Not too many sources for AC undercarriage anymore, and I wouldn't want to put much $$$ into this old girl even if there were, so I decided to make some sprocket liners out of pipe. I know it's soft metal and won't last as long as a new sprocket or rim, but I don't put a lot of hours on this machine so they'll be ok for me (I hope). The previous owner had put new chains on, but not replaced the sprockets and they were running out of "time" and really tearing the bushings up. HOpefully this will solve it.:drinkup
That's pretty cool Dave. What model Fat Allis do you have? You may have said before, just can't remember. Edit: LoL, I see it in the title now...HD-9. Cool!
Maybe this will help. Cliff Notes: It says before you weld your liners in if you heat them up to 1400 to 1500 degrees then quench them in oil helps to harden them. Thought you might find it intresting. http://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35664&hl= BTW, It's good to see a little Old School still going on in the World.
Thats a great fix, love it:drinkup
That's a neat link- thanks!:drinkup I debated about hardening them first, but then figured I'd see if it was going to work at all first before getting too involved. Plus, I'd rather my admittedly unscientific and experimental "repair" to be softer than the tracks so that it will wear instead of them if I don't get it just right. If it goes well I'll harden them next time around. Atco, I know I used some pretty long and confusing words in my initial post, so I'll post a pic of the smoky old beast to reduce the strain on you (I'm sorry, but I just couldn't resist... I figure it's maybe an 8 hour drive from Knoxville to here, so if you read this tonight I figure I'll get punched out sometime in the AM- maybe nearer to lunchtime if you stop for breakfast. If you don't get back to the BB until tomorrow morning I'll figure on an attack by supper )
Homemade sprocket liners for my Allis Chalmers HD9: OMG... I love it, I love it... :lmao Just hunker down in the weeds... he'll never see you... :cool2 BTW... nice looking job... good sense of humor, too... :thumbsup OCR...
repair Looks like a good fix. My only concern, would be, will they match up with the track rails, looks like a bunch of work, but worth it, if it matches up with the rails. Its been several years, but I saw on eBay a sprocket repair kit. I havent seen them in a while. These were premolded units that weld on over the worn teeth. Keep us posted
It's worth a try. I've got some tall orchardgrass around the edges of the property that would probably offer pretty good cover. There was a suggestion in another thread that perhaps he couldn't swim and that there would be safety in large bodies of water, but he says he can so there goes that idea. Too bad, I had already committed to memory the location of various ponds, streams,and swimming pools and was ready to plunge in should the need arise. I wonder if he's a good climber? There's plenty of tall trees around that might offer an avenue of escape... For now, I'll just wear a striped workshirt so that I blend in with the grass and hope for the best.
That's funny! :drinkup Naaa, ain't no need hidin'. All I got to do is grow a beard and wear a go ta meetin' suit and tie and he won't recognise me! Then, when he ain't lookin' I'll sabatoge that Detroit in his Fat Allis by backing out the buffer screw a couple of turns on the governor and leave him scratchin' his head tryin' to figure out why it keeps stalling. But we ain't gonna tell Dave, OCR, we'll keep that our secret. :lmao
looks like a good job on the sprocket rebuild dieseldave.Thats a nice looking Allis Chalmers HD-9 high lift dozer.I also noticed the carco winch on the rear.Those old carco's are great winches.For Allis-Chalmers or Fiat -Allis parts I go to www.minnpar.com .
I got that winch off an HD11 years ago- it was well worth the effort, it's worth it's weight in gold if you need it. Years ago there was an unfortunate incident where both tracks fell off the D9, and it was in a mudhole where we couldn't jack and block it. Doubled the wire around a single block and the HD9 pulled it right out onto solid ground. The picture shows a later stage of the operation with one track back on the Cat but at first the ole Allis had to pull it out dead sideways. Hardest part was holding her back- I had her tracks and bucket buried, tied off to the backhoe with it's buckets and stabilizers buried, and had that lashed to the Mack and trailer with the maxi's on Uh oh, I didn't figure on sneakiness and subterfuge. I suppose that I'll just have to respond with extreme prejudice to any well-dressed strangers I see around the place and hope I don't get too many innocents by mistake:guns This is getting serious- first the man wants to sabotage my grader,now he's after my buffer screw Is nothing safe?
Quote: dieseldave Hey, you told me you was going to be hidin' in the tall grass...you wasn't supposed to see that! That's pretty cool dave, having an HD-11 winch on an HD-9. It was the other way around for me. I used to operate drill rigs mounted on HD-6, HD-9, and HD-11. Those things were notorious for getting stuck with a drill carriage and drill rods hanging onto the left side. Had to get a dozer to winch me out more than once.
I've been in the grass, but took the laptop with me ointhead It's been raining pretty hard here all day, not so sure how much longer I can hold out . Gettin' cold, too. As far as I could tell, the HD11 was just about identical to my HD9 except it had a 516 Buda instead of the 471. Might have had another track roller, eight per side rather than seven. Mine gets stuck easy, too- there's a lot of weight on those narrow triple grousers and it's easy to get in trouble on soft footing. Thank goodness for that winch:thumbsup
Man don't get me started on those old Buda engines! I ran a HD-6 that had a 4 cyl Buda. That was one of the best sounding engines I've ever heard when it was twisting a drill rod. I miss the old Buda engine Allis Chamler machines.
Homemade sprocket liners for my Allis Chalmers HD9: Well, don't go here, then: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buda_Engine_Co . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Allis-Chalmers_engines OCR...
The sprocket repair is finished and the old girl is back to work. The inserts seem to work well, no problems so far except for the track falling off when they settled in a bit and let the track loosen up too much and the operator didn't catch it in time . With the track back on and properly adjusted the machine works great and seems to have twice the power it did before the repair. Makes me wonder how many "dog" machines I've run over the years were victims of worn undercarriages?:beatsme
Nice repair Dave, really nice! :notworthy Now, how you gonna fix the operator that let the track fall off. :tong
It could be the added power of patting yourself on the back. You should be proud of yourself BTW. Anyone who can fix a problem with their brains and their hands instead of their checkbooks deserves to be looked up to.:notworthy IMO That fix is also keeping within the spirit of when that machine was made and the men that run it when it was new.:usa
Well said, Rodney...well said. :drinkup
Nothing's gonna fix that guy. I get so mad at him sometimes :cussing:Banghead I've tried to fire him but he just keeps on showing up:beatsme I was so busy congratulating myself that I didn't notice the track coming off until it was on the ground:lmao Seriously, I really appreciate you guy's comments. I get quite a bit of "why are you fooling around with that POS" and it's nice to know that not everyone thinks that way.
Nice fix DieselDave. I remember back in the 90s there were sprocket liners sold commercially. Does anyone know if they still exist,& if they were worth the effort.? Jim
That is a good repair, in fact I had considered it on my TD18 and still have the pipe halves somewhere to prove it........a couple things didn't work to my advantage though........the rails were stretched to 125% and I think the sprocket would have had to grow substancially in diameter for it to work.......hey somebody got all their money out of that U/C just too bad it wasn't me........LOL I think the liners are still available, pigeon products sticks in me hed for some reason :Banghead..........maybe I'll google abit. I would think those will wear in quite nice and probably last awhile, after tacking the center up did you must have massaged the edges outward????? I was even thinking of using weldable rebar as the tip as the edges get abit thick.........
Pigeon was the company that made the sprocket liners,they used to advertise in Rock and Dirt but I haven't seen them in awhile and couldn't find them on the web. I did tack the pipes in the center and then bash them to fit, more or less.
late replying but have been following along. looks good and how did you weld the inside??? when you moved the cat a head??? lots of moving and climbing about??? thansk KoO Published Author
King, I didn't even weld the inside yet Figured I'd let everything kind of settle in first. Here's a video of the old girl lumbering around YouTube - HD9 1.avi
[/ATTACH] this an hd6 we still use
bringing back memories Used to do the opposite to our first machene a old smoky fiat allis 7-gb . I whould weld round stock pieces to the top of the sprocket tooth . The problem was the sprockett whoudnt catch the chain . My innovative welding job worked every time . Whoud wear out in about three months or so. but that whoud be using it every day I wasnt working on the old girl. Now I painted her bronze and its 40 feet in the air as a part of our company sighn. Thanks for the trip back in time about 30 years.
Nice repair And as to hardening the inserts the mild steel pipe doesn't have enough carbon in it to make any difference an if it did you would pull it out when you welded it on:Banghead
I knew there was a reason I didn't do it, I just didn't know what it was until you told me:drinkup
What size tubing/pipe did you use? I'm looking to do a similar repair on my hd9 as well.
Think about it! Its ingenous .Brings back memories of making pillar bearings out of Hornbeam wood in Massachuettes.Soak them in oil an use them.
2.5 inch pipe is what I used
The big N word the mother of invention
Hey diesel dave what size pipe did you use to recap those sprockets. I have a HD-11 that is welled used but still runs good and works good but the sprocket on the left side is running a little thin in its teeth, and i think I might try what you did since i dont run that unit very much. Also did you weld the backside of the sprocket as well
Look 2 posts up LOL ointlaugh I welded both sides.
I used to get sprocket liners from Pigeon from R&D but they were bought out. I used them on trencher sprockets as the drive sprocket on the trencher the outfit had had bee nsmoked into place. I used to weld for an old man that had some dinosaur D8's that ran D9 sprockets and idlers and rails to up the speed for pulling pans. Every 3 months cap the rollers sprockets and build up the idlers. We even built up the bushings. On case hardening the carbon steel I think when the steel is red hot and quenched the oil ads carbon to case harden. In college machine shop we had to learn how to harden and Caseharden mild steel. We have also added Carbon powder and sealed it in the thick foil with a wad of paper to burn up the oxygen and add carbon.
Unfortunately it's not likely there's enough carbon in that pipe to harden. Don't know what material they used for the sprockets, but I wouldn't expect the "tube" repair to last too long. Should be okay on a limited-use machine though. I like the innovation.
Quenching oil won't add any enough carbon to the steel to harden it. Those pipes are probably very low carbon content, and won't be hardened unless case hardened. Hardest part will be the weld.
Here is one of the more properways to caseharden materials. We also had to use this in Tool and Die class but also later used it on trencher teeth, and treeshears. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=119479
for your information, pigeon products is still in business, and has not been bought out!! Call 701-463-2959 and leave a message on the recorder if i am not there. Bruce
You may as well weld the low alloy pipe in just as it is. Case hardening only hardens the surface and not very much of it at that. That would be a total waste of time as you still have mild steel under the thin crust of hardened metal, which won't last very long at all. Sprocket Liners are still available from Pigeon Product, 701-463-2959.
Wish I would have known that, wouldn't have messed around with the pipe if I knew you guys were still around. Used to see your ads in Rock and Dirt but haven't seen any for awhile. What would the cost be for a set of liners for an HD9 or something similar?
Sprocket Liners HD 9 Allis Sprocket Liners are available. We custom build these as there are not a lot of machines that use that size. Enough liners to repair 2 sprockets, 54 liners, 27 for each sprocket would cost $310.50 plus $25 for Shipping and Handling. The quality of the metal used to make the Sprocket Liners is what makes the difference. Plain old pipe is a waste of time as it does not last very long. We have a recorder on our phone for when we happen to be out of the office. 701-463-2959. Thanks for asking. Bruce