My boss is now penniless and the company is no more. I've been on my own for over a year now. I saw it all coming about 21 months ago and started digging in for the long haul. I started up the farm last March and that kept me pretty busy all summer. I also picked up a couple small side jobs with my PC-50, one, a foundation, which was pretty big for such a small machine. I am still on that job but as a framer and electrician (pays to be diversified ). I met with the potential customer yesterday about running a trackless around the village sidewalks and met up with the developer that my old boss completely relied on. It's a small company but has access to a huge amount of money. They don't have a lot of work right now but he showed me set of plans for a three bungalow project about an hour and a half away. They want to start on it immediately. They used to prefer time and materials but now, all of a sudden, want bids. I think that between my old boss and the landscaper (trying to break into the excavation business) who replaced us, the developer has realized that an inexperienced bidder can short sell himself very easily. They want a bid from me ASAP. I don't have any experience at all with estimating jobs. I'm a truck driver and operator. I don't have a clue what the job is worth. I asked for a copy of the plans and was told "You don't need the plans...It's an easy job! Just give me a number for the excavation! I'll buy the materials!" So he's playing games with me. He wants me to botch the bid so he can fatten up his bottom line. I blew them off for today and told them I'd meet with them tomorrow afternoon. I haven't seen the lot or anything. I don't even know the section, block or address, let alone the topography or weather or not it's wooded etc. I'm over my head on this one...which is why they called on me. They know they can take advantage of me. I own my PC-50, my old bosses single axle Mack and 20 ton tag, my mason dump and 9 ton Beaver, my bosses 1000 Lb hammer (that was in lieu of my last paycheck) and all the small tools (lasers, transits, compactor etc.)I need to work. I'm in deep if I start playing ball with these guys! The one I talked with yesterday, I can go back about 10 years with. I don't think he's looking to totally screw me but he's a (ethnic/religious references deleted) :beatsme I think that if push came to shove, I'd be hung out to dry. Anyone who reads this has about 16 hours to save me from myself. I could really use some words of wisdom. P.s. Three crawl space foundations on the same lot. 22'X40' and 2' deep to be back filled for frost protection. Septic is 100' away. All three into the same system. That's all I know so far. Poulson01, knock it off with the ethnic /religious references. They may be a point of reference in how YOU see your potential customers, but they are inappropriate here. We've gone over this before. :cool2 .
just tell em you'll do anything for a slight phenomonal fee
This has a.....shall we say...odor to it? You suspect they are trying to sucker you, they give you a bare, bare minimum of information, and you're talking about a job 1.5 hours away. If it were me, I would say thanks but no thanks, too far from home, not enough information, no plans, and I don't like what you are asking of me. AND STICK TO IT!! More than once I've seen guys get bit when they think they are losing out on a job, and end up doing it just to lose money. Losing money is easy, but you can stay home and drink cold ones and do it a lot easier than spending it on someone else's job!!
You don't have to do it on their terms if you are not comfortable with that. What you can do is tell them that you are interested in doing the work but only on an hourly basis. I don't know what a fair hourly rate is for your machine(s), but you likely know. And add in transportation and mileage costs if you want. If they know and like your work, that should satisfy them. You should also discuss who is liable for anything unforseen, including accidents or injuries. And I would ask them to agree to promptly pay (same day if possible) on completion of your work. If they expect you to work for nothing or lose money on the job, you're better off without the work. If you trust them, a verbal agreement may by OK. But by the sounds of it, you need to draw up at least a short contract and have them sign it.
I can't tell you what to do there, but I can tel you what I'd do in the same situation. When I meet with them tomorrow, I would tell them it will cost you $XX.XX per hour. When they tell me that's not the number they want, I would simply say I need all of the information to make an educated decision on what it will cost. If they still won't give me the information I need, I would simply add $100,000 to the rough number I think I may be able to do the job for. Then, when they ask if I'm out of my mind, I would simply reply, no, I'm not, but I have to make sure I can afford to get into an unknown situation and not go under. Then I would ask if they could give me a quote on developing a piece of land for me and tell them that I need it right away, but they can't have any of the details. At that point I would tell them I am not interested in bidding on this job, but thanks for the offer. If they ever have a job they would like done, but are willing to share the details, give me a call. Now, that's what I would do, but I'm not you, so I can't say what you should do in that situation. Brian
Give him a price of what YOU need to make money that is the name of the game. An estimate is not a cotract. A guy asked me via letter for a price for....... A: price to move dozer to property B: price per hour once I got the dozer there. I told him A: anywhere from $100-$5000, B: anywhere from $90-$200 per hour. Never told me how big a dozer he wanted. I didnt care if I got the job but I answered his question
It's like my classic question I always get. " how much is it to dig a pond"... Well I'll dig it as deep as your pockets.
Where you are from, it may not be a contract, but here in Canada it is. An estimate, either verbal or written is a legally binding contract that may not be exceeded by more than 10% without renegotiation satisfactory to both parties. You can ask a guy I used to work for about that. He screwed up an estimate he gave to someone, and the courts eventually ruled that he could deviate from the verbal estimate by no more than 10% as there were no extenuating circumstances. He lost his shirt on that one. Brian
Thanks for the replies fellas. I see how the big guys do it here. They come in with a low bid. They know exactly what meets the criteria of the phases of the job. They bill for, and do exactly that, and not a thing more. I saw a building once, that had no slab in the basement. The mason hadn't poured it and the other contractors wouldn't wait. They only cared about completing their phase. EVERYTHING over the bare minimum requirements is an "extra". I'm going to call a guy I know who sold all his stuff a few months ago. He is pretty good at getting out of the business when times are tough and then back in when the tide changes. I'll pick his brain on bidding. Is there a "formula" to get me started?
Hows is he going to help you anymore than what you already got? There is no formula for unknowns and the whole situation seems unknown to me. Good luck!!
My advice was and is to do it by the hour. Please refer to my last post. If you insist on bidding, then you absolutely have to go and look at the work and the specifications. Then, based on your past experience, calculate how many hours or days it will take and multiply that by your hourly rates. Then add in your liability insurance costs, travelling time, equipment moving costs, meals, lodging, and any other expenses. Then add 25% for unforseen events and expenses. I've worked both ways, by the hour or by the job. But I prefer to work by the hour plus expenses.
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with the info you have, you have a better chance of making money with the lotto numbers , no point in being a busy poor pauper.:Banghead:Banghead
this thread reminds me of a lot of previous threads...someone will ask..."how much to do this/that"? i, in south dakota, have no clue of your soil conditions, underground obstructions, permitting, licensing, labor costs, man, the list is endless. that's why i was a smart arse earlier and said "just tell them you'll do anything for a slight (phenomenal) fee. only one answer to your question...corner the guy, ask explicitly what is expected. guesstimate your time/material...have at it. i see a lot of posts here telling you to bid it by the hour. unless it's a repair job with a lot of unknowns...i refuse to do that, i can 99 out of a 100 times guarantee i can beat end dollars doing them by the job vs. what the market will bring locally per hr. wise
Yeah I know. I meant is there a way to ball park it just on what type of job it is and the total yardage. I knew the answer before I asked it. I was just making sure really. Thanks though. Yeah I hear you and you're right about hourly rates. I've seen the take-offs from other jobs and I know that if I broke it down by the hour, it'd be way high. I should try to look at an old job and try to see how the bid was calculated. Thanks for the input.
My brother is a engineer,my good friend is engineer,my brother in-law used to be a boro manager,and several other people I know work in the "bid process". I have told them all that THEY NEED TO HAVE MANDITORY PRE-BID MEETINGS. This way EVERYONE is on the same page and there is know grey area.As a professional I would not waste time giving him a price with him not willing to show an ounce of professionalism himself. Heck even if you just sit down with him and write some specs down and you both sign it would be a start.
I'll be happy if I never have to edit similar content out of your posts in the future, so the ball is really in your court there. It's not as if we (meaning you and I), have not discussed the inappropriateness of employing ethnic/religious sterotypes in things you post here, now is it? Final warning.
God points everyone (except :cool2) and I've decided to pass on the job. 1. It's an hour and a half away....up Wurtsborough Mountain...A long pull! 2. There's already 6" of snow there. 3. Gas prices are low now but what about in Jan? 4. The days are short and, once it gets cold, everything I dig will have to be covered up with hay....and then uncovered in the morning. Between that and the snow and sub zero temps, I'd be actually "working" only 3-4 hours a day. 5. Christmas and Hanu :ban.... (DOH! Forgot about the religious references!!!) HOLIDAYS I MEANT!!! are coming so that's two weeks gone. 6. My machine would pretty much be stuck there all winter. 7. Rt 17 is a gauntlet of state troopers and DOT. Yadayadayada...right? So I'd be killing myself fighting all these factors. I'd rather plow some snow and hibernate until March. I have 2 septics and a water feature for spring. I'm pro'lly going to try to do a little trucking then too. I called.... the guy .....today and asked if he would show me the job. He was supposed to call back after checking the schedule. I called again at three...voice mail. Again at 4:00....voice mail. So I'm being toyed with right? Maybe he wants to get numbers from me to beat up on someone elses bid.:beatsme In any case, I can wait for spring. Thanks again.:drinkup P.S. How do I learn to bid? Is there a book that doesn't cost $250?
One more thing...for the record. I have NEVER "employed ethnic/religious sterotypes". If you guys read it that way then I'm sorry but you're reading something that isn't there.
Just because you insist you don't recognize it as such doesn't mean other people don't recognize it. And since you've decide to pass on the job, I guess there's no point in continuing this discussion.