead of the pack in that technology, but now most of the others have the same easy touch screen technology. Cuts in staff, todays economy....they all add up even to a giant like Cat.
One would assume the length of time to change something has to do with redundancy in the line up. Im sure there are a lot of parts that interchange from a multitude of machines. It would take time to engineer and study a change that affects multiple machines. Cat makes good iron. Its hard to beat their large dozers, scrapers, graders, and track loaders. Deere has taken a shot with their graders and rebadged track loaders. In my opinion, it comes down to having the right brand for your application. Volvo makes one hell of an excavator. As long as it is in the dirt. We had problems with undercarriage wear on volvos in Demo. Most of our work was on concrete. Our Cat machines outlasted the volvo uc by nearly twice the amount of hours.
I don't think Cat really ever had an advantage in performance over any other machine. What I have seen is they outlast every other manufacturer when used in comparable jobs. You can put a Cat wheel loader and any other manufacturers wheel loader doing the same thing in the same place with comparable maintenance practices and the Cat will generally be working long after the competitor is gone. You can put a small Cat dozer in the same situation with any other manufacturer and again it will generally outlast the competitor. I'm sure there are exceptions. Articulated haul trucks might be one. On the other hand no one has ever made a better grader than Cat. No one has ever made a better scraper than Cat and no one has ever made a better straight frame haul truck. I have heard a lot of people over the years point out very good machines from other makes. However those makes are now gone and Cat is still here. The other way of looking at this question is to ask of all the people looking at a machine to purchase, how many look a Cat first and then settle for something else?
Ah well I agree and disagree with you John. Your reply could give Foundation to the original question asked by the topic starter. Back in the day there equipment outlasted any other and alot of the equipment still does .. But not as much as before. I base my opinion's on Current equipment and from a repairman's point of view .. Mostly Mining. I hold the opinion that CAT have built up a Great Customer Base and have become a little complacent toward's sale's. Dealer Networking is half the battle and from my perspective they have let the customer down in that area recently. I agree they make the Best Larger Dozer, Grader, Scraper (Yuk) and Mech hauler's. Where they have lost out is with ADT's, Loader's and excavator's tho they still sell them by the boat load, This might be due to the fact company's like to keep one branded equipment on site. Another Consideration is the price of CAT equipment, As a General rule CAT Dump trucks cost 1/3rd more than an equivalent truck.
As someone that sells against them every day in the medium sized equipment 75-250 horsepower range I can say it has gotten easier. Even dare I say Motor Graders have gotten easier to sell against. Deere has made some serious strides with their motor graders in the past five years trying to make them as much like Caterpillars as possible. In my opinion they now make a grader more like a Caterpillar than Caterpillar. Things that Cat stressed for so long such as big cubic inch engines, weight, horsepower, Torque, control pattern, Mid mount Scarifier and Big Cab. Yes they copy each other,some of you know Deere was the first to make a all hydraulic articulated motor grader. The first to have all wheel drive on a motor grader, and look at the new Cat K Crawlers a D6K looks and runs almost just like a 700J Deere. I just dont remember hearing about the problems with quality at Cat a few years ago. Most assume that because its a Caterpillar it automaticly has the best resale and the best market share, while that is true in bigger equipment it certainly is not true in alot of the size range I sell in. Back to Motor Graders, Five years ago Cat held such a lead that Deere I think seriously considered getting out of that buisness but decided in the end they just need to build a machine that would compete with it ,and have since then cut that lead in half and also close the gap somewhat in resale value. I am not saying that we dont have our share of problems too because we do, I am saying as somone that has been in this buisness for 26 years ( just a pup compared to some of you I know) I have been around and seen somethings change and I like the direction it's going. I think Deere is building some of the best equipment it has ever built, and if Caterpillar is slipping or lost its superior product edge as the thread ask's, I hope to be here to "Cat"ch my fair share of the buisness.
See g model, haulp-pak, insleyboy and other are seeing the same thing I am. From 1960 - 1990. If you wanted to beat cat, you did it with the price gun. Now its being done with the price gun and the machine. Some of it might be that case, deere, and the rest of the manufacturers stepped it up 3 notches, while cat stepped up one. Maybe its because of cats drive to make everything on the construction site. It takes alot of capital to start a backhoe line, especially in an already ultra competitive marketplace. The same with other lines. Cat had to have skidsteer, but case's 1845c's & other very good units were already there. Did the money spent there take away from the r&d of their existing offerings?
Cat continues to improve on all of its products, although sometimes not as fast as we would like. They have done a pretty good job of listening to the customers and incorperating the feedback into machine improvements. Cat has had a dominant edge in most of their core products for many years, and mostly the other manufacturers would add a little more horsepower or some features to get an edge at least on paper over the competing Cat machine. It was always Cat that has been the benchmark. No competing company compares their product to anything but the Cat. That alone speaks volumes. Now, what we have is a time where all of the competition has stepped up and built better and better machines, and in every product line except scrapers and large dozers, someone builds a product that will match up very well to the comperable Cat. Even large dozers, the Komatsu models are getting closer. In graders, Deere and Volvo match up well. In small dozers Deere pretty well leads the pack. With backhoes, look at Case and Deere, loaders Deere has stepped up, and Komatsu is right there too. Excavators have always been a Cat weakness, although the current ones are aa good as any, Komatsu and Hitachi are the ones to beat, and Volvo has a good lineup also In ADT's, Volvo has and continues to lead the way There are far more product lines, and in each line, there are a couple of worthy competitors who perform as good as a Cat, and usually cost less as well, but for a total product line, Cat is still the one to beat. The number one reason is product support. It does not matter how much better the performance is of brand "X", if you can't get the parts and service quickly when its needed, it is no good. Even in the service department, most of the other players are improving their game. Cat is still maintaining their position, and it would be very hard to beat the distribution network Cat has built over many years. All in all, I say they still have the edge, but the game is a little closer now than it ever has been. I still look to Cat to be the dominant equipment maker for the forseeable future.
I wanted to comment on the poll results so far. Just a moment ago, the poll was 55% for either Cat's losing ground or isn't better or worse than the rest of the companies. Effectively, I would summarize this by offering a two-choice poll: Are Caterpillar's products still commensurate with their market share? 1) Yes. 2) No. With the majority of people saying no -- or even with 50% of its user-base saying no -- I think Cat has got to realize that not everything is peachy. It's hard to gauge the level of satisfaction that users will have -- begin pointing out issues with a product and more people will start to question those issues, just because now they are aware of them -- and certainly Cat having the most product out there will suffer the most scrutiny. That's why rephrasing the question the way I did -- if it's a valid way to rephrase -- is so chilling. Cat's executive leadership should realize that a customer base that is 50/50 about the advantages of a certain product is not solid and suggests that there may be serious consequences down the line. Most people here know which side of the Cat line I stand on. I've been watching the construction equipment industry closely for the past fifteen years -- over half my age -- and even though I have no direct involvement with iron on a day-in, day-out basis, my thoughts about Cat have been pretty strong and pretty consistent (and vocal).
Cat also owns the wheel excavator market. Every operator up my way would definately take a M318 anyday.
One thing you guys have not picked up on is the amount of hassle the average Cat dealer gets from Cat,this is probably why there are so many service and warrenty issues these days. One thing that annoys me is the "Cut me in half and see the cat yellow the whole way through" attitude of a lot of people-someone spoke earlier of Cat taking a long time to solve problems maybe this is why? No point in rushing about spending dollars in R&D if the customers are stupid eneogh to put up with things because its a Cat. And before anybody accuses me of being anti-Cat ,I run Cat machines but they are chosen for the job need etc Neil
I've always been a CAT guy. I have a couple thousand hours in the larger dozers, 8s, 9s, and D10s. Until I ran a new D155 Komatsu. What a machine and was I surprised. I don't think it's any better than a new D8T, but it's right there with it. Same with excavators. The newer Deere(Hitachi) and the Komatsu stuff is pretty impressive. Like someone stated earlier, Volvo wins the ADT market hands down. The 980G loader is the BEST wheel loader ever built. Plain and simple. The Deere J series is really good. I even like the newer Kawasaki loaders after being able to spend some time on them. CAT isn't what it used to be. OK, maybe they are, but every other manufacturer has stepped it up. Not such a big gap anymore. And in some cases, the gap goes the other way now.
A large dirt moving company in my neck of the woods used to run all Cat equipment but now has been going with Deere hoes and graders and Volvo arctic trucks with no dealers of any make here. Just my 2cents worth.
The wheeled excavator market is a weird market. Look how long John Deere was one of the only manufacturers offering the 495D and 595D for people through the 90's when Cat, Case, Volvo and everyone else had abandoned their lines. Then in the early 2000's Deere abandoned their's as well. Then Cat, NH, Volvo and some other companies all got a big push for their wheeled models and Deere had to step back into the game... funny how things go. But if you try out a new Deere wheeled excavator you will be impressed. I tried out an M318 their nice, but I think the Deere model has them hands down. I was at the Heavy Equipment show in Toronto the other day. I got talking to some Deere and Cat guys and they both told me that a lot of the engineers in both companies have been working on engines to try and make the Tier 4 stuff. Some of the other machines have been getting neglected because they have to scramble to make emissions on their engines.
Cat 3512 Engines Looking for information on 3512 engine maintenance in a mine haul truck application. Chronic problems in the top end or other. Engine life, mid life maintenance, component life. Any information appreciated. Thanks. Cam
For 60 plus years my grandpa ran IH/Dresser dozers and although many many time the CAT man was down and even tried out a number over the years he always went with the IH and the Dresser(both 15C's both have over 23K hours on them). I've not the time on machines as many(only 25 years old) but I'd rather run my 15C over the D6H series 2 we have(company I now work for bought some of our equpiment). We did have a 312 CAT excavator which after 7000 hours of hard use is ready to be down the road but it was always running when we needed it. In 10 years of owning it we replaced bucket bushings, some hoses, head gasket, undercarriage, front seal, and re built all the cylinders. Not too bad at all for 7000 hours. The only other comparable size excavators I have run were all rentals. My main machine I run now is a Komatsu PC220LC-6 excavator with 5600 hours on it. I enjoy running it however I have looked over the records from the time they bought the machine and WOW it has a VERY thick file(granted one was an issue with some metal going through the entire hyd system and had to take the entire house off of the machine. But in talking with my boss he seems convinced that the larger series excavators that CAT is not on the forefront and is very willing to go to another Komatsu. He is the boss and then one with the money so I suppose I'll run what he brings me. I think when it really comes down to it is kinda the ford chevy thing. Some people have great luck with one brand and stick with it and others dont' so they change. They ALL must be doing somewhat good otherwise they would have not been in business this long. Trbo
Product edge We've owned our share of Cat equipment over the years.In the early eighties,they were the only way to go-but not in every case.Even today they lag in some area's.Their dedication to research/development and product support is industry leading and doubt if any other manufacturer can claim that.Are the machines superior to other makes is debatable.Are the newer generation as durable as the older series machines-well,personally the jury is still out on this one.They have yet to produce a real good sewer/watermain excavator since they stopped production of the 235/245's. We have a 345CL and a couple 330DL's.While they do a decent day's work and are handy with the quick attach and different buckets,they seem lacking in proper balance and power.We added 5000 lbs. of additional counterweight to the 330's to stop them from wanting to nose dive into the trench.The 345 is a good machine,but we always used Link-Belt 5800's in that size prior to that.In 1993 we bought a new 5800C2 and it would give the 345 a run for it's money anyday when pulling a double stacked trench box or setting heavy structures and pipe.Would like to try out a new LX460 to see hoe it would compare. Dominion
I question whether they ever had it.............
CAT is still the king, but Deere is fast catching up and there are many other good equipment makers out there as well.
Cat's Golden year's was from 1965 - 1985
I would still put them in the top 3, but there is several other hot on there heels.
Since I'm new and can't start a new thread, this looked like as good a place as any to ask for your thoughts. I'm looking to purchase a new excavator. I'm specifically looking at a Cat 336DL or a Volvo EC 360C. Set up with a hyd. thumb and some additional equip. they are about $25k apart. The Cat obviously being pricier. Any thoughts on these two machines? I currently own both Volvo and Cat equipment.
I own a volvo ec240 and it is a very good machine. For my application it works great, but for a fleet operator, it may not be the one to buy. I own this unit simply because on the used market its cheapest. As a farmer CATs are out of the question simply because they hold their value like nothing else. Right now foreign buyers are scooping CAT equipment like crazy, purely because of service support. CAT certainly has done that right internationally. After that, Hitachi, Komatsu, Kobelco, seem to hold their value well. For some reason the volvos just don't bring a good price in the used market in North America. Great machine but if resale matters, the volvo will cost you. Just my opinion.... One other thing, I am told that outside North America, DEERE is virtually unheard of. Ritchie Bros move a lot of DEERE to continental buyers, but you rarely see them where international buyers are bidding. From what i understand, DEERE has a huge problem right now with a pile of unsaleable used machines as NA companies dump iron. Again, just my opinion and what i've heard...
Watglen, I agree with you about the value of used cat equipment. There seems to be a big gap between cat and everyone else. That is probably the only reason I'm considering the Cat as it is about $30k more than the Volvo. The Volvo appears superior operationaly and with respect to fuel consumption. I have one lone Komatsu in our fleet. It's a 2003 PC300lc-7 with about 5300 hours. I was looking to trade this machine on either the Cat or Volvo. Either the used equipment market is extremely bad or the Komatsu does not hold value very well. I have been offered $45k for it on trade. I can probably get them a little higher, but it still seems pretty weak.
Dealers are sitting on a pile of used right now, and don't want any more sitting around. So the best deals in history are on use machines right now. That $45K is likely about right for current conditions. I would seriously consider picking up something nearly new at auction. There are piles of repossessed machines out there, low hour, really clean. Check out Ironplanet.com. They do a really good job with thier auctions. Ironplanet has a relationship with Volvo credit, so you find quite a few going through that site. I would get something good used, sit on your pc300 till the the market improves, you'll likely move into that newer machine even money. Interest on $45000 is a bit over $100/month, and in three years you'll spend about $4000 holding it. It'll bring at least that much more 3 years from now i would expect. Current market conditions represent a fantastic opportunity to renew fleets, or expand fleets, for those who have the capital. Plus you'll have 2 units to bid on the next big highway project if it comes along
That's good advice. I think I will take a look at some used low hour machines for comparison. Additionally, we will probable keep the PC 300. We are the original owner and the machine is in decent shape. I'll keep you posted.
I like Cat and have ran my fair share. Recently ran a kamotsu 200 excavator a little and it seemed to be pretty nice. Like new hoallnd skid steers or the older ASV ( haven't been on a later model with pilot controls ). I like the 420 D and E in backhoes never had a chance to really run a case yet and the controls are backwards, lol. Did notice recently Cat is aware of there price model and is taking steps in other countries to try to take market share. There are a few articles out recently on this. http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200908100750DOWJONESDJONLINE000124_FORTUNE5.htm I'll be willing to bet though that finding this equipment or part is the us will be very dificult for a while once it roles out. As it would likely undermine there existing market.
Ofcourse its always a matter of opinion. My opinion is that they dont have the best products, but they do have the best product support and parts system. The biggest problem is all the CAT dealers have their heads up their asses thinking that everyone should be thankfull to have CAT techs on their jobsite. One brand my shop is a dealer for is Sennebogen material handlers, which the "C" models have CAT engines. Even though the engines are under CAT warranty and the local dealers are paid back for their time by CAT they have told our customers multiple times that they need to wait three weeks for a service call.
I want to speak my peace on this topic. First of all we have an oilfield construction business and are very hard on equipment. We have run only Cat for 30 years. We run 8 D6R's we run our dozers hard and run 2,500 to 3,000 hrs a year(highest hour dozer 16,000 lowest 1,200.) Last year I bought a Komatsu D65EX-15 and have been thrilled. Main reason is I was sick of getting screwed by our local Cat dealer on service work and they act like they don't give a crap about customers. I bought a D6T at the same time, kind of a test......the Cat $327,000 the Komatsu $248,000.......Lot of difference in my book and the Komatsu had 0% finacing for 3 yrs. Cat was around %3 for 3 yrs. Some will say resale is lower, but there is something to be said about the oppourtunity cost of my money. In other the difference in price initially and the interest on roughly $30K for 3 yrs. When it is all said and done and fully depreciated, you get the sam proportionately out of the Komatsu. Cat has a great parts network I agree, but they still seem to not stock what seems to be fairly common. On the other hand the Komatsu dealer doesn't have some parts, but they seem to be eager to please and will jump thru hoops to help out. Cat has been top dog for too long and has overlooked customers and concentrated on marketing.....Smoke and mirrors can be tempting, but I chose to look at it from a financial standpoint and the bottom line is it makes sense to me. Time will tell, but so far I have not touched the D65 and have had a major oil leak and a rail link issue with the D6R (same hrs).
hello
I don't know I have the same dilemma I'm between a 1993 CAT 120g or a 2002 DEERE 770ch(more power and bigger) , the price is the same, but the machine is for export, and where i live is very easy to find CAT parts but it take about a week to find some DEERE parts, the machine is for road construction. witch one do you think it would do a better job, a old CAT that is easy to find parts or a newer DEERE that you might have some trouble finding some parts but it would broke less because is newer ????????
Honestly, If You Want My Opinion On Things. I Think That Whatever Gets The Job Done On Time And Right Is A Good Machine...
Cat is a bit overrated.....but not when it comes to resale.