I've been keeping an eye on machinery trader, looking at excavators in the 13 ton range. Mostly cat, Deere, or Hitachis. Primarily because dealers are both within 20 minutes of me. But anyways, I've noticed alot of machines in the 8-12k hr range. Is it me or do you guys think that these machines would be money pits? I would be using it primarily around my farm, and doing the occasional odd jobs for friends. I would guess it would get a couple hundred hours a year. I would never buy a dozer with these type of hours, but it seems pretty common for excavators. So, whats your guys hour limits on a machine? Thanks, CJ
Hrs on excavators... size has some factor in this discussion, the larger production machine stack the hrs on in some cases, but a mini over 5k hrs is a hard find. realistically which would you rather have, a machine that has 5k hours digging thru soft topsoil in yards or a machine that has 5k hrs of ripping up shale in a pit somewhere? Personally It depends on two factors. 1) Overall machine condition, condition is much more relevant than any hour meter. Someone who doesnt bend every pannel on the machine is more likely to also have changed oils and done proper maintence rather than a slather butt that slowly destroyed it. 2) Ammount of acceptable downtime / mechanical skill. If your workin by yourself on farm projects with no deadline, and dont mind tinkering a little then a high hour machine is for you. If your doing projects with early completment bonuses, and the excavator is the kingpin, you might want to have a new or nearly new hanging around. Sometimes the customer dictates that the equipment can be no older than 5 yrs, to me that is stupid on the customers end, cause the project will not be cheap if said contractor has to go buy all new stuff. Better to set performance goals and reward accordingly, because there isnt alot of difference at the end of a day btw 4 year old excavators and 8 year old one. Personaly I have two crawlers, both deeres, loader and dozer w/ 7,500 & 8,300 hrs respectively. They take a little work now and then, but they are both in nice shape and make me money when I need them. I use the dozer a fair ammount and will be needing a write-off soon so the 550g dozer may go, but that little direct drive sucker can really punch some dirt...
Thank you very much for the reply. I'm guessing, what I would check on a machine is the standard stuff. Undercarriage is reasonable, machine tracks straight forward, and backwords. All pins/bushing are within reason, the interior has been taken care of somewhat...anything not so obvious?
hitachi ex120-5 or deere equiv will do atleast 25000 hours with repairs like chains and sprockets and idlers , maybe a starter , batteries or altenator, this i would class as running repairs, and not major breakdown. ex120-5 is money well spent with 8-12k hours on it if its in good condition in general
Totally depends on how well it has been maintained i would say bye the time your around the 20,000 hour mark it would be well worth doing a bottom end rod and main bearing roll for cheap insurance. If your buying from a smaller private company your more likely to get a better maintained machine that has seen a lot less operators on it then if you were buying an ex rental unit or a larger fleet owned unit get all the history you can before you lay out your money.
Not really a trackhoe authority, but it has been my observation that after 8-10 K hours accumulate on an excavator, and you begin to understand why folks buy CAT or trade out early in the life cycle. I could be wrong, that's just my impression. Having said that, I wonder how Hitachi holds up in the long run. The one I ran once was the smoothest operating thing on tracks, but it was brand new at the time. I've seen a couple of older units that looked like they were on meth too long. Kobelco? Very popular around SWLA. Comments?
Nearly 8000hrs on my EX270 with no major repairs other then preventative maintenance and everything still works on it just fine. In my opinion the Hitachi is one hell of a machine for the price you pay its going to be priced lower then a Cat,Komatsu,Volvo. And a Deere is pretty much the same machine as the Hitachi parts availability for the Hitachi is great as well their is tons of them still roaming around in farm yards all over north america LOL...
My CAT 330l has better than 21.000hrs now and still going strong. I would not be the least bit concerned about a 8 to 10k hr machine that has been well maintained. As for the longevity of all the other brands I could not say,my machine before this was a 792 JD that I kept untill about 25k hrs. Good luck in your search.
We plan the life of our excavators at 30,000 hours with 2 minor & 1 major rebuild during that time. So the first minor would be 7500 hours, the major at 15,000 & a 2nd minor at 22,500. With that in mind we only look at manufacturers that have the level of durability in things like frame, carbody, boom, etc, to permit this level of rebuilding. There are a lot of makes on the market that will cost big $ in structural parts to get them to the target hours, hence we consider "ease of rebuildability" as one of our major purchase criteria for a new machine.
Nobody mentioning Link Belt here. The small ones were good, and the big ones were terrible once the new wore off. IMHO, albeit limited. Jones Bros. of Nashville bought them by the dozen.
Lots of good info here! I was actually thinking about a ex120-5, or 311 cat. Its good to hear the the -5 are good machines too, because they seem pretty common around here. Nige, what machines do you guys run typically?
And here the guys I know say Cats are garbage after 10k hours. I've run some rental Hitachi 270's that had seen 12-15k heavy hours and although were well used were still very functional and did exactly what they needed to do with little to no breakdowns
I swear by Hitachi
I look after a PC200-8 and PC300-8 they have both just over 8000hrs, they have been used in wet tropics, run in slush gravel, clay 90% of the time, most of the operators have no idea about warm up , down or how to look after a machine, or operate it for that matter. They are dented scratched, the underplates get ripped off, aircons dont work, bucket pins are flogged, teeth missing and the holders are worn from not having teeth on, when I started they had gone up to 1000hrs with no oil changes, fuel filters were washed out and replaced, you get my drift, But apart from an electrical problem on the 300 the things still run well, dont use oil and the really the only reason they were breaking down often was lack of maintenance items, so if a machine has 8 to 10 th hrs and has been half looked after I would think it should do quite well.
so do i, dont buy a cat over rated heaps of ****e, your buying a name not quality
Good info. Need names, however.
Names I would seriously look at - Cat, Komatsu, Hitachi. Names I would consider - Volvo, Deere, Hyundai, Liebherr. This is based on personal experience. A lot of running any machine is based around the support (parts, service, technical information) that you can get for it where you actually are located in the world. Many a good manufacturer has had a bad dealer somewhere and for that reason I would walk away from that brand even though I knew it to be basically good.
Hey Nige, so what do you guys do during the minor, and major rebuilds? Thanks for the words of wisdom.
For what your doing 10,000 plus hours would probably be fine. If you were using it out in the middle of a street with an entire crew that would be another story if it break everybody will be waiting on you. Go with Hitachi 120 they are fine machines with plenty of used parts. I took a cat 312 up to 10,000 hours and had to rebuild the engine. It hurt, cat had all the parts tied up no aftermarket. I paid dearly for original parts. Oh an if you want a 313, most were grey market. When you try to get parts you will have to listen to the cat guy cry about how that machine was never intended to be here and he doesn't know what to do,Blah blah. Hitachi is good stuff and the Isuzu engine is great.
12,000 hours is the most I have ever run my fleet of hitachis. No matter what size.
Tomorrow I'm going to look at a ex120-3. (It doesn't state its a -3, but is listed as a 1995, so I'm guessing its a -3.) Private party owns it. It has about 4,500hrs and is asking 25,900. Has a couple buckets, thumb, looks to be in good condition. Any advice on the machine? I was wondering, can I take the VIN number to Deere, or will only Hitachi work?
Looked at the -3 machine, and there was no oil on the dipstick, and the hydrolic oil was cloudy, ontop of that it was a grey market. I quickly decided to pass. Then I went and looked at a -5 machine, that had 11.5k hours on it. Very, very clean. The place that was selling it said it was on a airport job, where it would be started up first thing in the morning, then finally shut off on the night shift. Must of been payed by the hr on the machine or something...very tight machine though, and undercarriage was barely used. But they wanted 36k delivered to my place. Little to steep for me at this moment. So, I'll keep looking.
This is why to some degree hours on the clock can be misleading. I have seen Excavators advertised with 2000hrs and have just had an engine rebuild. ???? If you can get hold of the manufacture wear limits for the excavator you are thinking of purchasing, it will tell most of the story. Boom lift, swing, and arm stroke times will tell you if the hydraulics are up to speed. There should be slew play limits etc. so you can see what life is left in the wearing parts that are expensive. One thing I always look for is if everything is original. Someone who is prepared to replace an item with a "will fit" to keep working in most cases is not too worried about keeping the machine up to spec. Sloppy hydraulic hoses, (not remounted properly etc) and sloppy wiring is also an indicator that there may be a "throw her back together and keep working" attitude. If what the dealer says about the -5 machine with 11.5k on it is true, it may be a real good buy whereas the other machine probably had the hour meter replaced 4500 hrs ago, (or it stopped working then)
At ours customers usually target used machines with 6-9t.h., CATs go up to 12t.h., from Europe and most of them then squeeze every possible operation hour out of machine till it dies like hunted animal. No big investments in used stuff as a habit(
Good day pp13 bnos Comments to your qestion small 360 machines are designed for a specific life time, long enough to avoid warranty claims but short enough not to kill future buisness. Engine life time reduce with higher emmision demands, tracks rarely last much more than 4k, some parts last much longer buts its a gamble. Look carefully before you part with bucks, you can down load a free inspection at excatech.com hope it helps. KR
I called my local Hitachi dealer about a 120ex-5, with the model and serial number. What I found out was kinda weird. The machine started out with a 1e4 number, and it didn't come up in his books. He said the excavator should start out with a 1e8, but since the cab was in both English and Japanese, that he didn't think it was a grey market and he could get parts for it. So, now I'm confused...is it, or is it not a grey market?? Any help would be awesome...
Anyone?
sounds like you know your machines. can you tell me anything about a koehring bantam s-155? Or where I could go to find out more ? Thanks
What I've been doing is keeping a sharp eye on craigslist, and the equipment trader, my little salesmen (Not to much traffic, and web page is crappy.) and rock and dirt. If I find a machine that catches my eye, first thing I do is check out the ritchie specs web page, followed by seeing where the nearest dealer is to me, reading as much as i can through the HEF forum, and google searching the machine in question. Then if I'm serious about the machine, I'll call the dealer with the VIN number number and see if any red flags come up. The ex120 I was looking up was a grey market, but the local Pape guys said they could get parts for it. They where asking 35.5k for the machine, and I offered 33k but they wouldn't even email or call back. I'd post a link to the machine, but I don't know if its going to get me in trouble or not.
I've owned a hitachi grey market machine now for at least 15 years, I wouldn't be too shook up over it, since they are all made overseas anyhow, some shy away from them, others not, mine is a -3 I think, I've got to go look again to make sure, but I love it, its now around the 8k hour mark, I bought it with about 3k hours. The thing you need to keep in mind is how the machine was used, mine only runs when its digging, a buddy of mine bought a komatsu with over 18k hours on it and it looked and ran like new, found out later it idled all day long and ran only a few minutes each day while on a major job that lasted for years, it was in the contract it needed to run the entire time it was there during the work day weather it was used or not. I'm a firm believer in hitachi, not too fond of the deere engines in the same machine, my engine starts and runs cheap, with the spell checker I can't seem to type out the name of it, i-s-u-s-u they are great in all aspects. Check out ironplanet, they have inspection reports and also past history sales to compare to for values of sold machines.
I had a cat that was a 1994 cat320L I bought new when I final traded it in it had close to 30,000 hours on it also traded a 1997 cat 330BL with 21,086 hours on it traded them last year on 2 new 2011 s
Well, this is my new toy. Came with a muck bucket, Hendrix and a digging bucket. Need to fix the AC, heater, light on the boom, radio, and a give it a good cleaning. I spent a little more than my original budget, but I'm glad I that I did.
Congradulations! I hope she gives you yrs of good service!
A PNW hoe without a link thumb? Guess i can't say they all have them anymore. Looks like a solid machine.