Hi everybody, here's a question of a more philosophical nature rather than technical. For all you owner operators who do little jobs for people around the way, what do you do for people who want you to do things that are dangerous or abusive for the machine, or want a big expensive job done way faster and cheaper than is possible. The first situation I generally attribute to over hopeful ignorance about what these things can do and how expensive it is to fix them. The second situation, where people budgeted six hours for a job that could take two days, is generally signified by the customer getting agitated and making big waving motions with their arms, like I'm just not understanding and if I understood the the dirt would move itself faster. Sometimes the situation degrades, I generally try to be polite even if I'm getting angry, and explain why I'm getting annoyed and apologising for getting annoyed but SORRY IT'S JUST NOT LIKE THAT! Too expensive to fix this thing and go flip your own Backhoe down the hill. Rural Costa Rica, steep mountain terrain. Twenty one year old Deere 310d with 24k hours on it. Customers of limited means sometimes which also makes things difficult. Farm roads and rural building sites are the bread and butter. Anyone have any perspectives or advice? I suppose this theme runs across all aspects of contracting. Thanks! Sebastian
You have to remember that is this is a business ,you are here to make money not friends. If you are getting paid by the hour ,hold to your price . On contract hold to price . Most people don’t realize how long things take to do. I have a small welding business ,most people think it takes one hour to weld everything
i have tried hard to stay away from home owner work its just a pain all the way around no matter what and i have found it hard to get paid sometimes. it seems most customers dont know what it takes for the job because its not there profession. they dont understand to dig footings on the side of a hill that you need a road swatted in to get to the ditch it might take 6 hours to dig but it takes 5 hours to get a road to the ditch plus dealing with the dirt once its dug up so everyone behind you can work the job. so i have the attitude now of you called me to do the job here is the price if you dont like it call someone else. nothing else needs to be said. they are paying for your experience and most of the time if you try to explain it they still wont understand. i dont waste the effort. you are far better off to sit at home for a day than break even on a job or break down because you abused the machine to meet the cheap price
I over state the price and understate the quality before I put any machines on site. If the client says I'm to expensive I take it that the client won't have the dollar's to pay for a cheap job done badly. Figure it's better to stay home and go broke slowly than bust equipment doing a job you're unlikely to be payed for.
I just go out of my road to make sure I treat all my customers the way I like to be treated. Occasionally I decline the work if I'm not comfortable with the individual.
Thanks for the advice, everyone. I guess that's the balancing act, making sure you make that money and don't get screwed, while staying friends with everyone. I much prefer being friends with everyone because it's a very small community and it's nice that way. That said, I get pissed and tell people to send me home if they wish much sooner than I used to, after some experience. Been doing it as the main gig with the old Backhoe for about six months, before that had a little toy Kubota with a 3 point Backhoe for a few years and got started that way. Azlron, I particularly identify with what you're describing. About having to dig a road to get to the site etc... yes exactly! That type of nonsense.
Tones, good perspective about better to go broke slowly than break the machine. Cuz that'll make you broke real fast!
Dealing with the public can be terribly frustrating. I'm just an operator, but I still have to deal, with lack of a better word, stupid people. One of my jobs is prepping driveways for asphalt. If my job is not done right, there is only so much the pavers can do to fix it. When I first started, I was told that the spreader can always put it on thicker, but it can't cut out high spots. People have an idea of what they want, but never think about having to run water. Some people get it some don't. I don't have the patience to try an smooth someone's feathers. That's what the white hat is for. As far a 6 hour budget for a 2 day. You just have to turn them down. One thing about my boss and company owner, he is a man of his word, and he wants to do quality work. He has been dealing with a bout of cancer. We did a parking lot for a new ambulance building this fall. It was in an area that would be a 2 hour round trip for the gravel trucks, so we generally stock pile the tonnage we need at a closer site, and reload and haul with a single truck. I was less than half done when our truck driver said there was only a load left to bring. The white hat called the scales. They said it called for 450 ton and they sent 475. Checked the math on our plan, it was good. Checked our measurements, all good. Re calculated the square footage..... Way off. Called the big guy, he checked his work, and he screwed up. 450 ton became 1175. Ouch that also means the asphalt tonnage is off too. What do you want us to do? Do you want us to thin down the gravel, 2 inches instead of 6? No I agreed to that thickness and that price, and the customer copy had no tonnage, so it's my loss
When I was the project manager...Like Tones, I overstated the time and cost. It made people unhappy. When the project finished on time and under budget, everybody was happy. If I tried to make people happy before the project started with "nice" time and cost estimates... every body was unhappy at the end.
Nothing like buying brand new tires for your machine and showing up to the job with sharp rocks scattered everywhere. I learned my lesson. If it starts getting to the point where the machine is getting tore up I start talking rentals. Not worth it making couple thousand to spend it all on repairs.
Whats the saying>> Under-promise & Over-deliver.. But theres just some customers you CANT make happy.. I've done jobs were I tell the customer it'll be done on Friday.. I knew it was gonna be done on Thursday tho.. Then when I call on Thursday & say its done.. I get yelled at.. usually about money.. "You said it was goona be tomorrow.. I haven't been to the bank".. SO I end up getting paid on Friday anyway.. Lol
Finca, Does your 310D actually have 24,000 hrs? Mine is approaching 10,000 and I'm wandering how long it can last.
Hola Deon, Yeah, like 23,820 hours. Guess the common viewpoint around here is that if the thing doesn't get a hundred hours of work per month there's no point in having it, adds up to 1200 hours per year, and the thing's twenty one years old now. Gotta fix something with it every week it seems but it's usually minor... except for that clusterf--- with the reverser a while ago. All the machines around here have hours like that on them. the CAT for sale around the corner is from 2008 and has like 11,000 hours on it, and it was way out of my price range. it just recently needed an expensive piston replacement too, just to show that there's no guarantees that a newer machine won't need expensive repairs. I think your 10,000 hour machine will last for a long long time. Until deere stops having parts available, which is what scares me.
Wow, 23,820. That's interesting and amazing. I don't know of any backhoe with that may hour around this area. How many hours did it have when you bought it? Do you know if the motor or any other major component has been rebuilt?
I know, when I started looking at machines here I was using the point of reference I'd read about, ten year old machines with three thousand hours or whatever, 10,000 is pretty close to done. None around here to be had like that! Machinery work earns more than anything legal in this economy, and since it's like a developing economy there's a lot of demand for earth moving to move the development forward. So you keep doing that, if someone has a machine they try to work it constantly with the meter running. Trying to work full time, getting a hundred hours per month isn't that much, especially factoring in roading to jobs and stuff. Surprised me at first too but now I'm used to it. Repair labor isn't that expensive (relatively, compared to up north), parts are stupid expensive. Truth is though, the only thing thats expensive is down time not working! Breakdowns and repairs are just a cost of doing business.
hours is a relative number meaning relative to the use in those hours. owner operator machines will usually see way more hours than anything else. you can wipe a machine out in 5000 hours with bad operators and no maintenance one guy had 18000 on a 310d before he sold it another guy has 2 410 i forget witch series but one has over 15000 and the other is approaching 10000. we have a cat 416c with 11500 and aside from the usual hoses and ram seals its all factory in fact its never been re pined or bushings we had a 416b with 12000 and never really had problems another owner op has a 416b with 27000 on it probably more now cause that was a few months back. if you take care of the machine and know how to work on them within reason they will last a really long time. as for parts on most of the stuff we own if you take the time to go looking you can source parts from other suppliers than oem places it just takes a little leg work most nuts and bolt pieces are pretty generic