Trying to get the cap off to install seals in my Lull hoist cylinder piston. It seems frozen / rusted. I had a adjustable pin spanner wrench and I did the oppostie side and it came off easy. It now started to deform one hole as the pins are not really big enough and it slipped. I don't want to totally mess it up. This side seems like it will not come out as easy. Heat it, weld something to the cap and tap off? If weld to the cap any suggestion as to how to construct it or were to weld it to the face, I guess as far towards the outside as possible for leverage? What should I use to protect / shield the rod when welding? I tried heating it somewhat and I had sprayed P B Blaster on it for a week. Really didn't want to remove the piston from the machine if possible. Any tips appreciated. Only 5 more hoist pistons to go :Banghead:Banghead Can I get different size pins for the wrench pictured below? I think it is a OTC tool but not sure. wrench [img=http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6048/pinspannerwrench.th.jpg] [img=http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9639/hoistcylindercap.th.jpg] [img=http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/108/hoistcylindercapendhole.th.jpg] [img=http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6949/hoistcylindercapsidevei.th.jpg]
I heat cylinders for gland removal only as a last resort. Heating (expansion) and the subsequent cooling (retracting) can possibly distort the steel from it's original shape. You have an aluminum gland in a steel cylinder, dissimilar metals, it's not uncommon for the two to get stuck. Here's what you do, I've done it on so many cylinders and it does the trick. Ballpeen hammer. Get right at the end of the cylinder where it meets the flange of the gland. Start peening the steel of the cylinder. With each peen stroke, move the next peen straight back down the cylinder. Index each stroke close to the last peen you made. When you've moved about the distance the threads/seals are in the cylinder, that would be just where you meet the cylinder retract fitting welded on the cylinder, index your peen strokes over to a new line to peen. Continue peen strokes up to gland. Index to new line, back down cylinder, etc, etc. Go all the way around the cylinder for best results. What's happening by peening the steel is it slightly cold expands the steel to make the inside diameter just a fraction larger, thereby giving clearance needed to release threads on the gland. She'll screw right out. You can start off with widly spaced peen blows and try it. If it won't turn, peen again with closer spacing. I've had to peen cylinders practically covering all the steel of the cylinder end, but eventually, they turn loose. :cool2
Is that the cylinder your having a problem of creeping down? If so, send a pic of the holding valves.
what ATCOEQUIP said Ive also seen guys at our shop first set the gland wrench ...then as a guy is prying on it ..the other use's a air hammer on the "nut" or the gland wrench...just a flat head tip ..no chisel's or anything fancy ..grind it flat if you have to .. your not trying to push it with the hammer just vibrate the crap out of it ... the other ive helped with is a pipe wrench on a steel nut and a air hammer ...again two guy's ... and it was a small nut ..2 1/2 inch not much bigger
I posted another thread with the holding valves. Thanks for all you help all the time. :notworthy:notworthy The end gland on the hoist piston is steel also not aluminum still peen it:bash? I guess good taps but don't mall it :beatsme decent size ball peen.
Oh yeah, it will work. It has for me sooooo many times.
Hoist piston end cap removal : Peen on the red dots... or something similar... all around the cyclinder, ATCOEQUIP? Man, that was hard to do... don't know how to work that program... Paint... LOL OCR...
I am going to print the picture, cut out the cylinder, glue the picture to the cylinder, then hammer the dotted lines. Thanks guys I'll let you know soon as I am done depending on weather.:drinkup:drinkup
OCR, that is some cool artwork! :notworthy That's pretty much the idea. Like I said, I only heat as a last option. I don't like to do that to the steel, and it turns the o-rings/seals inside into a gummy mess. The steel of the cylinder is fairly thin out on the end and is very malleable. Peening with the flat head of the hammer expands the steel giving the clearance need to release gland threads. Start with widly spaced lines as you've drawn. If it doesn't release, repeat process with closer spaced lines. Like I said, I've had to peen the entire end before on really stuck glands, but I usually win.
Hey speedpup, did you ever get that cylinder apart? I took a similar cylinder apart on a Gradall 534D that was stuck using this trusty method. After a few minutes with the hammer, the gland came out with a pair of Channel Lock pliers. Let us know if it worked for you.
Trying to get to it today and if it pops I'll be sure to yell about it here!
Victory in 7 minutes! Well it was like taking candy from a baby after trying with a 8' cheater pipe :Banghead:Banghead last time. Tapped :bash it for about 7 minutes put 3/4 drive ratchet with a small 2' pipe and it was really no effort to remove. Felt like a greased pig. Thanks all for the tips especially seeing there are 4 more hoist cylinders to remove :notworthy It was a real help and a money saver not to mention me trying to heat it with a torch. I stated that last week then said to myself I'll ask on the forum so I really only got it hot enough to turn the paint black. Guess it won't hurt to put some Never sieze on it upon reassembly or would that find it's way into the hydraulics by being washed with hydraulic fluid when operating it? If so what else could I put on it? It lasted me since 1986 so I doubt I will be seeing in there again I'll be ointlaugh I hope not downstairs:falldownlaugh. Thanks all for the time and money saver it was real gratificatiion to spin that puppy off!:drinkup:drinkup
I dunno ..about the never seize....try pasting a bit on some old o-rings to see if they swell ,crack or turn to powder:beatsme....
Ah, success, how sweet it is! That simple method has worked everytime I've tried it, glad you got it out. Now you can see why it was stuck. Some cylinder glands use an o-ring at flange to seal end of cylinder barrel. That one doesn't. Over time, moisture gets in there and causes threads to sieze. As far as lubricating threads, I always clean everything then apply the same grease I use to lube seals and put some on the threads. I use Loctite ViperLube, but if you don't have a local supplier for it, I've also used Lubriplate 105 motor assembly grease. It comes in a sqeeze tube and you can get it at any auto parts store. :cool2
It was better than winning Lotto. Well anything under a million anyway I'll check into the Loctite stuff and paint it up good soon. Trying to seal up my machines then clean and paint. Last paint job was about 92 on them all. Looking at the picture now I can see the deeper you go in the less corrosion their is but I guess that's common sense. Thanks john
Well, what happened to all my fancy art work?... LOL. I tried this reply with OpenOffice.org Writer... it's got a spell checker...:cool2 I don't know if these programs will work all the time, for everything, though. OCR...
Art work? I guess you could say my paint got hammered! I did glue on your lines! My employee said "Man this is much better than the last time we tried with all the screaming!"
OK, that's funny as heck! :lmao:roll
Sorry Speedpup, I didn't mean to mess up a good cussfest! :drinkup
ATCOEQUIP, I forgot to ask this question... so while we're still here... In post #9 of this thread you state: You use the flat head, not the round (peen) head?? I would suppose the round head makes to big of a dimple?? OCR...
You got it! I said to use a ball peen hammer because it's a mechanic thing. If a mechanic see's someone working on machine parts and components using a "claw hammer", our eye's pop out like a stomped on bullfrog! We feel that claw hammers are for drivin' nails, not beatin' on cylinders. Also, I don't use a "dead blow" hammer for this procedure, just a plain ole' ball peen, because I want the hammer to bounce. It allows you to develope a repetative hammer motion with the least amount of arm muscle. Just kinda use the wrist to let the hammer hit the cylinder, then bounce up, and the wrist/arm to do it again. Much less fatigue than with a dead blow hammer.
Read you loud and clear, ATCOEQUIP. Just like a hammer to an anvil... OCR...
Lucky it worked because I went out and bought a new ballpeen hammer I had a big one and a little one but I need one that was just right? Sound like a familar story? I really did buy a new one and it was just right not to heavy to mall and not to light to be a woodpecker. Otherwise I would be using my brick hammer or lump hammer but then it would not have looked like mechanical work would it? Tools never go to waste even if you never use them you know you are prepared, or at least think you are which is comforting even if not reality. Now on to the other 4 hoist pistons and how many others on the Lull? I don't even want to count them.:Banghead Will be nice to have dry clean machines again. Hell I even bought a ton of seals for it all. Parts guy must be saying man this guy is having no luck! After mastering this I think I will try forging a sword like I saw on TV recently!
No... it would have looked like a stomped on bullfrog, by anyone who saw you, that is... :lmao OCR...
For sure, that is how to do it. I posted that I was having trouble with the same cap removal. Alrman posted a link to this thread. I had just gotten my hot wrench re filled and planned to use it. I read this thread and tried it. About 25 hammer peens and a 2 foot cheater on the spanner and it turned. Took less than 5 minutes. Damm, Tennesseans are smart! At least some of them are. I have no idea how much time and trouble I was saved. Thanks!!!!!
Oh heck no, don't include me in that crowd. Good to hear it helped Nitelite. :drinkup
I'm sold on Noalox It is a grease with additives including zinc. It is designed for aluminum threaded conduit joints, has been commonly used on aluminum wiring connections. It is available at Home Depot in electrical department, or wholesalers. I use it everywhere. Battery terminals especially. Batteries last forever with it on the terminals. Assemble your cylinder, just start the thread, put a small amount on the thread, (half teaspoon) and assemble.
Yair . . . Well there you go then, I have always used the ball face of the hammer but, as I mentioned up thread, many times lightly, it bruises the paint off pretty good but barely leaves any dimples. I had always imagined the stretching action to be a milder version of the blunt cold chisel blows on the flats of a large recalcitrant nut. Cheers.
It worked. Another gland nut saved from savagery. Thank you so very much.
Oh, I get it! A comedian. Yuk Yuk Yuk. You are amusing.
@willie59 and really anyone that has tried to take a hydraulic cylinder apart to repack it. So I bought a very used 1986 case 480E constriction king loader backhoe. it ran ok, etc, but over heated very quickly once I started to use it....new radiator and hoses, water pump..... it does not over heat now. Long story short I am slowly fixing it up. I really have no business or need for a backhoe, let alone one that needs so much work, but it was my retirement present to me and I do like to fix things... have used it a few times so I am getting better on it, but not really up to rookie standards yet. SOO.... it needs hoses, cylinders repacked, seat work, (that is to say a seat, a seat spring D84284 anybody know any specs on that spring case wants 80 bucks plus shipping.) electrical work, etc etc... I am getting there. I have repacked three of the cylinders so far. The bucket cylinder was leaking just sitting there, about a drip every 30 seconds... had a bucket under it for a while.... Well it does not leak anymore! That was my first cylinder I did. Completed the righthand out rigger cylinder Tuesday. It was harder than the bucket cylinder but not as hard as the left hand out rigger cylinder that I did today. And it is because of this experience that I write this today. So started this job yesterday. First thing I did was snap the small 1/4" pin of the pita OTC 1266 glad nut that I spent big bucks on so I would not have an issue... it sorta worked on the other two cylinders but not on this last one.... So I went and borrowed a big pipe wrench. But before starting I was reading here about 'peening the cylinder". Never heard of this but it sounded like a great idea, and it was! I still needed the pipe wrench and a 7' 'breaker bar" but got the gland nut came off just fine. Thanks willie59!!!! So here is the rest of the story: SO got the gland nut off and the piston and rod out of the cylinder. Piston nut was a couple hundred thousand foot pounds of torque and loc tight ( I am not sure exactly but damn it was a lot of work to crack that one). So piston came off but could not slip the gland nut off the rod. Other side was same way but I was able to tap it off with a wood block and a hammer... This left side was not so willing to be removed! So I put it all back in the cylinder, tightened up everything and used the machines hydraulics to push the rod through the gland nut to as close to the end of the rod as possible. Took it all out again was about 4 inches or so that I had to use the wood block and hammer to get gland off the rod. Replaced all the seals and then put the gland nut on and had to tap (beat) it back on... use the bolt to pull it on and then to pull the piston on... back in the machine etc..... I was whooped.... but its done and no leaks... Swing cylinders are next.... not looking forward to those... So another issue I am going to have to tackle or just live with it is the pins that attach the swing cylinders to the swing tower. They are not the right ones and way undersized... (threaded rod with nuts welded on) not sure if the right sized 1.5" ones will even be big enough... No bushings in the swing tower holes where the pins are, what can be done to tighten this up? Thx for reading and for any suggestions on the seat spring and the swing tower issue. Schaeff58
I believe Scrub Puller is the real person Crocodile Dundee was modeled after. "that's not a knife. .....Now this is a knife." I got no respect for specialists. People able to do the job, run the tractor & fix the tractor I respect! Scrub Puller seems to have dropped out, I hope he lost interest in us. He is a good guy & a wealth of information.
One of the Australian members here looked him up not long ago.