I am still in the planning phase for an excavation type pond. The pond location if out in the middle of our native grass field, so there are not really any "job site" constraints. I therefore would like to know the most productive way to spoil the material taken from the pond excavation. After I know the most "productive" way, I can then plan the best way for final appearance, etc. at my pond. Assume a round, 1-acre pond, with a 12' maximum depth. Will be placing the spoils just beyond the perimeter of the pond with a gentle enough slope for bush hog mowing. Spoils will be slightly sandy clay. Portions will be wet material. Dozer will be a D6N or D6T. My basic question: Is it more productive to push out or to push up? Just considering the profile for simplicity, should the spoils berm be 100' wide and 5' high? Or 25' wide and 20' high? (Which is the same amount of material.) I assume some level of building "up" is more efficient than making longer pushes. If so, what determines the most productive height of the berm for a given size of dozer? Also, if building the berm upwards, what is the proper slope for the dozer to be climbing up the pile? Thanks for any help! Rod
Edit: I have clicked on a few threads in the "Dozers" forum. It appears that most of the discussions are about buying, sizing, or repairing dozers. Should I move this post over to "General Industry Questions"?
Is the berm going all the way around the pond ? Pond going to be circular or oblong ? There are a lot of variables that will have an effect on how long it takes. The shape of the berm really depends on what you want it to look like when it is finished. I would not be concerned about the time it takes, rather what it will look like when it is done. If it is good material a high berm as opposed to wide berm won't make much difference. time wise. A wide berm will create more travel time for the dozer. 4/1 slope or flatter would be my choice for easy mowing. I don't know what the pond slopes will be but consider putting a safety bench at least 6 feet wide all the way around it, no deeper (lower) than 6 feet from the top.
Thanks for the reply, Tinkerer. This is the same pond project you gave me some good advice previously - for sealing as I come out of the good bottom clay up onto the leaky overburden. I originally wanted to excavate the pond using only a dozer. However, I have talked to a few more dirt guys and they said the wet clay on bottom is going to require an excavator. I am trying to determine the right size equipment to pair together, and how to run the operational pattern. I am definitely NOT going to build a 25' high berm ringing the pond. I just want some of the experts to give me their 2 cents regarding the best productivity of building out the spoils berm, and then I will use that info to modify my plans to fit this specific project.
I'm not an expert. I did spend 30 years on dozers. You may need a LGP D-6 to get that stuff away from the backhoe and up on the berm. That bottom would have to be really nasty material to prevent a wide track 6 from pushing it out. The height of the grouser bars can be killer in wet material if they have a lot of wear on them. You could excavate a section from the center of the pond about 20 feet wide or wider and then make a judgment on how you want to build the berm the most efficient way. What I mean is take it down to grade and cut the pond slope. Then you will be able to determine how to build the berm with that quantity and type of material. Wet sticky clay and sticky black dirt can be a bit## to get off a dozer blade going up a very steep slope. Many times I backed down a slope with half the material I pushed up, was still stuck to the blade.
Do as he suggests above and then you will know the enemy. Remember that the first casualty after contact with the enemy is the plan. You can overthink/plan it, but until you get your blade or bucket into it you really won't know. if the stuff is bad enough you could stick a dozer trying to push it out, and that gets expensive fast. In that case plan on doing all the material elevating with the excavator and hope you can push it away when you get it on top. I'd start with a hoe at the uphill end of the pond, if there is one, and cut that slope and see how the stuff is. If it is pushable, get the dozer there cut what you can and then finish and cast behind you with the hoe and push it to the left/right with dozer and shape as you go.
Have a dragline handy?
skyking, That is pretty close to my plan. I am trying to have the dozer avoid "pushing out" of the pond. Going to cast to the side for the dozer and leave him up on the high ground as much as possible. When the slot gets too wet, I will have him move over and see how long he can push in a new slot.
Nope, but that is a good idea for this situation. Do they sell draglines on Amazon with free shipping? Actually we do have two dragline ponds on the farm. Both are about 0.1 acres. Judging by the size of the surrounding cottonwood trees they are probably 80 years old. Unfortunately, they are both in the floodplain so I am not allowed to change their dimensions. In those locations, I am pretty sure the operator also had to deal with wet, unconsolidated sand in addition to the wet clay. I think they could have ONLY been built with a dragline back in that time.
Rod, I have had a similar, though smaller dam to what you describe, (all excavation and no wall) built a few of years ago and am planning another of similar design, (by necessity, not by choice). On the next dam I have to decide where to put the spoil also, so I am interested to see the replies to your basic question, "push up or push out". Thanks for posing the question, it is a good one. I can just tell you what I did on our dam. The spoil was partly run out to zero downstream of the excavation (there was a slight fall on the construction site) and partly used to build a platform 40 metres by 30 metres about 1.5 metres high, just adjacent to and downstream of the excavation. The platform is handy for stock to use if it floods. Our dam is on a floodplain and although the top metre is alluvial soil there is clay at depth, it works very well so far. To build our existing dam the contractor used a Caterpillar bulldozer D6R with a semi U blade and rear rippers. Dam dimensions 60m by 40m at full water level with 3:1 batters and 5 metres deep. Smaller excavated volume to yours (5,625m3) and roughly rectangular. It took about 30 hours of machine work. Where I am we definitely need the rippers.
Thanks Dugandan. I hope your pond is getting the right amount of water! I think building the berm or platform 1.5 meters (5 feet) high would be really easy with a D6 size dozer. However, I don't want my spoils berm built out that far from the edge of the pond. I was hoping to go a little higher - maybe 8-10 feet. Obviously, a D6 can "push up" to that level, I just wanted some input from the experienced operators on the easiest way to do things. (If there is a "hard" way to do a task, I usually manage to start out that way until I slowly work my way up the learning curve.) I do have a construction buddy that says the good blue clay at the bottom of the site definitely requires rippers, but then can be worked fairly easily - if it is dry! If it is wet, then you have to bring in an excavator.