I bought a used Case CX135. It has an aftermarket setup for a quick connect/disconnect for the bucket (the quick connect piece itself did not come with it) and it two has 1"ish (outside dimensions) hose lines running from the valve body out and down the dipper arm and are capped off. I am told they were probably used for a stamper or something similar. There are joystick buttons for the quick connect in the cab but nothing for the stamper or whatever was used with those two big lines. I want to add a hydraulic thumb but I do not know anything about the valve body, where to hook it up on it, etc. My research has figured out I need a double acting servo with cab controls but don't know how to hook the servo to the manifold or if it needs a back pressure return line for when the bucket overrides the thumb cylinder. None of the local companies close to me will take on this project or give advice. I am very rural. I can provide pictures of how the current hydro lines are connected to the valve body but I need someone knowledgeable to help me hook up the lines from the valve body to the servo and to the return lines. I want to use the 1" lines already on the excavator. It has been two months of me making mistakes and wasting money trying to do this with just internet searches so now I am trying the forums. I am pretty mechanical but I do not know much about hydraulics, excavators, and such. Thanks in advance.
Pictures of the lines on the stick and your cab control and joysticks along with the serial number of your machine would be helpful. Do you have any foot pedals in the cab? Some machines use them to control aux hydraulic circuits.
Those lines sound a little big for a quick attach. On our Cats they're just tiny little hoses for that. From memory I think they're #6 (3/8" ID). If those big lines are coming off the main control valve auxillary spool then they'll be what you will use for the thumb. If there are pilot lines going to each spool then follow those lines and see where they go. Might be a foot control or if you have a digital display, may need to configure a thumb in there. You shouldn't need any fancy valving or plumbing to run a thumb, no return to tank neccessary (unless you want to eventually use a hammer, plate compactor etc). You'll set your auxillary relief low enough to allow the bucket to overpower the thumb. Any displaced oil will just flow back to the tank through the relief.
If it were for the quick connect they would more than likely be 1/4” - 1/2” lines and probably would not be controlled by the buttons on the one of the joysticks, too easy to accidentally release the bucket. Fairly certain you have auxiliary lines for at least a hammer, you would need to confirm that it is double acting hydraulics to use a thumb. Do you happen to have the operators manual?
Good day According to my schematic the CX130 use the option spool to power hammers, if you take a look at your main valve that should be easy to establish see attched. Standard Case control was by the extra foot control pedal similar to the track control. See attached. Kind regards Uffex
I'll get some pictures later this afternoon. There are no foot controls in the cab.
The lines for the coupler are small. I think maybe 3/8s or 1/4 size lines. A spool is something that is used to control the flow of the hydraulics? Rather than electric and a valve it has manual control? I was told by a guy that the large lines may have been used for a plate compactor or hammer. Those lines come directly off the valve body ( think that is what the big control mechanism is that has all the hoses going to and from it.
Yes, the quick coupler lines are small. Maybe 3/8s or 1/4". I followed the braided lines off of the solenoid and it went to the quick coupler box and then to the joystick. That is what it looks like. I may have lost the line somewhere but there are only one set of braided lines and it comes from the single acting solenoid, into the cab, to a quick coupler box (the box has on/off, connect, disconnect on it and is fused) . Not 100% sure but pretty sure. I do have a repair manual I got online. I used that to do a complete service on the machine. It doesn't address thumbs (specifically) though. There may be usable info there but since I am not familiar I probably overlooked it not knowing what I was looking at.
If memory serves, according to your schematic, one of the hoses goes from 5A2 to a manual ball valve on the stick (one incoming line into the side valve, one line out of the top of the valve to the dipper stick, another line going out the other side of the valve and back into the body of the machine and I "think" to the tank). I will get pic this afternoon.
Here are some pictures showing the hoses and what I think is called the Stack Valve?
Okay, so the joystick buttons probably do NOT control the quick coupler. It would seem redundant when there is a control box you pick sitting behind the seat that has the controls for coupling and uncoupling.
So it looks to me like that 3 way ball valve on the back of the boom is how you select one way flow (breaker, plate compactor) and 2 way flow (thumb, shear, pulverizer). I'd say your machine has everything needed to plumb in a thumb, your issue is most likely on the control side of things.
I'll check tomorrow but I think the ball valve has On and Off positions only.
Good day Apologies if my information was not good, please see attached my straighten out some questions. Kind regards Uffex
Thanks for both of the schematics. I think I understand. Is this correct? When using a compactor, the ball valve is set to "closed/ single action" so hydraulic oil can return only and when using a thumb it is set to "open" so there is outgoing (to the thumb cylinder) double action with the hydraulics. I do not have a foot controller for options. The only foot controls I have are for traveling. That is why I was thinking I could get an electrically controlled solenoid to control the flow to the thumb. If that makes sense. I already have a joystick with two buttons that are hooked up to...something. I opened up the small lines and tried using the buttons, then opened up the bigger lines and didn't see any obvious increase in oil output to the lines. I had the lines opened and feeding into clean 5 gallon buckets so I could reclaim the oil. I did so some fixing on some disconnected electrical lines in the cab. Maybe I should try the bucket/open line joystick buttons again. Oh, and Yes both of the large diameter lines are connected to the Options or Aux ports on the stack valve. I thought the buttons on the joystick were connected to the coupler but after Tag's comment I looked again, more in-depth, and now I do not think the joystick buttons are connected for coupler control. What should I try/do from here?
Here is a picture of the Joystick, coupler control, and coupler solenoid. This is why I now do not think the buttons on the joystick are for controlling the quick coupler. I took a closer look after Tag's post.
Honestly, I would start at the auxillary spool on the main control valve stack. Those tiny lines that go to the cap over the spool (looks like there's a purple zip tie on one, can't see the other line on the opposite cap). Follow those 2 lines, they should run to a solenoid valve of some sort and are more than likely controlled via the joystick buttons. Find whatever component(s) those 2 lines are connected to and try to get us a picture. I don't want to jump the gun but I feel your issue might be in the wiring.
Good day Gunsmith65 I would suggest taking one situation at a time. Would it be best to consider your main goal, getting that thumb working. Your post of the lines for both quick bucket coupler and the option line look correct. I suggest you use those larger lines to connect your thumb. Here comes the first problem to consider, a hammer line will not have port relief to both lines to your thumb, this is a necessity to prevent damage, follow those lines back and take a photo of that control valve, so we are on the same page. The next consideration is how you prefer to operate your thumb, that opens a complete new landscape > Pedal > Control lever with switch > button switch with step control, Ect. Take a spell, see what you prefer, go to the excatech.org site > choose library > adapted applications. Take your time to ponder the options once you decide to keep to the selected option. A hammer control will only activate with a single solenoid one way control, not suitable for a thumb. If you would like to retain the hammer option, please mention this from the outset. Kind regards Uffex
Looks to me like that 3 way valve on the back of the boom is set up as a selector, which would either allow return flow directly to tank (bypassing the main valve stack) or it would have flow return back through the main valve stack for thumb operation. We've set a lot of older excavators up that way when they don't have the ability to do it through the monitor.
I couldn't get in very far with the camera but the lines you pointed out (the purple tie line and the one next to it) go to what I believe is the coupler solenoid. I took a picture of the solenoid and posted it earlier if you wanted to see it. Please understand, this is the first time I have ever worked on an excavator so I am learning names and functions. Just let me know if I am not giving the answer you are looking for. That purple thing is a flexible tie but it isn't holding anything at this point. Just fyi. I will need to take panels off to get into the lines better. I will do that in the next day or two.
No worries. Asking questions is good. Those little lines you followed to the solenoid are pilot lines. They control how much the spool moves in that section of your main valve stack. The more the spool moves, the more oil it allows to flow. I'm willing to bet the solenoid attached to those lines is wired to your joystick buttons. Only way to know for sure would be to see where the wiring off the solenoids leads to.
Yes, my first and main goal is to get the thumb working. I do want to use the larger lines for my thumb hookup. I will probably never have/need/use a compactor or hammer. If I do, I will worry about that then. I bought this to move boulders, flatten out areas, dig electrical and plumbing ditches, move downed trees, etc on my property. This is not a business tool, just a home/my own land improvement tool. First problem, which control valve are you telling me to take a picture of? The ball valve or the stack valve? Do you want a closer picture of the ball valve? I want to use the two buttons on the joystick in the cab to control the thumb if at all possible. I do not have a console control monitor or anything so I can't access some of the information that it would provide. I went to the site you listed. Great information. I do want to use the bucket and thumb concurrently. I want the thumb to be controlled using the two thumb buttons on my current joystick. I just bought the joystick {pictured above} because the old one was literally held together with a wooden stick and duct tape. I think a tree (or something large and quite heavy, fell on the cab at some point in the past as the cab and some of the outer panels had/have extensive damage. I paid accordingly as I can fix the cab and panels with a little fabrication and welding. This is the solenoid I was looking at if I have to go this way. https://summit-hydraulics.com/produ...ing-directional-control-valve-1-spool-25-gpm/ (hopefully posting a link is not a bad thing).
Good day Let me assemble some information to help out based on what you have posted. The three port ball valve in most case's has been installed so that you may choose between hammer (One direction power) and shear/grab, which requires power in both directions. I will try to find a better illustration. Kind regards Uffex
Good day Please see attched for main hydraulics, forget about the ball valve you will not have any use for it . Kind regards Uffex
If I am understanding these directions correctly, I didn't quite relay what I want when I said "be able to use the bucket and thumb at the same time". I knew what I meant but didn't relay it or understand it correctly. Sorry. This is what I understand; the method you showed is using the buttons to change control options but all thumb and bucket control is made via joystick movement input. Is that correct? Here is what I am looking, hopefully, to do. I would like the bucket to work as normal through the joystick movement controls and I would like the thumb to operate (open/close) specifically from the two buttons located on the top of the joystick. I would like the thumb to stop when I release the button, then move proportionally closer, or away, as I press/release the appropriate button. This may add some cost but it is what I am comfortable with. Through my renting of equipment over the years, I enjoyed it most when I could control bucket and thumb in the manner described. I know this machine isn't those machines so if this isn't possible, then I will go with the method you provided. Let me know if this is possible. I hope I don't sound unappreciative of what you have provided. I am, tremendously. I am much closer to understanding this. Thank you.
I will check this out tomorrow, rain willing. I did not know those controlled the flow of the other lines on that level If I get what you are saying.
Good day I believe I understand what you are looking for, it's known as "Proportional control" scroll buttons in the head of the lever. That particular control requires a ECU (Processor) and proportional solenoids, which will increase costs. I can help you with the installation, but the cost is going to increase significantly. On - Off versions of the system rarely meet with satisfaction, that is why I suggested the alternative. Kind regards Uffex
Maybe a foot pedal could offer a solution. Kind regards Uffex
I need to check fluid flow on the two large lines after making some suggested changes. It is raining hard here and I don't want to get water mixed in the hydro fluid. I use a clean 5 gallon bucket to capture and reuse the fluid.
The more I think about what you showed me, the more I am getting accustomed to the idea. It will just take some getting familiar with it.
Good day Gunsmith Onece the main hydraulics are hooked up that will just leave the control, if you a couple of 24 volt soleniod valves's in your workshop we can try a very easy solution to control, I can find the explanation and post it if it is of interest. Kind regards Uffex
Well, you guessed correctly...mostly. LOL. The three way ball valve was indeed half of the problem. The other problem was an electrical line that was cut. I assume it got cut when whatever hit the cab/crashed into the excavator. I had to fix some other electrical lines as well but they were in a different area. Go figure. I also had to buy two lines that bridged the gap from the old lines to the hydraulic cylinder. That was kind of expensive. I got the thumb working in both directions now. I just need to figure out how much pressure is being used. I already popped a temporary weld, twice. I followed, exactly, the thumb install directions that came with the thumb. Well, if the thumb goes too far back when in the stowed position, it pushes the lower mount down instead of swiveling the thumb out and down. The sucky part is I already did the final welds on the upper cylinder mount. Now I need to put a bumper of some sort under the thumb cylinder pivot area so it can't go so far back towards the boom and become set at a negative angle. Joy.
This schematic helped a LOT in figuring out the problem with the thumb. I realised the On/Off needed to be Off to make the thumb work correctly (move up AND down via the buttons on the joystick). I also found a broken wire back in an area I hadn't really looked closely at. Thanks for all the help!!! I just need to figure out how to ensure the PSI isn't set to high so the bucket can overpower the thumb prior to damaging something. I already broke a temporary weld on the lower thumb mount. That scared me a tad when it popped. Thanks again. I appreciate your help.
Good day Gunsmith That's good news, making progress, regarding the pressure for the thumb I suggest adjust the valve to a low pressure enough to move the cylinder. With the bucket cylinder pressed against the thumb, just give enough pressure to hold an object (tree root). As the object is just to hold and not to force. Kind regards Uffex
Okay, thanks. I am going to assume counter clockwise for reducing pressure. I will experiment with it. Thank you much.
I ended up cutting the welds on the top cylinder mount and moving the mount down about 5 inches. I turned my plasma cutter way down and gouged out most of the weld then used a cutting disk to finish the last little bit. Then I used the negative angle to pop the couple of weld points I couldn't get to with the cutter. Didn't take much. I didn't want to cut into the dipper stick so was very careful. The installation instructions from the manufacturer of the thumb do not work on my machine. Once the cylinder is in the stowed position, it is at a negative angle and tries to push the lower mount down rather than pushing the thumb out. No problem though. I just didn't know how it would work out and now I do.
Good day Gunsmith I am afraid I may have misunderstood the original post, my interpretation was that you did not have any proportional controls in place, my response was to resolve the situation as economically as possible. Sorry if that caused any misunderstanding. My advice regarding pressure levels still stands, control the pressure by the port relief for the positive side of the thumb cylinder. As geometry effects the pressure required, each individual thumb installation requires its own pressure level, best to work with a low level and gradually increase by turning clockwise. If you need more help, come back. Kind regards Uffex
Part of the problem is I didn't even know what I was look for or at. This thread helped me to understand what I had or didn't have on the excavator already. I thought the braided line from the proportional valve was to the quick release controller. Your posts let me read pertinent information that also helped me identify parts and understand operation of those parts. Thanks for all your help and thank you all for your assistance in helping figure this out. I still need to adjust the pressure as it has been stupid cold here and I just haven't done it yet. Thank you agian. Happy Thanksgiving.