Hello everyone, I have a possible solution to very popular "THUMBWHEEL SWITCH" problem that seems to plague these CAT skid-steers. I have managed to REPAIR the one in my 226b. I have also repaired 2 other switches for a couple members of this forum. One member had a 229d and the other had a 257b. I can not promise that i will be able to fix it, only that i will try my best to do so. The repair is only for when the magnet inside the switch has deteriorated or broken off. Basically, what i do is replace the magnet, which is easier said than done. I have been improving my technique and procedure and im at the point that ive got a reliable solution now. So anyone who is interested and willing to send me their switch, PM me and we will go from there. To the Moderators of this forum, i hope im not violating any of the forums rules or policies, as it is not my intention to do so.
Please post photos….!! I think I mentioned this before but can replacement magnets be sourced from anywhere.?
i have to custom cut the magnets to fit inside the switch.
Well done!
OK, so there isn't an off-the-shelf magnet available to fit right in there.? That's a shame.
none that i have found....
Well, let's start with what the forum rules say. Forum rules dictate that HEF is not to be used by a vendor to promote (advertise) goods or services. However, rules allow for a vendor of goods or services to make one introductory post or thread explaining their product or service and can answer questions about that product or service within that thread, additional threads or posts outside the original introductory post about said product or service on the HEF forum is permitted. So, so far it seems you're following the rules with this thread.
thank you
we need more mad scientists with grinders and ingenuity.
No more mad scientists, they created this mess. Some more ingenious critical thinkers would be suffice.
Is there an aftermarket switch available? seems easy to just replace the whole switch. Otto controls has a Hall effect, proportional thumb wheel For under $20. Not sure which output option would work though.
Not as far as we know. The main reason is that the Cat switch has a specific power input requirement of 8v. AFAIK nobody builds a switch of this specification. It’s not just the physical size of the switch but the electrical parameters under which it’s designed to work. There are aftermarket switches but they all seem to be designed for a 5v power supply and will not function on the 8v Cat system as @quiksilvr discovered when he bought one and attempted to install it. It fits fine but won’t give the required output voltage range.
Hmm. Thanks for the info. Seems as though Cat has us by the short hairs by not offering the switch as a separate part. My 257b requires that you maintain a bit of pressure on the thumb wheel to get it to center. Otherwise, the grapple wont stay open or bogs the engine when closed. Quite annoying.
And all the options they offer are designed to work on a nominal 5+/-0.5v DC input voltage.
Yea i looked online and tried to make contact with otto but they never responded. i even purchased one of their switches, $100, in hopes that it would work. but to no avail. if i find out anything new, i will make sure i post it here for everyone.
Maybe you could get into the thumbwheel switch now before the magnet falls apart completely and repair it.?
Ain't neutral able to be calibrated on them rockers?
not as far as im aware of. they do have a calibration wire in the pigtail but its not connected to the switch
My switch has the calibration wire, the violet one, attached to the switch. No idea how to calibrate?
yea i meant to say that the switch has the wire but at the pictail it doesnt connect to anything
Oh ok. That’s what the schematic looks like.
AFAIK that’s only on the PWM controls on later models, not the Hall Effect thumbwheels on the 1st & 2nd generation machines. The calibration wire on the thumbwheel pigtail harness is for a different (non-Cat) application of the switch I think.
So… if there’s a different (non-cat) application would that switch be available somewhere else? any way to determine the manufacturer?
Maybe and no idea, sorry. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Otto manufactured it specially for Cat and the calibration wire is simply part of their “standard” setup.
found out my magnet was half crumbled to bits yesterday, tried to JB weld it back together, no luck. I will try to replace the magnet. any tips on pole direction? i have some round rare earth ones i can make fit
I ended up cutting two tiny square, almost rectangle shape with the tops domed shape. and placing them with similar poles towards the inside (center) so they are facing each other. the magnets dont need to be super strong. just make sure they clear the sensor when u roll the switch in either direction. also make sure not to heat the magnet up when cutting it, it will lose its magnetism
so placing the cut magnet N/S pole in the right direction is not an issue? what kind of glue did you use?
polarity does matter. i used super glue to hold it in place then jb weld in any gaps.for the hard to reach spots try warming the jb weld prior to mixing then pour it in the gaps b4 it cools too much
Are you able to ship just the magnet and I can glue it in?
Tim ill be testing my design in the morning to repair my Hall effect toggle switch off of my Case SR240 skid steer. My Switch is OTTO 21649 1648 HTW-0000060. Ill keep you posted if this design works. Fingers crossed. Still curious on quiksilvr's response...
If that is the case there may be a difference between the two manufacturers. The Cat system powers the Hall Effect thumbwheel switch with 8v and Otto don't sell one, only 5v versions, according to their web site. @quiksilvr bought one of them for his Cat machine and couldn't make it work.
Yes I understand I am taking a magnet approach not necessarily changing the switch. So far no luck.
Hello all. I have contacted Otto and I am currently waiting on an engineer to contact me about the needs of the switch. I will update when I get a response from their engineering department. Is there anyway you could reference the voltages for the switch @Nige ? It is for a 257 gen 1 bobcat.
Also do you know if the switch has 30 degrees of travel or 40 degrees?
I'm afraid I have no information regarding the switches for Bobcat usage. On a Cat machine the switch is powered by 8v. Switch output voltage in with the thumbwheel in the centre should be approximately 4.0v. Roll the switch fully in one direction the output voltage should decrease by 2.4-2.5v. Roll the switch fully in the opposite direction the output voltage should increase by 2.4-2.5v. I'm sorry I don't and have no access to a switch to measure it. Maybe someone else has that information.
Also do you know if the switch has 30 degrees of travel or 40? Otto reached out to me about my enquiry for a new switch. Here is the statement from the engineer. “Our standard thumb wheels aren’t capable of going beyond 5.5 VDC unless otherwise PWM output.” To my understanding the early model 257’s not the 257B do not use a pwm output.. has anyone verified this in any other threads?
@Nige thanks for the timely responses. After talking with the OTTO some more, it went from a can’t to a we could achieve the desired switch input and outputs. On a “custom made” Hall effect switch, if I order a couple hundred a year. So that door is open if someone wants to take it, to possibly be a supplier of them. To the average Joe, the door is closed. With that being said, @quiksilvr what kind of magnet did you use to fix your switch? I saw a picture of the repair you made with the two square cut pieces. Possibly with jb weld in between them? Was that a standard black magnet or was it a neodymium?
Just wanted to add the post that I have a 320D John Deere and it has the same switch and therefore the same issue. I’ve taken it apart and cleaned the magnet up and even shimmed the pins down so as to force the magnet downward. This worked for about an hour but then went back to not working again So I decided that I have nothing to lose by messing g around as I have no aux now. So o mixed up some JB weld and very carefully applied it to the magnet I put in in some forced air heat so as to dry it a bit quick. Once it dried up about 50% I took a blade and smoothed out the JB. Then after letting it dry I carefully samded The JB smooth. Altogether I maybe added a half mil or less to the magnet as well as filled where a little bit had crumbled away. Happy to say that it is working well and I have my aux back. Hopefully it stays working but if it don’t then maybe I’ll add a little more.
Are you still making these? We took apart our joystick and found ours was crumbled as well. Looking for a solution that doesn’t require replacing the whole joystick. Cat 236B
I replaced the joystick in my 299d xhp because my thumb wheel quit working. I'd be willing to mail you the old one if you want another to experiment on.
The position sensor for the thumbwheel roller on C & D Series machines is different to the one on A & B Series. It is a PWM type and has no magnet.
Sure Lance 559-760-6242
Yes please I posted my number and will pay you what it’s worth and shipping. Lance
hi i don't suppose any one would have the cat part number for this thumb switch
The thumb switch is integral to the handle assembly. No breakdown of internal parts.
thanks i was just checking that i covered all possibilities
I need a magnet mine is totally dust
Can I get a magnet from you? Or do you need my thumbwheel? I have no idea the shape I tried a magnet small round one but no luck
Waking this one up. Are you still repairing thumbwheel buttons?
I think these will work for the skid loaders tho i havent had on to try.
I'm not sure. This number came up before, it's for the handle of a track-type tractor. The problem is that it wants/needs a stabilsed ten volt supply, the ECM on the SSL machines only supplies eight volts. Someone thought they had found a commercial solution a ways back but it turned out that switch was designed to be supplied with stabilised five volt power and it refused to work on eight volts. I suspect that the ten volt switch will be the same.
I read on another post that these will not work on the ones with the Hall Effect switch. i have the 226B3 and the magnet was crumbled in my thumbwheel.
That is correct and good that you mentioned it. The switch Tyler indicated above outputs a PWM signal to the ECM, not a varying voltage like the Hall Effect thumbwheel switch on the earlier models of SSL does.
Perhaps i was lied to i dont recall where i ran across the info at i dont think it was here tho
It did come up here before, the machine was a later model equipped with a PWM thumbwheel switch. I'm still a bit surprised that the mentioned Part Number works even when supplied with a significantly lower voltage than the switch allegedly requires to function. HeavyEquipmentForums