Hey everyone, I have a cat 320d serial kgf 00768 that recently started giving some problems , operator shut off for lunch one day and it refused to start . Tumbled for about 30 sec before it started .Since then on on morning where it used to start in half tumble its takes about 10 sec before it starts. When it heats up it will not start without the help of a spray of quick start. The machine is throwing no codes and I've checked for bubbles in the return line, even tried plugging it to see if it's air or a plugged check valve. What pressure do I need to see for the machine to start ? How can I rule out if it's fuel pump or injectors? Sorry if it's a long read I'm just trying to cover everything .
Have you changed out the fuel filters and put air into the fuel tank with an air blower nozzle into tank and holding back 1PSI of pressure with a rag ball over opening of tank. Disconnect the furthest the fuel line runs then try again and see if fuel rushes out of line. Have you blown air back into tank. Maybe your filter housing is partially plugged in an elbow by dead flies or who knows what. Try something and let us know. Simon C
What you’re likely going to need to do here is get an ET connection to the machine and record actual vs desired rail pressure when cranking. You very likely have an injector or multiple injectors that are dumping high pressure fuel.
Thanks ,will do that tomorrow , when you say dumping ,is it bypassing via the seals ?
No, internal part of the injector is sticking open allowing high pressure fuel to leak into the return.
Shiv, just be aware that the lines from the rail to the injectors are (allegedly according to the manufacturer) single use only. If you remove one you’re supposed to replace it with a new one. So if you do have a bad injector you want to make double sure you know which one it is before you start disassembling stuff.
Let's go basic. The circled drain plug MUST have the thumbwheel flush with the water bowl boss. I've changed many when they won't thread all the way in. Secondly, the seal ring the arrow is pointing to must be present and I've also seen two in there. With out the ring present, it'll give the same symptoms as listed above, yet not really leak. Also, hours on your machine aren't listed. How many hours on machine? Have you drained the water and such from the fuel tank? What came out?
Tamk sediment and water drain.
Ok machine is doing 12800hrs all filters were changed about 3 weeks ago by me and tank is drained once or twice a week ,the sediment filer is clean , haven't tried pressuring the tank yet .tomorrow I'll walk with my laptop and get the readings both when it's hot and cold
Did see a collapsed fuel line on a truck with 8000 hours this winter that took a while to diagnose. It would run perfect for 1 hour and then all hell would break loose. If they are original consider changing them. Will have to eventually one day anyways, But handy to see pressure drop when problems happen. Simon C
So all tests points to injectors so I'm in the process of ordering in a set of injectors and lines, is there a washer like the 3126 as I'm only seeing a o ring seal part number 294 1803 and a gasket 1r 6573? Also is the 326 4756 injector been replaced with any newer numbers ? Thanks for the info in advance .
What's referred to as the "gasket" 1R-6573 is actually a copper washer. I would check your injector Part Numbers physically before ordering. I see two Part Numbers, 326-3756 & 326-4700, and they don't appear to cross over from one to the other. Whichever one it is there is nothing any newer as regards Part Number. 12k+ hours on original injectors is pretty good IMO.
Based on your serial number, you have an engine arrangement of 305-4776 which uses injector PN: 295-9130 which updates to a 326-4700 which has a reman option of 10R-7675 gasket/seal numbers you listed are correct.
I suggest to double check that with the engine S/N plate details.
When changing injectors do I need to input the trim files found stamped on the injector?mechanic kno2s what he is doing but I'm asking for my own information
That is the correct way to do it, yes.
While putting in trim files, be sure to download the entire product status configuration? files. My 320DLRR at 6k hours decided to forget everything, especially joystick button configurations for the auxiliaries. I was fortunate enough to have the download data from a previous service visit. Without the download, it would've taken forever to program the configurations back in, and, they probably wouldn't all be correct. I'm told Caterpillar doesn't have that info saved anywhere.
Excellent advice. Before touching anything download a complete Product Status Report. Then download another one when whatever service work has been done is completed. It's a coin toss whether all the info would be there, or even be the correct info. Should be in TMI but don't bank on it.
Forgive my noobiness since this is my first injector change with this excavator , previous ones were 3176 but the product status is found under configuration in ET?
I think it's in the Status section of ET as part of the drop-down menus. Either way it won't be that hard to find because there aren't that many menu options. IIRC it's titled "download Product Status Report" or something like that. It is the option to download a PSR as an Adobe pdf file. The complete PSR could easily run to 10 pages. The automatic file naming is somewhat clunky, we used to change the name to the machine Serial Number and the date. Don't forget that if you change 6 injectors you're going to need 6 new injector lines as well.
I already ordered it , u don't want to see the bill. Tomorrow I'll be picking up the parts
So when I do download the product status .. do I just compare and change what is on there or just re-upload the old one?
It's not like a "copy configuration" file that you can download from an ECM that you are replacing to the laptop via ET then re-upload to a brand-new (blank) ECM. The PSR is nothing more than an Adobe pdf file that contains ALL the information for ALL the ECMs on the machine in one place. So if in the future something happens and one or more ECMs lose their "memory settings" (e.g. all the injector E-Trim numbers disappear for some reason) you have a document that will enable you to manually re-program each parameter on the Config screen of the particular ECM manually using ET and the information contained in the PSR. As HMC commented earlier the factory don't keep that data any more, as a customer you're now expected to do it for yourself. Try downloading the PSR and you'll see what I mean. None of the above is a short-cut to installing the E-Trim files for the replacement injectors. You'll still have to do that manually a cylinder at a time.
thanks for the responses guys , i gathered that much about the trim files ,just i am a bit more prepared when its being changed. today im collecting the parts and going down to the machine ,will update as it goes by.
Nige, et al....I am observing all this from the sideline. I have a 2006 CAT 320CL. The CAT mechanic a few months ago flashed my ECM as part of a service call and it would not "reset"...as a result, CAT replaced my ECM (free to me) and got me going again. Do I need to copy any files off the ECM such as trim files, PSR? Or am I even able to access those files? I have the impression that only CAT personnel can access the ECM. Suggestions?
Gary you would need Cat ET to be able to access the ECMs and download a copy of the PSR. Shiv has the advantage over you because he has a fleet of machines and access to ET.
Hey guys update time , we got to the machine and the mechanic decided to do some more in depth checks before diving into the injectors , we checked rail pressure and was only getting up to 1700 psi with spikes of 2400psi, disconnected the rail and connected the Guage to the high pressure pump and was seeing pressures of 6000psi and up ,we then checked the pressure relief valve we found some debris so cleaned that up and the rail (I'll replace soon) we then reconnected and checked pressures ,same values ,the mechanic put the pressure Guage on the number 6 cylinder and we started to progressively blank the rest of the lines and after we did 2 the pressure shot up to 3000psi which led us to believe more was leaking off. Changed the injectors and installed the trim files and voila machine started on its own first time and in 1 tumble after that , even tried to dig and it felt like a completely new machine . Must say thanks to nige ,ahart,heymcall , simonc and everyone else who gave some advice it was well received as I'm still learning on this job . Hope someday to return the valuable help you guys offer here
Glad you got it going. As in everything, unless you somehow trip and fall into it, experience is the key to success
Good deal! Thanks for sharing the process and the results.
Hello, I have been experiencing the same situation, excavator 320d L unable to start after lunch day time, during morning it took few second cranks to starts, Please help machine serial number KGF06647
Hey, get your mechanic to hook up et and check fuel rail pressures . You may be looking at pump failure or injectors
Updates.. I connected CAT ET then I checked the following 1- injector solonoid test, All OK 2- fuel pressure solonoid valve test, OK When I crank the engine, the fuel rail pressure was around 1726 psi while the desire fuel pressure reads 4357 psi