Sort of a broad question but how is the Deere 4024 engine been for folks? I see them in all sorts of machines but I've never had my hands on one (as far as I remember). Good little engine or stay away?
My recommendation would be to stay away. And that is for both the mechanical and electronic 4024 - 5030 engines.
Thanks. Thats a shame because I see some nice machines with a 4024 lurking under the hood. Now my curiosity is piqued and would love to know more. What are the main things that make the 4024 less desirable?
I've got 4014 motors. No issues to speak of.
Yes, considering the number of those engines that are out on the market the majority have been running without issues. You are one of the lucky ones. We have a customer with 100 Sullivan Paletek air compressors with that engine and we have seen aproximately 50 of them with issues. He had since started unloading them and is buying compressors with a different engine. Mechanical engines: When those engines first came out we thought it was about time Deere built a smaller diesel. Within months of the introduction we were seeing multitudes of injection pump failures. I myself have been into over 100 of them either replacing injection pump springs or the pumps themselves. Some of those spring failures caused the injection pump lifter to lift far enough out of the bore to disengage from the key in the block and spin which then ended up ruining the block. Then we started seeing injector issues with the little washer under the injector crushing and then losing it's sealing ability allowing compression into the crankcase (hard starting/blowby issues). Then we moved on to timing gear cover leaks and water pump leaks. Those items are fixable and can be made to be reliable. Since I have done so many of those repairs I came up with a solution that works better than the Deere solution. Then move on to aging engines. we saw a fair share of (again fixable) fuel return line check valve failures which makes for difficult starting. From that some customers starting using ether. Then we started seeing cam gears that spin on the cam (they are not keyed) and consequently causing the valves to contact the pistons bending the pushrods. Then we were getting a rash of injection pump cold start issues with the cold start thermostat (uses oil pressure to change injection timing). On top of all this there were many running issues due to the pumps not being synchronized correctly causing exhaust flutter, irregular running, cold start misfire, hard starting and what we call a machine gun hunt (which is a very rapidly changing engine rpm) which only happened in the 5030's. We also saw many rack issues with the injection system as well as the rack magnet displacing causing limited rack movement causing hard starting and if you could get it started it would only rev to about 1/2 throttle. Shall I go on? Electronic engines: We thought, finally getting rid of the mechanical injection pump issues, yay! NOT! The issues we have seen with the electronic engines, while fewer, were still a black eye on Deere. Cam gear spin is still an issue. We have one in the shop right now with that issue. Hard starting is the biggest issue with the electronic engine. Causes have been spread out. Fuel return check valves are still an issue. Slow cranking causing erroneous cam sensor readings making hard starting. Customers using 15W-40 oil which can make hard starting (I only recommend 0W-40 synthetic). Injector failures. And the biggie is injection pump failures again. We have had quite a few with this issue and are starting to see more as they age. I just had one 2 weeks ago with hard starting and that one was the injection pumps. They wear prematurely, enough so that air can get into the fuel system through the pump plungers causing what simulates bleed back of the fuel. There is a reason Deere stopped manufacturing this engine. And as far as replacement, you can no longer buy a complete engine, just long blocks. All the rest of the parts are still available however.....for now. So from my end working at a dealer and seeing an endless supply of work from these engines I am a little skewed in my opinion of them.
Thanks so much. I didn't expect such detail but I do appreciate it. We were looking at some compressors as well as other machines with that engine and I think we'll slowly walk back lol
You talk of it like it is a past product, what did they replace it with?
Deere stopped building that engine a few years back. The last Deere product with that engine was the "D" series skid steer loader. When they went to the "E" series they went back to Yanmar engines. For OEM applications (Deere engines in non-Deere products), if you want a smaller engine Deere builds and supplies a 3029 which is basically the 4045 platform but with 3 cylinders.
My only issue with them was the fuel system. Once I upgraded the filter setup, I've never had a pump or injector issue. BTW, running one at 4k rpm, on a Godwin pump, will outrun the cooling capacity.
I like the Yanmar engines. Seen many of them run ridiculous hours and never miss a beat. TPG does not seem to like the cockamamie injection pump on them, but they seem to work OK most of the time.
Me too, however we are starting to see injector issues with the FT4 engines at around 1500-2500 hrs.
Let me rephrase that. I like the Yanmar mechanical engines they still make. 1.6 liter and below get a free pass and are still "Final Tier 4". I do not know of anybody who has a T4 generator, yet. We always tell them to stay with the small mechanicals, or else use propane when running above that power level.
Well I got one in the shop today. Compressor motor. Starts like a dream, revs like a dream, no smoke, no silly sounds....but under load it won't idle. If you set it at 100psi and run it at idle the engine will pick up a slight shimmy (not anything insane) but just enough to shut her off. If you set it at 50psi or something lower it will sit there and idle all day long and it will run full throttle just find as well. Everything on the air side seems to be working fine. It makes me think I have an idle fuel starvation issue (possibly filter or lift pump?) or the idle needs to be raised a hair. I didn't want to start turning idle screws on the pump without reaching out to the experts first - please let me know if making an adjustment on idle screw would be a good place to start. Engine is 2011 vintage I believe and only about 1500 hours.
Electronic or mechanical injection? What brand of compressor? Engine serial number? Start with a fuel pressure check. Spec depends on the first question.
I will check for sure this week - we're having a concrete pad poured so machines are scattered until its poured/flat/cured. From memory its an Atlas Copco and I didn't check to see if mechanical or not but I didn't see much electrical and its only a 2011 so I think mechanical. Would a fuel pressure tester installed in the outlet line on the lift pump give accurate pressure data to us? I think I could probably splice one in pretty close to the lift pump outlet.
Tee into the fuel filter outlet.
Just got back to this machine and found it is mechanically injected. I only see a lift pump to fuel filter to the side of the block fuel fitting - don't see any ECM. The injection pump is inside the timing case? Does that tell you enough to know its mechanically injected? I will tee in post filter tomorrow - what PSI am I looking for at around half load (best I can probably get considering the air end will be spinning but I have it turned down to minimal PSI so as to not kill the engine).
Did you get the engine serial number? If it is mechanical, you want 10 psi minimum. Under the valve cover.
I took a picture of the side of valve cover tag like a dummy. I need to get the esn pic still. So right now I know its an R533065 engine family BJDXL02.4074 engine model 4024TF281A
Get ready to buy some set up and removal tooling if your going to screw with that engine.
Oof - can you elaborate on the tooling and what its used for...its my first.
Mg can give you a list of things you will need. I have to buy a couple of things from Deere when I tore one down. There is even more for set up.
Gosh I hope I don't need to take it down. Dang thing fires up and runs like a top. Just don't load it up to 100psi and shes a winner lol!
I think this is the ESN: PE4024R059265. Running unloaded idle/mid-low RPM the fuel pressure gauge bounces between 8-10PSI. Gauge maxes at 10 and once you rev up it has no problem holding 10+psi. If the lift pump is making proper pressure is there any reason I can't slowly load the engine and slowly raise the throttle until it doesn't want to die while holding 100psi?
After shutdown, does it hold 4 psi for 10 minutes? My next question would be, is the air system setup correctly? Does this unit have an air button to turn on the air? What is the air pressure on the gauge when the air is on with the air outlet valve closed?
It held 4-5 PSI after shutdown for a while. The air end all checks out to me. This machine starts at goes up to full psi in 1 swoop. If I set the gauge at 50psi it will sit there and run happy. If I turn it up to 100psi it will slowly shiver and shut the motor off. I really think it just needs a hint more throttle thus just enough fuel to keep the engine happy when its loaded up with pressure. Any thoughts on turning up the throttle?
Sorry, I am a little confused. Most compressors I have worked on will idle (1800 rpm) at approximately 120-150 psi when the ball valve is closed. Then they are fully loaded with the ball valve opened on the air to approximately 100 psi (engine speed goes up to 2500-2600 rpm). So if your compressor is adjusted properly, and idles at 120 psi with the ball valve on the outlet closed, it stalls? Or it only stalls when you open the ball valve to produce air? Post a picture of your instrument panel.
Sorry I didn't explain that one well. The only time we have an issue is with ball valves closed. If you turn it down to say 50psi and ball valves closed no issue. If you turn it up to 120psi with ball valves closed it will shut down the engine shortly. If you open the ball valves it will rev up and run all you want without issue.
What's the rpm the engine is idling at?
I don't have anything to measure the RPM but I would be interested in purchasing the equipment to do that. Do you have any suggested tach's? Do you normally do alternator hookup?
For air compressors, about the only thing that works is a photo tach. On the IR's, there is a whole in the air end mounting plate and IR so kindly has put a piece of reflective tape on the flywheel that my photo tach can pick up. Maybe Atlas has the same??
Photo tach is a good idea - I will take a look at the flywheel. Its a real dig to get into this machine its one of those where the hood is the entire roof and it only opens up enough to let you squeeze your head in. Gonna remove the hood and set it aside so theres more access. Assuming running RPM is correct what else would cause the engine to shut off when its under load? It runs so well, smooth, and without any smoke/noise that you'd be shocked to hear it does this.
Maybe take a video of it shutting down and posting it. Also post some pictures of the unit from both sides and the instrument panel as well.
I am going to get a video this week. One silly thing I didn't try is removing the air filter just to make sure its not restricted through the intake. If this engine had running issues you'd say that must be the reason it shuts off but it cranks over and fires up like a new engine.
Sounds like a fuel issue if you send me the serial code (last 3) I could get you the manual for it
Sorry to revive an old thread, but @heymccall what filter setup did you switch to on your 2014 and 4024? I've got a 4024 in a sullair air compressor and want to keep the fuel as clean as possible.
I have a question regarding this particular motor, and would appreciate the help. Classic head gasket reared its ugly head and now cannot get it to start. It will turn over and acts like it wants to start, but just missing that last little bit. It is also showing a low oil pressure light code. There is fuel in both filters, oil is fresh and topped off, radiator has been drained and fresh coolant. Torque values are correct, primary concern is that it is out of time some how and not sure if there is a way to check that without tearing down again. Any help is greatly appreciated. Ironically it is a Sullair air compressor.
@Dhuff , Did you collapse the cam followers before installing the push rods and rocker arms ?
Yes, with that little I-Bar shape tool. That took a while to make sure each of them were empty. The injectors got moved around, I was did label them to maintain order, but think that they are out of alignment causing timing to be off. Which is the part I am slightly confused by.
If you didn’t loosen any of the injector pump clamps ,the fuel timing should not have changed enough to create a no start. Was the engine a relatively good runner before the head gasket change ? Mechanical fuel injection pumps or electronic ? Engine serial number ?
Pulled the injectors and connecting lines to put new o-rings on injectors and new washers and carbon rings on. Yes, it was a strong running engine before the head gasket work.
Sorry, missed the rest of the info requested. Mechanical fuel pump S/N - PE4024T138709 (4024TF270)
Fuel transfer pump sucking air at the water separator filter ? You could splice in a clear fuel line before the block to check for bubbles. Any chance the Low oil pressure light code is turning off power to the solenoid on the front cover ?
Sometimes those engines can be tough to get the air out of the injection system when they have been opened up. Try pinching off the return line and see if it starts. If it starts shut it off immediately so it does not run with the line pinched. Release the pinch and see if it now starts and runs.
I have been trying the different suggestions and will try the pinching off the return today. But, I have a question regarding the followers. There are the two that when you compress oil comes out of them, but I just saw a breakdown of the injector (Electrical) sorry think I originally said mechanical. There is a follower below the injector did that one need to be compressed as well? I ask because when I originally took injectors out I left those in and did not remove to compress. Also, the slide pin on the side of the injector is that the "Position the pump so that the electrical connector is oriented to the RH rear of the cylinder."? I ask because the images I have are Rorschach tests at best. I appreciate all the help; industrial engines are just different enough from light and medium duty to trip me up sometimes.
The follower on the injection system is under the "unit pumps", not the injectors. You removed the injectors and the "unit pumps"? The follower under the unit pumps does not need to be compressed. what wires? Your serial number indicates a mechanical injection system. The only wires under the rocker arm cover on that engine should be the glow plug wires.
IIRC an electric lift pump pushing through the mechanical pump should result in fuel flowing through all the galleries and then coming out the return in the back of the head. Eventually it should start right up after that.
Thank you I thought I was losing my mind everyone here and locally are trying to tell me that it is electrical and keep sending me instructions for an electric pump. No, I never adjusted the pump and put the engine at top dead center on cylinder 1 before starting headgasket work.
I was just saying to temporarily install an electric pump to totally prime the head galleries, then take it out and try and start the engine normally. I changed a unit pump on one of these last year and I am pretty sure that is what I did but I don't remember exactly. There are a lot of passages to pump up and the little mechanical pump is not real good for that.
Hey guys im working on a 4024hf285 and i am 99 percent sure i have a unit pump issue (hard start no power under load. did fuel t and lift pump) just wondering any way to narrow down if it one or all?
Welcome to HEF walker ! Please start your own thread please. Provide the complete engine serial number and a thorough description of the symptoms and a thorough description of what you have done so far. Is this issue that just popped up, or has been getting steadily worse.