Have a CAT D3B, CAT 416C extend a hoe and CAT 955L trackloader and I'm trying to figure out how to cut a 45 degree or so hill side. The soil is red clay and I tried my backhoe and it work somewhat but cannot reach high enough. Hill is about 30 feet high. Once the hillside is cut I need to cover it with rock to keep down on erosion. Can a D3B be tilted that far on the side without rolling over down the hill? Just the thought of it gives me the willies. This is all for my property not a job site. I could hire an excavator to get it done but have all this equipment and just trying to figure out how to do it.
Well I wanted to find you a video of it in action so you could see, but I can't seem to find what I want to show you, and my td15 isn't on a road building project so I can't make one either. So with that out of the way here are 3 ways to do it. 1. stake / flag out your road line. You want to mark above the road line by a blade width or so. Now, take your d-3 to the top, if you don't want to you don't have to start at the top, its just a lot easier. Fully angle your blade so that the short corner is downhill, tilt your blade slightly so that the long corner is digging in. Take short pushes, being sure to keep solid ground under the low side track. Now the angle of the blade is going to be pulling you into the hill as long as your pushing dirt, so remember to keep the blade full. Keep repeating until you have a blade width all the way to the bottom. Reason you want to start at the top, cause you can push 3x as much headed downhill as you can headed up. When im headed uphill I push only enough to sweep the leaves and sod off with whatever im using, once I turn around and start headed down the the dirt moving begins. 2. Mark road out, get backhoe to the top, again you don't have to but is a lot easier. Using the hoe just like an excavator, dig the dirt loose and dump it below the road. You want to stay digging at the one place until you have enough virgin ground to advance the backhoe on. Don't be super concerned with a perfect road bed, your going to grade it off with the d3. This is the slowest way to build the road, btw 3. Mark the road, get the 955 to the top, start pushing dirt over the edge, establish the downward angle you want the road to have, and establish the tilt of the road into the hillside by making a pile for the outside track to set on to get you started. Dig into where you want the road, dump dirt over edge, repeat. pay special attention! Do not get the trackloader on soft fill material Trackloaders grade by how they are setting, if your setting off level the road will be the same. Roadbuilding with trackloaders in general is more time consuming, creates a wider road, and is harder to do that the other two methods but doable just the same. With the trackloader you can however start at the bottom with greater success than the 2 other machines, and if you want you can carry the spoils to the bottom and do something else with them than just tossing it over the edge. To sum it up, a skilled operator can use any of the three. If you feel it is above your skill level by all means hire it done. Either by a professional operator or another contractor.
Yair . . . AllDodge . stumpjumper83 has explained the procedure for cutting road . . . but is that what you want to do? The wording of you post (to me) is a little unclear . . . as always pictures would help. Cheers.
Keep in mind a 45* slope is a 1:1. 100 %.
I think he's saying he wants to slope a bank, I'd use the d3 or the track loader to doze from top to bottom, I wouldn't try going crossways on that, one hiccup and you'd be on the side. Pushing down the hill you can generally stand a dozer on its nose without too much worry, other than remembering to put your foot on the dash to hold you in the seat! Pushing downhill like that will let you carry a whole lot of material to bring it out at the bottom. I'd probably use the 955 to place the rock on the slope, working from the bottom or the top, whichever is easier, and maybe touch it up with the dozer after.
Sorry for not being clear, but yes I want to slop the bank. Then I'll need to add rock on top of if so to stop erosion. One of my issues is my neighbor on top will not allow me up there. very long story. There is a water line showing in the pic and they will be moving it lower this week. Then I'll remove the rest of the dirt.
Yair . . . AllDodge . Thanks for pictures . . . you have some handy looking gear there! Now to your slope problem. It looks a little awkward. How far back from the top of the bank is your property line? Without removing trees you a limited in what you can do. If your issue is to "tidy up" and prevent the slope from washing, to me (from half a world away) it looks as though one option may be to haul in some fill or perhaps take a cut across the flat area and push the won dirt in to the toe of the bank to reduce the slope . . . if slope erosion is a potential problem digging/disturbing stable areas of a bank is usually a poor approach. Once the bank is sloped (to my eyes) applying rock to such an area would be an unconventional and extreme. Given the lush appearance of your vegetation finishing with topsoil and then some grass and intensive planting of shrubs and so on would be more cost effective. Just some initial thoughts Be assured though that the equipment you have is more than adequate to do the job. With all your machines you would work up and down the slope. If you do fill the toe put it in in lifts and track or wheel roll . . . the relatively narrow tracks on the trackloader would be ideal. All the best with it and keep us posted. Cheers.
I'm currently about 2 to 4 feet from my property line. The short section of fence at the top is the line. The slop right now is about 30 degrees at the tallest point, and about 45 at the low. If I can stay away about a foot from the line and slop it to the bottom, this I hope would work. Excavators make it look so easy, just angle the slop so easy with their long reach. So your saying take the trackloader and walk it to the top trying to fill at an angle as I go? On the steep section, I might need to add fill so I can get to the top and then drag it back? With it being red clay soil it has a hard time growing about anything other then weeds. This is why I was thinking about rock, but rock is more expensive then dirt.
seed it with morning glory or another climbing flowering vine
We have some of that stuff and can see what it does, Still wonder if sloping the ground and how to do it
Hello AllDodge, If it were me, i would use the D3b and drive it up and drag the blade down, starting on the high spots, also it looks like you can push some to the hill from the parking area if you need more dirt. Have you ever noticed cat grass, we used to call it buffalo grass when i was a kid, it grows on a lot of hills, native grass. sam.
Thanks the D3 will have better traction and dragging the blade should provide a even surface. Never heard of cat or buffalo grass but will look into it
Yair . . . AllDodge . With these sort of jobs it is always best to stay as far from the property line as practical. You need material to work with and you could be surprised how much fill you may need to establish the slope . . . bang in some pegs and run a string line to get some idea. Far better to do it now with dirt than to have the bank slump and being forced to install a retaining wall. Cheers.
Looking at the pictures I was thinking either plant native species or back drag with the dozer. Another option, and it might only appeal to someone who is a not very nice person like me, would be to do nothing. You don't get along with the neighbor, but as the situation stands, you're giving him a cliff, he's giving you top soil and flat ground. You win. Unless he can sue you.
Sounds like you don't get along with the neighbor? If not.... Leave it be. Except for planting...one tiny lonesome Kudzu plant. Take care of that hill in no time
LOL Now that is bad. We have the ornamental bitter sweet around here and have to work every year to keep it at bay. Not as bad as Kudzu though. Going to try the back dragging to get a slope smooth and try to stay away above a foot or two from the line. Going to plant some vines but also plan to use some shot rock. Whenit rains the wash coming off the hill side could be an issue. Appreciate all the ideas
Alldodge if you need some kudzu starter kits, I can overnight them to ya'. :tong
You are all heart CM. Alldodge Can you push up some material from the bottom to flatten the slope out some instead of cutting it all? Then you could make it a little flatter and not get too close to the PL.
Yes, once they move the water line, all the soil there to the side can be used. Trying to use as little as possiable of the soil because I have a large area to fill in. I'll probably push some in then try to back drag it smooth. Still getting the hang of how the dozer works along with the sloppy pins of the machine. I'll get it one way or another and will post some pics later of how it turned out.
Original Landscape This is what I started with years ago
No no and no I can't believe in this day and age people are still scared to batter off with a dozer. Fact a dozer will slide b4 it will roll I have proven this time and time again. Fact a dozer will Hang up on a little more than 1 in 1. I have pictures of me some where crawling across a 50 foot batter at 1 in 1 it's as scary as he'll the first 50 or so times u do it but u get used to it. Now because u don't have much room u mat have to push a bit up the batter so u have something to sit ur tracks on then u can get at one end hang on the batter and push from 1 end to the outher end if u can start at the top and work ur way down. Don't try and work the full width of the blade half or less is good. Keep chasing the dirt all the way to the bottom. The rill u will b chasing will also help to keep u up there. If your nerves won't let u do that u can start at the bottom and work up the batter at an angel aim to start at 1 edge at the bottom and finish at the half way point at the top if u do it this way if u get a fright turn up the hill thus throwing the weight back on ur tracks and simply March up the batter until u can stop and back down or go round and have a outher go. I can hear the howling and hoots now of people saying ime mad and I don't know wat ime on about but it's true I've proved it. Now if u master the second way I described the next step is when u get to the top in the middle u can turn and chase the dirt all the way to the outher end if u get a fright on the way down turn down hill and march to the bottom and have a outher go. Some things to remember make sure u have enough dirt.if u aren't cutting down it can b very hard and dangerousness. U can fill a batter at 1.5 to 1 but I don't recommend it. I've gotten a bit game from time to time filling across that is and had to back down the batter with mu blade at full tilte and jammed down to stop her from rolling. Another tip is don't try and make ur batter in one go rough it in and make something u can walk on first then start trimming it down. If u fall of or if u get so far and u run out of dirt don't b afraid to back of push a couple of blade fulls where u need it run over it a few times get back up and cut again. A spirit level and a tape messure is a god way to Check ur batter as we'll paint a peg if required. Ps don't kill yourself if ur not cumfterbel doing it than don't there are outher ways sing out if u need any more help. It's a pity ur so far away or I would come and do a day 4 u 4 free. Regards cameron.
Thanks Cam, appreciate the info but some of it I don't understand the terminology. I take it 1 and 1 is a 45 degree slop angle. Is batter the angle of the fill dirt or angle of the hill or slope? So if the dozer is sideways I would put the angle of the blade more on the up hill side then the down, correct? BTW, they started lowering the water line and I have move a bunch of dirt.
Sure glad I got a post, I forgot all about pics when I climbed down off the backhoe/ Here is what I've done today after the line was lowered. The top section was done by a trackhoe, but I do want to angle it a bit more
Hey Dodge sorry mate I should have explained better. I'll have another go. First of all I'll try and explain what a batter is, think of a sound barrier or a dam wall the sloped surface is called a batter. The bottom is called the toe and the top is called the heal. The process is to build proud and cut down this especially true in the corner the corner will take twice as much dirt as u think it will this is called rounding it out if done properly u will b abel to drive right around it with the dozer and leave a perfect finish. ( think of a berm ). Ok next i will try and explain batter grade ( the steepness of the slope ). Think of a right angel 1 in 1 means one meter out and one meter down eg use a spirit level and mark it at one meter out from the end then use a tape measure and measure down 1 meter ( tip remember to pick if ur going to measure to the top or bottom of the spirit level and use the same method every time ) So when the spirit level is level ( in bubble ) and the tape is lined up with the mark at one meter and the tape is reading one meter that right angel is is 1 in one. One meter out and one meter down. To make a 2 in 1 batter u go 2 meter out and 1 meter down but to make it easier to grade check u reduce the math and measure it 1 meter out and 500 down and so on. Now when u have a dozer on the slope side ways u want to keep the down side of the blade down on a real steep batter u won't b working much more than the tip this helps to keep u upright and helps to chse the rill down the slope ( keep the down Side down all the way). Oh I forgot to mention when a batter is finished that measurement will b the same any where on the the batter. Google batter boards cat used to make them but u don't need it but if u google it it might help u. If where me I would get up on the bench and push down the face roll the bade and cut from the corner out and down shove the dirt u make up the corner and put a bit up the outher wall and repeat the process.
I promise u it will take a lot more than a 45 to tip a dozer.( tip check the play in the eq bar u don't want to have a pin snap on a batter )
Oh don't forget to scarify to help get the dirt to marry it up and help it stay put. Also I would try and leave a small rill top and bottom to help slow the water down. As ime half a world away I can't recommend what to seed it with at the end ask some one in the area I hope that helps Regards Cameron
Thanks Cameron, appreciate the clarification. Tried using the dozer today and there just is not enough power there to do much of anything except smoothing. Guess that's why most use them for finishing work. Backhoe can do it but I have to use the backhoe to break it loose then use the loader to move it. So one more check over the old 955L, she fires right up. The next 5 hours running and she never stopped even with tracks so wore they are at the limits. Here is about 2 hours in. Here is at lunch time and I stopped for the day. From these angles it doesn't look like I moved much dirt but there has been a bunch Main bad point with the 955 is the noise and one weak brake. Leg gets sore but I have ear muffs so the sound level is ok. Moves a lot a dirt and with a 3 speed shuttle shift it moves right along
Getting better at using the dozer but still having some issues. Tried putting it on the side and it did do it but the thing just wants to slide sideways. This red clay is some hard stuff. grousers barely dig in. Wound up backing up the hill side then working down. Also climbed straight up and back drag down. It's coming together but this old guy is really felling it in my knees. The good part is when I climb into the backhoe to move the dirt from the other side of the lot, A/C feels good.
Hey u guys arguing about batter work have a read of this thread
There was no link
What's a link
Your previous post was Which lead me to think in the comment of "have you read this thread" that there was a link to another thread
Yea mate if knew how I would put a link on steep slopes and direct people this way but I don't know how
there's "steep slopes on dozers", unless Cam wanted to link THIS thread to THAT one. Dodge, if you don't have this project seeded yet I'll throw my two cents in. If you're not going with Kudzu, my first choice would be a few scoops of quack grass sod, spread it out, give it a little 10-10-10, track it in, water it a little, and watch it grow. Or if you want something else, I'd start with a cover crop on a soil like that, oats, rye, buckwheat etc. With oats or rye at least, you can seed that as soon as the ground is dry enough to drive on. Same thing, broadcast the seed, give it some fertilizer, and track it in. They will grow whenever it gets warm enough. If you want to plant something else after the grain. kill it before it goes to seed, roundup, or the organics use a roller, you could do the same by tracking over it again. Then you have a nice mat of dead mulch that will hold the soil and shelter anything else you want to plant.
Yea Delmer if I knew how I would put a so called link in steep slopes and direct readers this way so I don't have to re write a whole heap of stuff
I put 31 fescue on it last fall and most of it came up, will see how it does in the spring, thanks much guys