First off just want to say what a great resource this forum is; many thanks to so many people willing to share their knowledge and experience. I am looking to buy a used excavator and am wondering if it makes sense to buy one without a thumb if it's the machine I want and have it added on later? My instincts tell me No! It always cost much more to have the work done than to buy the machine set up the way you want. But there is a 215 LC coming up for auction and from what I've read here that is a desirable machine for my use. I have a hillside farm/ranch operation with lots of large rock and brush to clear, tanks to set, just general ranch work. i already have a D4E and a worn out TD25 but want something to pick things up with. Any thoughts or opinions appreciated.
What kind of thumb are you looking for. Manual or hydraulic?
Its my opinion, a hydraulic thumb is mandatory on a farm machine. Also, a quick release might be something you look into too. But going back to the thumb...the only way I wouldn't get one, was if I was doing just production. If the machine doesn't have a spool for it, from what I've read it can get quite expensive.
It's going to be expensive to add a hydraulic thumb, even more if it doesn't have a valve. Another option would be a manual thumb. I have a manual thumb on my 321 that serves it's purpose for what we do, however less than 10% of the machines working time is spent using the thumb. It's a personal choice you'll have to make for what you want the machine to do. If you will be using a thumb constantly then a hydraulic one will obviously work better. If the 215 is a good machine at a good price buy it and put a manual thumb on it. Later on if you find out you need a hydraulic thumb either sell the 215 or look into adding one.
An Amulet style thumb is another option to look into. I've seen figures of $20-30K for a dealer to add a thumb, IIRC.
Similar story with my excavator CM . Don't use thumb that often but needed on certain jobs . Doesn't take that long to fold it down & add turnbuckle link . Fabricated it around 1996 . I think my cost back then was around $350.00 , it's still in one piece Don't know what a factory built weld on manual thumb kit would cost today , 3 to 4 thousand ? HeavyEquipmentForums
Thanks for all the replies everyone. I would like a hydraulic thumb, never really considered a manual but maybe I should? All I know is the older I get the less I want to be climbing on and off a machine. No pictures yet of the 215, auction is not for a couple weeks. How do I verify if there is an extra valve on the machine for auxiliary hydraulics, will there be an extra stack on the valve body? It sounds like adding a hydraulic unit after the fact will be more than I want to spend; only want to pay $20-25k for the whole machine, delivered. I've rented a mini with a thumb a few time from the rental yard and I just can't see not having a hydraulic one, but then again have never used a manual. At the same auction there is a 1998 Hyundai 130LC 3 Robex with q/c, a hydraulic thumb as well as auxiliary plumbing, with only 4700 hours. This may be in my price range but I'm leery of electronics, and I doubt it will be as stout of a machine. I have lots of rock on my place, some of them will stop my TD25 for an hour or so, so I want something that will last. Having said that, I don't want to have a machine that is not going to fit in the orchard. Any thought on all this blather? Thanks again you guys, I really appreciate it. This is a pretty big purchase for me and I would really like to get it right the first time.
Yair . . . Thumbs are almost unheard of here but I did see one on a small machine that was operated by a 12v. power pack independent of the main hydraulics. The owner had built it himself using second hand components, reckoned it worked fine and only cost a few hundred bucks. Cheers.
My boss wont own a excavator that don't have a thumb we have put serveral on but I don't deal with the money side of it but was thinking was close to $5,000 for thumb and close to that for line kit but not sure on that this would be a progressive link thumb to
I would doubt that the 215 has a extra circuit for auxiliaries, if you are set on getting the 215 you'll probably wind up with a manual thumb, a good one will run you around $5k or so by time its installed. Be sure you check the 215 over real good, they were known to have problems with the swing gears, we have replaced them on ours once. Digging wise I think you would end up being about the same speed between the 215 and the 130 Hyandai if your in easy going topsoil or clay, pulling rocks would be a bit easy with the 215 just because its a heavier machine. What some of the guys do around here is instead of running a thumb they use a 3 and 2 grapple that pins on the quick change and then a bracket on the stick. What you could probably do if you wanted a hydraulic thumb but didn't have a spool is plumb in a electronic diverter valve like for a quick coupler off the bucket lines, that way you could fold the thumb up and down, wouldn't be able to move it and the bucket at the same time, but it would give you more flexibility over a manual thumb? just a idea
Check with some of the companies that part out excavators, you can often buy used components and save yourself some money. After having run an excavator with a hydraulic thumb most people will never by satisfied with anything else.
I've had a machine with a manual, one with a hydraulic thumb and my newest machine has no thumb. The hydraulic thumb spent most of the time in the corner of the shop. I mostly do pipeline work and don't like the extra weight swinging out there. Having said that, I think a thumb make handling brush and trees a lot safer and easier. A manual thumb works fine, but it's not ideal. It's a little more effort because you have to reposition the machine to pick up small objects. The biggest drawback is that you can't quickly move it out of the way if you need to do 10 or 20 minutes of digging or whatever.
Here is an interesting idea for a manual thumb https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NN_93JUaC4
Not sure what happened, but I thought I posted basically this ^^ yesterday. Only thing that has to be accounted for is pressure relief in the thumb cylinder. $6500 will get you a very capable hydraulic thumb if you have aux hydraulics. That's what it cost me for the thumb and materials, it took me and another guy about 2 days to build and install.
Thread on a homemade setup for a backhoe not long ago here: HeavyEquipmentForums I posted some pics and info of what I made for my old hoe in there. The prices quoted amaze me, especially for a mechanical thumb. It's very simple item, nothing complex or difficult about it. Hydraulics are a bit more true, but even then the only real difficult part is tying into the machine system if it doesn't already have a remote. Granted my small old machine is vastly different from a large excavator, but it's still just some chunks of steel with little if any complex machining, design, etc.
Nice work on the thumb jaluhn ! I share the same view on the mechanical model . It's not something that would be a deal breaker when looking at an excavator . Would be more concerned with swing bearing , undercarriage , & overall condition of machine verses asking price .
Wow, lots of good info here. Can anyone tell me what to check for on the swing bearing? Is there a method to determine how worn it is? I feel fairly competent evaluating undercarriage but don't really know much about excavators. Of course I realize an older machine will have some play here and there, but I don't want something that's completely worn out. Since I'm looking at auction machines I'm a little more limited inspection wise than a private party unit. Trying to learn what I can about slew systems and brakes and whatnot, unfortunately I'm not a mechanic so some of what I'm reading on other threads here are a little over my head. Enjoyed reading jaluhn's thread on his set-up. Thanks again guys. Thanks again guys
Have someone with you that can operate the machine. Start with the hoe fully outstretched with the bucket about a foot off the ground. While they slowly lower the bucket to the ground and apply down pressure, you watch from in between the tracks the swing bearing where the bottom half meets the top. As they apply down pressure, if you see more than an eighth-inch or so of up/down movement, the bearing has substantial wear. Will it last another couple thousand hours? Probably. If the price was right, it might be worth it. We had a Rotec put in a 1080B about 15 yrs ago. It was a $17,000 bill. The bearing alone was $9000. Hope this helps.
Personally not a huge fan of the 2 series Cats. A lot of people are, but in my experience they aren't powerful machines. Never run a 215 though so can't say about that specific model. If I were you I would definitely go with the hydraulic thumb, had both and see no reason to buy a manual unless I already had the machine and it wasn't plumbed. Hydraulic thumbs are great for rock work as you can get them out of your way when you are digging around the rock. You should also look at craigslist and machinery trader for machines around you. The L/B series cats are good, any Link Belt, any Deere/Hitachi. All good machines, the Hyundai's are decent, never had bad luck with them. Something between 14-18ton would be good for what you want to do.
Thanks Shimmy1, that certainly does help. I'll probably only be putting 100-200 hours a year on the machine so I can live with some wear, but I've been trying to farm with worn out junk for so long I want to find something that's still solid. I looked at a Link-Belt 2800 in Oregon last month that I liked but felt it might be bigger than I need. It did have a nice forestry type guarding on the cab, which I would probably want to install/fabricate on whatever I end up with. I may go look at it again if nothing comes from the auction. I think it was Movindirt that mentioned having to replace the swing gear on his 215; this is different from the swing bearing, correct? Is it easy to inspect these? I think I read they have a cover with only four bolts and run in grease, is this something I could do with an adjustable wrench at the auction yard?
I'm not familiar with movindirt's story, but if someone tells me they had to replace the swing gear, the first thing I think of is the pinion gear under the swing drive. Reason I say this is I believe most machines have the swing bearing and ring gear as one unit, so if they were replacing the whole gear they would most likely just say "swing bearing" or rotec. You could very well pull the inspection cover on any machine you're looking at, might give you some insight. If the grease is hard and dry or whitish colored then it probably hasn't been maintained the best. You would also be able to see/feel the teeth on the main gear. Real truth of the matter is any used machine could be a goldmine or a money pit. You have a 50/50 shot, and hopefully, with a good inspection, the odds can be in your favor. :my2c
Do yo have your set-up and equipment posted somewhere. I'd be very interested in seeing it. Cheers Van
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Bottom-line up front: you should probably allow at least USD4000. I'm in Australia so costs will probably be quite different for you; however, I've just been through the process of adding a hydraulic thumb onto an EX200-2 (Hitachi 20T machine). So here is my experience... I imported mine from China (happy to send you the details of the firm that I used - they were quite good!). I welded it on myself, first welding job ever. I probably was excessive with my prep and the number of beads I ran but it seems to be holding well! I'm picking up 4T rocks with no problems at all (I'm cutting in / clearing a road on our property which is a steep slope (1:4). My excavator has hammer piping, and I've just connected up to to move the thumb - it moves quickly but is very controllable. My only suggestion if you follow this path - pay attention to the hydraulic fittings! There are so many different sorts and it is just like travelling to a foreign country without AC-power adapters - you can cut the hose and replace the fittings (if there is length), but they are not cheap! Costs were: - Hydraulic Thumb HH2458, US$2250 - Shipping (China to Australia) US$110 - Customs Duties/Fees AUD850!! (so around USD700!) - 250Amp welder AUD 250 - Welding course, AUD400 - Consumables (paint, grinding wheels, degreaser, gasless welding wire etc) ~AUD100
The gears I was referring to are in the case that is between the swing motor and the ring gear, so it could be done without separating the house from the track frame. it would be inside this unit here http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cat-Caterpi...491070?hash=item280a7a7bbe:g:OTMAAOSwT5tWJoIa This drives the ring gear that is alongside the swing bearing. There really isn't any way to visually inspect these gears, you would spend a couple of hours pulling it apart to see them :Banghead If you run the machine swing it from side to side, let off the swing so it stops fairly quickly, if it makes a lot of noise and clunking around I would run, and run fast. there is a couple of pictures in the thread below of mine. HeavyEquipmentForums Do you have a link online that we could see a picture of the machine your looking at? A picture is worth a thousand words after all.. Edit: the ebay add isn't mine, just using it for a picture reference.
Unfortunately the 215 has not arrived to the auction yard, so I have not seen it yet. It's supposed to be a 1990 LC, don't know how many hours. Does anyone know if that would be a "D" series? Here is a link for the Hyundai 130: https://www.rbauction.com/1998-HYUN...d=8843505&id=ci&auction=SACRAMENTO-CA-2016168 Here is the Link-Belt 2800: http://www.mylittlesalesman.com/link-belt-2800-cii-excavator-8471867 RedMcC, any pics of your project?
That would be a 215 D LC if it is a 1990, I beleive the last 215 was made in 92'.
This machine is at the same sale... wouldn't be too bad. https://www.rbauction.com/1979-CATERPILLAR-225?invId=8925715&id=ci&auction=SACRAMENTO-CA-2016168 Might be a little bigger than you want, but I'd bet it sells for less than the 215, unless the 215 is a total heap.
I saw that also, it was a late addition. They've just posted the full series of pics, looks to me like the u/c is showing some wear? That certainly would be a beast of a machine though, and it's got the all-important hydraulic thumb. If it went cheap enough it could be a good deal for low hour use; a guy could even buy something smaller down the road for more delicate work. I've always wanted a track loader with a hoe attachment, maybe that would be the way to go. I hope they get the 215 in soon.
Just looked through the pics of the undercarriage, looked like it had plenty of life left in it to me.
Movindirt, Well my eyes aren't that good anymore but on page twelve of the U/C section it looks to me like one of the bushings is cracked? Also I thought the rock guards are running a little close to the pads (worn bottom rollers?) But I could be wrong (I frequently am, haha) so I hope you will take a look at that and chime in again. I appreciate you helping me out with this.
Not sure about the bushing, can't really tell for sure if it is a crack or not. The rock guards on our 215 sit down pretty close to the tracks as well. I am by no means a expert either, just doesn't look too badly worn imo. It would be nice if one of the track experts on here chimed in...
Rollers are definitely used, sprockets look pretty good. Rails are definitely on the tail end, but should run awhile. Machine sure looks clean and well taken care of. I wouldn't have to try that hard to believe it had 12K hours. I'm sure it's possible it's 22K, but then again that might not be the original meter. In any case it sure looks nice for a almost 40 year old machine. Should have quite a few hours left in her, if she's really in as good a shape as she looks. On something that old, God only knows the entire history unless it's a one owner machine.
Hi there. My husband just bought a mechanical thumb at Ritchie Auction in Toronto, Canada for $2,100. He will be installing it himself. He plans to convert it to a hydraulic thumb down the road, maybe ... Depending on the cost and real need.
I don't have many photos of the installation. I did it 99% by myself, except aligning the pins when my wife provided a second set of eyes ("up / down - there!!!"). I got to say that these things weigh a lot when you have to move them by hand (this is on a 20T machine so the whole kit weighed around 600kgs (1200lbs). This is one of the base plate being tacked into place (note the pipe on the left that is providing the bucket spacing I was looking for): The thumb in action with few of the rocks I'm dealing with:
Looking good RedMcC; welding in a rugby jersey; I like it. Thanks for the pics.
Well the 215 finally showed up. Here is a link to the machine: https://www.rbauction.com/1990-CATERPILLAR-215D-LC?invId=8920106&id=ci&auction=SACRAMENTO-CA-2016168 Very high hours but the u/c looks good to my eyes. Looks like at least one of the boom cylinders needs repacking, maybe both? This is a late model 215, weighs in right at 44,000 or a little more with the thumb on it. I'm really kicking myself right now for letting this one get away from me. https://www.rbauction.com/1998-CASE-9020B?invId=8788357&id=ar&auction=SACRAMENTO-CA-2015289 So can anyone clue me in to the pros and cons of a long carriage machine, which this 215 is? I'm thinking it would be more stable on steep slopes, which I have plenty of. It's looking like the choice for me is between the 215 and the Hyundai 130 Robex. All things being equal I would prefer the Cat, but it's got over 14,000 hours on it vs. 4,700 for the Hyundai.
I've decided to start a new thread about working on slopes and what the advantages might be of a LC machine. Thank you all for you time.