Here are a few pictures of some bars ive made out of 1045 crome shaft with 1/2" threaded tool ports.
Jobs with drill drive bar Holes were worn about 3/8" off to one side
Good work man, well done.
Drill drive The frame on this 6 wasnt bushed from the factory. I didnt pull the pan or converter the hardbar was bushed but the frame wasnt. I bored oversized and installed hardbar bushings in the frame. This was a few years ago and it has held up great
Steve,I like that set up with the universal joint boring bar. If you have to do those centre pivots you might as well make it easier. I did a couple of those on a D6,both in the same week.What was interesting was one was an LGP version and the other standard. One had a metric sized pin and the other imperial I remember doing one on a 9L years ago out in the open at sand mine.The track frames were off and the tractor was sitting on 4 stands. Well it was raining heavily and while I was doing the job I could see the stands slowly sinking into the wet sand. I was glad to finish and get out of there
Thanks
Ray i love that small bar ive used it quite a few times. Some old case backhoes had swing towers that wernt bushed. I get a hardend ground bushing for the newer case and just oversize. Ray i worked for a guy for about 2 years named Ian Mundell here in the states he coowned ameraus tractor with the coal miner i worked for. They split ways and he is now back in qweensland selling some parts his web is ironfarmer.
Steve , i havent been around boring in person and i was wondering - are you hand feeding the cutter on this type of cutting? Tis type of work has always been interesting but i never had the opportunity to watch any , by the way your work looks great.
Steve, First I like to say "nice work". Your set up reminds me of a old Kwik Wayengine line boring bar that have it is old nough that it cuts by a hand crank---come to think of it I'm old enough to own it lol.
On the d6 i used a 1/2 makita drill and hand feed. I didnt have weld in the bore it was a smooth cut. On the case part the bores i welded the holes so i knew there were going to be some interupted cutting so i used a 3/4 gearhead drill with quick homade carriage.
Thanks what did quickway use as far as setting the cutting tool
How about a mag base drill to drive it.You can get them 4 speed a well as a variable speed motor and use the handles to feed it ?
Steve I'm a techno dummy an couldn't post pictures if my life depended on it. But to answer you question it uses a micometered adjustable bit holder would be how I describe it. You might like looking @ the instructing manual http://www.fordfarm.net/Kwik-Way-manual.pdf ----I doublt those prices are still good lol.
Ray i used a fixed speed mag drill on a longstick 322 and it worked good. What ive been looking at building is a pass through design like yours but instead of hyd using a css unitec tube rolling motor its like Tom V's york motor it has a four speed gearbox. Then i like your hoffman feed design. I Think the rpm is 60/90/140/200 I think that would do a good job for what i am doing. Imput welcome Steve
Thanks 250c i will check it out.
Those RPM's would work ok.The Hofmann feed units are expensive but a good unit. I'm not sure what else is available.
Question for Steve Loving??? I have one of those old Case swing tower back hoes that needs bushing (530CK w/#32 hoe) and I saw your reference to using a later bushing(s)....would take two at the lower pivot. Can you tell me what the Case part numbers are for the bushings I need. Thanks
old Magnet i havent done a 530 but my case dealer here keeps his bushings on the shelf where you can look and measure. I have to go pay for some parts in just a few days and ill see what i can come up with. If the tower hasnt got bushings it would be nice to have a length for the bushings top and bottom. Ill be glad to help thier bushings are about 1/4 wall would that be enough to clean the hole up Steve
530 swing tower Old Magnet D21927 BUSHING is what the upper bushing part # for 32 hoe is. You might already know go to mycasece and hit parts then launch parts catalog and type in model it has the 530 nd your hoe. Hope it helped
Steve, good job on the Cat equilizer pivot. Nice boring bars also.
Thank's Tom it looks like you had a busy afternoon working on a jd hoe to darn hot . I ran the overhead on a cummins and half the engine in the cab half out. I cant get in there like i used too.
Hi Steve, Thanks for the response. Those upper bushings are 1-1/4 in. wide. The lower bosses are 1-1/8 in thick so I'd be looking for the 1-1/8 in width, same 2 in. I.D. If I have to go special sizes I was considering going to flanged drill bushings. Also the meat is a little thin in this area so was considering some weld build up to offset the bushing hole loss. Also made my own boring bar from nitride coated shaft, 1-1/2 in dia. with broached holes for 1/2 in. tool bits. Drive will be my Milwaukee mag base drill through a couple of Sunnen 5/8 in. threaded universal joints. Pretty amazing what you guys tackle for line boring.
530 Old Magnet online look at ball bushing warehouse ive used them and i think Tom V has mentioned them also they have bushings listed by size. The hardend ground bushings are hard to machine but grind easy. Do you have enough meat to install the top bushing in the bottom after taking 1/8 off the length. You better double check me but the part number i posted was the case upper bushing. It didnt show the bottom having a bushing am i right on that?
Yes, I have been to that site and checked bushings. Correct, the lower swing tower fork, so to speak, is not normally bushed, just the upper pivot has bushing. It's the lower end that I need to either build up and bore back to size or bush. This bottom pivot is a ball bushing affair but if the pivot bolt was not kept tight it wallows out the holes. Didn't help that this bolt had a shoulder that prevented adequate tightening unless ya got creative with shims. Have you installed flanged bushings in this type application.....maybe it's overkill but I'm concerned that tightening of the pivot bolt would apply side pressure to bushings.
I take it that the swing tower is cast iron? If so be wary about welding it as it will go glass hard nd you won't machine it
Old Magnet can you post some pictures of it.
Good point, thanks. Pretty sure it is cast steel but will do the spark test to be sure. They do get welded on when replacing worn out boom shafts and bushings with the external welded boss and bushing kits.
Yes, I can do that, will try and get some today.
Ok, here's some pictures.... The original pivot bolt was not long enough and caused the ridge. The new pivot bolt is actually from a #33 hoe. Fits fine. The delema is if I straight bush the tightening forces of the pivot bolt are applied to the bushing so I'm thinking flanged bushing such as a slip fit liner drill bushing or.......what's your take? Thanks
I reckon a straight bushing would be ok. A Cat bearing with the right ID should work ok. You have enough meat there to bore it
Old magnet i wouldnt weld on that. From what i am seeing the threaded pin is just for keeping the pin from turning in the unbushed casting. Like ray said i would bore and bush the bottom. I dont think the tightening would hurt anything. Is the top pin the same diameter as the bottom if it is you could use top bushings in the bottom.
OK, Thanks guys.....will proceed with a straight bore. Yes, the upper bushings are same I.D. with 1/4 in. wall, just wider at 1-1/4 in. vs the 1-1/8 in. thickness I have to work with on the bottom. When it's all assembled the space above and below the ball bushing is taken up by the ball bushing receiver, its seat and hardened spacer so that the hole thing is rigid when tightened and rotation is handled by the bushing. All seems good in theory but very difficult to keep tight with not much head on the pivot bolt due to the swing tower cylinder rods running very close. I'm still trying to figure out a better way to anchor it.
Would there ever be a chance that the pin could rotate? If that is a problem I would drill and tap a hole in the bottom and install a 1/4" thick plate or whatever against the flat on the pin.
Yes, that's one of the options being considered.....or just welding a couple of key stock tabs up against the flats. The tower is cast steel so it would accept the welds. Or a tab welded to the pin flat and bolted to the tower similar to what you describe. No, I don't see any need for the pivot bolt to rotate, in fact it's better if it doesn't. Thanks for the suggestion.
How about the pins with a flange like cat uses that takes a 1/2 13 bolt to lock the pin. what is the total length from outside to outside of the bottom ears
Not quite sure what you mean by bottom ears.....If you mean from flat to flat on the bottom flange it's just a hair over two inches. The O.D. round diameter is about 2-1/2 in. I am thinking of making a 1/4 in. plate flange that the I.D. would fit over the 2-1/2 in. diameter and neck down (sort of banjo shape) with a single anchor bolt. I'd weld this (one side) to the pin. I've seen this type used on Cat and other machines....maybe that's what your referring to???
If the pin didn't rotate before it won't do it just because its in bearings. And if it did,as the bearings are hardened it won't matter. They will get some grease from the centre bearing. Its a similar thing to what we do with almost all our mining buckets here.We put flanged bearings in the bucket,flanged bearings in the arm.A cap over the end of the bucket bores with a O ring to seal it up. The pin has no tail or lock and its free to turn in the arm or the bucket. No more face wear and everything lasts 4 times as long.
I don't think that is quite how it was designed to work....the pin bolt when tightened clamps the whole thing together so that the rotation and wear is on the outside of the ball bushing and within its race. If the pin floats then wear will be between the pin and the I.D. of the ball bushing.....granted movement and rotation that wiped out the bores in the first place would not be an issue with the bushings but I don't think this pin is designed as a wear surface. Would it be clearer if I add some pictures of the bearing receiver that attaches the tower to the tractor mount?
Old Magnet if i am understanding this your saying the ball bushing inside the swingtower is shimed top or top and bottom with hardend washers. Tightly pinched by the threaded pin you lock up the pin and the ball leaving the race to turn free. I dont think it would hurt to pinch with hardend bushings in there as long as there flush top and bottom with the casting. Ray are you reffering to the oring to the od of the flanges which are radiused i have seen buckets like that and its a good set up also and that would work.
Getting closer....The ball bushing, inside that split race which in turn is pressed and held with a retaining ring in the receiver which is welded (not yet) in the hoe tractor mount. The ball bushing seats on a flange/ridge at the bottom of the receiver and a hardened spacer/shim at the top. When all is in place the nut is tightened and the assembly is now rigid with rotation motion transferred to the O.D. of the ball bushing (now fixed) and it's race. The pin bolt just functions to hold things in alignment and hold the assembly in compression.....hell of a thing to explain LOL As far as the clamping force to the bushings they would just become an extension of the clamped assembly but now totally relying on the press fit of the bushings unless a flange/washer arrangement is used to control vertical position. These would have to have an OD that reached beyond the bushing OD to duplicate the original design. I guess it's up to me to decide if the press fit friction is adequate or to come up with flange arrangement that clamps beyond the bushing diameter. This can work well by combining a flange/anchor bolt for the bottom and I can come up with a large washer affair for the top. Also makes it possible to hold the pin bolt while tightening....something that was near impossible to do originally. Appreciate your interest and input from both you and RayF.
I tend to think that if the bearings have a decent crush on them like 50 or 6 thou they will handle the pin being tightened on them. If you are a bit nervous about it the way to be sure is machine up some top hat bushes.Just rebate the bore a bit so they sit flush.I've done a lot of them. Machine them out of 4140, oversize. Bring them to a red heat and quench them in oil and final machine them with a ceramic tip. I have a number of machine with them and they are going 7 to 8000 hours no worries. Steve,an O ring around the outside is good. We also cut a groove in the end cap to take an O ring. It bolts up against the end of the bore and acts as a seal to retain the grease. I might have a pic somewhere.
Here you go. These are Hitachi EX3600 bucket caps.
Ray, These caps look like they are made from scratch. Is this a totally different design than from the factory or are you duplicating the factory caps and just adding an o-ring groove?
Tom,the Hitachi factory design is nothing more than very basic pin with a locking tail and no bearing in the bucket and no cap. No protection for the faces and the bucket bores wear rapidly in a mining enviroment. Myself and a workshop manager made up this floating pin system for his fleet or PC650 and 1000 Komatsu diggers 22 years ago.We went from boring a bucket a week to one every 3 month's. The effect was so dramatic that I would say almost every mining bucket made in Western Australia uses a similar set up. I can't claim all that much credit though as we used the Liebherr system as a model. So these days I machine up the bosses and the caps for my line boring clients when they manufacter a new bucket. After its made I go in and line bore it.
Sweet! Thanks for the explanation. Looks like bar stock, you must have a nice big saw too.
I have a decent saw but we get them profiled out of plate
Fooled me . I saw the caps in the background with a bit of rust on the O.D. like correctly sized stock with a light finish cut.
The "Nervous" solution sounds good to me. Top hat bushings = flanged bushings that I was referring to previously. Really just providing a liner to replace missing bore material, not the usual wear bushings. Thanks again.
Old Magnet keep us posted do you have a supplier for the flanged bushings or are you going to make them.
Ray that new mill will be nice working on those
No, I'm not equipped to produce the bushings described......still digesting the info. Closest I got at one time was looking into flanged drill bushings but they would be a special order item. Do I detect a proposal in there??? Thanks
Im going to see whats out there in flanged bushings this weekend on the internet.
Mate,cmon over this morning and I'll spin a couple up for you
I'd love to but the freight bill on 270 lbs would be a bit much. LOL Interesting that not long ago I was working with a fellow with a lame D6 out of Perth. Apparently a gold mining (small) operation. Nice fellow, was happy to get his tractor going again. Regards
Aaaarrgh!!!! That's 230 lbs, not 270.....I'm fat enough already.
old Magnet here is an interesting bushing mgf. www.acmeindustrial.com they have got a lot of bushings. Also look at H.E.F usa on the menu on the left look at pel high load bushings Steve
OK, I'll check it out.....thanks again.