Recently bought a used 580K, and everything has gone pretty good. But recently someone with backhoe operator experience was going to use it, but said he couldn't use the hoe - "something was wrong". Well, come to find out that the boom and dipper are on the wrong sides of the controls. The dipper is supposed to be in the right and boom on the left, but, it's opposite on mine. Never had experience using a backhoe I have been learning just fine this way - didn't know any better. So, how could have ended up opposite? Should I change it back - does it matter as long as I am the only one using it? Does it work "better" if on the correct side? Any ideas on whether (why) someone would have changed it on purpose? What would I have to do to go back to normal (and relearn)? Thanks,
What are you calling the boom and the dipper and are you talking with respect to the operator sitting in the seat spun around for the backhoe? On mine the right lever is the boom which moves the tower out away from the machine. The center one moves what I think is called the dipper which extends the elbow out. Then my bucket is curled with the far left one. Then I have the two stabilizers that are outside these on both sides. If I am not confused the boom works with two cylinders on each side. I've never ran one other than a Case but if one was different I suspect it would be worse than starting over.
Yours is set excavator control he is used to backhoe control. If you can run it that way leave it that way maybe it will cut down on the one's wanting to borrow it. It is just a operator preference not fimiliar with case but should only be a few lines to change around.
Bowen, thanks for the reply. Just using operator manual terms the 'boom' is the first and main hoe lift(yep, where the swing cylinders are attached), and the 'dipper' the second - where the bucket is attached. My version of the controls (again, according to the operator manual) the right lever handles dipper and bucket, the left boom and swing, and I have 2 center controls for left and right stabilizers. I gather according to the manual yours must be a foot pedal swing. My foot pedals are static.
Yeah, obviously, reading what's been posted, Bowen is talking about the traditional Case 3 stick setup, with the pedals for swing. We've had lots of different discussions about control patterns. These days, pattern switchers are common enough that it's not as much of an issue as it once was. Why would somebody change it? Somebody that was used to excavator pattern wanted it that way. I guess the K models didn't come with a pattern switcher...
You have a machine that was set up with a cat pattern, most machines have the deere pattern, cat people use the boom and bucket right hand and stick and swing left hand, deere pattern has stick and bucket right hand and boom and swing left hand. They made kits to change the controls along with restacking the valve sections. Their is also a four lever like ford and older ih patterns and the three stick or four stick case with foot swing and or extendahoe. I myself will run them all but the cat pattern I cross my arms (never cared for it) but if it's on the machine I go with it. Most trackhoes now have the valve to switch patterns in seconds. The big thing is to make sure the decals in the machine match the pattern for both safety and osha if some one ever gets hurt with it.
Ha! Well if someone borrowed mine and did not like the levers, he would need to find another one. It's already a tad dangerous to stand too close to the hole with me working these sloppy swing cylinders. I just might flip a stump at you... I have bought 6 seal kits that I will get them installed as soon as I get me a 15 feet long pipe wrench... :drinkup
Cases of any modern vintage use secondary reliefs in the valve sections to protect systems from mechanical overloads induced by leverage pulling/ pushing against the cylinders. It is never good policy to switch hoses around to get different patterns. I have made new linkage rods for many to interchange the dipper/ boom functions, that is acceptable as it does not change which section is controlling what. If hoses have been changed I urge you to put it back the way it was made. Secondary pressures are different from function to function and you can create an unsafe and a potential to blow hoses or break cylinder rods if not corrected.
Melben, this is why I asked the question. Didn't know whether the valves for dipper and boom are the same or different. Or what potential problem could occur if switched. I also don't know how long it's been this way. And not sure how to tell if the 'boom' valve has been moved over and attached to the 'dipper' control handle, for instance. or whether just hoses have been changed around. It's confusing.
If you look at the backhoe lever control linkages, it will explain how they have done the changeover. The linkages, in standard format are all in a vertical formation. If they have done the mod properly, the links for boom & dipper will be in an X configuration. If they have swapped the hoses for the mod, the links will still be positioned vertically. So, take a look at the linkages, & tell us what you find.
Also if you go to the back side of the boom valve section, it will have a upper and lower plug fittings, under the plugs are the anti-cav valves, the dipper section does not have these. This is a sure sign that it was not done correct if the hoses from the boom go to a valve section without the plugs for the anti-cav valves
ok, it appears that it was not done correctly. The linkages are vertical and (thanks sheepfoot) the plugs are on the valve that is connected to the dipper, not boom. So, what next? Thanks for your help !!
That's bad news Johnhrich, here's some pics of what the sections look like. If the cavitation valves are on the dipper circuit - you will need to re-route the 4 hoses involved. Not knowing what else they have done, the secondary relief pressures may need to be tested. They may swapped them as well ....... :beatsme You will need a hyd hand pump to do that & gauges........ jobs getting bigger.....
Yes you are in a pinch now, alrman has told you the same thing I would have, you need the test block and a hand pump with gauge to check and or set pressures to be safe. If you have a dealer close by they can either check them on site or run it by them and have it done there. You can also screw out the four reliefs, tag each one and carry them to the dealer to check, the pressures may be right and just needed to be placed back in the right ports. You can't really flow them on the machine and get a true pressure like you would with the main relief or the steering relief, needs to be done with the hand pump.
ok. I know if a mechanic. But before I go through the expense, am I damaging the equipment it being this way? Judging by the age of the hoses it seems that it could have been that way for a while. No, I don't want to damage, or even risk damaging, the equipment. But don't want to change it back just for it to be in standard format. Thanks,
Really , cross your arms , and make sure the decals are correct , thank you .,
The cavitation valves are used to control oil flow when the equipment is used, faster than the oil can replenish the cylinder. ie - gravity makes the BH boom fall quicker to the ground than the oil can fill the other side of hyd piston in the cylinder. This may or may not affect you, it's a performance thing, speedy operating is required. However, there is a significant difference in secondary relief pressures between the boom & dipper sections. If these have not been set correctly, it does affect the operation of the hoe, which could 1) damage / bend the boom cylinder rod. 2) break the BH boom 3) break the BH swing tower Boom "A port", (upper relief) is set at a low pressure. Reason - as you pull the dipper & bucket through the trench, it relieves some pressure & lifts the BH boom automatically. If this has not been dealt with, the power of the hydraulics, combined with the weight of the machine, is putting a lot of undue stress on the boom components, hydraulic & mechanical. I will admit I have never seen a failure related to this, on a K, (with cast boom & single boom cyl) On an E, I have seen both boom cylinders bent like bananas, more than once. But, on a K, most guys swap the linkages to change the controls, not the hoses. If you didn't want to swap the hoses, in my opinion, you may be still OK for playing around on your own property. But those relief pressures really need to checked - cylinders ; BH booms ; swing towers are VERY expensive to buy.
Another thing I thought of - look at the circuit relief adjusting screws, the lower pressure setting will have more thread showing. So if the upper boom port is 'correctly' fitted, it will have more thread visible. The pics I have loaded are for a different model boom, so disregard their location in the section, but the screw lengths would be about right. On yours, the one with more thread showing should be at the top, near the spool. NOTE - the lower reliefs are actually different part numbers than the others & all their pressures are usually stamped on them - so you will need to confirm that a high pressure valve & the low one are what they should be. That they haven't just adjusted the dipper relief to the boom setting, & not swapped the reliefs between the sections. There are quite alot of things that may or may not have been done to the machine.:beatsme ...... I hope you can understand what is being said here, a Case trained fitter can sort this for you in no time at all, it just may sound confusing.....