Two or three dozer contractors wanted 100.00 hour to clear some land I had. I figured it would take at least 2-3 weeks. I spent $14,000 on a D3B dozer and took my sweet time; about 6 months ( make it last cause it was so much enjoyment and therapy for me after a hard day at the regular job).
That's not a way I ever plan on removing, or allowing one of my people to remove a tree. :badidea:IMO
Then you won't want to read these threads: HeavyEquipmentForums HeavyEquipmentForums
Yair . . . coxey2 . That is crazy stuff, complete and utter B/S. You have no control of that tree whatever, a gust of wind even with no leaves and you are going to get all the bloody therapy you would ever want . . . and what's worse you have the front to post such average practice on the net. Sheesh!!!
It would have been better off cutting the tree down then digging the stump out. You didn't have any leverage advantage with the tree on it. It really is dangerous the way you did it. Probably get away with it 99 times, it's that one time that could kill you. We are not beating on you just letting experience try to help you.
I'm pleased it didn't go wrong, but the pictures will be useful in showing people how not to do it. I hope this prompts some of the guys on here to post pictures of the more sensible methods.
That tree appeared to have a distinct lean and room fall to the lean. IMO that made it a safer practice than a neutral tree. With a throw line, strong rope, and suitable pulling point, you can guy the tree and pull it over with a good deal of accuracy and safety. If you have climbing experience and enough chain, you can pull over impressive sized trees with minimal digging. Here's me on a 4t mini knocking over a larger tree using the first method. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ4fQRwTeI0
How do you like that Kubota mini? I have never seen one because there isnt a dealer around and Kubota has asked Dad and me if we would be interested in taking on their stuff. They are looking for someone that will carry their full line from mowers to ag tractors to their compact construction
the simularity of using a dozer to push a tree is about as far as these threads share likeness. to the OP i hope you know what your doing. do you have any idea what that tree weighs? pj
As has already been said, the only similarity between these threads is the topic of pushing trees down. What coxey2 posted is a very dangerous way to take a tree down of that size with a small dozer. For the sake of the inexperienced that view this forum, it needs to be pointed out that is not the way to safely take a tree down . :cool2
I liked it a good deal, I bought it last Feb, traded it in on a new KX057 in December. I like the 57 a good deal better with the cab and radio, not to mention more power and reach. Kubota has an excellent reputation as a company. Dealers are hit or miss, my local dealer is far less than stellar; I rarely do business with them.
I'm interested in how you pushed it over. There are pictures of it dug out and after it went over. But how did you go about pushing it over? Did you build a ramp or just get up under it and cross you fingers?
Now would be a good to to share some of your experience on how to properly take down a large tree with a small dozer. And try not to be too hard on us inexperienced operators. We all want to learn, sometimes by our mistakes, sometimes by others mistakes, always from the "old guys".
Well I will give him credit on having the theory right, he is just missing a important step. When digging out stumps like that your suppose to cut the tree down first leaving about 3-4 feet of trunk for leverage. If that tree would have gotten away from you and hit the machine you would understand why an expierenced operator gets 100.00 an hour.
Well I would have used the 953 or 321 to take it down but that doesn't answer the question. Like buck fever said, especially if one is taking the grade down this much, first cut the tree and then dig the stump out. I have had trees get away from me before and not fall in the direction I intended using larger equipment on a similar sized tree. I am reminded of one such incident pushing down a tree in tight quarters with a 953, every time I get on my mini, where a limb took out the curved glass at the front of the canopy. Even an experienced operator doesn't get it right every time.:cool2 One has to understand the limitations of the equipment they are operating and plan the job accordingly. I could have dug that stump out with my 334 mini-ex after cutting the tree down but I would have died a slow death of anguish, frustration and physical exhaustion in the process.
Yair . . . I suppose I went off a bit . . . but I saw red and my #4 post was completely non constructive. I had posted to coxey2 that for a few dollars worth of scrap steel he could knock up something similar to this . . . . This is just a picture from the net and to my mind the spear could be longer . . . it makes no difference when pushing dirt and can stop sticks coming over the back of the blade when piling brush. With a proper canopy it is far better to push trees rather than battling with cut off stumps, you can use the weight of the tree to get it rocking . . . often it is best to watch the shadow to get "in time" on the shifter or the clutch. Generally speaking it is normal practice to push a tree against its lean . . . that is to say you push from side where it is leaning towards the tractor, there is more purchase ant they mostly tip our easier that way. Cheers.
Scrub I doubt that D3B would push over that tree no matter what kind of tree pusher is fitted without a fair amount of digging around the stump.
I've been there & done that . You have a smaller piece of equipment at a job site and there's that one big tree that needs to come out . Cant justify moving in another larger piece of equipment for one tree so you dig and dig and dig for half a day getting it out . I don't like to do it but have in the past . All tree work is dangerous regardless what equipment a fella is using or size of the tree . Large trees look intimidating but a small 2 inch sapling can be just a deadly if impaled by it . Any more if in doubt I hook a winch line on the trunk to assist pulling & help guide the tree in the proper direction . http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/td25c/media/Treeremoval022_zps5907303a.mp4.html? [user]=138653211&[recent]=1&...
Yair . . . CM1995 For sure mate, that's a big lump of wood which makes the O/P methods all the more frightening. And of course there are ways and means of digging . . . can't say I have ever seen anyone reduce the ground level around a tree to that extent though. (big grin) From where I sit typing this I can see a tree larger than the tree in question that I have no doubt could be pushed by a D3 with a pusher . . . another fifty feet away not so much. If it ever rains again I am going to put a wire rope around that second tree about thirty feet from the ground and I have every expectation I can pull it with a fifty horse wheel tractor. I have never been shy to put a rope up a tree, it is mostly easier on the gear and can save a lot of time. Digging can be a bit of a mixed blessing, if you dig a single trench you are still standing on the roots . . . that is another advantage of a tree pusher of course, it puts the tractor back a little from the trunk. If a very large tree has to come out and no rope is available I mostly cut two trenches intersecting at an angle leaving just enough ground to stand on. I leave the dirt piled so that as the tree falls the heft and weight of the trunk and branches will to some extent lift the root ball clear of the hole . . . it is easy with big timber to get into the situation where you get the tree down okay but it's a struggle to get it out of the hole. Another thing to watch is getting jacked up by the root ball. As soon as the tree starts to fall back out of there quick as a big root can get up behind the blade and pull the tractor forward sit it on its arse. Cheers.
It almost appears that this thread has been hijacked into a tree removal thread. I think once the poor practace was pointed out a couple times we should get back on track or split the thread into two different threads and directions. Poor guy has to feel ganged up on. Now that it has been clearly pointed out that the tree removal was not the best method, lets talk about the joy he had and satisfaction of doing the job himself.
TD25, i was affraid your truck was rolling away there at the end lol........ prolly should mention to readers that its wise to use a cable longer than the tree is tall as well haha DirtHauler, thanks for geting us back on dad . threads dont always stick to the OP that's the great thing about forums.... DISCUSSION ! get used to it. if there is a problem there are some great MODS (some even "super mods" ) on here to take care of it, I feel that the Thread is very on track, we are talking about trees and removal of said items,,,,, i have not seen any post of anyone talking about harley's or muscle cars yet so I would say we're doing pretty good lol Pj
Hey td25c, care to tell us a bit about that truck? Can't say that I recognize it.
so how did you get it down. rope?
I did cut it a little close powerjoke . My big concern was that tree hitting the truck and knocking the ugly off of it It's a 1969 FWD wilco. We had just got the winch mounted at the time and was looking for something to tug on . Old dying maple tree by the house needed to come down . I thought coxey2 done a nice job dealing with the tree with equipment on hand. Been there & done it.
When you do this, be sure to give a report with some photos of how it all goes. I have tried to pull down a pine tree that was roughly 40 feet high with a chain about 20 feet up from the ground with a 90hp dozer. All it did was break the chain. Not saying you won't be successful but I would be interested to see a 50hp wheel tractor do anything much at all.
I know you have spent a lot of time clearing trees, and I am not disputing your experience or knowledge, but this is a dangerous way to do it, having the tree leaning towards the tractor. If it works and you push it over in one go, then all well and good. But if you push on it and loosen it, but can't quite push it over, and have to reverse away and have another go at it, you may have broken enough roots for it to be unstable. You have placed yourself underneath a leaning tree which is now loosened and unstable. If it wants to fall, you are under it. Not where I would want to be that's for sure. The safest way that I can see to attack a leaning tree is push with the lean. Then if things go wrong gravity is more likely to take it away from where you have the tractor placed. Wind speed and direction also has to be taken into account, and of course there are places where it is not practical to do things the ideal way.
Yair . . . Plant Fitter . A couple of points. That pine tree, I assume you tried to get it rocking, gentle gentle to begin with and then when you get the timing and the top is swaying back towards you give it the works. I ask because there seems to be an assumption around here (these days) that a tractor just drives/walks up to a tree and pushes it over . . . some of the stuff I saw on the tube a few years back was quite amusing. As regards the leaning tree, what is going to happen? If it moves and you can feel a couple of roots break but you can't push it "over centre" just ease back nice and gentle and see what happens if it sticks back off and hit it a bit lower at a finer angle. If follows you that's fine, back off a few feet and hit it again screwing left or right which ever is the most advantageous. I will add here that these comments are directed at general paddock clearing, with a treespear and adequately guarded tractor. I appreciate and understand your comments but really, this stuff becomes second nature. In some blocks of South Western box and Yellow Jacket country operators took out hundreds of two to three foot diameter trees per shift . . . they double teamed five plus footers just for kicks. The idea of course is not to push them over . . . just tip them a little off balance and leave them for the chain. If they fall it can be a pain as they can get tangled up and drag. When that happens one of the tractors has to clatter back over the chain and sort out the mess. I would add too that the timber is growing in different conditions and quite possibly many of our species may push easier than those in moister climates with better soil. Cheers.
Just a follow up on what scrub said about pushing a leaning tree. A leaning tree will have most of it's root ball on the windward side, so pushing with the lean is generally harder because the tractor is on the main anchor roots. I too have pushed some big trees with a d4 and spear, ripping and building a ramp. Where there's a will there's away. Cheers. Bill
Yair . . . 8k bill True enough, and the other thing that happens is the tree pusher may fail to bite and try and slide up the tree if its on much of a lean . . . I suppose I should have said push any way except with the lean. (big grin) If you push from the side there is a bit of a twisting moment on leaners that can help. Cheers.
I think the OP must still be at church thanking his blessings, he has not been back,
No, I left the church when I found out about the "Clergy Response Teams" more information at infowars.com on that front.... I score it 4 to 6 somewhat positive to grossly negative respectively. Everything is relative-relative to one's experience. I did this everyday at my old job using 2 D11s and 2 994 loaders doing conventional surface mining before we shot the high-wall. Left that job a few years after Clinton gave the coal industry to China (further details see Nafta.) It seemed relaxing to do something similar with less... kinda like using a recurve bow to hunt rather than using a gun. For all of the experts here: I hope I did not draw any revenue away from your excavating businesses by encouraging newbe dreamers to buy a lower priced dozer and have some good experiences... (hey, bad economy for us all right?) I do agree this method is not the correct way to remove a tree that large, and should only be attempted by the most experienced operators if attempted at all....many of the scaving responses here detail safe and proven methods for tree removal; please follow their advice. grandma always said: "poor people have poor ways"... regards
Good for you Coxey, I could see that this would come to a head. It may not be the best way to skin a cat but there are a million ways to do it. No one can say that they always have the right piece of equipment for the job. There is quite a bit of nick picking here in the forums so don't take it personally. The problem is, you may not want to continue to share. The problem is there are a million armchair quaterbacks here on HEF. Many have never posted pictures of their work so none of us really no much about them. This is kind of the American way, getting by with what you have. Regards, CD
I've done similar things with a dozer , but I prefer a gun over a bow. That's just me. I have a smaller mid size dozer and have done lots of things with it that most would not do with a machine that size. But its what I can afford and make money. I've dug 1 acre plus ponds with my machine , its a D39 Komatsu same size as a D5G , yeah it took a while but I got it done and at an economical price. Didn't have to have an 8500 gallon tanker parked on the job either. None the less watch you a** when doing such and have someone around just in case. On a more positive note I'd like more pics and feedback on how those pads work and your soil type , looks somewhat sandy loam. Up where I am , you push the blade down and start a cut and you can feel the clay pushing back if the moister is high enough. Then there's the rock. My grandma said the same thing .
Yair . . . Colorado Digger and others. I think the point has been made that unsafe practice should not be posted. That tree could have been dug and ramped (or roped) down safely with the equipment available. Cheers.
Actually it was a good learning experience for our inexperienced Members and people who just read this Forum and may not even post. It shouldn't be discouraged to post pics of your doings but be prepared to take criticism if it's warranted, after all we're all grown adults and we are here to discuss HE and the in's and out's of it's operation - the good, the bad and the ugly. Coxey2 took it on the chin like a champ and we had a good discussion of the practice of taking trees down - that's what we are all here for.
Yair . . . CM1995 . Fair enough, that's another way to look at it. (wry grin) Cheers.
im still trying to figure out how he ran 2 d11's and 2 994's at the same time lol pj
This thread doesn't need anymore sarcasm.:cool2
I would hate to see a new member scared off but I would also hate to see one killed. Operating ain't a game. Looks like he got it done.
My comment was not in an effort to be critical... I'm terrified at the thought that the operator got out from under the ROPS and took pictures. I think it is a strong virtue to be capable of producing a lot with a little, but this would've been a better match with a smaller investment: http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9706353 I have taken down large trees with a D3C... I cut the roots on the side I'm pushing from, then backfill and ramp dirt up that side of the trunk until I have the necessary advantage to push it over. If your experience tells you the situation was fine, I am not here to second guess that, but I would caution anyone with less experience to seek out alternate equipment or methodology. Cheers to a clean getaway :drinkup
Coxey2 , no disrespect meant, it's been way to long since I've been to church and I surely must be out of blessings. Ive always had more to do with the wrong tools and keep doing it, just as the years go by and now I watch my boys ( god love them ) doing it the way they learned , they tell mama I should be a damn preacher. My hats off to all who are out tryin to make a go at it and not signin up for the big hand out. Hope everyone remembers who ( younger ) might be watch in what were doing, Overworked
What would have done different. Ya should of only cut the dirt away from 3 sides of the tree and used the dirt you cut to build a ramp up the 4th side. Drove up the ramp and pushed the tree down.
$14000? Was the pad type a major part of getting that price? Every time I look for a crawler $20k will get you a leaker with a few missing gears and easy pin inspection via holes in the bushings (AKA 80% UC). There was a td15 with 1500 original hours, shed kept for $15 but I always get "Ummm that's sold". Funny it is still on the website 6mo later. Sorry for the rant, but I am not good at the "buying 'em right". Too bad a fresh thread couldn't pop up?
Well, since I seemed to have broken even on the criticism...let me be more honest and clarify a few points: We not I alone never use the 11's to clear unless we were just messing around. The companies I worked for don't use 11's, 10's or 9's even to clear cause it would cost too must if we broke one. We always cleared with D8's and 6's mostly. The timber was already cut and sold, so it was mostly stumps. The 11's and 994's were used to move shot and spoil for the dragline. The 8's were mostly used to build benches for the dragline. We cast shot the high wall at angles so the 11's and loaders could quickly move it to help the dragline (if one was on site). Operator you say? Here's how we grow em in KY...
I really appreciate the comment CM1995 made 9 or 10 posts ago. I have a Komatsu D21 that I use on a small farm and I have learned a lot by just reading what everyone else has to say. DO NOT miss any opportunities to teach others on this site. It just may be all the "learning" we get and it could save a life. Thanks to everyone. Kentuckyboy
Colorado, you seem like a good guy. I can appreciate you saying that. Coxey, I appreciate your determination in getting the tree down. We all have our thoughts. Trees can be incredibly tough to push over. I've dug 360 degrees around a lot of trees much deeper than what you have shown in the picture and they still don't want to move. Some roots grow outward and some grow straight down. Then you have droughts and hard ground conditions etc.. Knowing where the weight of the tree is leaning and always test pushing it to see if it's still strongly rooted. It looks much worse when you actually cut the grade down like your pic, but that's essentially what's being done with an excavator. I would love to have a dozer like yours. I admire you for taking on the projects. Mainly it just looks fun and we'd all be lying if we said this stuff wasn't fun. Anyway, keep posting pictures. I've liked all your pictures already.
Keep the pictures coming, Coxey. The Big equipment, I mean...
I appreciate your input. What's surprising to me is that no one so far has seen the whole picture of that big sycamore tree being removed. Some have commented about how much dirt had been removed, when in fact the tree was setting on top of a pond earthen dam. I pushed the dam into the pond and what was remaining was that big tree setting on top of what was left of the dam. That tree set there in quarantine for two weeks and never fell, so I helped along....those pyramid pads work great on sloppy terrain but due to the leverage of their width, they can put stress on the sprockets (that you can definitely hear) when you get the tractor on the side of a slope.
I went the all things dirt pod cast. How does it work; all I heard was music?
Some people write what they do because they care, others because they don't know any better, others to try and start a feud etc. Then along comes someone like Colorado Digger and says something truely positive. I too admire the way you did the job. Got it done with what you have. And from what I can see,nobody was in danger except,maybe, your self. Way to go. Cheers Lowbed Driver
That tree was so heavy that I had to use the blade to lift it to get to move; too much friction; the tracks would spin. Once it got moving no problem...
@coxey2 Thanks for checking it out! and yeah... I'm still learning to edit them in a tasteful fashion... I'm working on the tone/sound quality, and the intro music is too long I fear (+/- 1:25) If you skip to around minute 1:30-1:40 I begin jabbering about whatever the episode is about. I'm still learning, I published my 6th episode this week so it's kind of in it's infancy, but I love to listen to podcasts on itunes or stitcher on my phone while I'm working and driving so I figured I would give it a shot about something I'm passionate about. Thanks for checking it out, and please listen, share, and hit me with your true feedback. Just bear in mind that not everyone who is interested in, or loves equipment and dirt has a lot of experience. Also, if you have any good ideas of where to promote it I would love to hear them.
That explains allot coxey2 . At first I was scratching my head if the big sycamore grew on a knoll of some kind and you just removed the dirt around it to topple the tree . I did notice you done a nice job removing the dirt keeping it smooth & level around the trees . The picture looks like creek bottom ground where sycamore trees like to grow. They have a pretty good tap root on the bottom and manage to glue themselves pretty tight to the earth seeking water . Just about always have to dig around them before attempting to push up high on the trunk even with a big excavator as if you don't the tree will break about 6 to 8 feet above the ground leaving the stump still intact.
Awesome way to take down the tree, Dozerboy. You are pro. I will never forget the story about you and pushing those Torey Pines. Awesome, bro, keep up the great work and I hope to see you back in the wrecking seat soon (although sounds like you won't get to knock down the Astrodome since it is a hysterical landmark now LOL). They can keep it. Money pit.
nothing but healthy and constructive discussion in this thread as far as I can tell - best aspect of this site is the civility and expert support - best site I've seen in that regard........by far
I hope she wasn't the one who bent the handrails on the RH rear corner.....:tong That's an old 994 too. Does it still have the steering wheel or converted to STIC..?
Wheel is the size of your car. trans selector/Fwd Rev on the left of wheel. Dump/Hoist on rt console. With torq converter lock on top on hoist. Throttle lock on toggo switch . Trans neutralizer far lft pedal. Simple to run; just can't see in tight areas....