Since I run other equipment and not a grader, this might sound like a stupid question. But here goes anyway. The local road where we live in the country is a really crappy gravel road. The municipality comes by with a grader once in a while, filling in the worst of the potholes and washboard. The road has a lot of rocks that keep coming up, including some a foot or more across. Most of the rocks are four to six inches across, and there are thousands of those just at the surface. For years, all the operators graded this road at a crawl, carefully watching their progress, banging along through the rocks. Sometimes they just made the mess worse, especially when they went too deep. Usually after the grader went by, we had to go along picking up the bigger rocks and throwing them off to the side. The washboard got real bad lately, after no grading for three or four months. Then one day I heard the grader (a brand new Volvo) come flying down the road at road speed, at about twenty to thirty miles an hour. It went by in a flash, but to my surprise I saw that the blade was down. Then a few minutes later it came back the other way, and then it came by a third time. The surprising thing is that the road is graded better than usual. And the operator did not drop the blade enough to pull up lots of rocks. I'm wondering if speed grading (or whatever it might be called) is a new or common technique. I'm wondering too what will happen when the blade catches one of the bigger rocks??
Okay it's my turn... Wait a minute... I've been operating graders for many, many years and to grade a road as you describe, or any type of road for that matter at that speed is just not possible. Are you sure of the speed? It might be that the other graders were going so slow that it might appear that the Volvo was going that fast? :beatsme
I've seen a couple roads around here bladed about 10-15 mph and the job generally looks like you would expect. I'm guessing your guy had the blade down with just enough pressure to throw some loose material into the middle with the two passes then just spread it back over the middle with the third, making it look good but not last too long. Kinda sounds like you need some gravel spread to raise the road or they should do a tear out.
Well, I didn't have a radar gun on the Volvo, but he was going about the speed that graders usually travel when moving from one place to another with the blade up. I stared in amazement when I noticed that he actually had his blade down. The road certainly could use some rebuilding, but it's not likely to happen. The worst stretch of the road goes through about a half mile long stretch of coarse rock and gravel. Other than that, the road bed is clay with a lot of slightly protruding rocks and a little gravel on top. What I would not give for a paved road!!!
Is it possible that he was throwing everthing towards the middle of the road? I ran a road grader for the county that I live in for about 7 years. It took a couple of years before I could do it but I would wait for a nice rain and the next morning I would put the outside edge of the blade on float and the inside about an inch high and go just as hard as I could. That being said I always ran carbide blades and they don't cut near as much as a sharp blade. On the flat I could run my 140 H in 7th gear and start droping as soon as you come to a hill. Most people thought you had just graveled the road because all of the material was in the center of the road and there were no windrows. If you left to much it got rough, you could control how much material you were cutting with the curl of the blade. All the way forward you didn't cut much and all the way back you cut way to much and had a heck of a mess. You could start to feel a bounce and got out of it just as soon as you could. This wasn't for everyone, most of the older operators wouldn't even think of this method, mainly because they were taught to only go so fast no matter what. Now most of the blading was done in 4th gear around 5-6 mph or slower as conditions needed. I know I'll catch some heck for this but it worked great for my roads, weither they were high or low traffic.
Welcome to the forum Pete1468 I can't really speak for any other older operator, but I can speak for myself...It wasn't a matter on what I was taught 30 plus years ago, but it was what I learned through experience. I go just as fast as I can according to the conditions I'm working in. This is done in second & third gear and at times on a rock free road I have hit fourth gear. My point is that nobody can tell me that you can grade a road in high gear and do a good job. Also consider what grief you would be placing on your grader. I would hate to see new grader operators that frequent this forum think that would be proper grading procedures, because it's not. Now having said all of that this is just my opinion and hopefully will spark some discussion.
I do agree faster you go worke dont get that good. Somtimes things dont hat to be 100% maby that is problem we all hat as operators hat , we like all to be so perfegt / Polar Bear
I must have been realy lucky, I got a machine with 3700hrs on it when I started and I put on a little under 10,000 hrs. I had a transmission failure the first winter that I started, it was the second tranny the machine had in 4500hrs, and it never had another after that. We run all of our maintainers to around 20,000 hrs and most wil go that long without any motor work, and a couple will have a tranny rebuilt. Each machine is replaced every 14 years. Like I said it's not for everyone. Most all of the older guys won't run carbide blades, I had to because a couple of my roads were 60ft wide for a couple of miles. When alot of your material is crushed concrete you do all sorts of different things because the only time you can really blade it is when it's wet or you have a big windrow. I must have done something the people liked, the guy before me had 2-3 complaints a week and so did the guy after me. I'll admit the first summer was hell I got that many complaints also until I figured out to do something different.
Sometimes slower is faster.
...young pups vs. old dogs...... I hear what you are saying Pete1468 about going fast and throwing the gravel in the middle.I have done it your way by going top speed but not with the toe in float.Like you said carbides are the answer for doing gravel and also using the moldboard curl to cut or spread more or less.What I do when a busy grid road gets punched out and all the gravel is thrown to the edge of the road I will cut fairly hard pulling into centerline on both sides.This will leave a nice sized windrow right in the center,I then spread it going in 6th or 7th depending on how far the gravel is spreading to the shoulder by making this a third pass.The only I do this is when the road is punching out or to re-crown.Usually I only make 2 passes by picking up my gravel I spread flat to one side last time and cutting and filling and cutting and filling across the road to the other side. Getting on with the blading speed I run on average 12 to 16 km/h, (yes this is with a 11speed VOLVO.....) and I manage quite fine going this fast with no ripple or duck walk.On my old Volvo 740A with the 8 speed I could only max out at about 10 km/h.THis is without rocks! I don't know why some figure that you have to only blade in 2 and 3 gear, maybe you should tighten up your blade and circle if your making ripples in the road! See maybe us young pups can teach you old dogs a thing or to as well!! (But you would actually have an open mind and try it first!!!) Hope this doesn't raise your blood pressure to much!I thought I would just :stirthepot a little bit more as all,LOL!
Duck Walking ? Duck Walking is caused by going too fast for ground conditions ! No matter if brand new machine or old worn out one !
Okay, so all you young pups agree with this. Good stuff. In the 140 H is it an 8 forward? So how fast was you going? No rocks right? No bounceing (duck walk) Wow, this new technology :notworthy I think you and I have discussed speed before Sooo try it at top speed as per discussion? Quite a difference between 12 to 16 Km/hr and 20 to 30 miles per hour. Open mind? Good lord man over the years do you think I've never tryed to increase my speed? Do you think that I just go slow because I'm older than dirt? Speed grading..Lol. What next. Don't worry about my blood pressure because I don't have a heart
:lmao:lmao:falldownlaugh:falldownlaugh:deadhorse Just tell them the real truth....that your Bullock team just don't pull as fast as it used to!
Lets see..left is hee and right is haw..
Yes you are right about going to fast for duckwalking but also it depends on how loose the circle,moldboard,lift cylinders,drawbar, and maybe even the odd plastic or should I say BIAS tire, also maybe even a Radial or two with different air pressures. Yes I have tried going wide open in 7th by pulling in the edges to the center with no bounce but like you guys know already that this is very hard to do to keep the grader from bouncing going this speed.It can be done, but I should make myself clear that I do not do this all the time.( Only on special occassions!) I never said "you were older than dirt" --- you did!! What is a Bullock team? Isn't that a game with horse bones or somethin'? Can I play with you guys??
:yup :thumbsup :drinkup
grader speed There was a discussion about this a few months back. I'll make my points again. First I think a description of the machine used is required. There is a tremendous difference in machines, tires, moldboard slop, etc. I'm normally in a JD machine with less than 3000 hours on the clock. I now run on 17.5 radials. I'm with Roadrunner and often grade my roads as he described. I run 6.5-7 mph the first two passes depending on conditions. I run 14 mph the final pass. When I'm done there is no windrow of material unless it's an occassional pile of vegetation. My roads look like they were just graveled. This paragraph is based on equal quality of the finished product. My argument for speed operation is to maximize productivity against expense. I operate for a tax based government entity. Their income is fixed. The number of miles of roadbed to maintain is fixed. As operational costs climb it becomes even more critical to be most productive. So, if I grade in 3rd gear at let's say 5.25 mph for three passes I will complete 1.75 miles of road in an hour of blade operation. If I grade at 6.5 for two passes and then finish at 14 mph I will complete 3 miles of road in an hour of blade operation. Let's say I run an 8 hour day. At the end of the day at slow speed I've completed 14 miles of road maintenance. At the end of the day at fast speed I've completed 24 miles of road maintenance. I maintain 50 miles of gravel roadbed. At slow speed it would take me 28.5 hours. At fast speed it would take me 16.5 hours. Let's say it costs my township $80 per hour to have our machine running. Each time I run all my roads it would cost the township an additional $960. If I run my roads ten times in a year I just lowered the yearly maintenance cost $9600. We are on a $40K budget. I just saved 24% of the yearly cost by speed grading. Again, if the end quality is the same, why wouldn't I do it as fast as I can???? :beatsme
Yes, I heard your story before. Come out and grade the roads in my area at that speed. The original poster stated that the grader was grading at 20 to 30 miles per hour, so this would be in high gear, hence my reference to "speed grading" I don't recall you saying that you graded at that speed, but I'm sure you can do it. Probably trim some more off the budget :thumbsup There, I'm done defending the fact that I go slow. Maybe I'll get a new user name.. how about ..."pokealong joe" Wait a minute...I like it! Mods?
Just how big was the cowboy hat the operator of the Volvo grader grading in top gear had on ????
Not sure - he was going so fast it was hard to tell. Come to think of it, maybe he was wearing a crash helmet.
Hey Swampdog That fella grading a road flat out is definately a cowboy !! If i owned that machine and caught him doing that the second fastest thing around would be his **** down the road. But still a good comment mate !! Pete
Gov't work Hello Ovrszd, So when you get done grading, what do you do ? Still get paid to do something ? Or go home ? Most municipal,county, state gov't employees are year round employees . Some are seasonal, just for summer grading or winter snow removal as the case may be. When active work is done ,most just burn up the clock, to get their day in. Much like police, firemen, etc. Nothing wrong with that, just the way things are. Otherwise nobody would just work part time, if they did not have another income source. Around here, they call it deferred maintenance, just do nothing, let the people ride rough roads, saving money for some other project or work in the future. Up here, if you did what you describe, something would be broken shortly. Cutting edges do break from high speed impacts. End bits crack, hydraulic tilt cylinder starts leaking, excessive wear on the wear strips occur. If you do not have the Nitrogen shock accummulators, then the lift cylinders start leaking, windows get cracked, door latches worn out. Etc, etc. Just hard on the blade. We call it abuse. We have hard packed natural gravels, not screened or crushed for most rural roads. Our roads degrade to become a series of potholes and washboard. Only slow 2nd-3rd gear grading rectifies such conditions. Heavy cutting 1st 2-3 passes and then distributing material back over in repeat 2-3 passes. Water truck is used or wait till a heavy rain occurs, then do grading. I just don't believe what you high speed roadsters are saying . I've been grading all my adult life , going on 40 years now, hard to believe that also.
Thanks Northart! I was beginning to believe I was on my own with this one On edit..Welcome to the forum Peter Kennedy! I agree with your comments
speed grading First let me say, I never take anything said here personally. I never make comments about not believing someone, discounting their ability to operate a machine or acuse them of abuse or misuse of their eguipment. I'm not a judge. I'm just a lowly grader operator with twenty years of experience at gravel road maintenance. I always enter into discussions on here to share my experiences or to ask questions to broaden my knowledge. I have a full and indepth understanding of variable conditions. What works for me might not work at all for someone else. Just as my roads are rarely all ready to be graded at the same time, too many variables in roadbed type, traffic volume, etc. I didn't offer my input in this thread to convince anyone to do anything. You can grade in 1st gear, 5th gear or reverse if that's your preference and I'll never criticize you for doing it. In my neck of the woods it's township form of government. Of the twenty townships in my county there is only one that has a fulltime operator. By that I mean he gets paid so many dollars an hour for so many hours a week whether he cranks the grader or not. One other township pays their operator a fixed salary, so much a month, again regardless of whether he grades or not. The other eighteen townships pay their operators an hourly rate, no benefits, and only pay them when they are being productive. So, if I trim hours of operation off the time to grade my roads I save my taxpayers money. As I said above, I'm saving them money at the tune of somewhere around $80 for each hour I trim. I don't get in the grader and cruise around looking for something to do. I drive my roads in my personal vehicle on my nickel when I am doing that. Then I go get the grader and have a specific target area to work on. I don't even like to sit along the road and eat my lunch because I don't want taxpayers thinking I'm on the clock and not being productive. That mentality has served me well. I don't get complaints. My taxpayers wave at me, stop me and talk to me, offer me coffee or a snack in the middle of the night when I'm pushing snow. I'm proud of the service I provide them. I've never broke a cutting edge, shattered a window, caused cylinders to leak or anything even close to that. I'm not abusive to the machine. I treat it like I bought it. I wash it regularly on my nickel. The inside of the cab is as clean as the inside of my truck or car. When we trade machines our trade-in is ready to go to the next owner without any shop repairs required. No busted lights, mirrors, missing panels, etc. I take pride in that also. Sorry to go on a rant. Just thought some clarity was in order. I respect everyone on here, especially Northart and Grader4me. One last comment. I've had people ask me if I grade in high gear?? I say oh God no, can't go anywhere near that fast!!! They'll say well I saw you the other day and you were going 20-30 mph grading?? I always politely enlighten them that it only appears I'm going that fast. We are so used to seeing a grader crawling along at a walk pace and it just looks like it's going 20-30 mph when it's actually going 14 mph. Now see,,,,,,, I could have simply made that statement as my first post on this thread. But I would have been indicating that the original poster didn't know what he was talking about. But I chose to discuss my grading pattern as an example that maybe the operator actually knew what he was doing. :cool2
Rant ? Hello Ovrszd, Think your reading something into my post that is not there. It's not a personal attack , nor do I feel that obvious others making it personal. They are saying what they want and I am responding. Discussing, in the way I know. Might be blunt, to the fainthearted . Whoops, is that criticizing ?? LOL Anyhow, just wondered how your paying for the maintenance, as it certainly varies around the country. I recognize some gov't units, are poverty stricken budgets and others are flush with the $$$ . And it shows in the roads. Goods roads and bad roads. As for public perceptions of working, geez people got to eat. I see the State guys here at all hours in the coffee shop, knowing they been up all night plowing the roads. They don't feel guilty about eating. LOL Yes, I've seen the evolution of maintenance here. Started out as hourly, to lane miles , to lump sum. Now they want to go gov't salary and owned equipment. Kind of neat to see the varies schemes over the years as they try for the most bang for the $ . Some plans really get abused , but as gov't gets more sophisticated , so does the contracts. Efficiency of administration improves, levels of service improve, seems everything get s better as time passes. Equipment abuse, I could write books on that subject. See plenty of that in construction. Anyway , I stuck that in there for other readers , so they would recognize what abuse is ! Anyway , I don't believe the stories about high speed grading. LOL Trying to be polite. PS Sounds like your underpaid. Have a great day.
bluntness Yep Northart, I know all about bluntness!!! Heheheheh. I was just replying to your comment of "I just don't believe what you high speed roadsters are saying". In Missouri that means you think we are making it up or stretching the truth. I know all about government. Mostly Federal level but for the past twenty years also local level. I've been a government employee of some manner since February 09 1971 when Uncle Sam said "We want you". I am a grader operator because I love it. It damned sure ain't because it pays well. I grew up on a farm and have ran machinery since age 7. It's my sanity in a generally unsane world. I just started carrying a cell phone a year ago. I like the independence and solitude of operating a grader at the level I'm at. I have no desire to operate at the construction level that most on here do. But I sure do learn a lot of tricks from those guys. No offense here Northart, just open minded discussion.
Thanks alot OVRSZD, you always take the words right out of my mouth! Now I have nothing to debate with the "old dogs" about anymore.You older fellas know I'm just razzin' yah right? If we didn't it sure would be boring with very few posts on here!(Yes I also respect your opinions Northart and G4Me.:notworthy) Great conversation guys do we keep going or find something new to chew on? Hey Peter, have you heard of KID ROCKS song" I want to be a cowboy baby?" I think that is what all those darn VOLVO guys want to be when they are "Speed grading". Oh ya-------------- I drive a VOLVO to.........:crazy ointhead
I think you can speed grade in IOWA. If you needed a rock you would need to order one from Sears. The roads are not that firm and most have a sandy mix of gravel. Just don't mess with the corn. I have only graded once So this comment and $2.50 will get you a beer at the lcoal saloon.
There are some big differences in blading. One is what kind of material you have to work with and another is if you run carbide blades or not, and probably another one would be speed. I ran carbides just as long as I could, until it froze. If you haven't run a set of carbides it's hard to describe how they feel, you can do some different things with them that you wouldn't think about with normal blades. They don't work very well at all for sod or any dirt work. They don't cut, they almost push some of the material down. The cutting edge is so thick it doesn't cut like most poeple think a normal blade will, you have to put down pressure on the blade to get them to cut. The best gravel that I got to work with was all inch minus crushed concrete, that will get smaller and smaller all summer long. Road gravel is getting very hard to find, most is basically sand with some little pebbles as rock. Speed to me is just another tool to use with the machine. It was not used every time I bladed but is nice when needed. There are deffinately times when you have to go 3-4 mph, most of the time I ran 5-6 mph and so did all of the other operators. To those that say you can't run a blade that fast, how fast do you push snow off a road? Do you run a wing and a blade at the same time when pushing snow?
Come on for gods sake. I can't believe that I'm even responding to this statement. Don't you even know the difference between plowing snow and grading a road??? Being as polite as I can possiblly be..give your head a shake..
If you can push snow with any speed at all you're half way there. You can start to feel any sort of a bounce while pushing snow you know to get out of it right away. Try and think of a 6 inch snow that's wet and heavy when the ground isn't frozen and muddy.
Looks like we are still going on with the great debate:woohoo!
Hummmm...no thanks, I'll bow out. Now I'm being told how to properly plow snow..Me thinks that I'll get into a discussion that makes sense, after all I've only plowed snow for 30 years and now I train people how to plow snow.I am typing this on a computor at a motel because we are providing a One Person Plow training course this week. So Gee whiz what would I know about plowing snow??:beatsme All said though, I think that I might be "half way there" LOL
Come talk to us in 2039 when you get some more seat time, then maybe we'll listen to your suggestions...:stirthepot rofessor:lmao
speed grading Wow Grader4Me, you are usually pretty calm in these discussions but this one has really gotten under your skin. Kinda funny when you consider that you were one of the first to post comments about the integrity of operators that go any faster than fourth gear. When one operator posted a comment about what gear he sometimes finished in you chastized him and then asked how many forward gears a 140H has. When one operator posted comments about pushing snow you accused him of saying you don't know how to push snow. I reread the posts several times and never found that. I think Pete used the snow reference to make the point that an operator can in fact control a machine in a gear faster than a walk. For me, 90% of the time, I push snow in 6th gear. Since you might not know how many gears my machine has I'll clarify, that's 14mph. As I said earlier in this thread, I respect you and Northart as experienced operators that have a lot to offer any discussion. But sometimes I think the older operators tend to get set in their ways and respond a little quickly to styles they don't agree with. No one here is trying to tell you or anyone else that they don't know how to operate a grader. I think everyone is just offering discussion and personal experiences and opinions. There's a huge amount of variables involved in this discussion since we have operators thousands of miles apart. For example Grader4Me, if I graded my roads in 2nd and 3rd gears, sometimes getting into 4th gear, people would think there was something wrong with me. I'm not even sure what speed 2nd gear is since the only time I use it is to cut and push heavy loads. Actually with variable power JD machines they will push as much in 3rd as they do in 2nd. But I digress. Lastly, for clarity, I'm 57 years old. But I don't consider myself an old operator. I also don't consider myself a young pup as some have been called in this discussion either. I consider myself a considerate operator that's alway open to new ideas. I always learn something here, sometimes it's more to do with individual personalities than with operator expertise. :notworthy
Most times I end my posts with a wise crack up but there are times I do get riled a little. I get riled when someone tells me to give this or that a try. Be open minded etc. So who's integrity is really being questioned? You have to understand I know what works and what doesn't as I've had many years of practice. The original post was a guy grading a road at 20 to 30 miles per hour. Again this is what I based my "high speed grading" on. This was my quote..So this was insulting? I just asked a simple question Now who's being rude Anyway, I'll be a man and apologize to anyone that I've insulted
speed So can we all just agree that it makes no damned difference how fast you prefer to grade or how fast I prefer to grade as long as we are creating a good end result without destroying the machine?? :drinkup
Agree'd, nuff said.:drinkup
Sure we can. Just because you grade too fast is no reason to get upset.:drinkup You ever drive I think it's buchanan blvd out by Inwood IA? One side at about a 15% slope and the other side of the crown at about 2% slope, switching places on occasion!
I really didn't know that someone's ideas could be so hard to swallow. I guess that I'll say my peace and go back to reading and not posting. If everyone did something exactly the same, everybody would have the exact same problems and nobody could figure out how the change something to make it work for them or help someone else change something. All roads would be the exact same, some would be perfect and some wouldn't be passable because that's how it's done and it can't be changed. Enough said sorry for stirring up trouble.
Pete1468, don't mind me, I just take things a little personal at times. I'm sorry I was so hard on you. Please enjoy this great forum and don't hesitate to view your opinions at any time. I will look forward to your posts
Pete, to somebody with maybe 20 hours total of grader time, 30 years ago, this is like sitting back and listening as Vincent Van Gogh, Andy Warhol, Leonardo Da Vinci, Salvador Dali, and Pablo Picasso conduct an impassioned discussion what makes great art. Anybody who's getting excited is only doing so because of the passion they bring to their work. Great discussion. :notworthy (The only real surprise is that Deas hasn't spoken up. Must be off touching up the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel...)
Agree Yep Pete I agree. That's why I boldly express my ideas. I don't expect to change anyone to my ways. As I said earlier, I actually don't care whether others agree with me or not. I'm not trying to convince anyone, just expressing my ideas. If Northart told me he can make a grader float I wouldn't claim it to be impossible. Or if Deas told me he can make a grader fly I wouldn't claim it impossible either. I would however open my mind and listen to what they had to say. If their information served me I would use it, if not I would file it as entertainment. An 80 year old operator next to me likes one lane flat roads. I like my roads wide and crowned. Him and I have discussed these concepts before with no flexibility on his part. We've had excessive moisture the past couple years. I notice his roads becoming wider and having more crown lately. Hmmmmmm. Whatever you do Pete, don't let these bastards you run you off!!!! As in everyday life, you have lots of allies here, they are just silent. Also realize the next discussion you get involved in you might find Grader4Me and Northart to be your strongest defenders
I've watched this post for some time, and find it realy interresting. I have to say that if someone of you guy's where over here, you would say that all operators doing road maintenance here in Norway is "Speed grading". Let me do some explanatin...heck...here is some smart solutions we got on our graders: - Most got sideshift acumulators.(Volvo got it originaly) Theese acumulators takes the shock that the blade gets if it hits a hard object. Meaning it just swings out to the side instead of breaking something. Got two of them so it can swing both ways. - Many got acumulators on the mainlift sylinders. Pressure is adjusted to the conditions, and if u hit something harder than adjusted pressure, blade is feathering upwards. - Many also got the constantpressure system. This system monitors the downpressure and lets go if pressure gets higher than adjusted. With theese systems u can increase your speed without destroying the grader. The fine thing here is that theese systems removes the nesessity of adjusting the blade constantly, u adjust your downpressure and just keep on driving. The cut is then adjusted with the angle of the blade. Doing ice grading can with no problem be done up to 30-40 km/h. Top speed is then limited by bounce and cut. With a real big cut u dont got enough Ooommmp to keep the speed up... Cut is of course related to the wear on the ice.(I cut to get the road nice and even) Of course asphalt will give way if you go from ice to no ice with the same high bladepressure. I use the same technic on gravel roads, and it works great.. Bounce is whats limiting the speed.(gravel needs higher downpressure than ice) Theese tecnical improvements will come to you too, and then many of the old "rules" about what destroys a grader will change. The sideshift acumulator is already pushing that now... Note: This is not a reply to raise the temp in this good thread. LOL. And ill see if i get the chance too shoot a video in a couple of weeks. (Got a week off now..)
Lol..I agree..this is coming from the old b*****d himself Okay, I can see this, but MKTEF how fast can you go with this system grading a road? At what point does it bounce? Now the loaded question..can you grade at 20 to 30 miles per hour? I promise to keep cool. :cool2
Now is the time to keep cool. Its been 22 below for a week, and i have been putting a lot of logs into my fireplace. Made a video and posted it on youtube today. Its from one of my last days at work before holiday. The G976 handels F10 at flat ground, but shifts down to F9 if it gets steeper. Bounce comes around 30-35 kmh.(with chains and todays tyrepressure) It shifts to F11 downhill, but its bounce imediately.(apr 35-40kmh) And there isn't enough grumph to keep that speed on flat ground with a desent amount of cut. Constantpressuresystem takes care of the bladepressure. I mainly adjust the cut with the angle of the blade.(pitch) Cut is here so big that the tracks after chained trucks are removed. Apr 1to 1,5 inch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVuiUEb2KiQ Yeah, and road is not open to public transport, and most of the users was already off on holiday.
Cool as a cucumber my man. You won't get any debate from me about cutting ice with sandvic or with standard serrated ice blades. I go just as fast as I can as well. Great video.
speed grading Great video!!!! Next time I push snow I'll try to do that also. Since I don't have a pressure control system I'll have to figure out how to hold the camera, maybe in my mouth??? Maybe duct tape it to my forehead??? I'll figure out something. I've got a question for you though MKTEF, do you ever have a problem with snow dust clogging your air filter??? One time last year I was about ten hours into pushing a dry, dusty snow and my air cleaner sensor went off. I stopped and opened the airbox to find it full of snow. I cleaned it out and shook all the snow out of the outer filter and went back to work. Only happened to me once. I'm curious if your fenders might keep the snow dust level to a minimum and avoid this problem for you??? I also seem to get a abnormal buildup of ice around the rear of the machine. Under worst conditions it will be almost dragging the ground under the rear of the machine. I contribute that to the swirling snow dust created by running at speed also??? Thanks again for shooting the video, I'll try to do that as well. We've had a thaw and I'm back to reshaping gravel right now so I might try to get a video of my finish pass at 14mph doing that.
Thanks Ovrszd. I havent had any problems with the airfilter clogging. Seems to me that the fenders do a realy god job on the way snow and air moves around the grader. The buildup i am experiencing is on the board, A-frame and onto to right side of the frontaxle. This is due to the snow beeing trown forward and out to the side. With the fenders there is no snow trown up at the engine compartment. In the film i have chains up front, and as u can see there is nearly any throw from them. That area stays clean and neat the whole day.. I drive with the rear camera on the whole time. Have no problem seeing the result all/most of the time. Is some drift when i use the front blade, i have a plan for a rubber mat on the top of the blade. We got the big belly plates under the engine compartement, so there is not so much for anything to stick on to. There is even plates on the inside of the fenders on the back. Drift has no way of getting into/onto the engine compartement.
By the way, there is a video on youtube of a Canadian guy.(whoelse?) He modified a plastic helmet with a clip on the front where there was a mounting bracket for a camera. He had different models ranging from only a whole with a bolt into the underside of the camera, to a more advansed one with a cameraholder from a tripod mounted on it. Found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlOKxuBy_Go
I checked out the building site for Volvo graders... There is a kit from the factory to take care of that problem. Do you know if yours have it? Ours are specded to the maximum by the importer so i bet we got it on hours. (they say that most of it is Scandinavian "modell" spesifications) I don't know what that kit exactly is, but we could take some pics and compare..
camera I built a camera mount for my Jeep. I've got a rollcage with a crossbar just above the dash. Clamped a homemade bracket to that bar that my camera fastens to. The only problem there is that it's fixed in one direction. The helmet idea is a good one. I tried to video today holding it in my right hand. Wouldn't you know it, my battery died about ten seconds into the first video. I'm all charged up now so will try it again tomorrow. I'll also take some closeups of my breather system so we can compare with what you have. I start before daylight now and can run until about noon before it thaws too much and I start pushing mud. I'm mostly moving the loose gravel back onto the roadbed that I pushed off when removing snow. Yes,,,, I push off a little gravel,,,, sometimes,,,,,, especially when I get tired,,,,, must be getting old..... Maybe I need more coffee!!!!
Hey Ovrszd, I had that problem last year on a 160 h with the air filter plugging withn hours of starting to plow.Had totake the precleaner off and make a 'cannister-style" cover to go over the bottom of the precleaner that stuck out of the hood.This worked great with no plugging after as I was drawing warm-snow free air from inside the engine compartment.I have been very lucky this winter by olny plowing once so far(KNOCK ON WOOD!), only about 6-8 inches of snow.(Been to friggin' cold to snow!!!!) I just put on a factory plate-cover Volvo sent for my G970 and took off the precleaner.I don't know if I will need it cause we have never changed anything for plowing on our old Champs. and Volvo's but sucking warm air I don't think will hurt anything..
Nice video MKTEF, I am going to see if our Volvo mechanic can make my 970 shift from 10th to 11th not at around 2100 rpm and maybe lower the rpms before it shifts to 11th to kkep from sometimes bouncing.It seems like I have to much power on and the machine starts to "free-wheel" before it shifts, making it want to bounce. Do you know if this can be done?
I can tell u one thing, your local mecanics wount be able to do anything within the software of your gearbox. The quickest and easiest thing to do to get what u want is to switch over to T transport mode, then it will change gear on lower RPM's. Switch over when u get to 9th or 10th. I think that we are using our graders in a way that Canada hasn't thought of yet. Bet they are not constructed for "high speed" maintenance grading. A change in the software might arrive as they get aware of how we are pushing the limits here. I'm not shure if i have asked this before, but u have gotten the latest software upgrade on your transmission? Shifting has been improved in that upgrade. My experience is that the bounce is not so much dependent of the gear/RPM, it starts by some of the bumps in the road. The higher speed, the easier it is to trigger it. High down pressure makes it possible to go faster before it appears. Found out i can stop it by increasing downpressure too.
Thanks, I will try TRANSPORT mode and see if that works. WE put new Attinuators in the transmission to help with the harsh shifting and it solved the problem.Just need some snow to try it out!
We got one of ours upgraded with a new software last year and that made a change in the shifting. December they arrived and made the update on the rest of our machines.(One of the last weeks before xmas) Then they even got more inside that upgrade. Looks to me that they constantly improve the software for us. I have the impression that its important that your mechanic is keeping himself updated by contact with your US/America grader tech guy at Volvo. That way u can give inputs, and get the latest news early.(and maybee some test software before it gets released..)
Wow. Some of this stuff about speed blading (in the beginning of the thread) is kind of spooky. The only time I've used any amount of speed is when I'm regrading (after my initial first cut of the road surface) and only then while remixing the surface material before I respread it to grade. I take care of 65-70 miles of heavy traveled farm to market roads year round,been doing it for 25+ years now and found it to work quite well. Normal blading takes me 5-6 days to completely cover my section of the county. As for speed blading,I'd rather have 12-15 miles of good road behind me at the end of the day than 20-25 miles of bad.
Yeah.. we pretty much beat this one to death. Sometimes it's best to agree to disagree....keeps the blood pressure down..lol
I agree. Agree to disagree does help keep the feathers down. Blood pressure,the jury is still out on that one. lol I had an old boy (geeeze now I'm one of them ...almost ha ha),tell me. Kid,there are two kinds of people on equipment. Lever pullers and operators... and it's easy to see who's who on a the motorgraders. It's fun watching a new "know-it-all" get on a grader when one of the old boys retires here. ...and they're going to "show us how it's really done". I learned over the many years,let them get thrown off the horse a few times and they'll listen allot better if they really want to learn something.
What are running for a grader MadMax? On edit...see you're operating a Deere (viewed some more posts of yours)
We had the same problems with the stock Cat precleaners..I put a cyclone ejector on all our graders and haven't had any issues with snow or dirt.
i used to have the same problem with the 140 that I ran in Manitoba. I solved it with a pair of my girl friends panty hose. I covered over the whole airbreather, acting as 'dust screen'. I never had a problem with the filter in the winter after that. the girlfriend , that was another issue, for another forum
Bah ha ha....read this post and about died laughing,,,,,are any of you high speed grader operators still employed as an operator.....hehhhehhe hi g4
Grandpa Right on. When I saw the topic had been resurrected I thought, OH No here we go again. I stayed away from this topic a couple years ago because I simply could not believe some of what I was reading. I thought I was in the “Twilight Zone”. Anyways thanks for a good laugh this evening. Regards, Randy
Yeah...thanks Grandpa...:Banghead...lol...:drinkup
Actually I quit because none of the old dogs would listen!!! Sorry GRAMPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any operator who is not grading as fast as possible without compromising quality,safety and the integrity of the machine they operate is a plodder. I have invented and sold a patent to a cutting edge that enables a road to be graded as fast as available horsepower and safety will allow. The reason high speed grading is now an option is that this invention eliminates grader bounce, the biggest inhibiting factor in grading speed. Use of this cutting edge will allow a grading productivity increase of a minimum 40% in most grading applications. An increase of 40% is equivalent to the selection of one higher gear. Most graders gears have increments of 40% to each gear. I have graded at 30kph with this cutting edge and can tell you it was scary, material leaving the blade was spread more than 12 feet from the blade, any rocks were thown from the road completely. This exercise was done purely to prove that the cutting edges stopped grader bounce. Testing of this cutting edge proved that vastly increased productive grading speeds (up to 20kph in some conditions) could be achieved. http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2006015498
Can't see that working very well. Maybe for some snow plowing but not any kind of real grading. That's just like a 3" thick cutting edge. I've seen highway dept. doubling up plow blades for wear but I can't see it on a cutting edge.:beatsme
i seem to recall somthing simular to that posted here a few years ago. it was a device that was mounted on the back of the mouldboard and was operated hydraulicly, you could very the amount of pressure you placed on the ground whild blading. ill see what i can find.
ok found it, it was from a post made by Countryboy on 10-11-2007 in the "Weird Grader applications" page 10. here is the link. i think this is simular.
here is a post to the exact post, for those who have changed the "display XX post per page" the other post won't work.
When I first tried this cutting edge I had no idea how it would work, my only intention for making it was that I was extemely frustrated at being restricted by grader bounce at increased speeds. I have trialled it extensively and the improvement in grader stability, control, ease of operation and finish was amazing. Instead of constantly fighting for control of the blade the cutting edge provided the stability required in constuction and finishing applications with substantial productivity increases. With every grader movement or bounce with traditional blades you get a corresponding fault in the graded surface, the only way to eliminate these faults is to slow down to achieve grader stability These edges improves grader stability unbelievably, the cutting edges maintain an extraordinary sharp, chisel like cutting edge in most applications. The surface finish is superior in that the graded surface has a trowled and extremely smooth surface. The only area where I would not use them is hard dry surfaces (or frozen gound)as penetration is not as good as conventional edges. In all other applications, especially construction and most maintenance grading situations they are vastly superior to conventional edges Operating a grader with the new cutting edges is a totally new experience, it is relaxing and you feel like you are are sitting in an armchair instead of being tensed up anticipating the next grader movement or bounce and appropriate blade adjustment. To experience these edges ability I suggest you do as I did, weld a used blade to the back of a new one and experiment. I found that having the blade rolled back fully (John Deere) and then welding the old blade horizontal with the ground worked the best, it allowed optimum rolling on the board and increased loads.
Hey, It could work. You don't know sometimes unless you try. Sometimes things look like they wouldn't work and to your surprise they work great. Good luck with it.:beatsme
Got to thinking about all the different post and so I thought i'd make my own experiment.. Took a 6x6 wood block ( The ground is froze here in Minnesota) and drilled a two inch hole about half way thru the block, then went into the aggregate testing room and got two handfuls of certified road base. Layed one hand full on the block, took a piece of angle iron and drug the aggregate across the hole. This action pretty much fill the hole up to the top, (coulda used a little compaction tho). Next I took the second handful and tossed it across the block simulating 20 mph( my best guess) and you were right, it took 15 seconds to pull it across with the angle iron and less than a second with the toss method.....sure did save a bunch of time.:notworthy
Thanks for the test procedure manuel Grader4me, it was useful in maintaining proper test parameters...ef ef
Even I couldn't dream up a yarn like that...head hurt?? lol
Speed gradin does work if the road is smooth, if you have one bump.......then you have seven..................so slow is better on an uneven surface.......roger......