Hi all I have a 96 EX 100-2 that all of a sudden developed very slow hydraulic movements in basically all functions including tracking. Speed picks up for a split second when using multiple functions at the same time or letting off controls and then trying them again. Fuel lines are all clear. Changed hydraulic filters and puppet filters all seems clean. Any ideas?
Welcome to HEF RPMex ! Are you handy mechanically? I usually recommend swapping the solenoid valve assemblies on top of the hydraulic pump to see if your hydraulics change to a more aggressive nature. If you swap just the wires to the hydraulic pump solenoids does the engine want to stall?
Good morning and thank you so much for taking the time to reply. When I swapped the solenoid wires there was no change. I put them back and unplugged the DP sensor and the hydraulics seemed to work better. I’m okay mechanically and have service, parts, and operators manuals. At no point does my engine seem to stall out or bog down like it’s under load
An unplugged DP sensor will put the pumps to full stroke. I would suggest swapping the solenoid valve assemblies first to see if your situation changes because those solenoids have a history of failure.
No change when solenoids are swapped I still have very very very slow hydraulics
1. All fuses good? 2. Has the pilot pressure been checked with a gauge? 3. Have you checked for codes (procedure in TM1504, section 9025-25)? 4. Do you have or know someone with MPDr or Dr Zx diagnostic equipment?
Good morning, I have checked all the fuses and they are all fine. As well as most all the wiring I can’t see anything that looks burnt or damaged do to age. As far as the others it would be a no. Thursday I plan to check the pilot pressure. I’m not sure what TM1504 is the manual I downloaded online doesn’t have pages numbered like that hopefully I didn’t download the wrong one ex 100-2 technician manuals are hard to find for me for some reason. I also don’t have a Dr Zx but sounds like it would be worth picking one up this week to help trouble shoot. Does that plug directly into the EC & PCV. I ordered a DP sensor and high speed solenoid to hopefully help eliminate some options. Thanks a lot for your help I’ll work on these steps and keep you posted.
Sorry, that is the incorrect manual I listed. That is a Deere manual. It should plug into the 4 pin connector down and behind the right arm rest. If you go to section 7, page T07-02-06 there is a picture of the Dr ZX connector and the machine connector. Looking into the machine connector, if you short the 2 terminals on the right together (#2 and #4) and then key on, the blink light on the PVC will flash codes if there are any (codes will be either single digit or 2 digits). If no codes the PVC light will remain off. Fault codes can be found beginning on page T07-03-03.
Nice thanks for the info I will get my hands on a Dr Zx and keep you posted
Hi mg2361 I’ve made some headway on my ex100-2 but am still struggling with some faulty hydraulics I have replaced both pump solenoids and now instead of all my hydraulics being very slow my hydraulics are slow tracking and my main boom is still slow and will not pick up a full bucket of dirt. However they are both still better than before I replaced the solenoids. I received a Dr Zx and have plugged it into the 4 pin plug under the right arm rest but it still will not communicate with my machine. The plug connection seemed tight. I read on one post about needing an adaptor from JD do I need this for a Dr Zx? No where in the Dr Zx can I find the model ex100-2 although it says it will work for these machines is there a certain setting I need to be on?
Was pilot pressure checked? I have never seen or used the DrZx. I use MPDr. Maybe @LACHAU can shed some light on this situation?
I haven’t checked the pilot pressure yet but it’s next in my list. test kit hopefully will be here in the next few days and I’ll keep you posted on my findings. Your help is really appreciated.
RPMex What is your email ? I have some stuff you can try.
[email protected]
Have a similar with my ex 100-3 did you get anywhere with yours
Nothing yet, I’m hoping to this week and I’ll be sure to keep you posted. Please do the same with yours
Aye I will do.. What should the pilot pressure be and where’s the best place to test it?
Another thing could you check what colour wires going to the front and back soilinods on top of the pump?
Could be sticking relief or maybe remove some shims to see if it comes down. Was the oil hot when checked? I am not so concerned with that pressure being a little high. Better than being low. I would perform the pilot reduced pressure test next. That is the pressure that goes to your pilot system to move the spools. If that is good check that you have that pressure at the pilot caps. If all that is good then I would suspect an electrical issue. Did you ever get the codes out of that machine either with the Dr Zx or using the blinking light on the controller (look at post #8)?
Morning the oil was pretty cold when I checked it. The machine is inside but the building isn’t heated. Air temp yesterday was around 30 degrees F inside, machine warmed up only about 5 minutes so my guess is the oil was 40 degrees F which is certainly pretty chilly. I haven’t been able to get my DR Zx to work it seems to be having trouble communicating. ToolKing was nice enough to send me the MPDr which I was able to download successfully and I have the interface tool now I’m just waiting for a connection from the interface to my laptop. Amazon says I should have it Monday. Another warm day today so I’ll be working on it some more. I’ll hard wire the codes to see what it says and report my findings later today. Thanks a lot for all the help! I wish I got this support from my local dealer
Hi guys Is there a way of clearing fault costs with out the dr EX.. I did a blink test and got 8 different codes want to clear them and see what comes back
You can't clear codes until you get MPDr. Post the codes.
Well I had codes 5 22 26 27 28 29 and 30 checked again and now I have 4, 5 and 22
When I hard wired my codes it flashes code 22 continuously. The two solenoids on my pump test out fine, and have actually been replaced. The manuals shows to check the Angle sensor next which I have a new one. I took the old one out it was a bit dirty on the shaft. I used the same oring and made sure the mark on the shaft was facing the harness as the manual states and put it back in snug. Now to set the voltage following the manual is a bit vague but if I understand correctly I should do this start engine with sensor not plugged in Disconnect the two pump solenoids and let the engine run 3-4 minutes shut the engine down but leave the key on and plug in Angle sensor back in and test the voltage. I only have a volt meter not the special connection in the manual so do i pin the two outside wires for the voltage test? Once the voltage shows 4.4 tighten the two bolts that hold on the sensor and plug back in the solenoids and should be good to go. Does this sound like the correct procedure. Should the sensor be plugged in when the machine first starts or not till after it runs with the pump solenoids unplugged?
I didn’t have the correct harness either but I made up a harness with a few wee spades (pulled outa a old Toyota load same spades). it’s the voltage in the middle wire you read and you use the earth side for a earth..
I was able to adjust the new angle sensor to 4.4V right on the money and now the movements are so fast my machine wants to stall out.
I would wait until you get MPDr up and running. I'm hedging my bets on wiring issues. 4 – Failure of engine controller 5- Signal from PVC is not transmitted to the engine controller 22- Pump control not normal 26- Disconnected Differential Pressure Sensor or wiring harness 27- Short circuit of pressure sensor or wiring harness 28- Disconnected Pressure Sensor or wiring harness 29- Short circuit of angle sensor or wiring harness
Yep I will wait till Monday and try again with the MPDr and keep you posted. Appreciate your support and advice!!!
4 – Failure of engine controller 5- Signal from PVC is not transmitted to the engine controller 22- Pump control not normal would you say a brain is gone in it?
Got lend of a pvc and plugged it in machine hydraulics went to full load.. it’s flashing up error code 24 now ? Can’t see it in the manual any idea?
It's possible, but I would want to be real sure there isn't a wiring issue first. Lot's of places on those machines where wiring runs around and through sheet metal and sharp edges. Old machines also like to spread terminals inside connectors. Make sure all the connectors pins (male and female) are in good shape and corrosion free. Since it is not in the manual it may be an incorrect PVC for that machine. Was it off another EX100-2?
pvc was of 120-3 machine... changed dp sensor and no change in machine she’s still under load.. would angle sensor cause to much load?
Darreng, this is RPMex's thread. Lets move your questions back to your EX100-3 thread. That is the machine your asking about here, is it not?
Hi mg2361 I received my USB cable for the interface tool and went down today and it still would not communicate with my machine. Kinda feel dumb but I didn't realize I had to download a driver for the USB cord, I believe I've accomplished that but while I was trouble shouting and after the new angle sensor was put in it now has these symptoms. When the new angle sensor is in and set to 4.4V I turn the engine on and the first thing i notice is the engine seems to be under a little load also hydraulics are so fast they stall out the engine, or if I close the bucket and hold it the engine immediately stalls. After a few of these movements the angle sensor kicks down to around 1V and now the hydraulics become very slow. However if I multifunction the speed seems to come back towards normal. I can still idle up fine and there does not appear to be any load on the engine now. Could it be that the new angle sensor is faulty or what would cause it to lose voltage like this? I can unplug the 2 solenoids and the angle sensor goes back to 4.4V with no adjustment needed. I'm still manually getting code 22. Hopefully tomorrow I can get my MPDr to communicate. Appreciate all your help and insight I find it very useful!
Did you set up your COM port in MPDr? If you didn't that would be the most likely reason you are not communicating. If not I'll walk you through it.
If you could walk me through that would be wonderful
Give me a little time and I'll PM you.
Certainly no rush I appreciate your time more than I can say!
I found this wire in the harness with the pump solenoids and angle sensor it looks like it runs to the n sensor. It’s not braided copper like the rest. What kind of wire could this be, maybe this is my problem?
Hi RPMex, Could I ask how is your machine now? What are the symptoms of your machine? Does it work slowly or overload it?
Hi Lachau thank you so much for reaching out!!! Currently the machine is overloaded. If I move any hydraulic function to fast or to max the machine will stall. I have an MPDr and below are my readings delivery pressure 4.0-4.3 pump solenoids dn Ap 23.9 Apr 4.6 DP - 2.6 MPa when checking the voltage on the solenoids I get these readings Solenoid #1 with key on engine off Power (YB) - 24.70 Ground (RBL) - 24.42 Engine running at idle Power 28.41 Ground 13.44 Solenoid #2 with key on engine off Power (YB) - 24.45 Ground (Y) - 24.53 Engine running at idle Power 28.49 Ground 28.49 I have checked the harness from the solenoids to the PVC and PVC to ground and they have continuity. I replaced the angle sensor and it is currently set to 4.4V. I notice that if I move the hydraulics and multifunction for a bit the voltage on the angle sensor kicks down to 1.1V and the machine becomes very slow. If I preform the angle sensor adjustment it automatically goes back to 4.4V without needing to be adjusted and the machine goes back to stalling.
I suggest you to re-check the harness of wires. In addition to the continuity test, you need to check if there is a short circuit. At the same time you need to check the connectors for loose, good electrical contact or not? How much is the voltage of the high pressure sensor on the pump? Does voltage change follow load pressure? regarding to A-sensor, you take it out from main pump==> turn on key==> turn A-sensor by hand==> measure voltage to check whether voltage change follow rotation of A-sensor or not?
Thank you Lachau I will check these tomorrow and report my findings!
Hi Lachau, Today I took the angle sensor off and tested it per your instructions and the voltage does move as you move the shaft so I put it back on and adjusted it to 4.45V I checked the voltage to the Pressure Sensor it is 5V with key on and when you turn the engine on the output is around 1V touching no controls and when I move the controls the voltage goes up as it starts to stall it spikes up close to 5V I checked all my harness and looked everything over I can't visually see any breaks in the wires. Unfortunately I'm not certain how to test for a short circuit for the ground wires on the high pressure solenoids. I should be able to get some info on this and get back to you tomorrow.
As I know that you have MPDr. or Dr.EX already. You can check many items with Dr.EX. Please confirm the values of each component.
I will check these and get back to you shortly. See below the diagnostic results show PVC does just mean that’s what the MPDr is looking at or is that what’s at fault?
It means the "Pump control system" is currently faulty. Fault code No.22 is usually sensor or wiring problems, but sometimes it's caused by mechanical components !!! As I wrote here. Hitachi ex100-3 Hitachi ex100-3
Copy that I will be checking the sheets you sent over and should have some info for you later today. Thank you so much for the help!!!
Hi Lachau I was able to get some readings today and they are posted in the two attached pictures. I wasn't able to do any multi-functions as the machines hydraulic oil started over heating before I could get the readings. It was up to 78C Some of these look good some do not. The Pump Delivery Pressure and Pump Flow rate seem very high as well as most of the Differential Pressure readings. Any function held over relief the pressures spike and machine stalls. A few things I noticed while running the machine other than the hydraulics getting hot was that the arm roll out was extremely fast and the few short times I had the auto idle on the arm roll in function would not trigger the machine to idle up like all the rest. I will check the combo function readings tomorrow but I wanted to report what I found and am interested in your thoughts, thank you very much for taking the time to look at these and help your information is extremely informal and I really appreciate it!!!
According to your information, I think that: a)- The Differential Pressure sensor (DP-sensor) b)- The engine speed sensor are faulty. c)- Main pump of machine can not reduce to minimum displacement in the neutral position!! So I suggest some actions: Check the No. 1 PUMP displacement solenoid valve .... also check the mechanical parts of the main pump regulator (servo piston) for stuck. Regarding to the DP sensor, you can make adjustments and at the same time you should carefully check the wiring, connectors. Engine speed sensor, you must carefully check the installation, wiring and connectors.
According to your information, I think that: a)- The Differential Pressure sensor (DP-sensor) is fault. b)- The engine speed sensor is fault. c)- Main pump of machine can not reduce to minimum displacement in the neutral position!! So I suggest some actions: Check the No. 1 PUMP displacement solenoid valve....also check the mechanical parts of the main pump regulator (servo piston) for stuck. Regarding to the DP sensor, you can make adjustments and at the same time you should carefully check the wiring, connectors. Engine speed sensor, you must carefully check the installation, wiring and connectors.
Hope to be helpful. Don't need to remove main pump.
Great info!!! I will check these today and report my findings. Thank you so much!!!
From your pictures Solenoid 1 is closest to the entry door and solenoid 2 is closest to the engine. Can you confirm as my manual shows the opposite and the wiring diagram seems too as well. It’s an EX 100-2 s/n 12L-30145 my manual doesn’t break down the pump at all. These are really great photos I really like the one showing the servo!! Great stuff thank you very much!!!
It's sure. Solenoid 1 (ON==>reducing flow, wires color are YB & RL) is closest to the entry door and solenoid 2 (ON==>increasing flow, wires color are YB & Y) is closest to the engine.
I swapped the solenoid wires over so they are correct and now the MPDr is giving code 22 along with code 29 and 30 for the angle sensor. I checked the harness and am getting 5V and ground is grounded with key on. The sensor was reading an output of 4.4V. I took it back off and when I move the shaft with the key on the voltage goes up and down however it does seem a little sporadic. I put the sensor back in and reset to 4.4V but am still getting the code. Could this sensor be faulty? I checked the voltage to the dP sensor it is 4.5V with key on and 4.73V with machine running. I also have to apologize the numbers I put down for engine rpm difference was only the engine rpms.
I'm back with hopefully some good news. I've been delayed because I had to take the starter off and have it rebuilt after giving me fits and not starting. While it was out I replaced all the old sensor connectors on and for the pump. I also replaced the angle sensor with a new one from Hitachi and thankfully now I have no codes. However I do have slow hydraulics especially with the boom up function and walking the machine Lachau would you mind looking at these numbers again now that I have cleared up the codes. Could it be something in the actual hydraulic system itself? The pump delivery pressure and flow rates seem low.
I suggest you look at Angle sensor bolt. It has a Elliptical hole allows you to adjust the position of the sensor, then try to adjust it.
Will do what should I adjust too?
I adjusted it per this method
Interesting, in our Deere manual they have us restart the machine after the DVOM is connected to the harness (step 9). Then wait 3-4 minutes until the voltage stops rising, then make the adjustment while it is still running.
I am afraid your engine has degraded after a period of use!!
That doesn’t sound good. What would be the solution to something like this?
When I rotated the angle sensor it did make the machine a bit fast(still not near as fast as it should be) but it didn’t stall out. Although very slow it does seem there is some load on the engine. I noticed when multifunctioning it seemed to come out of it and want to act normal. I adjusted the angle sensor back to 4.4 and I’m back to code 22 abnormal pump control Is there a way to fix a degraded engine? Or check it?
It's been a bit but I wanted to conclude the prognosis of this machine. I ended up hauling it into the dealer hoping they would have better news but unfortunately they did not. They started by going over all the electrical which I had already done thanks to help on HEF. They told me the electrical checked out fine, there were no codes, and they replaced the DP Sensor and a pressure sensor which made no change. They then dug into the hydraulic control valve and unassembled and re assembled looking for contaminations, and nothing was found. Once reassembled and tested they felt it was a bit faster so I was called to come try it out. It was a bit faster but still nothing like it was. Tracking in turtle is pretty much no existent and the boom up is still slow especially when extended out all the way. When multifunctioning it still seems to come out of it and the movements get faster. The machine also tracks better once the hydraulic fluids warm up. I was told that was about all they could do for the machine as many of the valves and spools are not available new anymore and finding some used in good shape would be next to impossible. Not to mention they were not sure that would even fix the problem because they were not certain what was wrong. They told me my money now would be better spent on a new machine. It is 25 years old so they are probably correct on an upgrade but I'm still bummed to think now this machine is basically useless because it is tight and clean and engine runs great. I want to give a special thanks to @mg2361 and @LACHAU . Your willingness to take the time to help was huge in so many ways. I learned a ton about this machine and I really enjoy reading down through all the different posts on this site. The knowledge and experience on this forum is awesome and a great tool for anybody wiling and able to tackle their own maintenance work! For now I'm going to look for another digger and keep this one as a shop machine. Below is the dealer write up incase anyone is interested in reading, or has any more insight on what could be wrong. Thanks again! Dealer write up: "Tried to bring machine in the shop but the tracks would not move the machine well. you could not turn the machine and even tracking straight it would hardly go over a bump. Tried to pick the machine up with the boom but it would not do it. The dig functions did cycle much better than the tracks. Connected to machine with MPDr, and made sure the dig mode was in general purpose and the travel switch was changing input to the PVC. The pump angle was around 4 degrees at an idle with no functions activated. When I combined arm, boom, and bucket functions together you could see the angle increase to 23 degrees. Verified that the angle sensor was installed correctly and that the spring clip was still in place and they were. The differential pressure would drop when you activated a function but the dig functions would make it drop more dramatically. Verified that the DP sensor had around .4 volts at the signal wire with key one engine off. Delivery pressure would never reach relief specifications when you held a function over relief. Adjusted the system and surge reliefs up to see if they had any effect but they did not. Inspected seals on system relief but they were intact. Monitored the pump solenoid signals and when you activated a dig function they would increase the pump angle like they should and decrease it when you let off the function. Swapped the solenoids to verify that the results were the same and they were. Unplugged both solenoids and made sure that the pump would increase its angle at a slow rate. When you activated the tracks the PVS would not try to increase the angle. It stayed at 4 degrees. Disconnected the DP sensor to see if the pump would go to max angle and it did. Tried traveling and the machine would move but almost stalled the engine while doing so. Reconnected the DP sensor and unplugged the pump solenoids. While monitoring the pump angle, I waited until it got to about 10 degrees and activated travel. I was able to get the machine in the shop before the angle became to large and pulled the engine down too much. Reconnected the solenoids. Capped off the two top travel work ports at the main control valve to see if the tracks would then be able to achieve system pressure. They still would not. Monitored engine RPMs to make sure speed sensing was not effecting the pump and it seemed to be accurate. Activated the tracks when the machine was in auto idle state to see if the pilot sensor was working and the engine returned to high idle. Checked pilot pressure at the top of the propel valve spool pilot caps and had 700 psi with travel activated. Swapped one of the propel spool's pilot lines with the swing function to see if the machine would travel with the swing function activated and it would not. Capped off the proportional solenoid line going to the travel functions compensator to see if I got different results and I did not. Checked the constant reduced pilot pressure and it was 485 psi, a little low but not enough to stop the machine from traveling, especially with the solenoid pressure removed from the equation. It seemed as though load sense pressure was either not being generated or leaking off somewhere for the propel functions. Removed the travel shuttle valve and examined it. Disassembled the valve and blew it out. Reinstalled the shuttle and found that the results were the same. Swapped travel shuttle with the swing shuttle and the results were the same. Tried swapping the swing and the travel shuttles with the bucket shuttle one at a time. Still had the same results. Removed the number 7 shuttle and disassembled it. Blew it out and examined it. Reinstalled the shuttle and I could now achieve system pressure with the bucket function. The machine could also lift itself off the ground. Travel was still too weak to turn one track on its own. Removed the left main valve pilot cap and removed both travel spools. Could not see anything that stood out about them. Cleaned them off and made sure that they moved easily in their bores. Removed the travel compensator valves. Examined them and cleaned them up Made sure that they moved easily in their bores as well. Reinstalled all removed parts and tried the travel function again. With the top propel work ports capped off the delivery pressure would now increase to 32Mpa (system relief pressure). Reconnected the lines and founds that the tracks could turn the machine. Pump angle was also now increasing above 4 degrees with propel activated and the differential pressure was more dramatic in its drop. Readjusted the pump angle sensor slightly to increase pump displacement. Brought the machine outside and I was able to track slowly around the yard. The machine could not counter-rotate but would turn. Called customer to come try."