Question... I am curious how equipment is distributed among a typical earthmoving staff. In other words, does everyone tend to be able to "run everything" but fit into their own piece of equipment? Is it a seniority thing, ability, etc? And what are the most talent demanding operations? My guess would be start on rock trucks and loaders then everyone wants to operate the shovel?? Dozers? Graders? Just curious how the typical hierarchy works. Your thoughts?
I've heard finish grader operator as requiring the most skill.
I can tell you right now, nobody wants to run a shovel. It personally doesn't fit my hands near as well as a lever with a engine behind it. I think you're talking about a excavator though.... The worst people on a site are the crane guys, we take the only nice flat spot in front of the building. Lay everything out all around, everyone is in our way, and they all have to move. We're a bunch of prima donna's.
Loader operators have certain skills that also relate back to dozers and vis versa, A good dozer operator can hit grade pretty easily and slick, so too a decent loader operator where each have drawbacks. A Excavator is its own animal, operates different, functions different but a talent in the cab can move a bottle without breaking it. Each operator tends to get used to the machine they prefer, some will not set and pound in a crawler, some prefer articulated wheel machines all a flip of the coin to some of us that ended up working on most any and all of them. Mechanic, now there is a prima donna!! I be one of them! Operator screws up our work we are on them like stink to a turd!
Haha, thanks for the replies guys. Crane no...don't have the patience for that.
When the PUMP GUY gets on site,, EVERYBODY WATCHES.. Overheard the last time I was "on site">> Whos THAT GUY?? He's the pump guy.. Whats wrong w/ the hydro's now?? NO, the injector pump guy.. OH.. Whats he doin?? He's workin "ON THE BRAAAIN".. {strong Southern accent} "That thars the BRAAAIN".. "You GOTTA BE a smart sum bit*h to be workin on the braaain"... LOL!!!!
Well with my small operation we've all gravitated to the machines we like the best and in turn are most productive on. All my guys but one can get in and run every piece of equipment we have - now that is running it not necessarily operating it and being productive. Our two supers and I can operate with efficiency any piece of equipment we have, that ability among many other abilities and skills is why we are management. A machine is just a tool, knowing how to use that tool to complete a job in a safe, efficient and profitable manner makes the difference in the person. Our hoe operator and mechanic (we're a small company) can run a hoe very well be it clearing, grading, loading trucks, etc and then fix any machine we have - he's 4th in line in the hierarchy. He's also a great ditch man laying pipe and can make a nice mortar invert. We have two other guys that have different skills that are just as important to the operation. One can operate anything we have but is not proficient on any of them. He is a good support operator on a pipe laying operation bringing stone, pipe, etc with a backhoe, track loader or skid steer, knows how to rig and can lay pipe. If you are laying pipe you need that guy. Other guy has limited equipment experience but is young and a damn hard worker, willing to do whatever you ask him to do. We can train him, what we can't train or instill is the work ethic. The battle is 7/8 over with this kid. That's the way my small company has shaken out, it's an art as much as a science. The supers and I discuss who is more proficient with what and more importantly what the guys enjoy doing. If a man enjoys what he is doing he will be more proficient at the task at hand. Personally my favorite machine is a 953, second a hoe and third a CTL. I can run a dozer but I'm not as proficient as one of the supers, he's one slick blade man.
Thx CM1995, All good info!
This one kind of got out of hand so You can skip it if you are not a retired old guy with nothing better to do like me! ----------------------------------------------------------- Well I should not even be replying here but that never stopped me from poking in when I should have kept to myself. I never considered myself an operator of any machine, but I did know how to do the basic things with just about everything in the quarry. Spent 98% of the 40+ years swinging wrenches. My biggest weakness other than not being able to productively operate equipment was my lack of experience with that sparky thing on the end of the heavy wire. I have to put most of the blame on the way the shop's work force was set up before I hired on. See the boss that set up the shop decided that welders welded and mechanics worked with wrenches. As there was always a "welder" right across the shop if something needed being hot glued you just handed it to him and were careful when he handed it back as it might still be hot! Now I did do a bit of work with the "blue-tip wrench" as sometimes exhaust nuts needed a little encouragement. And one in a while when "real welders" were building bins or chutes and needed someone to run the self propelled torch(turtle as they called it) to cut some panels to size I would get to play with that, kind of like using a tool you could just point in the right direction on it's track and stand back and watch it work! Never could get my torque wrench to do that on a set of heads! Over the years I did get so I could run a machine of just about any type in the quarry if only so I could work them enough to know they were either not working right at the start and then again after trying to fix them know if it had been in fact a success. Driving a haul truck in quarry was the most common of my jobs running equipment, must not have done too bad as I did get that job often when some one was sick or there was a need for an extra truck doing stripping or stock pile work. Trucks always stayed rubber side down and made it back to the parking area at the end of day. More than I can say for the regular operators! Loading company trucks with front end loaders also happened at times. Like when the main pit loader operator hit a deer on the way to work and the working group leader was not going to be in for an hour or more. I jumped in and took off loading from the quarry face for a couple hours. I'm sure production was down a bit but at least when boss got in that morning there was stone coming off the conveyors. No stones in cabs or broken windows so guess that could be considered a success. Front end loader was still on all fours when I got out. Again more than I can say for some regular operators! Skid steers and road sweepers were also something that I did use quite a bit. Did do a lot of snow removal in winter with the skidsteers. For some reason not very often did someone want to bump you from that job, might be due to the open cabs on most of the ones we had! Guess to get all the rambling on somewhat back on topic I would have to say the size of an operation would be a major factor in who runs what. Just in rough terms an operation with say 12 or less people having everyone able to run just about all equipment would be important with the best operators kept to their best jobs. Now if say you have a work force of 30 or more people you might tend towards a more specialized application of men to machines. Also I'm thinking that the type of operation you have would also have a bearing on the amount of "specialization". In the quarry where I worked in many ways each individual job was more or less the same the day I retired as 45 years ago when I stated. Haul trucks, loaders and stock trucks might be newer and have more bells and whistles but stone sill came from the same stone face, maybe a bit further from the crusher every year but not that much different. Now some of you guys could see a job go from putting in a road in an upscale housing development one day then two days latter be working on a foundation project for a major warehouse then next week building a pond for a fish farm or building a small town airport. So the type of machines you are doing your work with on Monday could be completely different to what you need to be using on Friday and who knows what you will need the next week. In cases like that you would need a work force that could get out of the seat of one type of machine and get in a different one the next day.
No hierarchy in my small operation . Life is to short to put up with that . LOL Football coach in high school gave me the " life speech " one time . TD ....... you got the rest of your life to work , come play ball with us ! Sorry coach ......... Got a good after school gig working for a farmer that pays me to wrench , weld ,operate equipment & drive trucks ............ " With all due respect coach , why would I give that up to chase a ball around a field ? " Coach was speechless . LOL !
I've worked in small coal mines and traveled around a lot of construction and logging sites over the years always as a mechanic or some sort of management staff. It's funny that this question comes up because the coal mines seemed to run on a hierarchy more than any other type of job. There is a mine foreman running around in a pickup all day long trying to keep the ants in line but should he be tied up in the far reaches of the mine the wheel loader operators are next in line. The mine operator's logic is that one wheel loader might be keeping four or five trucks running at one time. Shut the loader down and the mine essentially shuts down with those truck drivers standing around jawing while still on the payroll. The loader or shovel operators were paid the most and had the ability to make decisions on how to work the face to keep production moving. Next on the tier were the cat skinners. Shut the dozer down and the loader could still run for a time, usually until the dozer was back up or another dozer could be brought to the face. Truck drivers were usually kids short out of high school that ran the trucks like they were go carts and invincible. That is where most of the dumb damage would happen. Drillers were usually put somewhere in the cat skinner pay range and so were the grader operators. Mechanics were treated like a necessary evil and the owners would try to pay them the same as truck drivers. Never mind that they worked with their own tools and basically the quality of the maintenance staff had more control over mine profits that any other group. If you were good you could leverage more money. If you weren't very good you tended to end up on the push broom, pressure washer, grease gun or drain pan helping the oiler. Coal mines were not what I would ever consider a top notch career path for someone not carrying some type of college paper.
That college paper thing seems to be a major problem at least from what I see in this USA today. Now I have no problem with someone who has a plan that "really" needs a degree, say doctor, architect, engineer or even the sometimes useless lawyer types. But way too much weight is put on that "degree" thing. Sure you might need someone like the architect or engineer to design that bridge or building but it also takes many more people with hands on knowledge to build the forms for the foundation and before that you need some skilled operators to drive piles or dig the footers. You also need skilled people like craneoperator to set beams and trusses and if the crane or any machine needs repairs or just normal maintenance you need the mechanics and welders. But why do people like the coach td25c had or the (miss)guidance counselors always make those jobs sound like they are only for the guys and gals who need to take off their socks to count past 10? Does the person working next to that crane picking 40 tons of steel really want to think that the guy who last worked on it has trouble remembering if it's "righty tightey" or is that "lefty tightey?"
What I am saying is the no one in a coal mine makes much money unless they have a title of mining engineer. All the construction people that came to work in those places came to work making less money per hour in the hopes of working all year long. All of them went back to construction after a few years doing the grind in the mud and dust.
My own Grandfather worked Lead Mines S. Central MO, left when he turned 16 as had enough underground, became a welders helper at a oil refinery. Swore only way would go back into a hole was to be buried, he made that.
Hansen, I know of way too many engineers(we call then Enga's) that could not run a crane as they know How it works and what Makes it work but they Cannot Work. Simple point a Sheepskin is almost useful to wipe your own ass if you don't really use the material you studied to get it. Had trainees under me that were "In Awe" that I did not have a degree and 'Managed to Become A Plant Operator" , earned them great bonus points and lost them any and all respect I would have developed had they developed. I avoided them there after leaving them to the Fartsmellers that knew the plant better then me until they didn't. If you can imagine I have a few that still call me as to what I can remember! I am working at removing those brain cells every evening!!
And now I hear that trump is going to appoint a coal company executive to head up MSHA. Not saying I agree with all the rules MSHA has on the books but the main reason someone felt the need to invent MSHA was the lack of regard for the safety safety of coal miner by those executives!
We need MSHA and we need OSHA but at some point they need to come to their senses. Hiring some help that actually held a related job at some point in their life instead of relying on nothing but an education that was taught by teachers that never worked any other job would be a start.
OIH, I always felt that an engineer needed to spend time in the field on a shovel to learn how jobs actually get done. Then get the degree and design them. We all know you can make anything work on paper, but the real world isn't made of paper. In all my years on jobs, I only worked with one project engineer from Michigan who understood this. His words to me were, " the book is written in black and white, but if you hold it out to arms length, it all goes gray. We are going to build this road, and we will do it right. But things change, and we will just work with them and around them. At the end of the day, WE ALL GO SAFELY HOME. And that's all that matters." One of the finest Human Beings I ever had the joy to work with...
Like the company engineer back in the late `60's who when my brother was complaining about all the time he was spending cleaning under conveyors in the then new quarry plant. Engineer had told him it was designed as a "spillage free plant" told him "Well it worked on paper!"
Well at least a few inspectors in this area are not bad. One spent several years as a mechanic for the company I worked for, I personally had spent a good amount of time working beside him, a good guy. Most of the others I met were pretty fair as long as you met them with the right attitude. Then again just like in any kind of job where "enforcement" is what it is about you will find those at various levels who get a kick out of using the power they have at their command. On a slightly different track is the way the company "safety training" changed over the last several years. Seems 90% of it was focused on how to avoid getting citations as apposed to how to avoid getting hurt.
Oh Yeah, today is the age of ZERO tolerance to actions that will get anyone hurt including yourself. Follow the rules, coach the rules, be a honorable example of the rules and the inspectors play fairer.