Hey guys I'm new to the forum, wish I had found it sooner. I've done a fair amount of trench work and pipe laying but never bid any jobs by the foot. There's small pipe laying job (8 & 12") I'm going to bid but need to get an idea on how far a cat 320 with a 30" bucket can dig in an 8 hr day. I'll also be using a Kobelco ED150 with a 36" bucket. This of course assume no rock, no utilities to cross, just fairly easy digging in midwestern soil. Thanks!
more info such as what kind of labor force you will have? how deep? using a pipe laser? can you use native backfill? how many structures will you have to set, etc. laying straight sewer pipe 8-10' deep with one pipe layer, a guy on a 160 digging (draging an 8x16 trenchbox) and a guy on a backhoe backfilling and compacting we do ~150 feet a day give or take
Sorry I should have said it's water main, 42" deep. Only thing I was concerned with was knowing about how many feet the machine could manage. I may just take them out and dig for a half hour to get a rough estimate.
I worked with a crew a few years ago that laid nearly 800' in one day of 12" ductile iron water main.They had one crossing that I can remember but it was ideal digging in sand with a 325 Cat,quick change buckets because you had to overdig in the sand to avoid using a trench box.The only obstructions were the utility poles and wires along side the road which was crossing farmland with tobacco fields on both sides of the road.The pavement was sawcut and they had a dumptruck and Cat 950 loader to help move pipe and with the backfilling and they also used a remote control trench compactor. I was backfilling with an air conditioned John Deere 450H which does not leave you prepared to get out and run roller/compactor in the hot summer sun either.:bouncegri This was probably a 10 or 11 hour day to be fair but that is the most pipe I ever saw go in the ground in one day and the conditions were very favorable to say the least. To be fair the company I worked for actually owned the property for generations so they knew where everything was underground as well. We routinely did 600' a day,always with the gate valves and hydrant T's etc. Water main is fun until it doesn't pass the pressure test.:thumbsup Ron G
This is very hard to just give a number on what it can do in my opinon as there is many factors to take into consideration like : are you digging in sugar sand, Clay, is there large rock in the way? Utilities can really slow you down when you have to hand dig for an hour to find some electric and gas lines, and than dig ever so careful around them after you locate them. Is the work done in the middle of a street where you have to worry about traffic control and safety, if so your work speed will move to a crawl. Also if your working on the street you have to contend with all the dirt that leaves the hole and where its going. Is the operator skilled? Plenty of different factors involved in your question with no easy answer with the info given. Just take all these points in mind and think real hard, you should be able to come up with a number yourself. BTW when I was laying 42†storm drain in a open field in 8’ sections, tar jointed, it was a great day to get in 12 – 15 pieces of pipe and a structure, and backfill and compact.
Sounds like fun, i love laying waterline, but your right teasting can make a guy nervous. Little off topic but what do you have to test at in your neck of the woods. Here we have to pump it to 225PSI and it has to hold for 2 hours, you are allowed to drop 5psi in the 2 hours. A city inspector comes out and sits there the whole time.
this crew needed a minimum of 7 miles a day, always tried to get 10 http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i182/dayexco/work pics/?action=view¤t=PlowTrain.jpg
At 3.5' deep, I'd be surprised if you didn't get a MINIMUM of 800' a day assuming you're in dirt and there are no conflicts/impediments with existing utilities or surface encumbrances. The biggest grey area is the time allotment you allow yourself for a worst case testing/tie-in process.
7 miles a day! We're lucky if DOT can paint the yellow stripe down the center of the road 7 miles in a day around here, say nothing of lay pipe!
Water line in this area has to be 5' (60") to be below the threat of frost. I have forgotten the numbers now for the test PSI,it seems like 200 lbs for conventional water lines but if it is a fire line for a sprinkler system it was a lot more,maybe even double that and it had to hold over night it seems.Funny how that stuff slips away when you aren't using it any more.:Banghead Ron G
here waterlines are spec'd at 7' of cover. those 4 d-9's pulling that plow in that picture kept everybody busy
We have it easy here, waterline only needs 30" of cover, mild winters here.
Its the same with us you only need to be 36 inches into the ground but it can be a tough 36 inches. You dig as much as you can then phone the blasting contractor and call it a day. If its a tough go getting 100 feet in a 8 hour day your doing good :bouncegri
We would average at least 800' a day on the crew I was on in Neb. doing new construction and we where damn good team. 5' of cover, no utilities to cross, hydrant every 300' IIRC, 2 hoes one dig one backfill, a loader to shuttle pipe and rock, a track loader backfill, 2 pipe layers, and a backhoe that the backfiller would run to dig for the hydrants if it was a short run.
Thanks a lot for the responses guys, it's a big help. Since there are utilities to cross, some definite rock probably floaters, and some shallow rocky creek beds with trees to clear a 500' average is probably what I'm looking at. There are also hydrants, valves and Ts but those installs are priced separate.
It also depends if you need to pass a compaction test. Another thing that seems to slow us down is jobsite congestion. If there are several trades on a job, each with a delivery that has to be planned for, then that will KILL a day or two. In my experience, we seem to always be limited in footage by the backfill & compaction rather than how fast we can dig. Getting it out is usually the fast part.
we run 200 sized hoes installing water main, one digging, one compacting, loader operator, 2 pipelayers....if everything is "in place"....hydrants, valves, tees, etc....we'll ave. 500' a day out in a new development
I got to work with a professional pipe crew man they were fast they could bang together the 8 and 10 inch diameter blue brute quick and it was a perfect job. It sure helps when you have a crew that knows what they are doing because allot of pipe can be layed in a day.
The record for 8' deep 15" waterline at the company i work for is a mile in a day. That's with two pipelayers in the hole, I think a brand new 345B digging... this was a several years ago now, the record still stands. the pipe wasn't blue brute though it was nice light stuff easy to butt by hand, blue brute is a bitch to butt by hand even 12" stuff, i get the hoe to do it. My record this summer for the bigass 1500 concrete pipe I was helping put in (that's like 60" inside diameter) I think was over 20 pipe a day. thats' with a 345B series 2 digging, we totally coulda used a 365. we were definitely limited by our lead hoe, when the digging got easy a 963C and 330C struggled keeping up backfilling. I forget how deep we were at times but we needed to stack cages. Musta been 20 feet. The retardedly massive manholes on that job were the killer, tried to pick one of them up with two 345Bs, barely could budge the son of a bitch and that was just a 2400. we also had a few 2700 manholes on that job, we used a 345 and a big rubber tired crane. :spaz stupid design, totally overkill coulda used online manholes and saved a ton of money but that's the engineers problem not the contractors. This was at the winnipeg international airport expansion project.
On the subject of butting it together, is it worth having a smaller excavator on the 12" pipe crew to lift the pipe into the ditch and butt it together? My thinking was it would let the digging hoe go on about digging and not lifting and pushing pipe together. The 8" we thought could be put together on the surface and rolled into the ditch. Someone we know has a skid steer attachment that is supposed to roll it on over into the ditch.
Sounds like a big job. Maybe we could watch the language a little. :wink2
sorry man, i'll keep the jobsite langauge on the jobsite, unfortunately it seems like you can't edit posts on this forum?
There's a time limit for editing your own posts. Moderators can edit your posts at any time. The software will automatically censor out the really naughty words, and if they're disguised somehow, the moderators will edit them out, and remind you that it's against the rules. The less naughty words, are strongly discouraged. Like the Forum Rules say, try to use the same sort of language you'd use if speaking to a customer. I have to add, for everybody--you immediately recognized "jobsite language" when reminded of it, because there's no doubt that it is part of everyday conversation out on the site. (Although, moreso for some people than for others, and I'm as guilty as anybody else.:cussing ) We appreciate the fact that everybody seems to be able to leave it out of the posts here, without being reminded very often. Thank you, all. :notworthy Back to the topic....
back on subject... IMHO, it is easiest on the top man and pipelayers most of the time if the lead hoe is the one lowering the pipe and butting it together. The backfill hoe sometimes has a hard time getting close enough to the cage, sinks the tracks into the soft fresh backfill... not to mention the backfilling operators are usually much more inexperienced than the lead hoe operator... It slows down production substantially to have the lead hoe stop digging to lower and butt pipe but it really makes the job easier and safer a lot of the time (this is all depending on ground conditions, height and width of trench box used, depth of cut, size of backfill hoe, specification of backfill, etc...) some jobs you can have the backfill hoe lower the pipe, have the lead hoe butt it, or do both with the backfill hoe pretty easily. On some jobs you have to backfill in stages and test compaction in stages and then you won't even have the reach to lower the pipe or butt it with the backfill hoe.
Thanks for the input on that I think we'll probably stick to one hoe like you said.
:naughty :naughty :naughty :naughty :lmao
In my experience, it works best to set the pipe with the lead hoe. If you have a good pipelayer, he will have several pipe chokered up and ready ahead of the hoe. It takes about 30 seconds to hook the pipe, set it into the trench, and push it home, then unhook and continue digging for the next set. I have set up to 1800 ft of 16" that way digging 6'+ deep having no obstructions with only one pipelayer, and digging for 7 hrs then backfilling the rest of the day. If it is rigged properly, you push the pipe home with the choker you set it with, so it saves a step. Pipelayer measures out for center of pipe in advance to get the balance right on the money each time.
Thats how we did it
My old man was absolutely hell bent on getting the bells all facing the proper direction as you were stringing them. Get a few of them facing the wrong way and you'd never hear the end of it. Also, in my experience, the label painted on a length of ductile iron pipe is always in the same place. If the center of the label isn't the center of the pipe, there's at least some spot that is--you don't need to measure each one. Another neat trick we used for stringing pipe with a backhoe was to use two short chains--about 2-3 feet long, with slip hooks on both ends. Put one chain around the one end of pipe, and hook it to the side of the loader bucket, and use the other chain at the back end, hooked onto the stabilizer pad. Raise the bucket and stabilizer and off you go. (Don't raise the stabilizer all the way, so the pipe stays clear of the tires and fender.) That way, you can stay parallel with the work area, and just run back and forth...
I found that with 8" ductile iron i can just pull up beside the pipe, grab the pipe with the hoe and pinch it between the bucket and stick and swing the boom to whatever side. The bucket/stabilizer trick sounds pretty slick though would be good for stringing out storm pipe cause it can be a pain by yourself sometimes.