We currently run a fleet that is all CAT equipment. Which has become a logistical nightmare to make repairs due to their proprietary software that prevents clearing certain faults unless your a dealer. We have made the decision to move away from CAT for this reason. Can anyone offer feedback on any of the other major players in the industry who don't prevent their customers from making repairs despite shelling out thousands for their software and interfaces?
Can you reveal the company you work with? I myself don’t deal with new equipment nor ever expect to anymore but as far as I knew JD had already been cautioned about. I didn’t realize Cat was into this also. When I was dealing with Cat, with new and near new leases and rental and some new purchases, Cat left a bad taste in my mouth over certain RTR issues and maintenance intervals, along with monitoring our equipment from afar that didn’t gel with our production. One particular incident, involving a Cat RR 350 that the computer took a crap on the throttle position sensor. I jury rigged a cable, that let the operator continue, after calling Cat and they couldn’t get out to the job, for 3 days. The next day, I got a call from a Cat lightweight, that informed me, that if I continued running that machine, it would void our warranty. I explained that the governor was still operating as well as the ECM part of it for the safeties. I questioned how they knew and he said It was hooked up to their satellite or some other crap, then I informed him they better get out faster as I absolutely needed it. They were there in 2 hours.
Yes, all newer CATS have telematics installed. We actually like this feature for our use, its a huge help. However it doesn't outweigh having to wait several days for a field tech to come out to clear faults when we made repairs or truck it to their facility to clear faults. We lose thousands of dollars in production time when this happens. Its not worth the hassle. We voice our displeasure to CAT but it falls on deaf ears when your only a multi million dollar business talking to a multi billion dollar business.
If you think cat is bad your probably going to find something out. If you talking about password generators they can be had but under alot of case if you fix the problem and make the code go inactive it can hang out and not cause a problem. Cat also has the best parts supply out of anyone. Lossing a few days till the cat man shows hurts youll find it hurts worse when its weeks or months because parts cant be gotten. Perhaps you need a resident mechanic on your site if the down time is killing you that bad or a good independent wrench. Do what you like i dont think a change of brand will do you much good long term.
In regard to Cat diagnostics. Is there anything preventing your company getting a Customer version of ET and/or a subscription to online SIS.? TBH any customer who gives their dealer a fair wad of business every year might even get the subscriptions free.
That's the question I was going to ask. We are a small business but our dealer is always there to listen and help when we need them.
X3 on customer ET/SIS. With the drilling fleet there was rarely a need for the dealer. It was usually an update or something deeper into the machine that needed a password to change. Now I have used a friends computer with bootleg ET and a PW generator. That was a fun learning experience.
Whole lot of dealer level software available out there if you have a guy that wants to learn it. You're going to run into the same issue no matter what brand you want to switch to at this point.
On top of that if you same get komatzu loaders and deere dozer and kubota excavators not you have 3 sets of software to obtain and learn the ins and outs of. If its all cat you only have one and it is much easier to get be it from a dealer or otherwise.
One of the reasons we run all Cat.
Web search “repair secrets.” Lots of info on that YouTube channel.
This is the future. It’s been here a while allready and I don’t like it,but nothing much to be done about it.JD seem to be at the top of the hate list so I’m told.
John C! Where have you been? or have I just missed your posts?
I follow the site far less frequently now days. I seldom post unless I see something that might cost someone piles of cash. Most times I start a conversation directly with the OP to provide input. I do respond to conversation requests and make every effort to provide info and help if I am able.
Well I’m glad to see you around. I appreciate your experience.
We have ET, however it wont let us clear level 3 emissions faults without their super secret squirrel codes.
Fair point and something we are trying to avoid. We prefer to stay with one flavor of anything we run in the fleet. If we change brands for a our dirt equipment it would all go to that brand as we phased out the older. But from the feedback ive recieved so far its sounding like we may just be locked in to never truly "owning" our equipment no matter who we go with.
Anything less than Level 3 can be cleared without factory passwords. Maybe maintenance/operating practices need to be looked at to avoid machines going into limp mode frequently.?
That stuff is mandated by government regulations not CAT for clearing the level three emissions faults and derates And even if you had the factory password access if the fault isn’t fixed it comes immediately right back. That’s how it’s going to work for everybody.
I understand the gooberments fingers involved in the mandated emissions but never heard the claim that gooberment is also mandating factory lockouts from completing repairs for level 3 emission faults. When our onroad(none of which run CAT engines) tier 4 diesels go into derate for emissions faults we are able to make the repairs and clear the faults without using factory diagnostics. The only place we experience it is on our dirt equipment.
No doubt!!! Unfortunately, this is like herding cats for some reason where I work. Being we have been attempting to alter those exact things for the last 5 years to mitigate the issues with zero success, we in the shop have given up on that avenue. Which is why I wanted to reach out on here for feedback on if we went to a different flavor of dirt equipment if that would help us avoid the trips to the stealerships and road techs coming out as we want to be able to take care of 100% of repairs in house.
This is what our dealer and a field service tech told us as well.
According to AI it sounds like they lied to you, the EPA requires the tier 4 systems as well as the derate to force repairing the system but does not require factory set passwords to clear faults once repairs are made, that is determined by the equipment manufacturers. However there is a provision that requires factory level tools to BYPASS emissions which is against the law anyways and not the question at hand. We are making the repairs, but not able to clear the faults out unless a dealer does so. Likely this type of misinformation is disseminated to customers to remove the heat from the brands that choose to go this route and lock customers into them for some service requirements.
Full access to the software was a high priority on my list when buying new. I ended up with new CASE machines last year and bought their software and license for my mechanic. He says he could access everything after using it. We never got to the point of repairs though before selling those machines. This year I now have primarily Liebherr machines and again bought the software and license for my mechanic and he tells me he can access everything on this brand as well after exploring the software extensively since December weeks.
Thank you for providing feedback on the question that was posed.
Is most of your problems emissons related?
Is there nobody at the dealer who you can send the password request to and they can generate the codes for you?
Sounds like you need to develop a relationship with the Technical Communicator at your Cat dealer. My password requests have always been granted and usually in a very timely manner as they know I’m always impatiently waiting. A good PSSR and a relationship with the TC is the key to a successful relationship with the cat dealer.
I'd be looking for a brilliant computer engineer/ assembly programmer to help design what is needed to over come the proprietary crap. Maybe a fed up former cat ecu/ module specialist? All this electronic crap was a godsend to all the companys in all industries. Can you still buy a toaster that has no electronic circuit boards in it?
We installed a new radiant tube heater and it failed just after the warranty expired. The manufacturer did help diagnose that it was a bad gas valve. Pulled it apart to see what was defective. I mean it's just a coil and a valve. Well this valve had a freaking chip in it! For what I don't know. Purchased an old style and no problems since.
I thought all this RTR stuff went to the Supreme Court and OEMs like JD were forced to make factory software available. Not that I could afford it, but I thought that's how it panned out. I guess not?
We as customers arent allowed access to the TC's. I've asked and was told they were for assisting dealer techs only.
TCs also deal with larger customers. It's part of their job description.
We must not be "large" enough then. Its really a mute point though. Its a matter of do we really even own this equipment if we are locked into the OEM for repairs?? We are getting ready to send field service out to look at a 420XE because the digital cluster wont let us access any menus on it. First step to repair "update flash files" NOTE: customer level ET cannot perform this function.
I didn't find it. Seems their search is getting worse these days. Can you provide anything to get me closer?
I’ll send you a link through conversation in the morning.
Could you shoot me the link as well. I tried to find it but couldn't come up with anything.
Me too, thanks John
Try this, let me know if it doesn't work. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9ZtvgWG-EtmGZhvtMeBMEQ/videos