Background: Plan to use clamp on forks to lift approx. 2000 lb engine/trans. assembly out of truck Thinking of using this set up to carefully get the eng/trans assy ready to lift with normal backhoe functions Backhoe is a JD 310B and can lift approx. 5000 lbs with the front bucket. Want to use front bucket with forks as an engine lift with 12 volt winch Thinking of lifting with tips of forks for clearance while bucket is chained back to cross arm and supported by a railroad cross tie See the diagram below Questions: How much does the 2000lb tip weight equal at the bucket? Should forks be set close or towards the ends of the bucket with a cross beam? Anyone try this or something similar before? Pictures?
I have no idea, but that is one beautifully composed post.
I have never used clamp-on forks, but think some of them look damn cheesey. I would be more worried about a fork failure than having the loader tip. I don't think it would tip with the tie under the bucket like that. But if the tie IS whats keeping it stable, and it kicks out on you, sinks in the mud, ect. then things could get dangerous in a hurry. I think you'd need someone with a heavy physics background to calculate the exact forces. That's not me.
The cross tie and chain are the important parts. Your wanting actual forces, more information will be needed. Your loader will have plenty of weight for the job. I would put the ties under the forks and put them where you want (centered is fine).
I had a friend years ago who had welded on short beefy pipes on top of his loader buckets to receive a gin pole of various lengths to pick whatever he was lifting for height and clearance purposes.You could do that and just use your hydraulics to lift that engine.
Stevenbrla- Thanks for the kind words I just wanted to apply a little 'science' ahead of time rather than rely on the trial/error/damage - seat of the pants stuff I have used in the past. I'll use a thick piece of plywood or 2x12 as foot so the tie doesn't sink into the ground. I could see the transition from railroad tie support to loader lift being critical too. The ground will be level and I'll be moving maybe 20 feet to set down on a skid. I might have to do most of the work pretty much by myself so operating the loader is pretty much for once I have everything detached. Might try to get some help when the donor engine is installed.
I wouldn't hang 2K lbs. off the very tips as per your pic.Forks aren't designed for that purpose,you're going to either bend them or your bucket, or/and that engine you're pulling out might get an oopsy.Your backhoe should be able to pick 2K lbs. and it has the reach and height for sure.Why not just do that?
It would be safer to keep the load suspended, braced by the tie. Move the truck out of the way, set down the skid where the truck was, raise the arms, remove the tie, set the load on the skid. Keep the load as close to the bucket or at the bucket if possible. Everything always seems fine until that one split second where it all turns to crap! Be careful.
Yeah I'm concerned about damage. I was thinking of a way to do the removal at least by myself and using this rig as an engine hoist. If I didn't have a wire, bolt or something that is still attached, I could just pick it out with the backhoe or loader. The 'by myself' part is probably making this more difficult and I getting some help for the final removal part. I'll think about that, I could pull the truck back with a pickup. That last sentence would make a good signature line or whatever they call it.
Trust me--I know EXACTLY what you mean by a 1 horse show.It's called exercise. Going it very slow,raising her a little at a time while you go back and forth to look/adjust a gazillion times.A chain adjuster to change angles/tipping will be your best friend here.
Wood, use wood and 8X8 would do it. I would also use a chain fall hand operated. I have pulled car, truck and boat engines by myself and so far never hurt any one or thing. See the photo, the truss is a doubled up 2X6 section and over 48 feet long weighing in at 1500 lbs. The wood (beefed up 6X6) is clamped and chained to the 8N Ford. In your case you just need a stub sticking out to clear the fenders.
Is your winch rated for lifting? A lot of them are only rated for pulling.
I have no idea how your fork is attached to the bucket but this might be of interest to you. HeavyEquipmentForums I would only say the shorter the stronger everything is. I would look for some way to hoist the thing straight up.
first i would worry about ruining a bucket using clamp on forks or the chain tie back on the back of the bucket, second using the support tie to the ground just creates a fulcrum action that will create lift and tilt forces at the back fo the bucket.....probably 2-3 times the load being lifted due to the fulcrum you might want to consider instead of tieing a chain to the back of the bucket ...taking it all the way over the back of the bucket and tieing it to the load point at the end of the forks, need to make sure you have a heavy enough chain, since that puts all the load on the chain in tension better yet ask a engineer i am not a engineer and am only offering opinions
I don't understand why you can't just hang a good lifting chain off the bucket and pick the engine/trans up even if you have to push the truck back and out of the way by hand. Go in from the side or front which ever is easier. I agree that the RR tie is an accident waiting to happen.
No that is wild and looks like conditions better be right and have a smooth operator. Your right, mine is only rated for pulling. If I do this sort of as planned, I might borrow a chain fall. my forks clamp over the bucket and tighten down c-clamp style. I hear ya on shorter/stronger and straight up. 2-3 times would make it 4000-6000, I don't know if it's a correct comparison but that is at the upper end of the backhoes lifting capacity at 5000lbs. I was thinking of tying the bucket back for leaking down, but you have a good point about taking the chain to the tip. Might do both. I was thinking of trying this by myself and didn't want the backhoe loader bucket or boom to leak down, so that's why I was thinking of chaining the bucket and a rr tie under. If I could get everything disconnected and just hook and lift that might work, maybe I could be that lucky. Can't push the truck by hand at about 8000 lbs, but I could pull it with a pickup. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Here's what I am thinking at this point: >2-3 times the weight is pretty high and that's the input I was after, even if in the ball park. I don't want to damage the backhoe or the truck/engine. >If I can get EVERYTHING disconnected, and supported I might be able to pull it out without all the bracing. >I will likely get everything prepared as much as I can by myself and line up some help to actually remove the old engine and set the donor. As I mentioned before I asked cause I didn't want to go by the seat of my pants and thought I'd ask here just in case someone had tried it before.
Lots of replies on this thread so i figure this project is worth sharing. Combine busted the rear axle in the field. Had to get it to the shed for repair. The combine rear frame had a pull loop to chain to. I cut a hole in the end of each fork so I could attach a clevis. Ran a chain through both clevises, and through the pull loop on the combine. At times the backhoe would lift the rear axle. Had to stretch out the boom and stick to keep the back end down. The forks are rated for 4800lbs i think. Not terribly heavy. Not as strong as fork lift forks for sure, but they are forged forks. Lots stronger than mild steel. The tips bent down a lot, but they came back. I did what you plan to do, i chained the bucket to the loader torsion tube. Broke the chain 2 or 3 times, but that didn't cause any problem, except getting another chain. We drove like this for 500 feet, combine provided the power, backhoe in neutral provided the steering. Load on the fork tips was likely around 2-3000 lbs, maybe more a little more.
Scout, you have answered the question of how to do it. If all you are worried about is bucket leak down or possibly a mistake in dropping the bucket on the truck, provide two RR ties with a third running across just above the fender line. If there is leak down or someone should hit the down leaver, the bucket and only the bucket weight will rest on the ties. The bucket was made to lift, it is the easiest way to go.
Some simple mechanics. You have two things to consider here. First is the moment about the bucket pin. The second is the load applied to the lift cylinders. (actually there are many more things, but i am assuming the cutting edge won't bend, the axle is strong enough, the tires are sound, the forks don't yield, etc etc etc) The way to look at this is to compute the "moment about the bucket pin" for the applied load. 2000# applied vertically at 72" from the bucket pin creates the same moment as 6000# applied vertically 24" from the bucket pin. You have to ask yourself whether your cutting edge, bucket, pins, etc can handle that load, with lots of strength left in reserve. So if you think it can, then you need a chain to counteract that moment, by chaining the bucket to the loader torque tube. Set the bucket and chain up like you think you want it, and use a tape measure to measure from the bucket pin to a point on the chain that is perpendicular to the tape measure (called the perpendicular distance) Lets say its 30". The chain needs to handle 2000x72/30=4800lbs. That's a decent chain. The loader arm thing is a bit more complex. My experience is a loader can support more than enough to lift the back end of the tractor off the ground. That is likely your case as well. But in all honesty, the best way to approach this is to try it with a known weight first. Get something that weighs 2000#, rig it like you want, and start lifting slowly. Watch what happens. You'll figure out pretty quick whether you can do it. Whatever you do, go slow, take your time, act in small increments and pay attention. Better to stop than wreck something, or yourself.
one thing to note is that watglen's forks are done correctly they are not CLAMP ON forks so they have a much higher load capacity think like this picture....
What a thread!:drinkup When you get this all sorted out I sure would like to see some pictures of the final lift. All this about breaking chains, busting tires and hydraulic lines plus bending metal is exciting. Wear heavy gloves, steel toed boots, a hard hat, safety glasses, bullet proof vest and be careful :cool2
By the time you figure it all out and buy the things needed you could just go to Harbor Freight and buy a 4000 lb engine lift (2 Ton Capacity Foldable Shop Crane) to do the job. http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-foldable-shop-crane-35915.html Cost is $220.00. Then when done sell it on craigslist.
watglen- that's a good explanation too and that's what I was looking for. This leans me away from this rig, just not enough of a safety factor. ttazzman-that does resemble what I had in mine... at least the guy wire stuff. Point taken on the flip over forks vs clamp on. bowen- I probably won't be doing this as it seems too dangerous. Besides, I just need to line up a little help and I won't need to make up and test this. I still don't think it would top syndy's picture in post #11, that is awesome. I will still plan to use the personal protective equipment you mentioned though. syndy- I have a front pto off the crankshaft and the frame sets way out so I probably would need to reach to the back half of the engine I'm guessing to center up. At the upper limit of the crane, it's especially short but I could possibly come in from the side. I'm working on gravel so plywood would be necessary to set it up and possibly roll it or else move the truck once it's lifted. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I am going to line up help at least when it comes time to lift out old engine and set donor engine.