Been posting here a bit about my komatsu D41s3. Prior to buying this machine I had never driven anything with tracks so there is my experience level. I have now buried some livestock and feel like I am getting the hang of it. I searched online but finding instructional vids did not turn up much at all (maybe I looked in the wrong places). Anyway would love to learn the techniques for pushing trees over and other grading techniques. I started in a pine thicket but quickly saw where pushing trees into trees could get sketchy fast. Thanks and Happy New Year
using the crawler loader in your sig? First thing is, some trees have widowmaker limbs in them that can drop down and ruin your day, as soon as you start messing with them. Sometimes when you are just standing there minding your own business! You need to look at a tree and see which way gravity wants to take it. Look for those limbs. Plan a path where you want it to fall exactly. I would cut roots on anything that was not just a straight push. You may have to pick apart that thicket from a different direction than you planned. You might need to cut a slot through it, felling the trees so they are not stacking dangerously, and then turn and work each way. Sometimes there is room to back in behind one to get a hole started. The big thing is, no hurry and think about what can happen with each move. Don't bump a tree you have not looked over.
2 things to do, only dig around 3 sides of a tree. The 4th side should be the direction of fall and becomes a hinge and stops the tree coming back on you. Don't push trees into standing trees. That's when the tops break off and come down on you. One other thing, before starting figure out where any heaps or holes are going to be then fall the trees parallel to that, it makes cleaning up easier on the machine as you are pushing on the barrel and not the stump. Also the small branches tend to stay intact making the cleanup faster. If you're going to burn keep the heaps clean, dirt don't burn. Roll the tree on the ground just prior to pushing into the stack.
If you're planning to do much of this I think I'd put some screening on the front and sides, if you're really handy you could make it removable. When pushing brush it's very difficult to watch everything and anticipate danger. Try to keep your bucket at a height where it shields you.
Yes, getting a tree trunk under compression can end VERY poorly.
Wear a hardhat when you exit the machine! Small branches can break and hang in trees that are close. Not fun when they fall on your head from 50'+ in the sky. Ed
You don't mention tree size. Size matters. I pushed a lot of trees with a wheel loader. Then I got a hoe and discovered I had been carrying a knife to a gunfight for a long time. When trees are single row, like a fence line, a loader works ok. When you want to clear a grove of trees, a loader is the wrong tool. Its easy to cut the roots on the approach side. But now you need to lift the bucket and push it over. But the hold you dug to cut the roots is in the way. Then you are pushing it into the rest of the trees, so it doesn't want to fall down. Plus, as the top breaks out tops in the remaining trees it creates more widowmakers. If you tear up your machine pushing dirt, its your own fault. Trees just want to kill you.
A solidly-built, full scrub dozer canopy with risers, is a necessary addition to a crawler when you start knocking down trees. A tree spear is a useful addition for bigger trees. Examine trees as you approach them, assess them for dry rot, termite damage, anything that can weaken them, and make them collapse onto your machine. Watch out for forked limbs that fall onto the canopy, with one limb staying on top of the canopy, and the other swinging under the canopy roof, to smack you in the head! Watch out for stray limbs poking into radiators, hoses, belly compartments - anywhere where they can cause damage. As terex herder says, tree limbs are out to get you, every minute of the day! Watch out for a buildup of dry sticks and leaves and debris that builds up in the engine compartment - and especially around the exhaust manifold. You can start a fire quite easily if you allow the sticks and leaves to build up. Clear them out daily. Carry a fire extinguisher, or at least some water, on the tractor. It's easy to bend panels and guards and tinwork by not watching stray limbs and branches when you're pushing them. Been there and done all that, I've cleared probably over 150,000 acres - including many thousands of acres of chaining, in my earlier dozing career. Nowadays, clearing in my neck of the woods is limited, and very tightly controlled, the problems of overclearing took 30-40 years to show up.
Thanks! I had thought of fabbing some guards up. I would love to get an excavator but they are pricey. I have a large fire extinguisher, got that the first time it started smoking (just a loose injector) and I was a mile away from anything.
keep us informed so we know you are OK.
Can't say enough about having a fully charged fire extinguisher on a piece of iron. Good friend of mine lost his A model 953 to a fire. He was pushing up a burn pile at dusk, parked the machine and saw a glow from the front around the hydro and fuel tank. Didn't have an extinguisher on the loader and the one in his truck wasn't charged. Off-duty PD officer saw the fire from the road and stopped to help only to find his extinguisher wasn't charged. They had to stand there and watch his loader burn up as the volunteer FD was on the way. Yellow Iron can burn up very quickly. Cab screens are fairly easy to fab up however if your loader has a certified ROPS drilling or welding on the structure negates the certification. Back to the original question. Where are you located and what type and size of trees do you need to clear? A track loader is a great clearing machine depending on the trees and underfoot conditions.
^wrap some strap around the ROPS legs and drill the ends and bolt, clamping your screens to the ROPS without drilling or welding it. If you worry about such things.
Being an owner I worry about such things when it comes around to selling a machine since a machine with a damaged ROPS is worth much, much less than one without. Don't know but OP probably plans on keeping his loader for the long run.
I am in GA, mostly mid size pine trees between 6” and maybe 24” in diameter at the base. A lot of them are smaller size just clumped fairly close together. Soil is red clay mostly. I will see if I can post pics
Leave any big trees for fallers to deal with. The roots on a bigger tree will not go quietly, and you're right there to get swatted with any roots you didn't get cut.
The area in question is to the left and right of the road in the abve pic. Want to clear somI can see the lower pasture from my deck, I am a very lazy deer hunter
Since nobody else mentioned this (I’m surprised).. Don’t forget about root balls, when the tree does down, the root balls come up.. Good friend of mine (operator) watched a guy several years ago pushing on a big tree, when he finally got it to go over the root ball came up and flopped a CAT 955 over like it was a tonka toy..
I'm assuming you'll want the trees stacked on the pasture for burning. If so then start at the pasture end and use the track to drop the trees onto. Do one side at a time and go round any big trees, these can be taken down near the end of job so you'll have more room to work on them. I'd be pulling out the fallen trees with a chain rather than pushing them but that also depends on how big a swath you want. Keep your job tidy and don't go nuts dropping trees everywhere just be methodical and you'll be fine.
I wondered if using a chain would be easier for stacking purposes
That would be very easy for me to clear,you already have a lane up the middle to work it into. Skyking is giving you bad advice to leave the big trees for a saw,I've cleared MANY acres that looked just like that and you can do it,just keep everything in front of you and if you can't push it over first try just dig around it a little more. What part of Ga. are you?
Wow. I've pushed over many a large tree with many dozers and a 953 and never had that issue. What kind of tree was it?
I've had a few close calls like that on big oaks on steep ground where it's hard to back up.
He don’t know or remember.. They were getting ground ready for subdivision, my buddy was in a backhoe digging for utilities, the other fella was roughing in for roads/drainage, the tree had to go.. Had he reversed the CAT when tree went over it woulda never happened..
I take trees out often with a full sized backhoe. It seems better odds inside a ROPS enclosure. My method varies with the size of the tree. Big trees, I begin ripping out roots three sides, smaller ones I don't have to. I reach up 2/3 the reach of the hoe & dig the bucket teeth in enough they won't skid up the tree. I've had a few hoes with extend a hoe. The tree trunk is a big lever & the angle lifts roots out of the ground. I've taken hundreds of trees without a mishap. I DO NOT USE THIS METHOD ON DEAD TREES! Dead trees get a winch cable longer than the tree is tall. Dead trees are unpredictable. I've done smaller trees with the dozer. It is a less efficient machine for bigger trees. I see dozers rigged with a tree spear, seems a great way to take down small trees. My dozer in the avatar is only 14000 LBS.
I'll have to give this a try. I've got some fence rows to finish clearing on my property and some rock piles that have trees growing up around them now that I would like cleared out. What kind of pads do you have on your stabilizers? Mine have flat rubber pads that seem to let the backhoe skate around some while digging. Are you running a flat pad, or something with some bite?
I don't see any 24" trees in that picture. Picking those into the road will be easy to do safely. Choke and drag to a landing to sort out. It's a shame nobody wants the firewood.
Sometimes you don't realize there are dead tree's in the bush you're knocking down. That's when you want to at least have a ROPS with a canopy.
Mine are flip over, rubber on one side for pavement & pretty aggressive dig in for earth. I can't say others have been a problem, I'm mostly pushing up. Another thing that helps is the Case is intended to flip the front bucket upside down, the cutting edge & top of the bucket dig into soft ground pretty well. Generally a 20" tree goes over pretty easy. A 3' diameter tree needs some roots ripped out first. Of course, if you don't want to remove the stump a chainsaw is a good way to take it down.
I'm plenty good with a chainsaw, but then I have to remove a stump. This ground will be returned to farming once the over growth is removed. I had my uncle clear a half mile in the winter of 2019, and that just scraped the surface of what needs cleaned up. Aside from the property lines that are 50 to 80 ft over grown, there is also a dozen rock piles scattered through the 72 acres with trees growing up through them to remove as well. I'll make it efficiently tillable when I'm done.
When we bought the 100 acre "south woods" in 96 the po wasn't much when it came to "being tidy". Ony 35 tillable, its very cut up with 4 seperate fields. Trees that fell in the field were just worked around. The edges were never trimmed or had saplings cleared. I spent over 2 years cleaning the place up. Pole pruner, 2 clearing saws and the Bobcat. Plenty of beer involved too. Ed
The PO of my place wanted "deer habitat".
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-WlKqa2JFe5ofqdfjSSEfw I do land clearing with a larger track loader. I have a bunch of videos showing the way i do trees. Sometimes i explain what im doing.
It takes a big tree to put up a fight with a 973.
Sorry for the lack of replies, I have been traveling for work. I went and used my farm tractor and chains to clean up the felled trees into an nice orderly pile. A couple I pushed over need a Little more work on the root balls. I will post pics of the work when it quits raining. I am in north GA south of Atlanta. My machine has full ROPS but no screens. So far all the trees have been alive. I will check out the above videos. Thanks for all the replies..,I am still alive so far
Watched some of you videos ippielb, my techniques weren’t too far off after all!
So in the second pic, ho can I get in there to push trees out? Its so thick I cant get my loader in there short of pushing smaller trees and brush into more trees and brush
Push the small trees over, roll the bucket, grab them with the teeth , drag them out in the opening and then stack in a pile. One of the many things I like about track loaders is how they can shine clearing an area shown in pic #2. That's perfect ground and scrub to clear with a loader. Use this method to clear all the small trees then push the larger ones over. Keep your brush as clean as you can as you push, drag and stack. I've cleared many an acre that looks just like that.
I never thought about doing it that way. Thanks!
I'll add to my comment above. With small trees like that lay your bucket on the ground, cut through the stumps, when you get a bucket full roll it out, shake the brush wad if it's dirty then grab the trees and back drag out. Each time you are dragging, raking or stacking with the loader teeth is an opportunity to clean the dirty out of your brush pile.
Happy 2023 all. May your year bring good luck and prosperity... Once you figure out your machine you can hook trees with the back of the bucket and pull them backwards on an angle and have them drop back towards the side of the machine. You must use the loader arms to apply pressure to the side of the tree as it comes backwards. It is dangerous but it is very useful when you must work close to houses and in areas where you cant push forward. Break the ground all the way around the tree before you start. Sometimes 3 or 4 deep depending on if it is a pesky sweet gum thats want to snap off instead of pull the root ball out. Do a test push and see if it will roll out, if not break the ground all the way around the stump -- if you need to get the whole stump out. I typically try not drive over trees that i have dropped unless i want to break up the tops. On more than one occasion I have damaged both my track loaders having an odd smaller tree try to spear you off the machine once you start pushing threw smaller stuff and driving over it. They come up and try to get the radiator or snake threw the rops and spear you. Making a road and trying to save certain trees as you go, is when you get in to stuff that has a greater chance of getting you hurt because you bring the standing ones closer to you as you work. I have had the bucket up and had a chuck of tree fall on the bucket and bounce and hit me right in the face... Dead trees are very hard and in some parts of the forrest there are large vines that pull things out of tops of trees behind you and onto the back of your machine. Use a good tree to smack the dead one before you get near it.. For me the worst trees are a group of large trees that have grown up around each other closer together than your bucket width. The pulling technique will help if you can get the root balls to separate sometimes the root balls are connected and they will not separate and then you might as well be dropping 2 or 3 trees at the same time. There was an older guy around here that used a loader a lot. He would push down trees threw standing trees to break them up. He had one do a wierd whip, it came back and part of it caught his arm and it was cut off. Make sure you learn about tree tension and spring back, limbs can cause the trunk to jump straight back out of the pile at you. When you use a machine to drop a tree they will build up tension when you bend the tree trunk or branch. Make sure that you relieve the tension before you or some else saws it up, the small stuff under pressure can get you. Pushing it over with the machine lets your brain forget that a 2" tree can hurt real bad if it love taps you under pressure. Clearing and putting it in piles is different than needing to haul it off. I will clear a 100' - 150' wide area and pull out 10 or 12 whole trees and lay them out in a row not touching each other so that it is safe to saw them up with nothing over your head and no pressure on the trees... and I also try to move the trees CLEANLY and out of the dirt to help keep my saws sharp longer. I have cleared lots of areas like you have in the photos and needed to haul it off. I roll the tops in to the road and try not to break them as they come down. I had a log yard willing to take the little ones and we carefully laid them over limbed them cut them to 18 feet or so and took load after load.
If the older fellow you are talking sbout is from Dallas,Ga. I know him very well.and the way you described is not the way he lost the arm from the elbow down. If you are talking about him,he was clearing pines and just running in second on a 955 and hitting the trees about 10' up and slapping them down fast,it was August I think in '93 and very dry, one tree did a barber chair and shot back and as he spun his torso to avoid it he had his arm raised and the butt caught it and pinched it off against the the clearing screen on the back of the cab. You might be talking about someone else,but regaurdless clearing is dangerous work and even experienced operators have accidents, more when in a hurry.
Charles, Sounds like the same person, if his name was Donald. My dad went hunting with him and told me about the injury. He told me the basic story, he always said the tree whipped back and took his arm, you put a few more details on it for me. Thanks. My dad did not want me to purchase a track loader due to his friend being hurt. He thought I would get hurt using one. Which I have had a good many close calls including almost sliding one straight into a 25' deep trench that I had dug out with an excavator, when i was swapping some real heavy wet top soil for good fill. Trees have almost got me several times. I had an 8 inch green popular whip towards me as sprung out of the bucket it missed the rops and came in the front towards my head, it was so fast and violent that you did not have time to put your hands up. I look for it now... on another time one rode up on the track as I was backing and it jammed straight threw the right side, pushed across my right shoulder and buried itself into the headliner and bent before i could get the machine to stop moving. It ripped a hole in the headliner and insulation. Then a few years later, red wasps built a nest in the hole and when I got into the machine they tore me a new one. For those that dont know when you push up trees with giant root balls most of the time when it separates both sides can move or roll so leave an exit ( a clear way for you to get away from the stump and tree) and let go of the saw if something moves. When you cut off a stump that weighs 5000 lbs whats left of the tree might decide to come towards you. I am lucky I learned on an open cab machine because if it were enclosed it would have lost a lot of glass. If a 953 can do it, I have done it, what is amazing to me is these machines have 14,000 plus hours and they still work and work hard... I would suggest that if you are going to clear trees and brush to attach some expanded metal or something to protect yourself from them. It is only a matter of time before something happens and you may get lucky or you may eat one.
Pushing down trees? I depends on the size. The most dangerous tree is a vine maple, they can break things, including your arm, head etc. if not removed correctly. Most all my clearing was done with a Beals clearing rake. 6 to 14 inch diameter no digging needed but that is D8, those will stop a D6, depending on species and ground conditions. For any tree clearing it is best to log it first, and then split the stumps, medium size with the rake and really large stuff maybe 30 inches up with a stump splitter, makes it easier to burn them or chip them. If you don't want the wood find some logger that does that removes most of the danger mentioned from the others that posted above. If any is marketable you could even get some gas money from it.
Yep,that's him. I probably would know you if I saw you if you ever bought any parts from L&N back when they were selling Cat parts mostly. I learned on open cabs too,with noone to teach me anything. I just had a strong desire to do it and I've had too many close calls to list them all. Hope you continue to be safe and profitable in the business. P.S. I'm from Rose's Store Ga. same as Donald H.
You have to set yourself up into a position where you can push the trees somewhere. Plan out your clearing with set brush pile locations. Clear a wide swath of trees to the location and then push everything out and away from where your pile will be. Then you can back out and start pushing everything into a pile. cutting the trees off at the base with the bucket is counter productive Its far easier to remove a stump while its still attached to the tree. The small little trees just rake with your teeth of your bucket to the side. Rake, turn left, Back up, another swath raking and then turn left. Make yourself a windrow of small piles or brush in that wide swath you make with a clear path to the brush pile. That way you can focus on pushing and cleaning the brush pile alone the path shedding dirt, organic, leaves etc. If you're worried about the small twigs and branches you'll be there all day long burning fuel. Try knocking over one bigger tree with lots of healthy limbs and just dragging it across the ground instead of carrying it. It'll help you clean up.
Been raining for days, maybe get back to work tomorrow
I've had two bad experiences with trees. First was when the bucket slipped off the trunk, I wasn't wearing my lap belt and got thrown from the machine head first ! Put a goose egg on my noggin. The wife was watching and pee-d her pants laughing so hard - at me. So much for love... The second episode, I was pushing the trunk with my mini and didn't have the blade down for stability, The tree was close to folding over when the machine fell over on it's side. Hydro-static lock and a broken con-rod right through the block resulted. I learned from both accidents.
What kind of mini was that you were using?
Hey, Charles I just realized I missed replying to you. Thanks for the kind words. If you need anything come see us.
Bobcat 418 maybe 2300# ? The machine fell on top of my leg trapping me under it, fortunately the ground was soft and gave way enough, that I didn't break any bones. If I had not been trapped under it, I could've been able to shut it off - before the crankcase oil went into the intake and seized the engine. That was a $6,000. tree/engine !!! The worst part is; I know a guy that would've taken the tree for free, for the fire wood, and he does a good job of cleaning up after himself.
Not too many guys have a machine fall on them, and live to tell the story! Saw some graphic photos over 20 years ago, a guy in Asia was driving a high-track Cat with no cabin or ROPS up a set of ramps onto a trailer, on a wharf. The tractor flipped straight over backwards, and that operator was just a red smear on the wharf when they lifted it off him.
A pic. of that was shown on here. There was a video but it was deemed too graphic to show.
Mother's half brother was killed when a crawler he was operating went over backward. He left a wife & two sons, both in diapers. Wife went crazy & the sons were raised by a step grandmother. Family story is it went over backward. Nobody seems to know the details. I envisioned it being a crawler without a blade, likely a log arch or winch. Loggers are known to rig their load pretty high to prevent logs from digging in.
My Great Uncle slipped off the tail of his lowboy while unloading his 941 and rolled down a road bank and ended up pinned to the ground by the bumper on his abdomen. He lived for 21 days until gangrene took him. This was in 1975 when hospitals in our area were not state of the art.
Thankfully I have full ROPS and I installed seat belts after the previous owner cut them out…so there is that
Wish I had an airworthy 310 to fly on down and give you a hand. Welcome back to your thread. We have the endless rain this year
I love the twin cessnas. I have to do recurrent on them tomorrow.
you fly them 135?
Be ever conscious that a seat belt won't save you if it isn't buckled. It is SO easy to rationalize "I don't need it now, I'm not doing anything dangerous". I myself was tossed out of a backhoe. I had 1/10 of a second warning, not enough to even grab for something to hold.
No just 91 for a buddy of mine.
I've only flown the 310s. B,C,D,K? Not sure on that last one. I know it was the piggiest of the bunch. They suffer from model creep like a lot of planes. The early ones are nicer on the controls.
My buddy has a 414 ram 4 with winglets. Very nice machine but 40 gallons an hour at avgas prices is $$$$$$$$$$
In the instance that I was talking about a seat belt would only have made it worse as the machine was topless. That said, I actually survived a rollover about 20 years ago because I was buckled up.
I am such a chicken I don’t think I would run a topless machine. I really don’t know much about what I am doing either
I took the ROPS off my John Deere crawler loader once, to work under some cantilevered porches. It felt way wrong.
40 Gallons !!! I can't afford 10 Gallons. At that rate, I'd rather have a T-28 Trojan. or a turbine Legend.
I did most of the fun flying of the 310 when the price was less than two bucks. @25 an hour, the current prices do have a sting to them.
How much is insurance for a plane and does it have to be yearly like motorcycles and snowmobiles?
The ultralight owners here pay around AU$2500 annually for insurance and their insured value is probably only around AU$50K-$75K. Bigger aircraft would be pretty expensive to insure, but I'm sure the insurer adjusts the premium according to the model of aircraft, the pilots experience, and the type of use. The lighter aircraft have a poorer safety record than the bigger aircraft, and private recreational pilots would pose a much higher insurance risk. I'd have to guess the insurer probably even takes the pilots age into account.
https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-pu...n-news/news/06-15-2017-uninsured-flying-naked A tail wheel vs. a tricycle gear might add $ 1000. to the premium. Helicopter insurance is, "cost prohibitive".
We carried liability and coverage for our passengers only on the plane, hull insurance was too much. Keeping the hull and contents safe and sound was #1. If I failed in that, there would not be anyone to care about replacing the hull. I don't know what the cost is now.
If it was turbine then likely 200 gallons or more per hour? How does JetA compare to 100LL price?
Never realized insurance wasn't absolutely required.
Jet A is considerably cheaper but you burn a lot more and the mx costs go up a lot….way lot. It is a rich mans game. Brake job is 100+k on what I fly for my job
no, not that bad. the 325 hp continentals in the Ram 414 lean out to 0.45 Lb/HP/Hr. 40 gallons = 240 PPH That's about 260 HP per engine in cruise. Pratt and Whitney's smallest engine is 500 SHP They burn about 0.67 Lb/Hp/Hr at the lower power settings 520 Hp x 0.67 = 350 PPH = 52 GPH. So the same plane at the same power settings 40 vs 52 gallons per hour. What is significant is the weight of the fuel, 6 pounds vs 6.75 pounds per gallon. When they do a turbine conversion, they don't get to jack up the gross weight arbitrarily, so a fast plane like a 414 will fly farther with a heavier load in the original power configuration. It is just significantly faster on the short hauls and easier to fly, more reliable, etc. as a turbine. As you dial up a given turbine engine, the efficiency goes up. If they made a smaller PT6A hot section that was more of a match to the 325 HP continental, the burn would be better. The Allison 250 is a better power match, but they burn more fuel. they burn 0.70lb/hp/hr.
Back when that happened topless loaders were mostly like that in the early’70’s here. By the time I started operating in the late’80’s most all machines had ROPS but my Great Uncle had been gone a good while by then.